Transcript
I'm Alice. And I'm Brett. And this is the prosecutor's legal case. Hello everybody and welcome back to this episode of The Prosecutor's Legal Briefs. I'm Brett. I know you're used to hearing Alice first, and Alice is still not with us today, but you are fortunate because I am not alone. I am joined with Scott Hoover, veteran reporter, and the author of the hot new true crime book, Beverly Hills Noir: Crime, Sin and Scandal in 90210. Scott, welcome to the show. Thanks, Brett. I'm really happy to be here. Well, I'm really excited about this because I gotta tell you my experience with Beverly Hills is limited to the nineties television show. And I didn't realize that it seems like maybe that show was a little bit more accurate than I thought. So That's really more true to life than The Beverly Hillbillies. Yeah. And so I gotta ask, how did you stumble upon the fact that Beverly Hills is apparently a place where you're gonna find everything from murder suicides to superstars, shoplifters, and rat pack, barroom rumbles, and everything in between? Yeah. I 30 years ago this year, I moved to Los Angeles. And within a a few days of being here, I actually saw the OJ Simpson Bronco chase with my own two eyes. And that sort of set the stage for where my career was gonna go in the next, couple of years. And I got a job at a newspaper in Beverly Hills that had been around and was sort of the paper of record, the Beverly Hills career, and juggled a bunch of different beats, one of which was police and crime. And as I got a better rapport with the police department, I started learning about some of the past stories that were exceptional along with the things that I was covering at the time. And crime in Beverly Hills always seems to have, like, an unusual flare to it. Not every story, but there's always some juicy, you know, story every few months that's got some only in Beverly Hills kinda twist. So as I looked into the history, I just kept coming up with story after story after story. And I kind of you know, long after I had left the newspaper and eventually segued into entertainment journalism, I just kinda kept researching the stories that interested me the most. And finally, during the pandemic, I found myself, like all of us, with time on my hands. And it was one of the my cast is here. Yeah. And I was able to, like, you know, put together a book proposal and shop it around, get an agent, get a publisher, and then finally put these stories, you know, a selection of them. I've got dozens and dozens and dozens of them, but this was sort of my opening salvo of Yeah. Unusual Beverly Hills crime stories. I I gotta tell you, I was looking through the book, and I flipped back to the front to see whether or not there was a volume 1 in the beginning because there was so much. It just as I said, I didn't realize this is such a fertile ground for stories. Room, you know, real estate to cover something like the Menendez brothers. That's just it's a book in and of itself. Or Bugsy Siegel being killed there. You know, those are those have been done and not as fresh as some of the stories in here, but, also, like, they're just there's so much to them. There's so many twists and turns to every story that happens in the true crime realm in Beverly Hills. So these were my favorites. I actually overwrote, and I have, like, essentially a second book's worth of stories ready to go. So if people like it, you know, make sure to tell my publisher. But yeah. Yeah. It was it was really fun to try to figure out which stories I wanted to include here because I wanted to everything needed to have have the crime happen in Beverly Hills itself, like, in the city limits of Beverly Hills. And then I wanted something, you know, something representative from just about every decade, and I wanted a bunch of different kinds of crimes. I didn't wanna do murder, murder, murder, murder. Right. I wanted to shake it up and and include some stories that might ring a bell if you've if you sort of know know local legend or something like Winona Ryder that I'm sure you've heard of, but do you know all the details? And then stuff like the Frank Sinatra Dean Martin story that nobody remembers anymore unless you were there when it happened. And then things that only I knew because I covered them at the time or stories that have just kinda faded into obscurity. So I thought that was gonna be a good mix to kinda show this really rich true crime history that Beverly Hills has. I do like that because too often true crime is just about the murders, but there's some really interesting stories where no one's killed. And I think your book really epitomizes that. So you've been doing true crime since before it was cool. You were doing it I mean, I guess it's always been cool. But you were doing it as a journalist before, you know, the 24 hour news cycle and podcast and everything else. It was just kicking off with the I think the Menendez really Menendez case really started that big pop cultural slow role into this true crime fetish that we all seem to have now. Yeah. And did you cover yourself any of the cases that you talk about in the book? Yeah. The second to the last chapter in the book is a collection of stories that I covered myself, mostly from the late nineties and early 2000. And I linked them through the 4 stories that I tell in there. There's a couple tangents I go on, but the 4 main stories I tell are all sort of people pretending to be something that they aren't. Great acting ability is not limited to professional actors in Beverly Hills, and these were, you know, con artists or people using actual literal masquerade type, you know, devices that pull these stories off. So those those four stories were from my own experience, and then I did cover the story of the final chapter, which is about the Winona Ryder shoplifting trial. And I was in in the courtroom pretty much every day of that trial and was lucky that I found all my original notes while I was writing the chapter. So I had, like, some really vivid recollections to kind of stir my memories of that, which was an interesting time. That's the last chapter in the book. But since you brought it up, that is one that fascinated me just because I remember it. I think a lot of people remember it. And Winona Ryder was sort of the it girl. She's on top of the world. She's everybody knows who she is. And all of a sudden, she gets busted for shoplifting. So what based on your sort of coverage, do you have any insight as to what exactly was going on there? Yeah. It felt so out of the blue when it happened. And so why? You know? And everybody's assumption at the time was maybe she got a kick out of doing it. You know? It was like a thrill to get away with it because certainly she did. While she stole 1,000 of dollars worth of merchandise, it was nothing she couldn't have afforded. And she spent plenty during that that shoplifting spree legitimately, like, to kind of cover what she was stealing. So it was really like, why? And so at the as you look into her background, you start to understand it a little bit more. She came from a very countercultural family, like, from the Bay Area. Her her father was a rare book dealer. Her mother was a was a teacher and an artist and filmmaker, and they were friends with, you know, Allen Ginsberg, and and her godfather is Timothy Leary. So she was raised with healthy disrespect for authority. Right? But then at the time this happened, although she was as hot as she'd ever been in her career, she'd been nominated for 2 Academy Awards. She was having a bit of, like, imposter syndrome and having a tough time coping with believing she deserved the level of fame and success that she had, and then she'd had some romantic failures on top of that. And so, emotionally, she was in kind of a, you know, rough place. And then she injured herself while she was making the movie, mister Deeds, with Adam Sandler, and that hurting her elbow led to a prescription pain pill addiction that got to a degree that she was, you know, taking far more than she should have been. Shopping doctors and that sort of thing to get extra medication, which was not a thing we really knew about that much back then. Now certainly, we're all familiar with that kind of situation happening to people in our own lives, but that's where she was. And I think that that was a perfect storm for her to do something as sort of dangerous and sort of foolish for her own reputation to steal. I think the thing I still don't quite understand is why she fought it in court because that didn't do her any favors. She could have just done a plea deal. The yes. The DAs wanted a, you know, wanted a win in the wake of celebrity cases like OJ Simpson. They wanted to be able to say, you know, you can't buy your way out of trouble, but she could have done it a lot more quietly. And I think that the trial really exposed things like the drug addiction that she would rather have not. So I never really quite understood why there was such a attempt, especially with a kind of feeble defense in multiple defenses that didn't add up together, why she did that. But it was certainly fascinating to see her come to court in these amazing designer clothes, many labels that she had actually stolen from Saks Fifth Avenue, and then then turn around and create a relationship with some of the designers like Marc Jacobs, who she's now done, you know, fashion campaigns for for 20 years after she stole one of his hair headbands from Saks. So just a fascinating thing. And then weird weird little sidebars, like, a member of the jury was the head of Sony Pictures who was taking her loss on several movies, but still got placed on the jury. So it was it was a while you know, and that was kind of the the plateau of the celebrity crime era that kind of wrapped up with the Lindsay Lohan's and the Britney Spears of the world. So it was the beginning of kind of a bad girl era in celebrity true crime. You know, that case is interesting, and you just sort of put your finger on it. I feel like you must you must have had to have stolen a lot of stuff for those people to want to press charges against Winona Ryder at that time. You would think they would almost just sort of look the other way. But at some point, I guess, it just became so problematic they couldn't do that. I think it was there are multiple factors in that. I you know, it was brought up in court, but never fully explored that she had been caught and let off more than once in the past, both in Beverly Hills and in New York City. And so what she did have a history, and she but she hadn't been prosecuted before. And then I think it was probably her attorney, Mark Geragos, one of the, you know, more renowned celebrity defense attorneys, who might have stirred the pot a little bit by trying to turn the blame on the Saks Fifth Avenue and say that they wanted a high profile celebrity bust right before the holidays to warn people not to shoplift. And I'm like, that's the last thing Saks Fifth Avenue needed was that kind of publicity. So I don't know if I would buy that from the jump. But, yeah, it was it became a kind of a a war where Sachs was like, we're not dropping the charges. Beverly Hills police is pretty diligent because they're under every microscope simply by being Beverly Hills police for, you know, people looking for them to make mistakes or to, you know, show some kind of bias or favoritism. So they have to be pretty upright, so they had to follow through. And, yeah, it was it was something else. And at the end of the day, Sachs was so tired of the publicity that came out of it all that when she was detained at the store, she said that she was told by a director to shoplift in preparation for a role. And she dropped a couple of of movies, one of which was shop girl, which was based on Steve Martin's novella. And when that movie actually did get made, which has no shoplifting in it, by the way, they lobbied to be the setting for the movie, where in the book, it was Neiman Marcus, their big rival. And they successfully became the location that Shopgirl was set in, and Saks Fifth Avenue, Beverly Hills never looked better than it does in that movie. That's hilarious. So I I kinda wanna back up for a moment because we've been talking about Beverly Hills as if everybody knows what it is. And I think most people probably have about as much familiarity with it as I do. They they saw it on television in the nineties. They've heard of it and they sort of know about the general reputation of it. But what is Beverly Hills? That may sound like a strange question, but what exactly is it? No. It's it's a good question because there's there's very specific answers to it. You know, that why Beverly Hills has this distinction that it's had for basically the better part of a century and and and a half. Like, it's a no more than 5 square mile territory. It's its own city kind of right at the center of Los Angeles, which is a big sprawling geographic area, but it's right at the the hole in the donut of of LA. And it was you know, it it spent many years as a Spanish ranchero in the old days. And at at the beginning of 20th century, some landowners purchased it hoping to find oil underneath the ground, and that didn't work out for them. So they're like, what can we do with all this land we own? Beverly Hills was sort of situated in this beautiful canyon area, but halfway between downtown, which was the hub of LA at the time, and the Pacific Ocean, like Santa Monica. And so they decided to build a luxury resort so people who are traveling to the beach from downtown would have an overnight place to stay, and they were usually people with money. And perhaps they would fall in love with the area because it was so picturesque, and they did. And it became immediately like a a wealthy enclave in LA. Just a few years after that, the stars and the movie moguls in Hollywood, the area that is known as Hollywood, were getting fed up that it was becoming so synonymous with scandal and sinful behavior that they wanted to be more upper crusty. And people like Douglas Fairbanks and Charlie Chaplin moved to Beverly Hills to be having more privacy, to be more remote, to be more out of the way of prying eyes. So whatever scandal they did wanna have, they could do it very quietly. And the the movie moguls followed suit, and then captains of industry of all kinds of, you know, big companies and, you know, politicians and regions from other nations. Like, they all started to put down roots in Beverly Hills very early, and it stayed that way. And it became, you know, synonymous with the celebrity hometown. Will Rogers, who was a famous humorist in his day, popularized it across the country by using it as the date line in his newspaper columns, like, in talking about his Beverly Hills neighbors. Like, very folksy, but they were all rich and famous people. And then it perpetuated with things like the Beverly Hillbillies and Beverly Hills Cop. And, you know, Rodeo Drive took off in the early seventies as a really a global capital of fashion and designer labels and really, really expensive ridiculous toys, and then the plastic surgery and to see followed suit. So it has been right at the heart of Hollywood throughout all of this, and it has stayed pretty much the same all these years. And the only thing that's different when I came to Beverly Hills, you did still see, and I write about it in the book, like, in everyday situations, you would see a lot of celebrities. You know, I saw Jack Lemmon at city council complaining about something his neighbor wanted to do. I saw Valerie Harper at the school board, you know, because her kid was going to the public school there, and different celebrities would call me on the phone to weigh in on, like, local issues. And that you go out to any restaurant. You know, there are certain restaurants you could know you were gonna go out to see Dean Martin having dinner. And that small town where you could see the celebrities just going about their business, that has sort of gradually faded. You can still spot them, but they don't you don't see them just wandering around Rodeo Drive like you used to, unless they want the attention, which sometimes they do. But the the advent of the cell phone and TMZ and all of that has kinda put a damper on how public the celebrities are when they're out and about in Beverly Hills as opposed to, like, 30 years ago when I got there. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game, shifting a little money here, a little money there, and hoping it all works out? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you wanna pay for car insurance, and they'll help find you options within your budget. Try it today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, pricing coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. I always did wonder if sort of it becoming a a tourist destination. Now when I went to Los Angeles for the first time, we went to Beverly Hills and like, you know, drove down through the palm trees and everything, which I imagine everybody does. And I always wondered if that would actually turn off those people that they would sort of go find a different enclave to move to and if Beverly Hills would kind of fall out of style, but it seems like maybe it's gotten a little bit more they've gone underground a little bit more, but it still is an elite place to live. Yeah. Plenty of celebrities still live there. Plenty of people in the industry at the top levels live there. Places like Bel Air and Holmby Hills have sort of eclipsed you know, they're like, if you're even richer than the usual Beverly Hills resident, you go there. They don't have their own police force or city structure, though. They're just neighborhoods of LA. And then Malibu for the uber rich has become and the Pacific Palisades, that's become their sort of hangout. But Beverly Hills still has a lot of that, you know, star power and a lot of very, very wealthy residents still today. It's it's it's wild. Given how big LA is, you would think other spots would really come up. But even the ones I just mentioned are all very traditional. But the tourism thing has always been an interesting push pull. The city of Beverly Hills loves all the tourism dollars that pour in, but they have to keep a tight leash on how far they go in enabling tourists because the residents will push back and push back hard because sometimes they have as much money as the entire city does. So it's always been kind of a push pull. But at one point during the nineties, Beverly Hills was in Southern California. It was number 2 tourist attraction second to Disneyland and maybe the walk of fame in Hollywood. It was it was that popular. Some of the fun luster of the this of Rodeo Drive has gone away because a lot of the what I look. I laughingly would say mom and pop stores that were on Rodeo Drive. The boutiques specialized in the showmanship that made it famous, all basically sold their properties to big corporate designer labels that you can get in every other city. So now it's just sort of the novelty of walking down Rodeo Drive, but you're seeing the same brands that you can see just about anywhere these days. It's funny, the same problems that everywhere else has. Yeah. Beverly Hills sees as well. And I think that's reflected in your book. We were talking about when on a rider. I think one thing your book shows is it doesn't matter how famous you are or how much money you have, you still have the same sort of petty problems as anybody else and crimes as anybody else. It's just when it happens in Beverly Hills, it tends to be a little bit more exciting and extravagant. And I I don't wanna give the whole book away, but I did the introduction about Alfred Hitchc**k. Why don't you tell people that story? You need to hook them and bring them in. It's so it's such a fun story, and it's one that I honestly, like, tripped over doing research for the other stories. Like, I didn't I'd never heard of it before. And I've got half a dozen or more volumes about Alfred Hitchc**k here at home, and I'd never seen that story, but I found it in newspapers.com or wherever, like, doing my research. And it's so fun, and I don't want I I'll try not to do too be too spoilery about it. But, you know, Hitchc**k had a press luncheon at the Brown Derby in Beverly Hills, one of the many the very famous Brown Derby chain. The the more quiet upscale one was in Beverly Hills right at the corner of Rodeo Drive and Wilshire Boulevard before Rodeo Drive was what it is today. It was mostly restaurants back then. And he had this press launch in for the 2nd season of his his television show, Alfred Hitchc**k Presents. And in the middle of the luncheon, 2 Beverly Hills police officers walk in and tell Hitchc**k that he's under arrest. And everybody is aghast, like, what is happening? And they take him out and they throw him in the paddy wagon, and then they turn to all the guests and they say, yeah. You're coming to headquarters too. We are gonna need to talk to all of you. And they show up, and there's Hitchc**k getting fingerprinted. You know, the chief of police is there kinda, you know, talking down to him, and they look around, and all of a sudden, they see wanted posters with their own faces on it. And as it turned out, it wasn't quite what what it seemed at the time. Hitchc**k had a very, very keen sense of the practical joke. But the lesson in it is exactly what you said. Is this like when something happens in Beverly Hills, you're not expecting it. It's you're on top of the world. Even if you're just a reporter going to cover a press launch. And, like, your life's pretty good. My life's pretty good when I do stuff like that. And all of a sudden, here come the cops, and you're thinking, wait. What do they think I did? Or worse, what did they find out that I did actually do? And my kind of buzzword about this is, you know, about Beverly Hills is, like, when when you have it all, you have everything to lose. Right. And I think, you know, I feel like true crime lately, maybe it's reflecting society and people's just general mood, it's kinda really dark. It feels like all the true crime books that come out these days are very dark. They're very heavy subjects and but your book is a lot of fun. I mean, there's it's obvious it's about crime. You know, there's some murders in there, not all of them. But your book is a lot of fun. I think people are really gonna enjoy walking through it. And I'm not gonna call it a guilty pleasure, but if you like true crime, it's it's true crime that you can enjoy without feeling depressed when you close the book. Is that something that you you tried to do? Very much on purpose. I mean, there are, you know, there are some dark stories, you know, to tell. And in this book, probably the darkest is the hostage situation that took place on Rodeo Drive in the eighties. That's a pretty dark tale and and full of tension and drama. And and and the opening story, the first murder in Beverly Hills in 1929 is is a little dark, but there's something about the ostentatious nature of the setting. You know? Beverly Hills is the consistent character in character in every story, and everything's a little over the top and everything's, you know, a degree or 2 separation from Hollywood, somebody famous. Famous people are walking on, walking off. Some sometimes they're the culprit. Sometimes they're the victim. Sometimes they're a witness. It's just a weird and willy kinda landscape, and I love that. And I didn't wanna spend, you know, a ton of time in my own life researching these dark, depressing stories. I wanted to have fun with it. And so, like, something like the second chapter in the book is the story of Gerard Graham Dennis, the the cat burglar from the 19 forties, who is an extraordinary character. Like, if you saw the a movie about him, you wouldn't believe it, the stuff that the the guy gets away with because he's so good looking and charming, but also really smart when it comes to being a a professional thief. And his story is so wild. It took me years to, like, get it all together and find out what all happened to him. And that was so much fun. You're almost rooting for him by the end of it. You know? You're like, he's just so he's so good. You're like, yes. Get away from them one more time. And then with the celebrities, you know, like, I love I'm I'm a huge Rad Pack fan. I'm very much, you know, all about Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin. And so that story, like, I wanted to tell, it's it's a crazy story. It has some tension. It has some scary moments, but I also, like, wanted to pay tribute to that that friendship that they had and that sense of play and fun as an adult, and it just took a wrong turn one night, and everybody was chewing their fingernails worried about what the outcome was gonna be. But it ultimately turned out to be okay. Plus, there was a great mystery at the center of it that I didn't get solved until I was almost finished writing the book, so that was kind of fun. Yeah. I just liked I liked the diversity, and I felt like if you're talking about crime in Beverly Hills, it should be kind of fun to read about. I like how you named all the chapters after movies too. It was a subtle subtle little thing, but I I like that. Well, Scott, the book's great. I think people are gonna love it. I'm glad that we've had you on to talk about it. But I can't let you go without changing subjects ever so slightly if you will indulge me. So on our other podcast, The Prosecutors, we just recently covered another celebrity crime that is dark, the death of Natalie Wood. And I know you've done a lot in that area. So I just just have to ask you, what insights can you offer about that case? So the listeners are all very familiar with it, the circumstances, what happened. Well, not exactly what happened on the boat because that's the mystery. But what are what are your thoughts on that case? It's such a fascinating case because there is this big black hole of information right at the center of it. And I don't know if we're, you know, unless somebody finally is willing to talk. I don't know if we're ever gonna get the truth, you know, or a a version of the truth. So from my experience with researching the case, talking about the case on a podcast, like, I think that clearly something happened that Robert Wagner felt the need to cover up. I what was it that he had killed his wife? I'm not so convinced about that, but I feel that in the moment, he panicked at the very least and had his you know, had things kind of massaged so they didn't look quite as bad for him. And the captain of the yacht that was his employee has pretty much, you know, said that he was instructed and paid to do things a certain way because that's what his boss wanted him to do. Did he kill her? I'm not there yet, but he is also whether he realized it or not, has admitted to having kind of a a very jealous and violent streak in him. You know, in his own memoir, he when when Natalie was dating Warren Beatty, he described an incident in which he was essentially lying in wait outside Warren Beatty's house with a gun, and he didn't do anything. But that's a pretty huge admission to make when you've been scrutinized for the death of your wife for for many decades. And I'm like, you're not realizing that you're confessing this dark side of yourself that now people are gonna jump on? And still people didn't make a as big a deal of that as I thought when I read it. And I've met Robert Wagner. He's just a very, you know, gentlemanly person if you if you encounter him. And I know people that adore him. And his his stepdaughter did an entire film to try to wash this stuff away, but it still wasn't super effective. And the LAPD has the case still open. They haven't, you know, they haven't in the last few years, like, they made a big deal of maybe 5, 6 years ago about keeping it open. They haven't said that they've closed it or that they're dropping it. Like, not no new information, good or bad, has come out of it. So it's still this really perplexing thing. That's what I have on it. Yeah. It seems like like a lot of people, he has sort of a dark streak. And when we talk about Beverly Hills, we're talking about, you know, it's so glitzy, it's so glamorous, it's so perfect. But if you look deep, if you've spent enough time there, you're gonna find the dark side. And I kind of feel like it seems like he has that too. And I agree with you. One thing that we said in the case is whether you believe he murdered her or not, it is clear to me that she died because of something that happened on that boat. Now maybe it was they got in such a terrible fight that she got in that dinghy to get away and an accident happened. But I think he does blame himself for it because something led to that. And there's no question that everyone on the boat, it seems like to me, I mean, no question is too strong. I don't wanna get sued. But it seems like everybody on the boat initially at least lied about it. You know, they lied about, oh, just an ordinary night. Nothing happened. Well, that's not true. We know now there is this massive fight. So they were covering something up. And the and the massive, you know, alcohol consumption Right. When they were ashore in Catalina. And all that booze and the combination of a sort of already volatile relationship between Natalie and and RJ and then Christopher Walken's presence who you know, he was I don't I don't think anybody's gone as far as to say that they were having an affair with any sort of proof, but she was definitely had her head turned by Walken because he was such an admirer of hers and was encouraging her to, like, do bigger things in her career. You know? And that triangular friction and alcohol, and that can be a really volatile situation. So, you know, I'm surprised Walken hasn't finally just for once and for all come out and said, okay. Here is what happened. Just so that people would stop stop speculating, but he's a he's another very unusual character. So Yeah. That is true. Times and he is he is he is a very unusual character. Well, Scott, I've really enjoyed this. I said I would respect your time, so I don't wanna keep you here all night. But, you know, you're welcome to come on the show anytime and talk about this stuff. You're a natural storyteller and it comes through in the book, and I hope people will pick it up. I assume the book is available wherever one gets books. Pretty much everywhere. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, your local bookstores can get it for you if they don't have it in stock. And do you know when that's coming out? I just asked because it's a podcast. A lot of our listeners really like listening to their books. Oh, yeah. It'll be out on this December 31st. Okay. Awesome. Just in a few weeks, right after Christmas. So with the guide cards, you know? Yeah. There you go. Exactly. And the physical book, if you still like reading physical books or if you want to read it on Kindle, is available now. So stocking stuffers and Christmas gifts for everybody. Probably by the time you guys hear this, it'll be after Christmas. So for all those people you forgot to buy gifts for, you need to stock up on this book. Well, guys, you need to check it out. Beverly Hills Noir by Scott Hoover, Crime, Sin and Scandal in 90210. You can't get any better than that. Well, sir, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you'll join us some other time and thank you for taking the time to write the book. It is excellent. Okay, guys. If you read the book and you enjoy it, I hope you'll let us know. Those of you in the book club, I hope this is one y'all will pick up. I can't wait to hear what you think. Let us know. Prosecutorspodgmail.com. And we will see you guys on the gallery to discuss this. Well, that's all we have for today, but we will be back next week. But until then, I'm Brett and this is the Prosecutor's Legal Briefs. And obviously this isn't live. So, you know, if you say something you're like, man, I shouldn't said that we'll just stop, You know, cut that out and keep going. Does that make sense? Yeah. I'll try to be discreet. Is it Hoover? Yes. It is. Scott Hoover. Okay. Alright. Here we go. Is there an audiobook? The audiobook comes out December 31st. Are you reading it or someone else reading it? Somebody else. And I forgive me the actor. He's a big name in the audiobook Okay. World. And I got to I got a sample of actors to choose from, and he was by head and shoulders the best one. And I I'm sorry.
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