Makes Me Wonder (w/ Joe Gorga)

Transcript

Is fired. Welcome to the s**t show. Things are going to get weird, weird. It's your fave billion kilowatt hours. And you're listening to barely famous f**kers. Hey f**kers, it's kale. And we're here for another episode of Barely Famous, and I have my friend Emily on the podcast today. So if you guys don't already know her, her name is Emily. Hey, everybody. And this episode is very much long overdue. So we have a document that we put together with all of your questions that you guys had for her and questions that we came up with on our own. We need to pull up the document. The first question I have it right here. The first question was how we met. Oh, perfect. OK, so we met because I mean, he was Lincoln's kindergarten teacher, and I was really nervous about all the teachers in Delaware because Delaware specifically, to be honest, I didn't love Isaac's kindergarten teacher. And so I was afraid that they were all like that. Oh, what? Was there anything specific that you didn't want me to be like? I know I was just afraid of judgment. And I guess that goes for all teachers, not just kindergarten. Yeah. Like when I met Isaac, third grade teacher at Open House. Um, I almost s**t my pants open house because I was like, I. It just seemed like she knew she had all of our s**t together, just like it was very like matter of fact, very open and I was very intimidated. And then I became friends with her as well. So like, it ended up working out well. I never had my s**t together, to be honest, but I don't believe that the kids loved you and I love kids and Lincoln loved you. So and still does. Obviously, yes. But yeah, I was super nervous about just because I don't want people to look at the stuff I do online or like on the show and then use it against me in my personal life. Although, yeah, I will say that would probably be very hard, like for people to not take that into consideration, but also wanted them to meet like you specifically to meet me first before you made like a full conclusion. So for me? I had been watching the show since it aired, so I know that we were in Delaware. Yes, I knew you were in Delaware and I knew his name as soon as I saw it on my list. You knew it was Lincoln. Yes. But I did not want to be weird like I was. I was like, I don't want to meet her and be like, Weird. OK. So like, I just was trying to be very natural. But when we self when we first started texting. And you would text at the end, like you'd be like, All right, have a good night. And I wasn't done talking. Yeah, I definitely feel like once we got to know each other a little bit, I think we kind of connected pretty like organically because we've been through a lot of the same things. So it kind of was natural. It wasn't weird. I was kind of like, I thought we were friends before. We were friends like that because you were like, All right, have a good night or have a good weekend. Maybe like. Okay. Yeah. So and that seemed like it was literally not that long ago, but it really doesn't. And it's I mean, he's. Hmm. So I've been there through a lot. Now, it's so weird to think like that. Three years has gone by. It really has, but it feels like it feels like yesterday. But it also feels like a lifetime, which is so weird. And I don't know. I'm glad that we became close, and now our other kids are close because we both have so many boys and locks in our best. Two peas in a pod. Absolutely. And literally, when when Lux gets mad at now, I don't want to be cousins anymore. I'm like, Why? Well, he told me this, and I'm like, Lux, you can't pick and choose when they're your friends and when they're cousins. Like, That's not how this works. But then they're over it and they're over it. But sometimes they do a really good job playing together. They do know issues, so I love that for us. And a question that someone asks that I really thought was a good one was as close friend. Is it hard to read the hate like on social media and not get upset about it? Hmm. Last night was a prime example. Absolutely. And I picked Emily up at like 8:30 or nine o'clock at night because there was so much going on. Yeah. And I just it's actually very hard because I know that a lot of people on the social media sites, Instagram, for one, don't know you in real life and they only know what they read or see. Hmm. And like I said, I had been watching the show for so long, and I know that, you know, you've been painted out to be a certain way and knowing you as a real person is not the same as the version that was portrayed. So now that I see a lot of the things that happen through media and social media, it's crazy like to see how one sided it is and how they try just to get a headline. And it's the clickbait articles are crazy. Absolutely. But what gets me? It's not even so much like that part of it anymore, like now, like because that used to bother me a lot. Now it's more so like the friends who were or dies before, and then they become. The trolls, when we have a falling out, and I think that's what bothers me because I was cool enough to be your friend and you saw a different side of me, but then when we're not friends anymore, then you turn around and now you agree with everything, the troll said. Yeah, I I mean, I just don't know how old they are, how those people specifically decided to flip and not be your friend anymore. So it kind of makes me think that, like what were their actual intentions in the beginning because I've had people exit silently? Yeah. And I think for me, those are the types of friends that are. They were the real friends because you can exit silently. Absolutely. And everybody has friends that just kind of fall out of your life like, I feel like a girl apart. Yeah, that's saying like, you know, they're in your life for a season, a reason or whatever, whatever it is. Yeah. And I definitely think there are people that are friends for a season. I've had that myself, you know, when I started having kids in some of my friends and have kids, you kind of just naturally drift apart because you're doing things that you're not able to do when you're home with a child. Mm-Hmm. And things like that where you have new friends that have kids and you know, you relate to the same thing. So I think that's natural for friendships to kind of go in and out. Mm hmm. But so I agree that those people probably had genuine intentions and it just it just didn't work out for whatever. Yeah, OK, that makes sense to me. Friendships are hard enough in general, anyway. Absolutely. You know, not even considering like a TV aspect aspect or a public figure aspect. So I mean, it's the whole thing is weird. Yeah. So what one of the things that Lincoln has openly said to me is that teachers should get paid more. And I don't know if it's because he's heard me say it. And so it's kind of like in his mind, a little bit. But one day we were driving in the car and he said something along the lines of like teachers should make a million dollars. And I texted you because I was like, You know what? You're so f**king right. Like, I was so proud of him, and then I thought of you because you were a kindergarten teacher and I was like, So true. But we talk about teachers all the time on my podcast, on coffee combos and baby mamas, and so I'm glad that I have a teacher. You're a teacher. Yes. What is your biggest pet peeve as a teacher? Do you know? I don't know if I have a pet peeve, so I've been this is my 15th year teaching, that's so I don't think that I could ever deal with other people's kids and then come home and deal with my own kids. That is hard. That's absolutely one of the pieces that that is difficult. I started teaching when my oldest son was and a newborn. So, you know, I've grown as a mom and a teacher at the same time. And I taught kindergarten for, I think, roughly 13 years. And I no longer teach kindergarten, but that was definitely a challenge I had as kindergarten teacher. I loved teaching kindergarten, but I would come home and then have to be there for my own kids. And what I found was that I was getting home and I was too exhausted physically and mentally and emotionally to really be the best, the best to be that I could present for your own kids. Yeah, yeah. And then so my youngest two kids are 20 months apart now in Nova. And when I had them as young toddlers, that's where it really hit the peak for me. I was absolutely exhausted, which is also when COVID hit. Hmm. Yeah. Oh yeah, that was another. A whole other can of worms. Yeah. But as far as a pet peeve, I think just the people that don't understand that teaching is more than just a job. So it's not. The pet peeve has nothing to do with the kids. No, it's like more outsider's perspectives or what they. Yes. You know, a lot of people make comments like, Well, you get the summers off. And you know, that doesn't even make sense to me because if I know if I am saying this correctly, some teachers can spread their salary across the whole year, right? Or you get it during the school year and then you don't get payment in the summer because that right? I think that it's typical now for most people to spread their pay out so year. Our salary is based on a 10 month working pay, 10 months worth of work, but they split it into 12 months. OK, so technically, yes, we still receive paychecks in the summer, but we're not being paid for doing work in the summer. So if you do lesson plans, if you're getting prepared for a new school year, all of those things, you're not getting paid for those. We don't get paid anything hourly. Obviously, other than if we do like summer school or like if the school pays for after-school tutoring and things like that. But so when you leave school on a school day, so you do every state, you stay after hour sometimes. Yeah, and then you go home and do like lesson plans or, yeah, things like that. You're not getting paid for that. No, no. We're given our planning period each day, which is where we get paid to do that. And a lot of times that's definitely not enough time to get all that done. So teachers do a lot after hours. Yeah, they're not paid for or compensated for in any way. And I think most of us do it because we love what we do, right? So like that part is the I guess you're doing it for passion, not to pay. Exactly. And that's what I think kind of what I'm saying is that people don't understand that the passion that goes into teaching and there are so many times that I've encountered situations with students where I go home and can't stop thinking about them or worrying about them. And that, you know, that's obviously not something that people think about the emotional toll that it takes on you. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I can't even imagine like I, you know how sometimes you just come across someone that like holds a special place in your heart and you're like, nothing will ever like, they're not my kid, but they hold a special place. I can't imagine being a kindergarten teacher or even a teacher in general, because now you're at the high school, but you just and then you think about them all the time, or you wonder if they're OK or if they're you know what I mean? Are they getting enough food if it's a situation like that like I just cannot imagine? Yeah, but yeah, I guess I can see why that would be a pet peeve, because you're just not. People don't respect the profession and they think like. Yeah, I've had so many, especially when I was a kindergarten teacher, like, oh, that sounds like fun, you get to be with five year olds all day, yes, but I'm also in charge of teaching them how to read. I'm teaching them how to be a student. You know, there are so many other things than just thinking, Oh, we could use Play-Doh and paint all day. Like, there's so much more than that. I remember I'm not going to say who it was, but I had, and I knew I had an acquaintance years ago and she was like, I'm not teaching my kid the alphabet. That's for the teacher school. It's just like, OK, are you f**king for real right now? Like, I didn't say that to her, but I was just like. Yeah, there's I mean, like crickets, like insert crickets sound, because I was literally like a unit that didn't just come out of your mouth right now. Yeah. That's another thing about teaching kindergarten that people don't realize when you get a class full of students, some are reading or like, you know, their letters know how to write their name. And then you have some that have never picked up a pencil or crayon. And what do you do with that? It's very challenging, and you just, I don't know, do the best you can to get them all caught up where they need to be and then still try to push the kids that are higher to continue growing to their fullest potential. So I personally did a lot of senators, small groups, yeah, individual as much as I could. And you know, you kind of just have to look at it as getting each individual child. They're the best version of themselves, but you're only one person with a class of 20 25. Oh yeah. I can't imagine. Not either. This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. So it's no secret that I've been in therapy for over three years. This is something I regularly talk about. I preach about it. I am still learning every single day. But I do know speaking from experience that when you're at your best, you can do so much more. You can do so many great things, but obviously sometimes life can get you kind of bogged down and you might feel overwhelmed or you're not really showing up in the way that you know that you can. And that's why I recommend better help, because you know, when you work in the therapist, you can get closer to that best version of yourself. And this is so convenient. It's flexible, it's affordable and it's entirely online. So if you're like me and you don't want to kind of go sit in that uncomfortable waiting room, it's just so awkward when you walk there, walk in there and you're like twiddling their thumbs and there's other people there. You don't know what they're there for you when to mind your business, but like, you're just it's weird. So feel empowered. Be more prepared to kind of take in everything that life throws at you and get on better health. You can change therapists at any time if you need to. You just have to fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. And like I said, you can switch at any time for no additional charge if you're thinking of giving therapy a try. I highly recommend you better help if you want to live a more empowered life. Therapy can help get you there, but is it better.com/ barely today to get 10 percent off your first month? That's better. Help LP.com/ barely. What do you? OK, one of the questions we have on here is what you wish people understood about teaching or educations or education. Teachers are being asked to do more and more tasks when the plates already fall. How do you feel about that? That is 100 percent true. There are so many things. So many. Tasks and duties and new because, for example, if a student needs extra help or maybe needs an IEP or what is it called the five before, those are special. Education plans. Correct. You're not getting paid to do that extra work. No, no, absolutely not. And then if you have a situation of inclusion, you kind of have to tailor everything around those things or know around the kids that are being being included. Is that right or no? So I think it's more common than not to find inclusive situations, not when there are students in each class that have special education plans, IPS or five offers and. While you're working on teaching the whole class, you also kind of tailor to each of those students individual needs. So you're giving them services such as small group, extra time to complete assignments, maybe modified assignments. So yes, you're teaching the whole class and then also doing those things to meet those students needs. And it's not extra. It's just part of our job description. And I love working with special education, as you know, my new position. I said I no longer teach kindergarten. I teach at the high school. Yeah, I teach strictly special education, right? In a. NON-inclusive setting, so I teach in a separate setting only students with special education apps. So it's definitely a passion of mine, but it's definitely a lot. A lot of do the kids go to be in other classes too, or they're with you all day, so they're with me. The way it works specifically with the IEP is that it's called a C setting, so they are in my special education setting more than 60 percent of their day. OK, but there are opportunities for them to go be with other kids because I I think I said this on another podcast, but I or maybe it was just talking to Kristen. But when I was growing up, I didn't see a whole lot of inclusion. The elementary school that I went to, the special education class was completely separate. We never did anything with those kids. Now looking back, I would have loved to because I think it teaches, you know, kids, I don't have special needs how to interact with, you know, the other kids that have special needs. It kind of takes away the stigma. Yeah, yeah. And so when I ask my kids all the time about if they're not all the time, but I've asked my kids, do they have kids with special needs? Like, How do you treat them? Make sure that they're, you know, doing the right things. And, you know, I wish that they had more opportunities like that when we were growing up. Yeah, I feel like that is more new. It is compared to like when you and I were incorrect. Yeah, I remember being special education, being strictly a separate setting when I was in school or as far as I knew. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's definitely evolved over the years, and I'm it's amazing to see the interaction of typical developing students with students with special needs. The amount of compassion that they have from being exposed to these kids at such a young age, it's much more accepted and it's amazing. You told me before that some of the kids, a lot of the kids at the high school are really accepting of all kind of people. Yeah. Which really was surprising to me because I feel like when we were in school, at least when I was in high school as more so middle school, but also high school is very clicky and kind of not very nice. Yeah. Like, they weren't nice, but I feel like based on what you've told me, like kids now are way more accepting of so many things. Yeah, and I I agree that I think that it was that way when I was a kid too. In middle school and high school, it was very much like there was a stigma around it. They were, but I think it was because they were separated from us. You know, first of all, for me personally, I would see those students in like gym class and maybe lunch, but that was about it. So I think because of education involving and inclusion being so prevalent now, I think that that has encouraged students to be a lot more accepting. Yeah, which is amazing. Well, I love that because I ask I was like, I saw this girl come out of Isaac's Isaacs in the middle school, which is directly next to where Emily teaches. And there's this girl who she wears fairy ears like the elf ears and she wears like fairy costume. Typekit Yeah, costume. And I think she's so cute because she wears it with pride. She has a lot of fright. Every time I see her come out of that building, she has friends like all around her, and I'll ask, I think like, you know, when you see kids wear stuff like that, you're nice to them, right? And he's like, Oh yeah, I don't care. Like, nobody cares. And I love that so much. And he like, gives me the rundown on, like all of the different types of people that he sees. And then he'll I said something and I said this on another podcast about, I said, Are you nice to him? I think it's what I said. And he looked at me and he was like, Mom, we don't know if he identifies as a him. And I was like, OK, I said, Yes, OK, Isaac. Yeah. Like, there's just so much. Except at least it is for us like Smirnoff. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. There's a line. I can't speak for all schools, but I mean, that's kind of nice. So part of the reason that I feel like we connected was because we both had four kids. I mean, I think at the time I had three because you were there around the time I had, you are. You're already friends. Absolutely. So for you, what was the hardest transition kid wise? Because you started? How old were you when you had your first one? I was twenty three, so that's still super young. Yeah. What was the hardest transition, do you think? I think this is like my number one question, so I want to see if we have the same answer. I think for me, it was two to three, OK? I think because my age gaps are there's three years between my first shot of my second OK, which I fell as a young man was a pretty good gap. Yeah, I just had one potty trained when I had the next one. But between my second and third, there's five years. OK, so my second son, Kieran, he was already in. Regarding when I had Nash, OK, and I think that that cap was for me, too big, too big. OK, because I was already out well out of newborn was not sleeping. So you're talking in terms of like transition for you? Not necessarily as like a whole. No. OK, got just for me. OK. Yeah, that was difficult. And then to me, adding the force was no big deal, though honestly, see, three to four was my hardest, really? Yeah, because I had four years between Isaac and Lincoln. So when Isaac went to preschool, then I got alone time with Lincoln. And that was great. And then when he went to preschool, then I had Lux. There's almost four years between Lincoln and Lux. But by the time I had Lux, Harvey and I had split, so we had 50 50 custody. So the transition was, you know, I spent 50 percent of my time with just Lux. And I think, you know, to the people who say I have a favorite or Chris who says that I have a favorite edge is that he we grew up a lot together. Like, I was still learning how to be a parent by the time I had Lux. And so I don't necessarily think that that transition was hard for me. Creed was a very difficult baby. Hmm. So, yeah, that's Rita. So that was what made it harder. I mean, I think it depends on how you look at it because. Oddly enough, my third son, Nash, is also I would say, we have a different type of bond like if why is he thinks that he's not my favorite, but he's like the mama's boy? Uh-Huh. Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah, it's that they're a mama's boy. It's not that there's no disrespect to them. Yeah, he's not. I don't have a favorite. No, but it's a different type of bond, and it's because they favor us. Yeah. And I looking back, he's the only one that I really had alone time with. OK, I gave birth because my oldest two are both summer baby. So when I had my second son, my first son was not in daycare, so I had him all summer with my newborn. Nash was born in October, so both the boys were in school, so I had every single day for six weeks, right at home, alone together. So I don't know if that impacted the bond. Did you breastfeed him? Yes. Did you breastfeed other? I did, but I didn't breastfeed any as long as I breastfed. Now she and I don't know about you, but also I I slept. So Lincoln also has a special not that Isaac doesn't Isaac. Yes, yeah. But in my bond with Isaac now especially is stronger than it's ever been in my life. Yes, I will agree with toddlerhood too, because he was my first. But my bond with him now that he's coming into his own person is very different. But I do very much have a different relationship that I with Lincoln and Lux than I do with Isaac and Creed, because I did not co-sleep with Isaac or Creed. I close up with Lincoln and Lux just by chance. That's how it worked out. And so do you think that has something to do with it? Me personally, I think that everybody has a different bond with each child. Of course, the circumstances may be what, however, that comes about. Each child has their own personality. Hmm. And I do think that as a mom, you're in a different stage of manhood with every child. Yeah, I slept with my oldest could not get him out of the bed and I had my second, so I quickly learned I'm not doing that with my right. So I did not sleep with my second. Now, as I mentioned, there were five years, so I have the next one and I decided I was going to co-sleeping because I had another baby. And this is hard. Breastfeeding, yeah, in the middle of the night is just easy. You know, it's just easy to roll over and give up and go right back to sleep. Hearing it right back to sleep, wake up there. So in your view, whatever, it doesn't matter. So I could sleep with him also. And then I didn't sleep with my force again. So I kind of went back at it. Yeah, me too. That's the same for me. My youngest two are, like I said, 20 months apart. So I had I was still breastfeeding Nash when I had Nova. Oh wow. The entire time I was pregnant. Like, not for like, not exclusive. Right, right? You know what I mean? Because I was working. He was in daycare, but I do think that that affected our bond for sure. I think so. Yeah, at least in my research, I mean, everybody's different, but I think it depends on how you look at that, though, which is more difficult to me. Going from three to four was no big deal because I already had a 20 month old, so I was still kind of in that in the mom mode, all of that like, yeah, yeah. How did you decide that you were done having kids? Because I'm in a place where like my body is physically done, but like my heart is absolutely not done. OK, so I have I had three boys before I had a girl. So thinking about having kids as I was in my stage of having kids, I felt in my heart that I would not be done until I had a girl. OK, I was so weird. Not that I don't love my boys and appreciate my boys, but you just wanted to go. I just knew it's so weird, but in my heart, like I was going to be a girl mom someday. Like, I just had that part in me. I had to be a girl mom. So that was part of it. But then after I had my third, I kind of had gotten to a place where I was like, You know what? I think I'm done, and my forest, which happens to be my daughter, was actually a surprise. So you were done after Nash. I was and the reason I had decided I was done now. I didn't get my tubes tied at that time, but I kind of accepted that I was dying because I was going through a really hard place where I felt like I was the only one doing the caregiving. Mm-Hmm. Like you were in a relationship, but because your mom essentially right, essentially, which is oftentimes harder than being a single mom? Absolutely. So I was at a place where I, you know, was like, I cannot have another baby and do this on my own again. And I unfortunately felt like I basically did all of the newborn stages on my own. Mm hmm. Which is the hardest part. Yeah. In my opinion, yeah. And I got tired of like fighting over who was going to get up with the baby when he woke up and things like that. And I was just like, I can't. I don't think I can do this anymore. And then I had gotten pregnant with Nova. And it was a surprise I was still breastfeeding Nash. I was on low-dose birth control. Even so, how the f**k did that happen? Doctor, you? Maybe because. The breastfeeding while, but then I still was on the pill. So even he when I showed up, he was. How did this happen? I'm like, You're supposed to tell me how we have the same gynecologist, by the way. Love him. Shout out, doctor. Hey, Dr. Amobi loves you. But anyway, it worked out because she wasn't, you know, a girl, and it was just perfect. Unfortunately, I had a lot of complications during that pregnancy. I had developed high blood pressure for the first time. I had never had it previously in any of your other pregnancy, any of my other pregnancies. I loved being pregnant. Literally what I would surrogate date Sergei. I would sorry. I don't drag me for that. I'd be a surrogate. I would be a surrogate for other women because I honestly love being pregnant by her. Pregnancy was really hard. I found out I had hypothyroidism, and then she they kept coming up with different complication of her diagnosis. Yes, like I remember, like the first time they told me that something would be wrong with her. They said that her head was not shaped in the appropriate oval shape and that her cerebellum was small. So they led me to thinking that she may have spinal bifida. At one point, a doctor even asked me to consider termination termination. They asked me to do an immuno synthesis, and I refused any of that because you knew in your heart you're keeping the baby regardless. Absolutely. No matter what happens, I'm going to be a mom. I'm not. I'm not doing anything right. I'll roll with it, whatever happens. So I had, like all the level two ultrasounds every single week, and I was followed very closely. And then down the road, they ended up when I was 35 weeks going for a Level two ultrasound. The what is level two like a more intense ultrasound, like a like a maternal maternal fetal medicine. But I had those agreed fetal medicine. I might have had them with Lux two. Yeah, but more because I was overweight. Yeah. Oh yeah. For Creed, I don't remember why I had them, but I had them literally. Every week I went to the point where like, you know, when you are pregnant, I was like a first, second, sometimes third time mom and you're like, so excited for those ultrasounds that you cannot wait to go to them. It was to the point that with Creed, you're tired of it. I did not want to go for any more ultrasounds like I'm not. This is not a good time. I had to go every week and it was just at that time was not. It wasn't fun anymore. No, it wasn't. And that's how it was for me with no vote. And you also had the stress of like not knowing what news you were going to get. Exactly. So it was like, not only are you making time for this appointment, but you also don't know what the outcome is going to be and then you're stressed the f**k out. Like, I'm working a full time job trying to like leave on my break times and stuff. We're like, take two hours off as opposed to try to take the whole day off because I get so many appointments all the time. But at 35 weeks, they said they were doing the ultrasound. Something didn't look right with her heart and they were like, That's A. The hospital right now we're going to do. And I'm like, Can I go home? Get some things? No need to go right now. I had C-sections. So thankfully Dr. McGee's office? Well, I guess you didn't get the mayor. I was going to say it was right across the street from. Yeah, the maternal fetal medicine building was also concern. So it was convenient. But then I, you know, had to call my child's father and say, Hey, like they're taking the baby right now. You got to get here because they took me right in and within hours I was having a C-section, so it was really stressful. Was your partner there? He was. He got there in time? Absolutely. But I had decided during that pregnancy that I was done having kids. And I remember Doctor, you may be saying to me before I had my C-section and I had to. You have to sign paperwork to agree to get your tubes to be like, Okay. Because you know, you're signing off. Like, I know that I won't be able to have kids. I know that's risky surgery, yada yada. So you have to sign off to it and you're able to get that done as soon as you have a C-section. Yes, they could do it while I was OK. Gotcha. So you have to sign off in agreement that that's what you want to have done since it is kind of like a life altering situation, right? So he had said to me before I had my C-section that he could not guarantee that knew it was going to make it. And do I still want to have a have the tubal done? And I said yes. Like, I knew I could not do this again, whether she made it or whether she made her f**king child, like, do you see the goose bumps? Yeah, it was hard. I don't think that I like, how did you make that decision in that moment? I knew I had already had my mind set on the fact that I knew I wanted to have my tubes. I did not. Not only did I, you know, not necessarily want to go through, like, have another baby on my own again, but I did not want to. I would never want to replace her, right? So catch. You gotten pregnant again, it would not if something happened to her and she's gone, you're not replacing. Correct, OK. Correct. And luckily, you know, things went smooth. She was only in the nick you for four days. She was born with a tiny hole in her heart, but it closed up pretty quickly after she was born. And so at what point did you get good news then that she was going to make it and she was OK? I mean, they discharged her from the nick you? Yeah, I mean, once she was in the nick you, which it was extremely scary. Oh, I know less anybody that has children that go to the nick because it is scary. Birthing a child is scary. Yeah, but to know that you know your baby has complications, it is. 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There's part of me that sometimes is like, well, you know what, if I meet someone down the road that doesn't have kids or that, you know, I fall madly in love with and I think it's kind of a human. Yeah, it's like to like, I want to have a baby with you, like Kourtney and Travis. Yes, I, you know, I have kids, but I want to have one with you. So I know that down the road, if that ever happens now, I'm also in my late 30s, so not really an ideal time to have more kids, I guess. But I mean, I think Kourtney Kardashian's like 40 something. Yes, but her life compared to my life. Drew, are you working on Kardashian Level five The Kardashians and could sit home all day and hire a nanny and work from home? Yeah. Different story. Yeah. If I had, you know, I struggle financially taking care of the four kids I have. I can't imagine throwing another one in there. And then plus my patience level, and I'm just, isn't it weird how like I always thought the more kids I had, the more patience I have now. It's the opposite. You're losing it every single like. I have way more patience before than I do now, and it's so crazy. I think it's an aging thing also like less tolerance for bulls**t or slightly OK? Absolutely. Because I just don't have I don't have the patience. Like with Creed, I don't want to hear you whine, so I'm going to help you with whatever it is that you want. Yes. Oh, you want something here? Just take it because I'm not sure you want gold. Gold turtles before dinner, you're going to get the gold f**king turtles before dinner. Here we go. I'm choosing my battles. Exactly. So we kind of touched on this single moms thing in a relationship versus being an actual single mom. I definitely feel like I experienced that with Joe. Yeah. Not in the same way that I did with Chris. Just because Joe and I were young, we were so young. And now looking back, I don't think that I was a single mom when I was with him. I think at that time, he just wasn't doing things my way. Yeah. And so I had to grow from that. Yeah, I started to feel more like a team player when I was married to Harvey because, you know, he would get up for work at four or five or six in the morning, be gone all day. I would be with the baby and then I would nurse and stuff. But on the weekends, he really did make it a point to like I would nurse in the morning because I exclusively breastfed for a year with Lincoln. I would feed him around like five or six in the morning, and then he would take the baby for me to get like two or three hours of sleep until the next feed. Yeah. And so I definitely felt like there was like more team. Yeah. It's like co-parenting. Yeah. Well, you're in a really? Yes. And then Lux was more so like I did that by myself while trying to make it work with Chris. And then sometimes we were good. Sometimes we weren't like it was just like a mess. So you kind of also experience that. Yeah. And I I think we both agree that if we're going to be a single mom in a relationship, we might as well just absolutely just end the relationship. I know for me and this is not to bash. No, we're not. This is not meant to bash. No, absolutely not. So we've had enough saying yes. Anyone that's listening to this, this is our perspective, everyone's perspective only. There are three sides to the truth. Yours, mine and the actual truth. So this is my truth. I definitely fell. So I did a lot of it alone. And I think what happened for me for so long, I didn't want to be a single mom. I wanted to give my kids a two parent household. But once I actually became a single single mom, what I was able to let go of was the resentment when I was in a relationship and like, I think that's the biggest part of it. I had so much respect and anger because, you know, every single time I would have to get up in the middle of night and put a baby back to sleep, I would be like, Why are you helping me? Exactly? Why can't you be your turn correct? So then not only are you physically doing it, but then you feel that resentment and that like eating you? Yes, because it's like, why am I doing this alone when you're right here? That's how I felt. That is why the relationship that I have with Lux is the way it is. Because when I would get up in the middle of the night, I knew there was no other option, so there's no resentment. I even though I wanted to be with him for my own selfish reasons, but I did not want him like. So the resentment was there in that aspect, but it was not because of looks like, yeah, use that as an excuse, almost. But I knew there was no other option. I knew that I was the only one getting up with him at night. I knew that and I was OK with that at that point. I would rather do it by myself than be f**king pissed off that you're next to me. Yep. And that's where I'm at now. And you know, my kids are older, so there's not really that, you know, waking up in the night to feed change diapers. None of that anymore. But everything you know, when I'm the only one cooking dinner, when I'm the only one taking them to sports practices or whatever it may be. I know that there's no other option. So it is just like, OK, well, this is what I'm doing, and I am the only one to do it. So I can't be angry or upset that somebody else isn't helping because there is nobody here to help. Right at this point, and now I'm like, I will never. Even though I for a long time, I was feeling resentment because I did this stuff by myself. Now I'm like, No, you're taking these f**king kids now when it's your time. You are taking these f**king kids because I now want to break and you had a break when they were newborns. You know what I mean? I mean, my situation with Chris was a little bit different, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah, I definitely do. And it's so hard. Those ebbs and flows of like the resentment where it comes from, where it stems from, you know, when it goes away, how to get over it. It's so hard. Yeah. Can we talk about absent versus inconsistent dads because I had an absent father? And for a long time, I was resentful towards my mom because I felt like she should have let him come in and out so that I could make my own opinion about him. However, now as a mom, I understand why she dropped him out and lock the f**king door because she was inconsistent as it was, and I think my mom knew that. I think my mom knew that I didn't need to inconsistent parenting like one inconsistent parent and one to completely f**king absent parent as a mom now. I understand that because I think that inconsistency is worse. It's absolutely worse because you're you're getting them hyped up for the letdown and then they're making promises and then there's a letdown. Absolutely. And then you know what I mean versus where I the way I grew up was my dad was never coming around. There was a disappointment, right? But there was no. I mean, specifically for me, I had hopes that my dad was going to come save me, but it was. That was the only hope. There was no like, maybe he'll come this weekend. Maybe he'll come next weekend. I'll get a trip this weekend to go see, you know, all of those things. Yeah. So when it comes to your kids, you have two different situations I do. So I would definitely say that my oldest son's father is a prime example of an inconsistent. Mm-Hmm. And now to the point where I've accepted that absence is better. He has been inconsistent his entire life. And he unfortunately had to deal with those letdowns. The dad said he would pick me up this weekend. Dad came, came and I always said to myself that I would never speak bad about him or even really speak the truth about him to my son. I would let him kind of grow up and figure his dad out on his own. So like, if he came to you and asked you something, would you kind of give him? Kind of like a matter of fact answer, or would you more so listen. Like, how do you even handle then or now? Both, I guess. Okay. So when he was young before he was old enough to have a cell phone and things like that, I would not communicate with him that his dad was going to pick him up. Okay. And then if he showed up, he showed up. OK, so you didn't really didn't. There was no hyping him up and then letting him down. OK, good, good. Now, unfortunately, did happen in some cases, but once he was old enough to have a cell phone, his dad started communicating with him instead of me. So then he would say, like, my dad wants me to come to his house, he's going to pick me up. Is that OK? We didn't. We don't have any custody schedule. I'll say that first. I never took him for custody or child support. I was young and I think I was just in a also. It's expensive, it is expensive, and I grew up with divorced parents. And I recall in my childhood my mom talking about like the child support check and things like that, and I just didn't. It was kind of like a sore spot for me. I really, you know, I did that every other weekend with my dad and then Wednesday night, but also to I. Would he have followed a of order? So it wouldn't have been one time and I knew the type of person he is. He would never come after me for my son, either, right? Like, you know, if you took him, he wouldn't even. Yeah, OK, OK, whatever I could pick up move say, it's like he would be like, whatever. So it's a shame. But yes, I never felt that I needed really to have custody, but I kind of just let him see him whenever he showed an interest in having him, I would say sure. So as he got older and got a cell phone, he would say, Dad's going to pick me up this weekend and then he wouldn't show. And he's an emotional child, but kind of holds it. He also has so many similarities to Isaac. He really does. And I think it's like the oldest child because he his dad's inconsistent. Hmm. But Isaac is not. But they still have very a lot of similar qualities they do, and he's very sensitive. So anyway, he would be let down as he got older. It would get to the point where he didn't even want to go to his dad's. But he would say to me, My dad wants me to come over this weekend. I don't want to go, but I don't want to tell him no, because I don't want to hurt his feelings. That is so f**king sad to me. Why is my 11 year old not worried about a grown a*s means feelings who just won't ask me and doesn't care about his child's? Exactly. But I never said that I have goosebumps again. Do you see the hairs on my arms? Yeah, it's. And now he's 14. He does. I'm able to now have more realistic conversations with him about his dad. And he can handle it. You know, he loves his dad very much, but he knows who he is. He knows who he is. He doesn't expect as much anymore. And you know exactly how I said when he was young, I kind of want to let him build his own relationship with his son, and it was going to be up to him. And I wasn't going to talk about about him or affect the relationship in any way. And I feel like I've done a really good job at that. And he's just had a place now where he knows who he is and he knows the type of person that he's dealing with and doesn't have much of a relationship with him that kills me. Yeah, and I did actually recently take both of my kids dads. Well, you know, yeah, baby dads to court for custody and child support. And unfortunately, he didn't even show up. We had three different dates and he never showed up. So I have sole custody of my oldest, which never happens here in Delaware. Never. But it's so hard to get. I mean, they could be in prison and literally inmates have shared places, placements, shared placement, shared custody. Yeah. And that's what I mean. That never I mean, Pennsylvania was very different especially well in terms of all that child support, custody, the standard of custody, things like that. But when I went to court here in Delaware, they the judge looked at me that on my face and told me, are inmates get custody of their kids. So Delaware is very much shared custody, joint custody regardless. Big time, 50 50, you have to be pretty much a piece of s**t to knock it. But even then, you got to be like an extra like an actual lowlife to not get any custody. But yeah, all I had to do was answer the phone. He didn't even have to show up. He just had to answer a phone call three times, and he didn't. So I have sole custody and I have the rights to say if he can have visitation or not. And again, I still kind of let it be up to my son, but you reach a point where you're just like, Why? Why am I allowing this? It's it would be better for you to just fall off the face of the Earth. No, literally, literally. Because you being in and out affects them more, in my opinion. Yeah, than it does to just be gone. So it's so hard. I don't think that any like, no matter what age you are, nobody could prepare you to deal with co-parenting. With an inconsistent father, no, it is literally the hardest thing because you constantly question yourself like, am I doing the right thing? You try to compensate for the fact that the father is not around or the mother. If that's the case, you find yourself trying to compensate for the fact that they only have one parent in their life. And, you know, I was never the type to make excuses. But I know some people try to like help and make excuses for the other parent or have them talk negatively about the other parent. But I always try to stay really neutral so that, you know, my opinion of his father never affected his opinion or his relationship with his father. The explosive new season of The Real Housewives of New Jersey is back, and if you're anything like me, you can't get enough. That's why I'm here to tell you all about some of my favorite podcasts and why. PodcastOne is the number one destination for all things jersey. First up here from one of our favorite Italian bombshells. Hey everyone, it's your favorite jersey housewife Melissa Gorga. Make sure to check out season two of Melissa Gorga on display. Family takes center stage this season and the ultimate OG is spilling all the tea. Hear it straight from the queen herself. Namazi b***hes is all new every Wednesday, and if you haven't listened yet, here's what you've been missing me, Teresa Giudice and my co-host crazy Melissa Feaster. Listen to Naama Staybridge is with Teresa Giudice and Melissa Gorga on display wherever you get your podcasts. And it doesn't stop there. Check out podcast 1cm slash verses and play to win by voting on hot topics and pressing questions about your favorite housewives. That's podcast Wine slash VTR as us. Do you think that he has ever been affected by his siblings, dad being in the picture, but his dad not? I don't know how it affects him. I know he, his siblings, father has been in his life since he was two and been more of a father to him than his biological father was. I think that that was he's always called him dad, literally since he was young. That's been his dad, too. And I thought, maybe it hasn't necessarily impacted him the same way that it would if he didn't look at him as a father figure. Maybe, yeah, because he does definitely look at him as a father, and I'm very thankful that he always treated my family as though he was his own child. Still, does, you know, we're not together any longer. He still treats my son as though he's hurt his son, right? So I think if any impact, it's been a positive impact for him to have a father and someone that I definitely think he considers to be his father. Yeah, now I know, deep down, he probably has some kind of feeling like, why isn't his biological father the same kind of father? But he hasn't really expressed that. So because my dad also left my sister, I mean, my sister had more time with my dad than I did. She had five years before he was out. But I think her mom did the same thing after like, yeah, yeah. And see that about that as a mom, that would be hard for me, like I'm not the type of mom to just shut them off. Looking back, should I have? Maybe, but I knew that I didn't want to. Be have any kind of feeling that I was the problem, right? You know what I mean? I was able to sleep at night knowing it wasn't on me, right? Like, you weren't a bit bitter, maybe mom trying to hold her quote from him because like I said, we need these f**king breaks, man. Yeah. And honestly, like at the top, looking back now, knowing what I know as a 37 year old woman and and who you know who I am now versus a 25 year old that I was when we split for my son's sake and his mental health and wellbeing, maybe it would have been better to cut him off. But you couldn't have known that then. You know what I mean? Like, that's like a hindsight is any type of thing it is. And again, I still feel comfortable in knowing, you know, you did everything in your power to make him be the father that he should have been around you. Nobody can ever knock you for that. Correct. And if I hope that it didn't have negative effects on my son, I mean, obviously it has to at some point. But if I could have prevented that, I would. But I know that he could never have resentment towards me for keeping his father away from me. Right, right. You know? Yeah, yeah, I definitely bear. Like I said earlier, like there was a period where I resented my mom, but now, like I said, as a mom, I understand where her decision came from. Yeah. And so I almost I give her grace. Like, I forgive her for that because she was just doing in her f**ked up own way when she walked away what she thought was best. And I think it's a case by case basis. It's like, I don't judge anyone that does cut off the other parent. You have to do what you feel is best as a parent, you know you are your child's only advocate. You have to do what you think is best in the moment for your child. Yep. And there are so many situations in our lives where we look back and think like, Wow, maybe I should've done that differently, but I did the best you could at the time. Absolutely. And so that's kind of where I'm at, too, just in general. So, you know, to your point, I think we all just do the best we can for that time. And you just hope for the best. I mean, my therapist, I've written letters to myself and to my kids about these situations. Like she'll tell me, like write a letter and tuck it away. And when you're ready, if you choose to give it to your son so that he understands your mind, your mind during that time. Yeah. Moving on from this, what has it been like dating for you as a single mom? Because you and I have both been. You've met people that I've dated. I put, I say, dating lightly because I don't go on f**king dates ever. You do, but you have barely barely is dating going on dates, even a real twenty four kids and dating is not a good time. No, it really is not a good time. I think dating in general is a s**t show at this time in our lives. It's a s**t show. Honestly, in my personal experiences, men are just not s**t. Yeah, they honestly, I don't know how to put it nicely. They, you know, I get a lot of narcissistic vibes from a lot of men. You know, they have their time when they want you to be around and then you're an inconvenience when it's not the right time for that. That's so f**ked up. I don't, and I'm not saying that women don't do it, but I definitely think that more men do that. Yeah, I, you know, or at least women are not as obvious about it. Yeah, that could be because women are just smarter than men and definitely definitely smarter. But you know, what I find is a lot of inconsistency. I. I've come across a lot of men who are, quote single, but they live with their exes, you know? Wait a minute. No, that's not how this works. Like we understand inflation's a big deal right now. We understand it's expensive, but go live in your mom's basement. Not your abs or your baby mom half an hour actually together. Absolutely live with your mom or your parent, right? Who wants to live with her ex? I mean, seriously. No, I'm not ever. No. No, that's not really. No. So a lot of you know, the men I've encountered, I guess, think I'm just dumb and believe anything like I've been through. I've been around the block. Yes, I'm not dumb. You're not going to take advantage of me because I know what the f**k you're doing. And if I choose to stay, it's because I'm choosing to stay. Not because you're outsmarting me. Absolutely. And it's like, honestly, for me, just tell me straight up what this is like. If you are in a relationship and you just aren't happy and you want to side peace, you want to see peace that are trying to separate, but you're not there yet. Let me choose if I want to mess with someone that has a life partner or family to be the sidekick. If I want to deal with waiting for you to leave her house, let me choose because if I had to guess nine times out of ten, I think if a woman is already kind of invested, she's going to stay regardless if you're just honest. I mean, yeah, you don't have to lie to her. She will not stay or not. And if she doesn't, then you can find someone that will. And don't lie to me because I'm going to find out women always do. I'm going to find out because if you don't find out on purpose, you will find out an accident. And that's what I would always tell Chris. Like, what's done is will come to light. Always. Some way, somehow you're going to find out. I had a go so far as to again, this was do I know the situation I lived with his ex, you know, was on a whole trip in another state with this quote, ex sat me a fake location to prove to me that he was not on vacation. How did that happen? I remember this, but like I don't remember there was a trip. It was a birthday trip. But how did he send the fake location? So remember, we actually ended up trying it. I texted you and I said, Hey, like, I need to find out if you can afford a fake location. So you texted Kristin and said, Sam, your location, and then you forwarded me Kristen's location and it worked. So he got us out here. Given the obvious sorry about for the girls, this is for the girls. Only you can forward somebody else's location. So he must have asked a friend that lived in Dover for their location and then offered it to me. That's so funny, only for the very next day for pictures to show up on Facebook of him in this set location on vacation with the girl. Yeah, yeah. Who was clearly not there? Clearly not the ex. Now, now I believe it's actually an ex, but you know, I don't know how long you and men suck. They really do. Nobody really wants to go on dates. I mean, it's like, and if they do, they're like, here, pay for yourself. Yeah, it's like, No, I'm not. No. And first of all, you have four kids. I have four kids. I mean, you're not in that stage right now. But but I've been I make time to go on a date with you, understand that I took a lot of planning. It did absolutely OK. I am not willing to give you another chance after I've made all these arrangements and then you bail. I mean, Natalie doesn't help when she would help me on the weekends if I needed her to. But like if I was to go out on a date and you're paying someone to watch your kids and I'm paying someone to watch my kids or say, I wait for them to go to their dads, I still gave up my child free day or night waiting on you. Yeah, yeah. And then you don't show like, I'm not giving you another chance or you want to show up for a booty call at 11 o'clock. It's like. There goes your booty call. No, I'm just kidding. I wish. But absolutely, it's too early in the day when you're like, Hold on, hold on. It's a little early for that. But no, I'm not having people in my house like, I'm not at that place until we're in a serious, committed relationship. I'm not hanging around my kids. I'm not having you in my house like, you got to put in the work. This is not, you know, it's fair. I'm a I'm a mom of four. I have very limited free time. And like you said, if I'm giving you my free time, I expect it to be like that. You're committed to this and you're taking me on a day that it's worth my time, that I've invested, setting up, being able to have time off. I just it's I think, how do I say this? Because I feel like I in my head. I know what I'm trying to say, but like. Sometimes I feel I have found myself leading people on because I didn't know how to essentially like I don't want to hurt someone's feelings as like a people pleaser. Absolutely, because I so like I would end up in these long term relationships because I was and I was settling and didn't know how to end it. And I don't think that goes for just women. I think that there are men that are people pleasers too, or men that they like the attention. And so they'll keep things going for their own person have some kind of benefit that they're not willing to give up. Right, right, right. Right, right. You know, if they do live with said person like they're not ready to get their place and have to pay the rent or the mortgage on their own. So they're staying in that relationship longer than they want to, just because they don't want to have to do it on their own. So I'm very much like that, even as far as just hookups where I have a really hard time letting someone down or like, No, I'm not interested in them any longer. For instance, I have one guy that has been pretty consistently trying to hang out, and I just I can't. I can't. OK. OK. So he I just I'm not really interested, but I can't let him know. I'm not interested. So like, even if I can make time, I'm not making a dime and I'm always busy. But that goes to show that you make time for who you want to make time for, and that goes all the way around for men as well. Like you, when we have a man telling us that they'll do X, Y and Z or they want to do this, they want to do that, and then they don't do it, then they'll follow through. They don't actually want to. And don't call me at four o'clock in the morning, either, because they're in bed. OK, like, no. But yeah, I'm guilty of that too. And I just don't. It's really hard. You know, and then but I wonder, like, how long are you going to keep trying before you realize that I see and that like, you know, I've been in a relationship where, like where I've I've put it kind of all out there, and now you're choosing to stay. Yeah, you're choosing to deal. Yeah, you're dealing with the bulls**t. Don't blame it on me anymore. Right? And like, I've been there to where I've like, talked a lot of s**t and then I stayed in the relationship. Or, you know what I mean? So like, we're choosing not. Yeah, our types of men are kind of similar sort of. Yeah, because that's no list right here. Same different. I mean, you'll be willing to date someone with kids where I'm not. Yeah, that's true. Why? Why would you date a woman woman? Why would you date a man with kids? You just don't care. Or I don't know. I think, like, are you not scared of them? Like hooking up with their baby mom behind your back? Absolutely, absolutely, I. But I feel like regardless whether they have kids or not, you run the risk of them hooking up with someone else behind your back anyway. OK, so does it really matter if it's a baby mom or not? I think where you come from is like, they've all come back to me. They've all come back right? And I feel like that's common in my situation too, like they would come back if given the opportunity. But I think men are men, and they would go back, go to anyone, given the opportunity, in most cases, they all would f**k anything with it. Also, like it doesn't really matter if it's their baby mom or not. Now I've been through situations with my ex, with very nasty situations, with baby moms, and I'm not willing to engage in drama with baby moms at all. Like, I don't want to talk to them. I don't. You have that situations outside of me, so I'm not getting involved. But to me, I think it's just kind of pretty much most people around my age have kids at this point, right? I don't. It's very uncommon to meet a man in their late 20s, late 30s, you know, in that range from late 20s that don't have kids that don't have kids, right? So you're significantly reducing the number of options you have if you say you're going to not someone with kids because chances are they have kids. I don't know what it is, but like, I feel like I have only ever really attracted people that don't have kids like I. I'm trying to think off the top of my head, but I also don't think that you really give people a chance if they do have kids. I wouldn't even look at them twice, like I would not take a double what you like. Like as soon as someone as soon as I find out that a man has a child, this going to sound really f**ked up. It's fine. I'm here for. I'm not attracted to you at all. And if that's the same way for me, like if a man looks at me and they're like, you have four kids or f**king 12 kids and all these baby dads, I'm not attracted to your ugly. In fact, I'd be like, OK, like, I don't care. I'm not. I think people have a lot of opinion about the fact that you say you like, How are you going to say you don't date a man with kids when you have kids? But like, I do understand where you're coming from as far as like, it is a personal choice. If you don't to have a lot of Typekit in my life, I don't need to take on your s**t as well. And that's another, but I also don't put my s**t on the men that I'm dating. Yeah, so like with Malik, for example, I would have like, maybe went to him, not even about all situations. A lot of times he just happened to be there when the situation was occurring, the way that he, in my opinion, the way that he handled it was really well. He never involved himself unless I knew if I wanted to, he would have. But he never. Yeah, it took him us breaking up and going through everything socially like social media for him to even say anything to Chris about how he felt. But I don't. I do not ever expect a man that I'm dating to take on my kids financially, provide for my kids. Do, like Malik never did pick ups and drop offs from school. Yeah. Things like that. I don't. I don't put that on. And then I on another side was in a situation where I the only guy that I actually have dated since I split with my baby dad, which was two years ago, where I felt as though he got too involved. And that was definitely internal for me. Like, I want you to be there for me if I'm struggling, but I don't want you to get involved to the point where you're like, he better. Never talk to me. He better, never look at you again. Like, Don't get that involved where you're like. Then you become a problem because I already have enough tension between me and my baby's father, I need you to come in and add more tension, but right? Absolutely. Let me handle my myself and my situations and be there for me if I need to vent or if I, you know, if I want to talk to you and say, like, Hey, I need to vent, but don't say anything, don't I don't really want you to get involved. I don't want you to have an important ally, my partner. Just be there for me. Yeah. So like, comfort me. Yeah. And then that's it. Don't get involved. I don't want you to talk to him. I don't want you to do anything that I don't want you to get involved, but I want you to just be there for me. It's almost infuriating, and I don't know if I'm speaking just from personal experience or just like maybe other people feel this way too. Like when you're dating someone with kids that is not your children's father and they start to involve themselves or like, put them. Now I'm now, I'm pissed off at you. I don't care if you don't like my baby that don't f**king talk about him. Exactly. Don't f**king take my baby. I just I could talk about it. But you cannot. You cannot like that pisses me off. Or like, Oh, you know, have them come talk to me. No, no, I'm not doing none of that. No. That's what we're not. And that's what I'm saying. They don't add to the problem. And I think that's a huge part of why I don't want to date men with children, but also my life is very different in that I have been problematic where you're less problematic and also you're a little bit older than me. So you kind of see things. You know, I am when I half the time I've been a mom, I was a baby. Yeah. So things are just kind of messy. I'm getting better. But to your point, yeah, know, I'm not thinking. I mean, things with me can be messy, too. I think I just. I avoid mass at all costs. I'm trying. Yeah, because I don't I don't want to be messy and sometimes to a fault, whereas I let things slide that I shouldn't. OK. So I think there's a middle middle road there where you can go down. It's a little messy, but a little bit. Try to stay out of it as much as possible. Pet peeves and personal red flags. Oh Jesus. In dating. Personal. OK. Well, to be honest, the more red flags you have, the better we're seeing red. The. Yeah, it's like red in our hearts. Absolutely. No, I'm getting better. Personal red flags. OK? You live with your ex. If you live with your ex all the way out, don't even try to approach me. Yeah, I can't even tell you how many men I've met in two years that quote live with their ex. Mm hmm. So please do not live with your ex to the bare minimum. Let's see. We do not live with your ex inconsistency like do not tanks. Reduce me to an energy that you're going to cannot maintain, which I can think of someone that you dated right off the top of my little head. Absolutely. That wined and dined you. Absolutely. And then turned around and was like, If you're a ghost to me, if you're not feeling it, say, say it. It's going to hurt my feelings. It's going to hurt my ego. But I'm going to have way more respect for you as a person, if you're honest with me. And the same goes for me and you as well. Like, we should be doing the same and sometimes we do, and sometimes we don't. But I feel like for a man like, don't string me along and don't like, don't text me and say, Hey, what are you doing? Or, Hey, how are you? And I respond within two minutes, max, and then you don't text me back for eight hours for that day and I say, I'm good. How are you? And then you text me back eight hours later, Oh, I'm good. No, I don't even care anymore. Why did you text me? Ask me a question? And then I responded, and you don't respond for hours. But also, in that instance, don't even check in on me, right? Because I'm like, Why did you? What was the purpose of this? I'm trying to make plans, because if not, don't text me. Don't smile. I don't small talk much like even when I'm out, I like when people come up to me from, like knowing me from the show. I would rather them come up to me and say. Not be like how, ah, like don't smile, talk like. Tell me something. Yeah, I love like, Hey, I watched you. I love your name is so-and-so. Yeah, I related to you in this way or whatever. Not like, Oh, how like the small talk? It don't change. You know, what are our personal red flags like? Oh, for me. Like what? Yeah, a probably the fact that I entertain things I'm not interested in, like I just saw people pleasers. Yeah, like, I am not just going to say, you know, I'm no longer interested, I'm going to let you pick up what I'm laying down, and I'm going to say, You know what? I'm busy. Are you busy? Are you available at all this week? Actually, I'm not available for the next three weeks. This is what we're complaining about doing it, but we're going to do it. We're going to do that for you, but you can't do it to us. I just have a hard time. And maybe that's why the men do it to like, but I don't know. I just have to get better at saying like, you know, I'm really not interested. Or like, if you know, when they start out, like, do you have a man like, are you single? I should just be like, No, I'm not single. I have him in. Or, like, I'm not dating right now. I don't know. I should just say it because I will legit, just like, engage in conversation with people I'm totally not interested in, just to not make you feel bad about yourself. I think it's so funny because my friend, you know what time this was years ago, but one time she's like, Carl, you're so nice to everyone. Like men would come up to us, like when we would go out and stuff and you're like, You're too nice. Like, I would never even give him the time of day, and she would be so mean. But how do you do that? What do you say? I wish like I look like she was just like, Shout out to me. This is not me being, I'm not talking s**t. I'm just saying like, I wish I was more like you. She will straight up tell someone to f**k off like, No, I'm not interested. Like, just if they look at her a certain type of way or never. If they came up to her trying to talk to her, she'll shut them down real quick. I could. No, and I'm like, I. But you know what? I it's I think it's art trauma. Yeah, maybe because people pleasing is not a good quality. No, it's not because in the long run, like like we were saying, we don't like men to do it to us because, yeah, it's going to hurt their feelings, but they'll get over it. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's true. But I don't know that I could do that. OK, so there was a ticktalk that I saw, and I might have talked about this before, but we're going to get your perspective on it. OK? Men marry the woman in front of them at the time that they're ready to settle down. Not necessarily the woman they're in love with. Hmm. What are your thoughts? I think I talked about this with Lindsay. Maybe I could definitely see that because I feel like, you know, my last really real relationship with my kids dad was 11 years. We never got married. That feels like such a long time. He just. Did you ever want to marry him? So we were engaged, and I think we went through like ebbs and flows of time periods where we were really serious about getting married and then others where we were like, not. Now, mind you, the last several years of us being together was pretty toxic, but I think I only met him one time. Yeah, I think so. I mean, maybe like twice like like once in passing. And it's like actually meeting him. Yeah, I knew who he was, and I know he knew who I was. Yeah, we definitely had like our different friends, like we never really went to like events or hangouts together. Really, like I had my friends, he had his friends. Do you feel like that's a weird dynamic, looking back or. Absolutely. I mean, it worked well for us. I I think anybody that would have met us would say we're pretty much complete opposites in almost every every way, shape and form, which worked out for us together for some period of time. But yeah, I mean, it was kind of weird. It was nice. Well, that was kind of nice because sometimes when you blur the lines of like your relationship and friendships like, you know, then it kind of gets muddied. Like, Who's like my friends? Your friends, like having the separate friends is nice because I know that like I could vent to you and you didn't have any loyalty to him at all. I didn't have any loyalty, and I also had no judgment if I didn't know exactly what's on his side with his friends. I don't know if you experienced this, but in my experience with someone like that, when we had completely different friends and I was never hanging out with his friends, it also paved the way for him to be more dishonest. Yeah, because they had no loyalty to you and they didn't care if what he was doing when they were around him. Well, right. And he could bring other girls around. Yeah. Or, you know, whatever the case may be, where like, I would want to have my friends by myself, but I also would want him to come with friends on my side, too, because I knew my friends weren't going to try anything with him. Yeah, no, no, I agree with that. Absolutely. I would never have a friend that I would feel that would cross the lines. In that way. You'd be attracted. Like if I felt that a woman was like that, they wouldn't be my friend, right? Absolutely. But I could, you know, I could see where it would be nice to have similar friends, but I think that I'm a man and a woman is going to do whatever they set out to do so regardless. Of, you know, even if you knew his friends and you were friends with his friends, he he would bring other girls around, his friends aren't going to tell you that he's doing that. I don't think so. I don't think they would. Hmm. I don't think that they would be like, Whoa, why do you have this girl around? And why are you cheating on kale? They're just going to go with the bulls**t. They're his friends. But you know what? I think the common misconception in a lot of people's lives is like. Well, no, you're right, because I think the same for women, but also like if you did that to me, I'd be like, Emily, what the f**k are you doing? Yeah. So I'm going to tell you, I'm also going to support whatever you're going to do because that's what you're here for. It doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with it. But yeah, so I guess I see what you're saying that goes for men and women. Yeah. But and I think along the lines of what you were just saying where you're not, you don't necessarily agree with it. I think that's just like how I know that's how our friendship is probably other people's friendship as well. Like, I'm not going to judge you and it might not be what I want for you, but I'm going to support it. You know, my cardless yeah. And I'm going to tell you how I feel about it, but I know you're going to do what you want to do at the end of the day, and I'm going to be here. You know, if s**t hits the fan, I'm going to be here to pick up the pieces. Was he your most recent baby down? Mm hmm. Was he ever married before he was? He was. He was. He had gotten married when he was 19 years old. Here is a PSA for anyone listening that is considering getting married at 19, 20 21. Don't do it. Don't do it. I literally got married. I got pregnant and married with my second child before I turned 21. I might have been just turned twenty one. Yeah, I was 21 because I found out I was pregnant with Lincoln on my 21st birthday and then I got married that September. So that's not a good time. Yeah. And also, I mean, we're just growing and learning and need to figure things out for ourselves. But also he also got married at 19 to a 29 year old woman. So I don't know if you can imagine. I mean, I'm far off 29, but you're relatively close to twenty nine. Picture a 19 year old kid. Absolutely the f**k. Not. No way. You are not ready. I feel like there's like a saying where it's like you have to go through like the whole phase or whatever before you. You absolutely did. And I always go through that like, we all go through it. Whether it's high school, whether it's college, whether it's your early 20s, I don't know. It could be any time of your life, but I do not believe in my heart that any 19 year old man or woman is ready to settle down and make absolutely nothing. So, yeah, so I do you think that men? Marry the person. Oh, yes, that is that is in front of them. I do. I think that I get to a time in their life where they feel that they're ready to be married for whatever they're done, but it's not necessarily the person that they love. No, because I feel like maybe they have love for this person. Absolutely. But I don't necessarily think that it's the person that they wanted to be married to. And I think that and again, maybe women go through this too, but I feel like men could be with someone they love at 20 years old and she don't know they're going to be themselves during that time, regardless of how much they love you. And what I went through with my baby dad and infidelity and whatever. I don't believe that was because he didn't love me. I just believe that was a phase of life that he was in and his own. He was meeting his own needs, his own insecurities and those kinds of ways, and it didn't have any anything to do with how much he loved me or didn't love me. And I think that he just he was not in a place to get married. And I think that men reach a time where they're ready to get married and it's just like, OK, well, this is who I'm with, and they make me happy. You know, I don't think they just marry someone they're not happy with, but I think that maybe they could have had access that they should have married or would have love more. But they don't marry them because they're not in the place to get married. Whereas I think women look at it as I know me personally, look at it as I'm not marrying someone unless I absolutely love them and picture a life with them, which is why I'm 37. I have never been married. I think that I got married. Because I thought that's what I was supposed to do, given the situation. Yeah. Looking back, I think I married the person that was in front of me to solve all the problems, but I think that. I'm not going to say it was a mistake because I learned a lot from it, but I romanticized and fantasize. Marriage was being something it wasn't. And I even wrote about it in my book and I was like, You know, I'm the happiest I've ever been, which is bulls**t, really. It was absolute bulls**t. But I think we get like an image. So like, I didn't know you at this time, but I could picture you thinking like, I'm pregnant with my second child. And we tried for a baby. At one point, unnamed man or named man was there as a stepfather to your other child. I mean, he was a good father. Here you were having a baby. And you know, that is the picture perfect lifestyle, right? Like, I'm going to be a wife. I'm going to have a baby. He's a good stepdad. So, yeah, I could see that like, this is what I'm supposed to do. Yeah, I got to fix everything that I just did. And I I also think that I made it worse at the time because I also like I like I said I was a baby, so I was making crazy decisions. I was explosive, defensive, all those things. I think it would be very different if I were to get married. Now it's going to be because I love that person. I want to be with that person, not because they're in front of me. And I almost like, It's funny because Isaac and I, I picked Isaac up from his dad's yesterday. Oh, I said I wanted to marry someone that I would be in love with. And I told Isaac, I said, You know, it's funny is that like, I really like my space. If there's nothing more that I took away from all my baby dads. Yeah, all my relationship s**t. So shows it's that I now very much value my alone time. Absolutely. And I actually love being by myself, and I said, sometimes, you know. It's very hard to sleep in the same bed as someone because I love my space so much and I value my peace, believe it or not, yeah, I know that. And then I'll find those meds for three days, and a lot of s**t hit the fan over the weekend. I love being by myself, and he he cracks me up because Isaac was like, I don't want anyone to sleep in my bed. And I was like, I don't play. No, we're going to hear something like, we're here the next time I get there in your bed and they're in your business and I say, never go away. Yes, like if we could just be neighbors and live that way for the rest of our lives. Great. Now I'm with you with appreciating my space. Now that I've been single for two years, but for a long time I dealt with codependency, which also went to like it was hand in hand with people pleasing because I did want to let people down. Yep. But I also didn't want to be alone. We're like now, I don't want someone in my space and for a long time, even when I was with Maleek, and that was something that I constantly and he brought it to my attention to would like. I was talking on my podcast as if I was single because I didn't want people to know I was in a relationship because I was. I was trying not to hurt him, but I was acting like I was single. And then I was going through these phases where, like, I wouldn't let him come to my house. Yeah, I wouldn't let him, you know what I mean? Like, I needed a break. I needed to him to go to his house. I go to my house, like, stop saying over the night. But I think it's good that you know that to now. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm at that place to where I feel like I. I never valued the space as much as I do now. I don't have someone that I have to answer to or that can question me about where I am, what I'm doing, things like that like you. You take all that for granted when you don't have that, like once you have it, it's like, Wow, it's overwhelming. I don't want to go back to that place where now I have to answer to anybody or I have to have, you know, somebody next to me at all times. I do enjoy my space like this. So kind of proud of Isaac because I don't ever want him to be in relationships like I've been in him loving his personal space at this young age of 13. I'm like, I actually am very proud of him because you have to be learned to be comfortable by yourself before you could ever learn to be comfortable with someone else. Yeah, and I think that's good. You know, as a mom, you want that for your kid. You don't want them to make the decisions the way that you made decisions. You want them to learn from your decisions and kind of grow up to be. Yeah, I think a lot of people think that I'm damaging my kids, which I'm sure in some ways it's not damaging their kids. My kids are going to have some trauma. They are, but that's just inevitable. But I do think that I do a good job like my kids. See that I am so happy by myself that I hope that they learn that. Yeah. And it sounds like Isaac already has. Yeah, also, I think and I have conversations about, you know, things that I go through and where I could do better and things like that, and to Lincoln to like, I am very open and honest about things, but I do. I agree to their level of understanding. Yeah, but also. I am leading by example in some ways, by what not to do. Yeah, but my kids are so smart they get that. Yeah. And so, yeah, they're going to have some trauma. I feel like that's natural, though, like any human learns from their parents and decides either they want to live the same way or they want to live differently or like, I like the way that my parents did this. But I don't like the way they did that. Exactly. So you're you're molding kids and they're learning from you, whether it be negative or positive. Please don't take this as like I'm condoning traumatizing your children. No, that's not what I'm saying. I will be in those therapy sessions acknowledging what I've done. But anyway, I want to move on to the last segment of this episode, which is dating profiles. Oh my gosh. So I'm going to read you some dating profiles that Kristen picked out for us. Oh my gosh. This is a good one to start. This is John. His name is. His name is John. He's 41. He's tagged as the recovering problem child. Oh, that's his app. OK. It says he's a lead engineer and he lives in Rochester. So if anyone lives in Rochester, here you can. John John, he says he's six foot. Oh, loves music, sports and the great outdoors. OK, so it's looks like it, says classic enthusiast outdoor outdoor. So I don't know. It's circled in red, so I can't really see. OK, specifically no single moms. OK. If you were a catch, he wouldn't have left you in the kids behind. Are you serious? What if he wasn't a catch? What if I was aloha tattooed under his now, John? Goodbye. You, first of all, you're 41 with aloha tattooed under your eye. Do you have kids, though, Emily? Nobody's having kids with this price tag. Yeah. How do you know that? I'm not a catch because I'm single. But if I choose the wrong man here, I choose the wrong then and I leave them and I leave. That baby never left me. Exactly. Never left me. Let's be clear. So like, it's not me. That's not the catch. Jordan was trying to take me back after I cheated on him. I left him. Yeah, same for the rest of them. Yeah. So let's not go there. How? But I mean, if he doesn't want single moms, that's one thing to say. You don't want anybody with kids. Just say, but don't say that you're not a catch because you're a single mom. f**k you. I've seen some bad a*s single moms. Absolutely some to be. The single moms are better than the ones that are in f**king relationships. Absolutely, because I know a lot of men that absolutely love single moms and love. We have values. They have no problem. I'm telling you right now, ladies, do not worry about your something because they do not care. I've had four kids. They do not. They do not care. They just look, I got three baby daddies and they don't care. They do not. They do not care. Trust me, the next one is Alex, 24. I'm assuming this is a man, but I don't know. For two years. It looks like it's Tinder, and I'm not sure I can. Alex is a unisex name, so it could be a male could be female pro. Not afraid, not afraid of spiders. Con afraid of moths, moths, moths. OK, pro can cook con. We'll try to get you to do the dishes. I mean, that's not bad if you're going to cook. I mean, I really love the sense of humor right here because it's like pros and cons. We all have them. Pro can probably outrank you. I don't know about that. One can probably actually can't. But we'll try our pro. Really cuddly. OK, con lacks personal space. Went to sleep. Oh no. Again, I like my space. Yeah. Pro loves animals. OK, con may steal your pets. Steal. Honestly, just take. Just take them because there are a lot of responsibility, and my cat and my cats have a lot of litter boxes that we've got to change. So just take off them. I really there are a lot of work regretting it anyway, SimpliSafeing Pro has a good sense of humor. OK, con none. Because I'm funny. We love our funny. We love the guy and Alex. Alex is a good f**king where does it? Where is she? You don't know. There's no location. No, I think I'm going to start going on Hinge or Tinder and looking in our area for these people with funny. Please do so. We could do the ones in Dover because I really and then we might even be able to get one to come on your podcast if they're actually this one is really good. Like maybe a segment like why did you write that one of your profile? Yeah, why? Why? Why? Because this is great. This not. Is this is that one goal? Yeah. 10 out of 10 stars for absolutely. I would definitely get to me, Alex, for sure. OK, so Amanda, I'm assuming this is a woman. Twenty five. OK. I'm not sure what's going on here. I have the simplest taste. I'm always satisfied with the best. Oh, working with M&A, M&A, I don't know what that means. Me neither. Five stars and alpha female. Oh, OK, that's from a guy friend. These are ratings, actually. Oh, these are ratings, OK? Wait, so somebody said so these are ratings star ratings from people that know her? Yeah. So the first one was five stars, an alpha female from a guy friend. Mm-Hmm. The next one is one star blonde snob. That's a homeless man in NYC. Five stars make super crispy bacon and great pancakes. That's right. Her brother, o her brother. Yeah. Two stars from a female friend, she says, has too much energy in the morning. Oh yeah, that's definitely don't talk to me in the morning. I need a solid hour to chill before you even talk to me. One star from a guy at the gym. Bad at lifting. That's what says. Quote one star for being bad at five stars. Great friend from another friend. OK, and then one star. Stop staring at me, woman. Random dog. Honestly, 10 out of 10 for a profile. I also we should hook up Amanda and Alex. Yeah, we should. We should hook them. And I kind of want to get my friends to give me stars. That's amazing. I love it. I love it. Actually, yeah, I had my friends send me ratings for TikTok. I had them send me like my type, and it was absolutely hysterical. So I think I love you. I agree. I agree with you for my dating profile. The next one, I'm assuming this is Tinder. What has the fire and then the diamond? I don't know. There's like. This situation up there, I have no idea, OK? I don't know. So this is I've checked out Hinge and Bumble, and I don't recall seeing them either. So this is probably Tinder, probably Tinder. Yeah. I don't know if I'm pronouncing her name right. Emily Emily. How is it spelled? A. E with an accent? Lee O'Malley, maybe O'Malley. O'Malley. OK. She's 18. Her bio says first of all, her picture is very cute 18 years old on a dating site, though I feel like that's kind of scary. Yeah. That's like, you're still a baby. And so pedophiles are real. But like when I was 18, I had no problem dating, so I thought, like 20 23. Dating was an issue because I'm a 37 think, 37 year old single mom right in the dating scene. Bad for 18 year olds. Right now, I'm just scared for her. That's all because pedophiles are rampant. That's running rampant. OK, so her profile says on our first date, I'll carve our names in a tree. It's the most romantic way to let you know I have knives. Oh, it gets. Coming after her, so she said, I'm not scared to meet you because I carry the night, I carry an ice bucket. Try it if you want, if you want. Katherine is 28 University of King's College. I hope you like bad girls because I'm literally bad at everything, just passing through from Calgary for the holidays. Say hi, unless you're my ex in that case. f**k off, David. It's never happened. Much love it. f**k off all the bleep. It's never happening. Never. Those are the dating profiles that as follows. We're ten out of ten. I like totally. I'm jealous of people because I wish I was funny. Like, I feel like I am funny when I have a conversation. But like if I try to set up a dating profile, I don't know what I would say. No, we're going to make a combination of these. Like, Should you have a friend make it for you? Because like, it's really awkward talking about yourself, don't you think or not? So I. I didn't date him. I talked to this guy and it was a I was in a very weird place in my life and everything. When are you not in a weird space in your life? Just like it was a different kind of weird. I constantly felt like I was talking about myself, and I still think about it to this day because I'm so. Yes, you lose sleep over. I do, because I'm like, Why was I like that? Like talking about like, it was kind of like the guy that you described to me that you talked to on the phone the other day. And that's I was kind of like a Debbie Downer. I was always complaining, always talking about myself. He would come up with solutions and I would be not solution oriented, like you were in like one of those. Now it's kind of like a one up or where if you have a story and then that person is like, Oh yeah, me too. And mine's way worse. Like, kind of like that. I only do that. Like if I'm trying to relate to the person, I don't try to do that to make it about myself. I'm just trying to like, say, I relate. I can understand how I am too, and I do. But at that time in my life, I was a one off and it was only with him. That's so weird. Not with anybody else. How old were you? Roughly when? Because I feel like that maybe it was just 25, so maybe you were just going through like a lie at that time and you just needed someone to listen. Yeah. Like, I don't even want you to give me up this. I just want to be like, don't even be solution oriented, cause I'm not looking for a just say, wow. Yeah. Like, literally listen in and be like, Dang, sorry to hear that. Or just honestly, if he would have told me to do better and stop being so f**king miserable, I probably would have actually been like, Oh, wow, you're right, you're right. I am miserable. I wasn't miserable at the time. Anyway, I actually really loved these dating. I think that was my favorite segment of these dating profiles because they were funny. They were funny. Yeah, OK. Well, I'm so glad you finally came on the podcast. And if you guys want more of Emily, let me know and we'll talk to you all next week. Bye. Wow. All month long on Pluto TV's stream, the biggest Tyler Perry movies, free. Watch your favorites like Madea's Witness Protection and Madea's Big Happy Family. Joy Tyler Perry as he goes on a couples retreat with Sharon Leal in Why Did I Get Married? 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