Transcript
So one thing I want to say, everyone before this episode starts is there's really horrific, gruesome details of murder, of murder of children. So please. Immense trigger warning. Listen. Really? At your own caution. Good morning. Well, well, well, charmer, today is a dark day for pop apologist because we are deep diving, really one of the most horrific crimes that I think has happened. I think this is kind of Andrea Yates level, who I believe that was her name. She's a woman who drowned her five kids in their bathtub. Oh gosh. Yeah. So there are these crimes that seem to happen like once a decade that just riveted the nation that captures our attention because not only is it, you know, a murder, but it's that between a mother or a father and their children, right? Something particularly chilling to me about homicide between a mother and their children as well. It just seems to go against the universe and biological facts. And yeah, it just I mean, not to say that the other homicide doesn't, but it's especially senseless. We expect so little from men, you know? So honestly, I didn't want to say it. Thank God. OK, so anyway, yes, we're getting into the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell saga and the deaths of so many people actually Tammy Daybell, JJ, Lori's son, as well as her daughter Tylee, and then the death of Charles Vallow and the death of Joseph Ryan and Alex Cox. So it's a lot of people, it's a lot of names. And to be totally honest with you, I was not one of the people following this case intensely, only because it was all kind of a little confusing to me. And I guess I don't know. I'm not always the first person to be following a current true crime situation. Yeah, development after development. Were you confused by this case at all or did it seem pretty straightforward to you? I think it's easier for me to grasp certain things than it is for you. But no, I think it's this case is confusing because it involves a mother, her boyfriend or maybe new husband, her ex-husband and her kids. And I feel like it's just not like mom, dad, their nuclear family type of situation. So it was always like confusing, like, wait, who are they talking about? Or are they talking about her husband or her ex-husband, our current boyfriend? Right? And like one of the kids is adopted, who is the other kid, right? The family tree gets a little confusing insight. Many shows. I think as well. And you're going to you're going to correct me if I'm wrong because you're the expert on this but doesn't like take place over several months. And like, you know, there's a lot of little things that start to happen, like in Idaho and Arizona and California or something, right? In Hawaii, too. It's all over the map. So all lead us through it. And I'm just going to tell everyone, you know, wipe your slate clean. I'm just going to take you from the beginning. Mm-Hmm. And we're going to let this story unfold and hopefully get more clear manner. So we all have an idea of what exactly went down. Lauren, thank you so much for doing this, for letting us through. Yeah, let's get into it. OK, so Lori Vallow is born Lori Noreen Cox in San Bernardino, California, on June 26, 1972. And as an adult, she seems to be just a not a very nice mom. She wins the title of Mrs. Texas in 2004. She's a hot blonde. She also Chandler appeared as a contestant on the Wheel of Fortune. So in spite of the small town glamour of winning Miss Texas and being on Wheel of Fortune, that seems to be really all that's bright and shiny in Lori's world. It seems like she has a pretty hard time. So in 1992, she marries her high school sweetheart, Nelson Yanes. However, this marriage only lasts a few years. They get divorced, and then she marries in 1995, three years later, a guy named William Yola. They have their son, Colby together, so Colby is a main player in this case. Everyone Colby, you know, Colby is Lori's son that she raises as a single mom. So one of the things that's interesting is when you listen to Colby discuss their life, he really discusses a life of moving all the time, you know, boyfriends. And it's just kind of chaotic until her marriage to Charles Vallow. So we're going to get there in a second. So. Laurie and William have Colby together, however, they divorced just a year later in 1996. So in 2001, five years later, Lori's around. At this time, she would be about 30. She marries Joseph Ryan, and they have Tylee together. OK. OK. And then also Joseph Ryan adopts Colby. However, they divorced just three years later in 2004. So one of the things I want to talk about before we get to her next marriage is that there were allegations that Joseph Ryan sexually abused both of her children. And Colby did attest to this. And so I think that's really important to note is there's extreme instability financially and then marital ali in Lori's life. And then there's this really serious, obviously trauma with the family. And so the reason why I want to paint that picture is when Charles Vallow enters the scene, a sea change happens for Lori and her kids because she's been the single mom and things have been really tough. And then Joseph Ryan turns out to be a monster. And then Charles Vallow really comes into the picture, and Charles Vallow is this guy. He makes good money. And but beyond that and way more important than the financial stability he offers her and her children, he is a really, really good guy. Chandler, like, he loves Lori. And it's really so honestly heartbreaking because in some of the audio where he's talking about the fact that she's gone crazy later in their marriage, in their marriage, you can hear how much he still loves her and is so devastated by the fact that she has become overtaken by all of these crazy ideas and fantasies. Yeah, yeah. He converted to the LDS church for glory, and he also adopts JJ. So basically, Charles's sister and her husband have a child named JJ, and they are not in a fit state to care for this child and the child does have autism. And Charles's mother, Kay and her husband, they take JJ into their care and they love JJ. There's this really sweet moment in the Netflix documentary where Kay's husband and JJ's grandfather, he talks about having JJ on his chest when you know, and he was a baby, and he just absolutely fell in love with JJ. But however, when they adopted JJ, when they took him into, when they took him into their care, they were really older and being the parents, the active caregivers of an autistic child. That is something that's really demanding. And so another I think reason to show what a good guy Charles is, is and Laurie at this time. They see this and they say, Hey, we want to have a baby together. We want to, you know, be parents of a child together as well. So we'll take J.J. into our care, will take care of him. Obviously, they're much younger and just much more in a stage of life where they could give JJ the support he really needed. So they take JJ into their care. And so Charles and Lori then have three kids under their wing. They have Colby, who Laurie had a long time ago with her second husband, and then they have Tylee, who Lori had with her third husband. And then they now have adopted JJ together. So one thing that Colby says is that Charles is really such a good dad to him, and he really is this very stable force. He joins the church for four Lori, and he does, you know, he really kind of provides her with this amazing life. They moved to Hawaii together, and I guess this is a place that they had always wanted to live. They get to do all these sports that they love and, you know, be in a tropical paradise. They eventually move back to the states because of Charles's work, but Laurie's life has really turned around, right? She has stability. She has financial stability. And everything is great. Yeah. Unfortunately, Chandler, though, things start to fray when Lori gets obsessed with this kind of end of the world doomsday LDS, you know, fringe LDS circles. So I don't know if you remember this, but in 2013 ish, there was a lot of talk about end of days amongst fringe, you know, LDS people who were a part of this community. And one thing I want to say is this was fringe, but it was it that fringe like, I know plenty of people who got caught up in this whole scene who got really intense on, you know, at the end of days were coming that there was going to be a crazy earthquake. There was a woman named Julie Roe, who claimed to be a prophetess of sorts. And she claimed that the world is going to end on a specific date. I believe in 2019. And you know, it was just people were overtaken people. People literally cashed out their retirements to buy all sorts of supplies for the end of days. Like there, there could be an entire other episode done on really the tragedy and wreckage that happened when people started believing this woman named Julie Roe and they mortgage their homes. They really compromised their financial futures because they really thought that the end of the world was approaching swiftly and they needed to prepare. I think the other thing that's interesting about it is that for those who are listening who are not Mormon or don't, you know, understand like the LDS church or like the way this might have played out there is like a sitting prophet of the LDS church and other like church leaders who are, you know, or the people who receive revelation from God. You know, for the people who are, you know, within the church. And I think what was really interesting about this moment is that all of a sudden there were these fringe people who were claiming to kind of be receiving revelation about when and of times were coming and when, you know, like basically when the second coming was going to happen. You know, aside from the prophet and they were these people were not like, you know, recognize church leaders. These were fringe people who had almost started like a cult following themselves within the church. Well, and I think that another thing I want to kind of layer that with is that the LDS church doctrine really supports the idea of personal revelation and a direct relationship with God. And so this isn't something where I would say that people were in the church and in the LDS church, and they just kind of got this whacky idea. The the really the basis of the church is one of direct revelation of being able to, you know, if you are spiritual enough, have these kind of revelations, maybe not apocalyptic revelations for the entire world, but personal discernment, personal revelations by your own life. And so it isn't actually that far of a reach for things like this to happen. And, you know, little fringe groups and and I don't think this is the first time this has happened and it won't be the last show. Right, right. Wow. OK. Mark your words. Well, you know that when that's the culture, obviously, it kind of paves the way for people to have these divine experiences in their mind. And then charismatic people who can convey that message can gain a following. But right? Anyway, so let's set the stage where Chad Daybell and Lori Connect. So Chad Daybell is, for all intents and purposes, a Idaho dad. He lives in Rexburg, and he is also this small-time publisher who starts a publishing company. And he's also a prolific writer, Chandler. So he is a prolific writer of End of Times apocalyptic fiction and then also sharing his experiences of near-death experiences and his own prophecies. So you want to hear some of the books that he's written, Chandler? Sure. OK, so Chad Daybell is the author of a book called Living on the Edge of Heaven, The Great Gathering, The Rise of Zion, Evading Babylon, Days of Fear, One Foot in the Grave An Errand for Emma Martial Law. OK? A lot of talk. There's always like talk of martial law, a martial law and end of days people the celestial city, the renewed Earth and chasing paradise. So this is a prolific writer. Yes. What is prolific actually mean? Does that mean just like a really good writer? No, that's a good question. It means you produce a lot. It's like Bob Dylan as a songwriter. Hundreds of songs. Thousands of. Right, right. Also like Danielle Steele, as like a romance. Exactly exactly. Prolific. So, yeah. Lori Vallow can only be described as a fangirl for Chad Daybell. Not only is Chad, there's Hot Shot publisher in this in this scene, in these post-apocalyptic, you know, fantasy world, but he is also a speaker. And Lori Daybell is a fangirl. Mm hmm. And also around this time, Lori is having her own kind of prophecies or times speaking with people from the other realms with angels. So this is a clip of Lori discussing when she was chatting with the Angel Moroni. OK. OK. Hit me with it. And for those who don't know, the Angel Moroni is the in the Book of Mormon that is who spoke with Joseph Smith, and that is the gold statue at the top of every Mormon temple. So it's pretty prevalent in the Mormon church. Yeah. This is not just any angel. OK. Would you agree, Chandler? So I would. I would say so. Yeah. Laurie really wanted a spiritual dynamo and a partner. Being attached to turtles, she felt like what's holding her back. Her beliefs have become a lot more extreme. She started telling me about how she had a personal encounter with the Angel Moroni. And he was someone that she was in communication with regularly. I have been administered to by the interior on that. I have seen I have had lots of intelligence ministry. I no longer need like this very much because I'm looking of children who are and giving me instructions on. And gear to help and others where the time is now, where you can. So that's really the state of mind law isn't OK. I mean, this like this case, is so dark and sad, but then there's also just like some layers of ridiculousness to it. I mean, it's probably inappropriate, but there's definitely a little bit of levity to the insanity that was the state of mind. Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow in terms of their delusions. So I think to like anyone listening to that who is grounded in the real world, it's like that's a called a manic episode. You don't need to sleep. Because you're having a manic episode where you are literally, you know, thinking that you're being visited by like angels, you know, night after night. I think that's like revealing to me that it wasn't like, Oh, I just had this one encounter. It's like, I can't even sleep anymore because I'm just getting visited by Angel after Angel. You know, they won't stop visiting me. Yeah, honestly. Do you have any? Do you have any Ambien? I really can't handle the angels trying to get knocked out. OK, I need them to know I have a lot of sleep debt. I'm trying to make up on. I don't know. She she clearly also seems so stoked that she's the chosen one who's getting all these visions, you know? Oh, for sure. OK, so this is another part that really plays into it. OK, so 20, it's 2017, Lori. Her entire really energy shift. She's getting all into that stuff. She's woken up constantly in night talking to angels. She is reading all Chad's books. She's very into this and Chad's energy shifts as well around this time. Maybe a little bit earlier, actually. You know, while Lori might be getting woken up constantly by angels, Chad is the one who is like the top, top guy in terms of spiritual knowingness, in terms of prophecies. So he has an entire system chamber where he says that people are either light or dark in his levels. It's a Level two, i'msorry, level one, three level two. Most people are level two so pretty dark and level six is the highest. That's like the lightest you could be. And you know, of course, he is amongst some of the lightest beings on Earth. Sure, I said. And also, this is going to you're going to be shocked by this, but so is Lori. Oh, of course. Of course, yeah. And he has the ability to know immediately whether someone is light or dark and something really disturbing, happens Chandler. The darker someone gets on the gradation scale, the closer they are to having their soul leave their body and actually having their body operated and filled with another entity, an evil spirit. And so there's a time where Chad and Lori kind of really they try to cast out evil spirits from people with kind of voodoo magic chanting, like weird prayers. All of that stuff. I just have to say all of these cults that want to essentially like, give you like a gradation scale or like a classification level. I mean, it reminds me of, like Scientology, we have to climb all the ladders before you can go clear, right? It must be so exhausted to come up with this, like exhausted for lack of a better word like classification system. You know where you can literally, like, always be giving people something like some way to like, put people back down and remind them that they actually have so much more work to do before they're ever going to be like, good enough. You know, a tiered system, Chandler. I think that from a psychological standpoint, it's really motivating for people. They don't want that green begin or Sash and Nexium. They want to get to the white sash. They want to be a prefect. Mm hmm. Right. It's a story of progress, of eternal progress. I'll just say, I guess, you know, if I'm being honest with myself, I'm actually also on this tiered progression in corporate America. So corporate America and religious cults, you're doing something right? Exactly, exactly. Chad and Laurie meet in twenty eighteen, and they are just twin flames, you could say twin flames of destruction. So Laurie gets affiliated with this group preparing a people, and it is just the the extreme of the extreme prepper people seen Chan. I just have to tell you, I woke up in the middle of the night last night with a little bit of anxiety. I had half an early bird gummy and I swear to you within 30 minutes, I was peacefully dozing off. Early bird CBD gummies are magic. They're truly magic. They are literally magic. I don't want to travel without them. I don't want to be without them. I think it's the twelve point five milligrams of CBD, two point five milligrams of THC. It's that little c**ktail. It gives you the warmest Julius fuzzy best feeling. It feels so good. It's so light. Also, one bottle last so long, it's a lot of product. Also, I feel like I prefer it to drinking at this point. Absolutely. You guys go to Earlybird CBD. Com Use Code Pop Apologists 20 for 20 percent off your order. You will not regret it. Earlybird CBD Icon Use Code Pop Apologist 20 And she's always talking about signs of the times and that the second coming of Jesus Christ is swiftly approaching and that global calamities are nigh at hand. So Chad and Laurie meet in 2018, one of at like a conference, an event for this preparing a people group. So let's listen to a little clip about their first meeting. OK, cause he was selling his books. All right. Went up to the table. That's when they got to me. She talked to him a lot, and that's a lot of questions. She was very interested in what he thought. He was interested in what she knew. And so they started to kind of develop that connection right there and share with her when they met that they had been married multiple times apart. Not right now to survive and multiple lives and things of that nature that was established when they first met. Yes, so Chad, claim to have lived 31 times before. Laurie, 21 times before, but both respectively, only five times on planet Earth. The other times took place on other planets. So it's like I thought I had done mushrooms a few times, but damn, I need to get high on their supply. That's for sure. OK. OK. So on November 26 of 2018, Lori and Chad appear on a podcast together called Time to Warrior Up Chandler. Oh Lord ! Another podcast competing with us? Well, yeah, seriously, this was the antithesis of WorkSafe. This was time to warrior up Chad and Lori, so their connection is based on all these shared crazy beliefs. They also believe, Chandler, that once a person gets so dark that they become a zombie. This is where their soul has left their body, and it's replaced by a dark spirit. OK, so as you could imagine, Chandler, if Ben was appearing on a podcast called Time to Warrior Up and if he was interrupted by angels constantly at night, he was captured by a lot of religious fantasies and delusions. You might be a little concerned, okay, especially if you had three children with him. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So Charles Vallow Chandler is worried about his wife in January 2019 because she she had told him she was a translated being who cannot taste death. She was sent by God to lead the one hundred and forty four thousand into the millennium. Do you want to give some context on that number? The number one hundred and forty four thousand, it's it's a number prevalent in whatever other religion as our seventh, seventh Jehovah's Witness or Joe was witnesses. Yes, they believe, yeah, I'm going to believe 4000. So I'm guessing I don't know, but I'm guessing that there's actually in the Bible, the words one hundred and forty four thousand people will like to happen. Yeah, OK. So he. So Charles, he's concerned about his wife, and he calls the Arizona police, and he tells them how his wife has become unhinged. And he says that she has threatened to murder him if he gets in the way of her mission. And at this point, Charles is intent on getting Lori into a 72 hour psychic evaluation. Wow. So we're going to listen to Charles Vallow talking to the police. So what's going on tonight? I can't get my husband on our kids. How old are your kids? Six and a half and 16. Okay. I'm pretty sure wants to run through to say we're LDS. She thinks she's resurrected being an adult for God. And Amber hundred forty thousands has come to Jesus coming next year. She took all the money out of a bank account. My truck is going to the airport to the airport and got it. So what makes her a danger to herself in the other direction they learn to make Britain a murderer? Yes. How did she do that? She said. I can murder you. I can murder. And she's talking in the Syracuse spiritual, you know, she talks. And physically, I will kill you because you're not. Nobody will care. So she she at this point doesn't think you are supposed to take some Schnyder treatment. Charlotte had no idea. She used to know where it came from. Yeah. So Nick Schneider is the dark spirit that once Lori and Chad have decided that Charles was a zombie, they said his body is actually filled with a new entity called Nick Schneider. And Nick Schneider was not long for this world chiller, but it's literally not funny at all. It's not funny at all. It's not funny at all. I think it's just what I'm laughing at is the name. It's really the name that she's chosen and that just like, it's like, it's like they literally went to like the end credits of like some random movie to find like this new entity's name. But anyway, it's not that nothing is funny about this other than the name that they've chosen. Well, it's interesting because at this time, and it's really a wild coincidence. But Chad Daybell's wife, Tammy, OK, college sweetheart. She had become a zombie named Viola. So it's really disturbing what is happening to these people. But this is Laurie talking to her friend, talking about Charles becoming Nick Schneider. OK? Ari had expressed to me that her husband, Charles, was already dead and that there was a demon living inside of him and that she was going to get a car and using the demon who was now using Charles's body as a host would be dead. She basically said they were just waiting for this demon to die, and the name she gave me was dead spider. She told me that she's told other people next, she said. Nick Ned, it wasn't good. So I just want to say it's extremely creative to decide you want to have an affair with someone and then decide that the people you're currently married to have become zombies, that they're already dead and that, you know, literally that someone else occupies their body. It's just, you know, it fully makes sense. It's like, I'm not even married to my husband anymore because he's already died. Are you? I mean, was like, sleep with Nick next time in my head. Right, right. And I think I think one of the key questions at the crux of this case is whether Lori and Chad actually believed all of this, or whether this was kind of this convenient delusions, you know, things that they were willfully conjuring in order to conveniently have their affair. And in order to really kind of get all the people out of their way, including their children and spouses, so that they could be together. So in July 2019, Charles Vallow goes to the house where Lori was living and he was going to drop off their son, JJ, at school, and this was an expected visit. So when he goes inside the home, Charles is shot by Lori's brother, Alex Cox. So Alex tells the police that Lori and Charles had gotten into a fight and that he was protecting his sister and shot Charles in self-defense. He says that Charles had hit him with a baseball bat. Whoa. Yes. And so this is how Charles meets his. And ultimately, and it's really, really horrible. And there's nothing funny or no jokes to be cracked about this. For all we know, Charles was a really good guy, and he literally was murdered by his, you know, religious freak of a sister and her brother. OK, so one of the interesting things about Alex Cox is Lori and Chad had convinced him that he was a modern day porter. Rockwell Porter Rockwell was a Mormon historical figure who was a bodyguard, marshall and possible murderer for the Prophet Joseph Smith. So anyway, they convince him that he's this historical figure. So Charles is shot by Alex Modern Day Porter Rockwell bodyguard for Chad and Lori, and the police believe his story that it was in self-defense because he does have this kind of like he is kind of bleeding from the back of his head. And, you know, it's all very fishy, though it's all very, very fishy because Charles Vallow actually used to be a professional baseball player if he had really hit Alex Cox on the back of a head with a bat. He probably could have done a lot more damage than just this little abrasion that Alex had. But anyway, police believe his story that is self-defense and Charles Vallow is, you know, put to rest and no charges are filed at this time. Lori is like, it's very disturbing to hear talking to the police because she's basically like, Oh yeah, we've only lived here for a few weeks. Hi, yes. Kind of crazy. I've seen this. I've seen this video it's very weird. She texts her. She texts Charles's sons, saying, Hey, your dad's dead, basically. And she is very curt with them. Very short with them. Just doesn't. She doesn't give them any explanation. So it's all very, very, very, very suspicious. So at the same time, Chad and Lori are fully having an affair. Their texts are written basically like a poorly written romance novel. Chad begins a story, a novel about James and Elena. He says that this is the story of Chad and Lori. And anyway, he talks about, you know, James is obsessed with Elena, which is, you know, Chad being obsessed with Lori and her clothing and her appearance, and that she's an exalted goddess who had come to Earth to perform a special mission. Part of that mission was Elena being with James. They refer to each other as James and Elena and their text messages. So it's all extremely cheesy and corny and horrific ultimately. So in August 2019, things are, you know, really entering a fever pitch, and Lori moves to Rexburg to be near Chad. Wow. So she relocates with her kids to Rexburg and also her brother, Alex Cox. Her modern day Puerto Rockwell moves into her same apartment complex in Rexburg. So in September, they go to Yellowstone National Park, and this is the last known sighting of Tylee. And unfortunately, Melanie Gibb, who is one of Lori's really close friends at this time. She's also in these crazy end of days circles. So Lori can confirm. And her, frankly, so Laurie tells Melanie that Tylee had become a zombie on September 9th, so if you remember just the day before they go to Yellowstone, Tylee has disappeared and investigators say that Alex Cox is cell phone. GPS placed him in Chad Daybell's backyard on the property for about two hours and about 40 minutes after leaving the property. Chad Daybell texts his wife, Tammy, the following text, and he and Chad Daybell says, I spotted a big racc**n along the fence. I hurried and got my gun and he was still walking along. I got close enough that one shot did the trick. He is now in our pet cemetery. Fun times. So clearly, Tylee has been murdered and they have buried her in the pet cemetery. And you know, when Tammy, Chad's wife, sees, you know, some fresh dirt in the pet cemetery. Chad doesn't want any questions being asked, so he creates the story about a racc**n. So one thing that's discovered in the trial is that Tyler's DNA is found on a shovel and a pickaxe, and her remains were buried in a shallow grave in Chad Daybell's pet cemetery. And her remains were also burned. So cause of death, I think, is really hard for them to find because her remains were found, both dismembered and burned. And it's just it's beyond gruesome. It's so unbelievably horrific to be in this frame of mind or you even commit this horrendous act and then you take something like that the lie to your wife like the delusion, the insanity that had gripped these people. You know, there's a lot that we can really take away from this case. But it's not just how horrible Laurean Chad are, because I think we would be foolish to just take that as the take away. I think we always need to look at stories like this and see, OK, this is the fallibility of the human mind. People can be pushed to crazy thoughts. People can think insane beliefs, beliefs that drive them to do things that at another point in their life, they would have never thought possible. I mean, there's a story of Abraham and Isaac in the Bible, where he goes to sacrifice his son in the name of God. This is a faith affirming story that's told with a religious, you know, kind of fervor and positivity. You know, when you're growing up Christian and Mormon. And so I think that it's really important to kind of make clear that I don't think this is something that only Chad and Lori would have been susceptible to. Well, yeah, I I totally hear you. I think, yeah, there's there's a huge religious like. Element to all of this, but I think that most religious people are not like this. Of course not, but it's like the Stanford prison experiment. Like otherwise, normal people under crazy circumstances do crazy things and you just don't know where your mind can take you. I think you can literally you become mentally ill, you can be anyone can become mentally ill and that can beat your mental illness can be applied to your religious fervor. Exactly. And gripped by delusions. And so it is really, really scary. And I think it's a cautionary. It's a cautionary tale. I mean, Lori Vallow had no history of psychosis of, you know, of being anything but honestly a loving mother and devoted spouse before she got caught in the grips of all of these fantasies. So anyway, but let's let's keep going. So in September 22, a few weeks after we know that Tylee was murdered, JJ is last seen by Melanie GEB, Melanie and her boyfriend. And at that time, Lori told Melanie that JJ was being a zombie and can no longer be seen after, you know, Melanie had asked to see him again. And so obviously we don't for sure know when exactly JJ was murdered, but he was last seen on September 22nd. And then Chandler on October 5th. A few weeks later, Chad texted Lori with big news. So this is what he texted her. Mm hmm. Hello, sweet angel. Big news about Tammy. This is his wife. Please let me know when you're awake and can talk. I love you. So the news that Chad had to share with Lori was that Tammy had become a zombie, a demonic entity, and her body was now filled with a demon named Viola. So Chad claimed that Tammy's personality was changing quickly because of the spirit attaching itself to her. And then, Chad also says not fully sure of the timing of removal, but once her actions verify the difference. I don't want to wait. Oh my gosh. So Chad also tells his friend, Julie Rowe, who's like, basically the biggest celebrity in this entire post-apocalyptic scene. Fringe Aldea seen and as the weeks leading up to Tammy's death that he had visions of his wife, Tammy's death, and that an angel told him that his wife would be dying soon. So, OK, just a few weeks later, on October 19th, 2019, the otherwise healthy 49 year old Tammy is found dead in her home. From what authorities had determined were otherwise natural causes, the couple's son, Garth Daybell, calls the police. He is the one who says that Tammy died in her bed and her kids declined an autopsy. As the coroner says that on a first look, Tammy's death appeared to be from natural causes. The kids say that they believe that their mom's health was, you know, somewhat poor before her death. And Chad conveniently has a life insurance policy for four hundred and thirty k on Tammy. I think it's clear is that Chad's kids really had no idea what Chad was up to, and that's probably the reason why no autopsy was requested. Her body has since been exhumed and an autopsy has been performed, and they have found that her cause of death was X fixation. So yeah, it's I think for me, what's so confusing here is, well, how does someone who's seemingly healthy die of natural causes, someone who's young and healthy? Like, that's where it's like white people just don't die in their sleep in their forties? Yeah, that part honestly is still opaque to me, so I don't really have an answer to that. I think that it's it's very confusing. I just will say really quick, I'm sure to. If your dad is like, I feel like the kids would probably like, take their dad's lead in that situation, you know? Yeah, yeah, 100 percent. And I think that I don't know. Maybe the kids thought 4:09 was actually pretty old in their mind, and maybe this just did happen. I don't know. It's clear, though, that Lori and Chad, they are not worried about it because they are Chandler. Roughly two weeks later, Lori and Chad are married on a beach in Hawaii. So this is six weeks since JJ entirely had been seen and one of the things that comes out in the trial. So this is extremely, extremely gruesome what I'm about to share, but I think it's important to explain what had happened to JJ. We know what happened to Tylee. They found the remains of JJ, of course, and the cause of death was extrication. And it's just like it's beyond to even describe. But he he was, you know, wrapped in plastic with duct tape duct tape over. Or his mouth duct tape over his arms, his head and execution. So it's. Yeah, buried in the pet cemetery. So I think it's one of those horrifying things to think about. You know, both our children murdered in gruesome ways. Buried in ways that are just so undignified in a pet cemetery. In a shallow grave in Chad's backyard. And then Chad and Lori, like like, nothing has ever happened with no care in the world or getting married on a beach, dancing on a beach. Yeah, it's it's beyond comprehension. And it is, like you said, like one of these crimes, or it's like once a decade where you're just like, it rocks you to your car because you just don't understand how people can be this evil, how you can go from being a sane person with two feet on the Earth to being completely demonic. Yeah, it really does. I mean, for all my talk of like, who knows what the human mind is capable of, you know? No, you know, it's for all my talk of that. I still it is. It really defies my own logic and imagination to to truly understand how anyone could ever do anything like this, right? If the one thing I will say is, I do think that I do think that they were buried in the pet cemetery because I really do believe that Lori and Chad did did think that the second coming was coming and that they would lead everyone in Rexburg. They would be at the top of the 144 thousand in Rexburg, Idaho, with Jesus Christ. And there is a part of me that wonders did they think their children would be resurrected? And that's why they didn't go bury them off in the boonies in Idaho, where they maybe would have taken years to find their body? Like what if they wanted their body nearby for when they were resurrected? That's kind of one of my theories was entirely like cremated or like, wasn't she like, you know, her remains burned? Like, I think that that justifies that to me a little bit like, you know, I know I just think that if they were really trying to get away with the murder, they would have taken the remains elsewhere. Right. They would have hidden the remains to keep to bury them on the property. That tells me that they thought the world is probably ending in a matter of months and that this was all going to go down really quickly. So who knows? But what we do know is that so JJ's grandmother, a few weeks later, she is just like at her wit's end. She calls the police asking for a welfare check on JJ, as no one has seen or heard from him in months. So Rexburg police go to Lori's house searching for JJ, and Lori lies to them, claiming JJ was safe and staying with in Arizona with her friend Melanie at first. Melanie is not forthcoming about the whereabouts of JJ to police, and this is some recording of Melanie talking with Lori on the phone. You know, really questioning why Lori had asked her to lie to police. So one thing to note is that Melanie, at first she's loyal to Lori because she's part of this crazy fringe group where she thinks Laurean, Chad or, like, you know, the exalted prophet and prophetess. And then she turns and realizes that it's all a bunch of bulls**t and that Lori is actually like, succumb to some, you know, pretty evil s**t. So this is Lori on the phone with Melanie. I was wondering why you call the police, why she was with me. I just need somebody that I can really want to ask JJ saying, You're happy to hear me now. I don't know why you're on this ground. I don't. I appreciate those words. But if you really love me when the police that I have changed you and me, that's not. That's not what a friend you know me now. You know, we just stand by as much as, you know. OK, so a nationwide search is launched for the missing children and Laurean child, though they don't take part in it. Instead, they go back to Hawaii, where they look for a place to live. They file an application for a lease where they put that they have no children. So this is the time. This is the time when the sheriff's department gets gets very suspicious about Tammy's death and they exhume Tammi and do the autopsy. So this is also the time when Alex Alex Cox, the brother of Lori, he starts expressing concerns that he thinks that he's going to become the fall guy for Chad and Lori. Mm hmm. Interesting. Mm hmm. And this is a woman who had recently met and married Alex. A bunch of people got married around this time because again, this huge community believe that the end times was like weeks away and that they needed to be married. So while Chad and Laura in Hawaii, they exude Tammy. This is all in December and then Lori's brother, Alex Cox, that modern day Puerto Rock Rockwell, he dies in Arizona. It was determined that he actually did die of natural causes from blood clots in the arteries of his lungs. So he, just like randomly dies, so he does randomly die. Yes. Wow. And then on December 20th, 2019, after, you know, Lori fails to produce her children under court order, the Rexburg police declare JJ entirely missing persons and say that Vallow and Daybell, Lori and Chad are persons of interest. On December 27th, Julie Roe tells a news station that Chad Daybell had a vision that Tammy would die. And then on January 25th, 2020, authorities served Lori Vallow Daybell, an order requiring her to produce her children within five days on January 26. They served Chad and Lori search warrants in Hawaii. So in February, after failing to comply with the court orders and produce the children, Lori is arrested in Hawaii and extradited to Idaho. So June 9th of 2020, the Rexburg Police Department, that's when they found the human remains in Chad's backyard, and it's confirmed to be that of JJ entirely. So here is a recording of Chad telling Lori that they are on the property at this time. Lori is in jail. Chad is not. But this is Chad telling Lori that the police are searching his property for you to correct the search. All right, so Chad is then arrested after they find the remains and charged with two felony counts of destruction, alteration and concealment of evidence. And one of the craziest things about this case is that to this day, Chad and Lori, neither has turned on the other. They've remained completely loyal to each other. Their cases have been severed, so there are going to be tried separately. That was determined in order to make, I guess, at a fair trial. Also, the trial's not being broadcast, so it's only you can only listen to audio of the trial. And another interesting thing is that Chad Daybell's children still believe in his innocence, and they think their dad was framed by Alex and Lori. Oh, interesting. OK, so a few really interesting things that have come out in the trial. The medical examiner found that not only did Tammy die of asphyxia, but there are bruises around her arms and arms and chest, indicating that she was restrained before she died. And then also, lots of details have come out about the specifics of the religious beliefs of Chad and Lori, including a suffocating or burning a body would prevent dark spirits from reentering that body. So I want to leave off this episode with a recording of Lori's sister talking to Lori while she's in prison. OK? About the specifics of the death. You know, and I think that it's important to listen to this audio because it's clearly the audio of a grief stricken aunt. And this is really kind of, I think, will bring home the gravity of what has occurred. Is there another explanation here? Absolutely. But I can't talk about it. You know, you wind up you are you overdosing on the. You have to understand that they don't understand they want to. You are really do, and you be looking into doing this to. You know, that's what I thought. I still do. And you ever feel like a piece of trash that I don't know what you see have it? That's correct. Please consider that she has lied and deceived and then you have been deceived and that this is not what you think it is. There is nothing OK about it. Like nothing. You didn't kill me. And I think you do too doivent. And the other which to me is a very obvious subject and you need to do it. So people. Please consider you see that it's not like there's nothing good, this is not a test for you. So I think we should just leave it there. I like I'm. I'm emotional. It's like, Yeah, it's absolutely horrifying. And I just want I want to also say that, you know, I think so much focus has been put on JJ and Tylee. And obviously, you know, the life of children being lost is truly the most horrible who never got to have a full life at all, whose lives were cut so short. And also, Charles Vallow's life was cut, you know, short. Also, Tammy Daybell, these are other these are normal people, innocent people, innocent people who are murdered for completely innocent people who became the victims and paid the ultimate price for the religious delusions, extreme fantasies and delusions of Chad and Lori. Thank you, Lauren, for wading through all of this horrific knowledge and all these details. Appreciate the work you've done. Yeah, thank you. And we'll see you guys next week. Yeah, we'll see you next week. Bye bye. That's all for now, folks. Don't forget, give us a five star review. Hit us up on Instagram at pharmacologists, and we will see you next week. Live every Wednesday.
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