Game On! Topuria Wants Oliveira

Transcript

It's fun. Welcome to the s**t show. Things are going to get weird. Get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale Lauer. Kale Lauer. And you're listening to Barely Famous. Alright, Alice. Welcome to Verily Famous Podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. And you said this was your first podcast. Yes. This is your first podcast. I'm very excited about that. I have been so immersed into the book world that I'm so excited that you agreed to come on. I just think it's a great podcast. I listened. It's the 1st podcast I've listened to all the way through. I was hooked. I thought I I have been missing out. I'm basically an old lady trapped in a slightly younger woman's body, and, this book I've been doing all this time. This is the place to be. It's better late than never. Right? Definitely. So we're here to talk about Beautiful Ugly, your new book. And if you're gonna get this on Amazon, you're gonna have to preorder it for the next launch because it's sold out. Yes. It's out of stock. I can't believe it. It's launch day. Yes. One day in. What an amazing problem to have. What a lovely How do you feel? I'm so excited this book was so long in the making, and I loved writing this one. You know, I've written 7 I've had 7 books published now. I've written a few more that have not been published. But for it to finally be out in the world just feels like magic, and I love that readers can finally enjoy this story about Grady Green. Honestly, though, the I even if I didn't have you here today, I would have bought this book solely for the cover because the cover is stunning, and it has, like, a little a little, shimmer to it. I absolutely love it. I love the little, like, rip through here. I think it's so good. They've done such a terrific job. I love it, and I love that this is the first time I have the same cover everywhere. So the same cover in America will be in England. It's in Australia. It's in India. Everywhere, it's, the same cover coming out. So why do you know what the what the reasoning is for different covers in different countries? I asked for it to be the same cover everywhere this time because I just fell in love with it. It was designed for the American cover, and I thought it was so perfect for the book. So beautiful. So not ugly at all, actually, for for a book called Beautiful Ugly, just beautiful. And I thought it'd be fun to have the same cover everywhere this time around. And I love actually seeing all the different covers in different countries. We're in 40 countries now, and it's it's so fun. You know, a box arrives at the house, and I open it like a kid at Christmas. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Which one is this? But it's also really fun, I think, because so many readers now are on social media. Mhmm. And they'll all say, oh, no. I wish I could get this cover. I wish I could get the other other cover. Or if only I could have the British version. And this time, everyone can enjoy the same one, and we can all share and talk about the same book. There is something special too though about collecting the same book from different countries. I just never understood what the reasoning was. Or is there no rhyme or reason? They just do it. I think people just do it. I think they fall in love with a story, and they want every different edition of the same story. And and why not? It is fun seeing them all on the shelf together. I absolutely love that. And so do you get a say in how this gets, designed? Because I've talked to other authors on the podcast, and they say they have nothing to do with the cover. But you get you sort of got a say. Right? Like, you were like, I want the same thing across the board. I said I wanted the same thing this time, and I said, please, could we have foil? I think I'm secretly a magpie. I like shiny things. And, not only did they give me foil, they gave me holographic foil. Yeah. I think it's the best thing ever. I love my publishers. So it's so pretty. And there are other pretty things inside as well. I drew a map A map. When I handed the book in. Every year, I like to surprise them with something. Sometimes I have little illustrations. This year, I had a map. And, even my editor was, you know, very nice on the phone. But she said, just to clarify, you want a map at the start of a thriller? Because normally, you might find them in fantasy books. And I thought, yes. Why not? I want I want everyone to picture the Isle of Amberly. So they said yes. But then they called me back and said, we'll do it, but we'll get a professional artist to do it. So so they they still not my version. But that's okay. My version is not nearly as good as the beautiful version inside the book. So I think it was a good call. That's so funny because when my friend who you were commenting on had tab this is Emily's copy, and she tabbed it all, and she's like, if she could sign this one. She opened it, and she said, is this fantasy? And I said, I don't think so. I don't think Alice writes fantasy that I'm aware of. No. No. I no. I don't. They're all quite dark and twisty. I think I write sometimes the books are quite different from each other. Daisy Darker, for example, felt very different to this book. I think if people enjoyed rock, paper, scissors I was just about to say that. Oh, I think that's true. Like this one. I don't know if you have the same experience when you read, but sometimes, like, you'll remember the story, but maybe not always the characters' names. And so I was like, wait a minute. What so when I started reading it, I was like, okay. If, I thought maybe hen I forgot Henry's name. And I was like, wait. Is this the same cabin from rock, paper, scissors? And then with the red jacket. So I was like, hold on. So I had to go back and see, but it's not the same. But if you like rock, paper, scissors, you will love beautiful ugly. You will absolutely love it. Definitely got a few things in common. We've got Scotland again. Yep. We've got it's about a writer again who disappears to to Scotland. And, of course, there's there's a dog. And I always feel very sorry for my mother-in-law who is one of my number one fans because I keep writing about unhappy marriages, and I'm actually very happily married. But when when I write about authors who have a black Labrador, and I have a black Labrador, who go to Scotland to write, and I go to Scotland to write. Right. I know that as soon as it's UK publication day, she'll be on the phone saying, is my son okay? So so, yes, it's always it's always fun when people think, is she the character in this book? But no. I'm not. I'm not Grady Green. But maybe some parts of you are in the characters? Oh, yes. There are definitely a few bits of me sprinkled between the pages in this one in a way that I almost didn't realize when I was writing it. Yeah. And it was actually only when we were doing the audiobook Mhmm. Which came so much later after the edits. A few months had gone by. I was working on another book by then. And I was listening to Richard Armitage narrate the audiobook, and he did a terrific job, by the way. Sure. There are parts where I feel like we've got a cast of 20 people because Richard can be an elderly Scottish woman. Richard can be a 40 year old man. Richard can be Yeah. An east end pub landlord. And you think you're listening to he's terrific, and he sounds like he's having fun when he's doing it. But there are a few bits when I was listening to the audiobook where I thought, crikey. Yeah. That that's very similar to things that have happened to me as an author. I wonder where I got that idea from. So, there were a few bits like that. When you walked into, you know, the space to podcast, you said something along the lines of not having an Uber in your head. Right? Like, you just don't do Uber. Oh, I don't do Uber. No. There is no Uber on Amberly. No. I think Amberly sounds like a perfect place. And, unfortunately, it's just in my head, but it's, it's this place where you're a little bit cut off, but in a nice way, I think. Not everybody in the book would would agree with me. Yeah. I mean, probably sounds like my worst nightmare, not having Uber when I need it. I like the idea of, like, the quiet secluded place, but it also the whole plot or, I guess, the setting is not too far off. Right? Like, it doesn't sound so outlandish that it couldn't be true, which is what I like about it. And there are tiny islands in the Scottish Hebrides that are a little bit like Amberley where some of the ideas came from Okay. Where there really is just a ferry twice a week. And if you miss it or if there's a storm, you're not getting on and off the island. And the same with the doctor. I I remember reading about this tiny island where the doctor only visits on Tuesdays. Imagine that you can only get ill on a Tuesday, or you're gonna be in big trouble. Yeah. But I I love these tiny places where there's this real sense of community. Mhmm. But if it's not something you're used to or if you're someone who's quite private, it could be your worst nightmare because rural community based places that are in the middle of nowhere, are sometimes not the isolated havens that you think they are. Everyone knows everyone, and everyone knows everyone else's business. And everyone probably knows more about you than you realize. Mhmm. And I think in the book, if I remember correctly, it's 25 people on the island. Yes. Yeah. I could not imagine. Like, it sounds good in theory, but then when you need something and you have to walk 2 miles or 1 mile to get to the nearest road to be picked up to even get to a ferry, I don't know. It sounds like the perfect plot and the perfect setting for a thriller, which it is. Yes. So I love that. Oh, thank you. Let's talk about Hya because I'm obsessed with them. My kids love them. And if you're looking for a children's vitamin, these are the ones that you wanna use. Because typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise. They're filled with 2 teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals, and other gummy junk that growing kids should never eat, and that's why Hiya was created. It's the pediatrician approved super powered chewable vitamin. My kids love them. I love the experience that they get when they unbox the vitamins because they get to decorate their little jars to put the vitamins in. I'm obsessed. And most children's vitamins are filled with 5 grams of sugar and can contribute to a variety of health issues, but Hyatt is made with 0 sugar and 0 gummy junk, but it tastes so good for picky eaters. Creed is probably my pickiest eater, and so this fills in all the gaps. Hyatt fills in the most common gaps in modern children's diets to help provide the full body nourishment kids need with a yummy taste they love. I absolutely love the little jars. They have stickers. Luxe put his little name on them. And I also recommend checking out their new kids probiotic and nighttime essentials. Creed has a hard time with sleeping, so the nighttime essentials are perfect if you have a child like that. And I've actually worked out a special deal with Hiya for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order, and to claim this, you have to go to hyahealth.com/famous. The deal is not available on their regular website. So go to hiyahealt.com/famous to get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. So you worked as a journalist before I did. Becoming an author. So what was that transition like? It was, really interesting and very different. So I went from working in the middle of the world's busiest newsroom at the BBC in London to working all day in my shed with my dog. So I had so many, people that I was working with, hundreds of people within the newsroom, to just me and my dog. It was very different, but I dreamed of being an author for so long. It took me a really long time. I spent almost 10 years writing books, sending them off, collecting multiple rejection letters. I just could not get an agent. And sometimes the rejection letters would be really lovely. Very polite nose. How do you okay. I was gonna say, what do you what is what is lovely mean? Because I feel like a no is kind of terrifying sometimes. They would say that they liked the book, but it wasn't quite right for them. Or they enjoyed it, but it wasn't the right book try and launch a new author. And could I maybe send them my next book? Okay. And my favorite ever rejection came from a really lovely agent who I did not know, who I had submitted one book to, who wrote me this, I think, lovely rejection letter. But at the end, she said, I think you can do better. And I remember feeling a little bit beaten up because, you know, rejection is hard. But also I thought, well, how do you know? You don't know me. You don't know me. Maybe this is as good as I've got. I've been trying for years to do this. But something about that particular letter made me think, yeah, I can and I will, and then I'll send another book to you. And by the time I actually managed to get published, she had retired. That's how long it took me. But she was so kind, and she remembered me. And she actually got in touch when I did my first deal to say, I thought you'd do this one day. So so it's funny how rejection sometimes can be a good thing. You know? It just it makes you want to try even harder to get that thing that you've always dreamed of. And eventually, I wrote a book called sometimes I lie, and then everything changed. Everything changed too. I just read it, not too long ago, but that is so interesting because I just feel like after a couple of no's, I would've just said, okay. I guess this isn't for me. But for some reason for you, it just propelled you to work even harder. I think I've just always had this slight obsession with stories. Okay. Even as a child. Sure. You know, if the real world felt too loud or too dark, I would hide inside a book and I would read a book. And I think for me, even though now I'm a lot older, I'm the same in that way. I still hide inside a story if I think the world is too loud. And for me, the world is always a little bit too loud, especially now. So, I've gone from hiding inside books by reading them to reading them and writing them. But it's the same with all forms of escapism in terms of stories. I love watching TV shows. I love watching movies. And I think we all need that sometimes just to disappear down the rabbit hole to get away from reality. And that's not too far off from Grady Green because Grady Green says that he pushed away he basically pushed away all these relationships Yes. Because he was writing. Yes. Obsessed with his books. And I've definitely gone through phases in my career. This is book 7 for me, and I've just handed in book 8, which was really scary. It's always so scary handing in a new book. But I remember with His and Hers in particular, I spent nearly a year writing a book. Mhmm. And then and I loved the book. And then I decided that I couldn't let anybody read it. There was something wrong with it, and I didn't know what was wrong with it. But I'm very secretive as an author. I don't tell anyone, even my agents, my publishers. Nobody knows what I'm writing till I finish the book. So I sent an email to my agent. I remember I was in Wales. I was in a horrible Airbnb. It's it stank of damp. There was a terrible storm. There were dead seals on the beach. It was a really horrible trip. And then I sat in the window of this horrible Airbnb writing an email to my agent saying, I'm so sorry. I feel like I've let you and everyone down. I can't send the book in. And he said, just send it. I'm sure it's not as bad as you think. And I said, no. There's something wrong. But don't worry. I'm going to write another one. And he said, let me talk to your publishers. We can push back the the deadline. It's gonna be fine. And I said, no. No. No. The whole book is in my head. I just need to write it. I can do it in 3 months. And, I always do 3 drafts before anyone reads it. So I did 3 drafts in 3 months, and I hit send, which is as terrifying now as it was then. And everyone loved the book, and that book was his and hers, which is my best behaved book. What is just behaved? It just wrote itself. Oh. I just sat in the shed with my dog. I had no social life whatsoever for 3 months, but I got the book done. And I think those are my Grady Green moments when everything else just stops. Life stops. The house turns into a giant mess. My hair, I've got naturally very curly hair. In situations like that, it grows sideways. There'll be robins nesting in in the background. Yeah. So I understand Grey's obsession with when you get a story in your head and you have to write it. So that was definitely his and hers for me. And the badly behaved book, the one I couldn't figure out how to fix, I came back to it maybe a year later, and I could see what was wrong finally, but I didn't know how to fix it. Mhmm. So I wrote a book called rock, paper, scissors. Then I came back to the naughty one again, and I read it again. And now I knew how to fix it. And the solution was really actually very simple. I just needed to delete 80,000 words. Wow. So simple. No big deal. Just 90% of the book. Yeah. I mean, my book sent to be about 8085. So I had 5,000 left, so that felt quite positive. Something to work with? It was some at least something just the starting point was there. And I wrote the book again. Same book, same stories, same characters. But this time it worked, and that was Daisy Darker. So all of the books have behaved differently, but sometimes you do, I think, as an author, get a little bit obsessed with the story, the characters. I I mean, I hear them in my head. They're talking to me now without wishing to sound too crazy. But, yeah. Do you remember them? Like, from what? They feel like family because in some ways, I spend more time with the characters than I do with anyone real in my life. Sure. They're there all the time. They wake me up at 3 AM. And you're like, hold on. I have to type this really quick, or it's gonna be out of my way. Complete. Said that the badly behaved one, I when you said then you wrote rock, paper, scissors, I thought you were gonna say that rock, paper, scissors was the badly behaved one. Right. Rock, paper, scissors is one of my favorite, thriller suspense novels because it is so different than any other one that I've read. Thank you. And it was our book club of the month pick in, I think, November it was last year, was obsessed with the ending because I do not like books that explain everything at the end and give you a play by play of what it is that happened. It's like you're supposed to figure that out on your own, like, kind of deduce down what you want. And so I some people love it and some people hate it. I loved it. I ate it up. It was so good. Thank you. It was it was another one where I submitted the book, and this time I had little drawings at the top of the chapters. Do you remember? Yeah. Like the little sketches? Yes. Every character had their own with me. Their own little drawing at the top. That's so funny. Again, not normal for a thriller, but I like to see things a little bit differently. Yeah. No. And I love I mean, the same thing for this because you have a little map. Yes. And I love it. I got the PR box from Beautiful Ugly, and I about died because it has, like, the painting with their, the the not the painting. The pottery. The pottery. And the and the bog myrtle tea. Mhmm. I love my tea. They come up with all these brilliant fun things. It's such a It's like Christmas. They send me these gifts. They send me a, a magic 8 ball because that was in in the book too. I feel like I must add, you know, if there's something I want as a present, I need to put it in the next book so that the lovely team will Will get it for you. Will will make up something for a press kit and send me one. Yes. That's so funny. So for when you're describing the first book that you wrote, did you ever come back to it and publish it? The first book that you wrote, did it ever get published, or would you ever go back to it to try to publish it? No. It's terrible. Is it bad? I mean, thank goodness it didn't get published. I just think That's so funny, though. I was I talked to Freda McFadden a couple weeks ago, and she was telling me about how she had to redo an entire book. She started, it was called Suicide Med, and then she changed it years years years years later. Now I told you I've only listened to one podcast. That was the one. That is the one. So where she's talking about the butt eye? The the butt eye. I mean, I I had to pause it and think, did I miss understand? No. No. You didn't. I mean, I just thought that was the best writer story I've ever heard ever. I loved that. I loved that. Well, you know, all all respect to her. That's fantastic. It's just So maybe I I didn't have a butt eye in my first book. I sort of wish I did because it's a brilliant story, isn't it? It's good for a story. Yeah. Yes. No. It was, it was a bit too happy, if I'm honest. Okay. I think that I'm I I think I prefer writing and reading and watching quite dark and twisty stories. I think I was scared of doing that. Okay. And I think I was scared that perhaps I wasn't clever enough to do that. So in all way? Well, I think when you're growing up, for me, I imagined authors as these supreme magical beings. That's how I feel. You know, they were they are these magicians of words. Mhmm. And so although it was something I would have loved to have become, I couldn't imagine how someone like me could be. Okay. And even, you know, people would say to I've even when I wanted to work for BBC, people would say, you'll never work at the BBC. Someone how would someone like you work at the BBC? So it was, there were these dreams of mine that seemed so difficult to achieve, and yet, I don't know. I think I think there's something about me. When someone tells me I can't do something, it makes me really, really want to do it even more. And I felt like that about journalism, and I felt like that about becoming an author, but I was just always scared that I wasn't good enough. And even just now, you know, very recently I submitted book 8. You would think that I might have more confidence now, but I I don't. When I send that novel in for the first time, it's pure terror that I experience, that I'm scared that it isn't good enough or that I might let people down because let's face it. There are lots of brilliant books in the world. I don't want to inflict a bad one on anybody. So No. I don't think anyone would think that your books are bad. I also I mean, they speak for themselves. You go on Barnes and Noble, and I think you said that was it's listed as a bestseller already. Which is incredible. Yeah. I've never seen so far, in my, you know, reading journey, I have never seen on publish day the book be out of stock on Amazon. Yeah. So it is incredible. It's, it blows my mind to know that there are so many people around the world reading books that I've written in my shed. Oh, but my hairstylist was like, I cannot wait to talk about, rock, paper, scissors with you. We have to talk about the ending when I see you. Like, when we're having conversations about your book. I guess I spend so much time on my own Yeah. That I don't always understand what is going on in the outside world to do with the books. Mhmm. I really do only come out for 2 or 3 weeks to do tour once a year, and then I go back to the shed again. I'm I'm a bit of a hermit. I suppose I am a bit like Grady Green in in that way too. Yeah. But it's always a surprise, you know, when we go to, events and there are so many people. I remember we went to an event in Saint Louis a couple of years ago, and we arrived. And my lovely publicist Claire, who is here today, said to the lady when we arrived, is anyone here yet? I said, yes. Don't worry. We've already got 20 people. And I thought, oh, thank goodness. You know, everyone as authors, you're always scared of turning up to an event, and either nobody's there, or one man and his dog is are there, or someone turns up and it turns out really they wanted to meet Ruth Ware and they thought I was her and they're disappointed. That's just not about it. It's never happened yet, but it might. You never know. Do you never know? Did she comment on the book? No. No. No. I don't think she she did. But we got lots of other lovely comments. But this event where they said there's 20 people, I was so relieved. Yeah. And it turned out I hadn't heard her. She said there's already 220 people. And so when we walked in, I was so confused. I thought maybe they turned up for another author and that they'd be disappointed it was me. But then they all held up my books, and they really were there to see me. And, and this this year, we've got events where there are over 400 people coming along. And I just I think it's amazing. Oh, I bought tickets for your event as soon as I saw it. I just can't believe it. I said, oh, I'm we're going. I still sometimes think maybe this is a a dream. Nope. Somebody needs to pinch you because it's very real. Pinch me. It's very real. I I always remember with Sometimes I Lie my first book that was published. Yeah. The first ever newspaper review of the book got the names in a muddle. So the book was about a character called Amber Reynolds, who is in a coma. But the newspaper review, the first one I'd ever seen of my writing, didn't say Amber Reynolds. It said this book is by Amber Reynolds, and it's about Alice Feeney who is in a coma. And I think since then, I've wondered, am I? Am I just making am I lying in a hospital room somewhere with machines keeping me? Because how else did I get an agent and publishers and all these wonderful things? They mixed up the names. Yes. Yes. Did you clip out the article? Did you have that Oh, yes. You you framed it. I kept it anyway. It was the first one. Yes. That's really I mean, that's just as good as Frida's story about the butt eye. Is it? Okay. Good. That's Good. I love it. I've got a I'm still jealous of the butt eye, but, you know, I've got You should film something for TikTok or Instagram about about that. My first ever interview. That is funny. I mean, at least it made it in the article. Right? Yes. Exactly. What's most important. It's like we're featuring the work. All Papa's tea is is good Papa's tea according to my publicist. So here we are. Of course. Like, this is good. This is good. Okay. Let's talk about Hungry Root. Hungry Root is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped in one. They take care of the weekly grocery shopping, recommending healthy groceries and meals tailored to your taste, nutrition preferences, and health goals. 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So is TikTok big over there? Well, now you know how we've been talking about Uber Yes. Podcasts? TikTok is a bit of a mystery to me as well. Oh, it is. I understand what it is. It's videos on the phone. Yeah. I did look at it once. It made my brain melt a little bit, I thought. It'll definitely change, the way that you think about like, shorten your attention span. Yes. But I only bring it up because I think that BookTok partially inspired me to read. Oh. And so I just was gonna want I was gonna ask you about how I I love the on in Instagram is the one I I do do in this way. I like Instagram. Mhmm. Pretty pictures. I'm there for it all day long. Yeah. But sometimes people would tag things on Instagram, and they'll say that it's on BookTok as well. And I Yeah. I know that rock paper scissors was a book of book top, which sounds very fun. Yes. It went viral. That's that's incredible. Isn't it? Again, amazing things happen. I I have for my book club, this book top sticker that I did that I that's my BookTok sticker. I'm obsessed because I'll go look for recommendations, and if it's on BookTok, then you it has to be good. Right? If you thought that BookTok BookTok contributed to, you know, maybe new author success or or anything like that. I know that Barnes and Noble is opening a bunch of new stores by the end of this year, and I thought that maybe I don't know this for sure, but maybe book talk contribute to that a little bit. I think all reading is good reading. Yeah. Absolutely. Sometimes I think there can be some snobbery in this business. And I think if people are reading, to me, that's fantastic. And however they can hear about books and however we can spread the word about books is is also fantastic. And I love that I have a lot of young readers, who are much cleverer at all this technical stuff than I am, but sometimes very young. Yeah. I was I had an event in Macedonia last year, and there was a 12 year old in the audience with all of my books and came up to sign them, at the end of the event. And I did wonder if 12 was a little bit a smidgen a smidgen too young perhaps to be reading my books. But then it reminded me that I used to read Stephen King at that age, and Yeah. I think I sort of turned out okay ish. I think you turned out okay. But, yes, it was interesting meeting that 12 year old actually changed the ending of this book. Really? Yes. In what way? I really loved her. I loved her energy. I loved how enthusiastic she was about all reading. It makes me really happy when children are reading. I get so scared that everyone is living inside screens these days Yeah. Including me. I spend too long looking at screens for everything. So to see this kid who is so into her books and so eloquent about stories and what they meant to her and how they had helped her and changed her life just made me so happy. And I was worried she might misinterpret how I wanted the ending to be read, how I wanted people to feel about the women, on the island. Did you see me pause there to try and avoid spoilers? No spoilers here. It's so tricksy because I know what happens. But yeah. So I did. I tweaked the ending a little bit because of meeting a reader who I'm mentioning because she was talking about TikTok. So clearly, it's a it's a it's a big thing for young readers, especially out there. And I think anything that spreads the word about good books is a great thing. It would be cool if 10 years from now, you see her writing her own books. Yes. Wouldn't it? And maybe you were the inspiration behind her. I just I I find it so fascinating meeting people. We knew we had our first, event last night. And one of the readers who came along made me a hat to match the book. She she knitted an actual beautiful ugly hat in the same colors and things like that just blow my mind. Or sometimes people turn up with lucky Kit Kats to the events, which is just I've had Kit Kats from every country, and they all Really? They all taste differently. So you eat them? They all taste good. Oh, yes. She's like, I'm eating all the Kit Kats All of the Kit Kats. Every time. Yes. I absolutely love this, though. Like, I think that you are inspiring young readers. I I can't I don't know that 12 is too young. I'd probably I have an 11 year old. I have a 15 year old. I I would let them read them. Yeah. Yes. I don't think my 11 year old is there yet. He's more so into Diary of a Wimpy Kid right now. So he it's like met the author last night. That's where we were. Yes. That was so that was so fun. It's his bookshop that we visited. Are you serious? I'll have to go to one of bring my son Lincoln to one of his, you know, events. I didn't even know he was having events, but he has the entire the entire collection of that. My older son is more into thrillers, and he's tried to dabble in other genres, but he's more like suspense thriller. I would absolutely let him read these. I think they would be I mean, he's 15. He's a little bit older. Yeah. I think I think you're fine. I think the darkest book is probably, for me, is his and hers. Okay. That's the only one I think I got an 18 rating in certain places. I actually forgot how dark that book what we went. I read it recently before we went to the filming to to see Netflix making it. And as I was reading it again, having not looked at it for years, I was thinking, oh my goodness. Some of this is really messed up. Who wrote this? Oh, yeah. I did. Yeah. So I think it was very interesting the crew's reaction when they met me because they've been working on this for years too. And I think they imagined this dark, strange British woman who was writing them all these dark, twisty things about people getting murdered in very horrendous ways, and people having the word liar stapled on their chest. I mean, it's really messed up stuff. There there was a set there's a scene where there's a box of Tic Tacs. And I don't think it's too much of a spoiler. Inside, they weren't Tic Tacs. They were human nails. I I who wrote this? I was genuinely a bit shocked. But yeah. So I think that's the only one where I would think there I wouldn't want maybe a 12 year old to read that one. But they can watch it on Netflix. I'm sure it'll be fine. Imagine an app designed to make you use it less. Seems counterproductive. No? Well, Apartments.com's instant alert feature works exactly that way. Instead of scanning rental listings a 1000000 times a day, simply set and forget your search to whatever you're looking for in a place and let Apartments.com do the rest. 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We wanna see them on our screens. Yes. And sometimes you read books and you're like, I really liked this, but it could be better on an on a screen. Yes. And I You know what I mean? I I love it. I mean, I love reading books like this. I love watching TV shows like this. I love watching films like this. Yep. I feel like I can't get enough. And I think there are lots of other people out there who feel the same. You know, we've got this desire for some reason. We're all obsessed with these dark, twisty stories, and we love playing the game of who did it Yeah. And trying to solve the mystery. So, no. It's been a fantastic experience. A few of my books have been optioned. But this That's the first one? This is the first one that's actually been filmed, and I got to visit the set. And my characters who've lived inside my head for years came to life. And and walking and talking. His and Hers is the first one that you published? It wasn't book number 3. Book number 3. Okay. Book number 3. It was the well behaved one that was 3 months in the making. And you were like, that's why I got option 1st. Yes. Because it was such a well behaved book child. No. It's fantastic. And the the TV show is actually very true to the book. They've done the most incredible job. I think the scripts are fantastic. There's a twist or 2 in there that I wish I'd written. I sort of wanna go back and do it another version because it's so clever what they've done. And, the whole cast were just fan fantastic. John Bernthal, who was in The Walking Dead, and more recently, The Bear, he's Jack Harper. And I confess my eyes leaked a little bit the first time he was walking towards me because for me now, he is forever Jack. Yeah. And so to see Jack come to life and to see all these scenes where he's saying things that I wrote and oh, it was just there's nothing like it. They were so sweet to me. It was my birthday while we were there. Oh, They made a birthday cake. They all sang happy birthday. I really loved the school uniforms in the show Yeah. For the school that's called Saint Hilary's. And I told the costume designer, the uniform is so similar to how it was in my head. So they made me a uniform to fit me. I've got my own Saint Hillary's school uniform to take home. No. I loved it. And they gave me a friendship a friendship bracelet when I first arrived, which for anyone who's read the book is actually a bad sign. But I'm still here. I'm still here. It's just for it's just for showbiz. It's just a it's just a nice little touch. So, no, I've had such a fantastic experience, and I can't wait for people to see it. So when you get optioned for a movie or a TV show, do you end up getting to choose whether it's a movie or TV show, or is that sort of up to, like, the director, based on the script? Because I did have Colleen Hoover on, and she was telling me how, you know, if she got a movie for one of her books, you know, you go from 300 pages to a 100 page script for a movie, and so it's a little bit different where I and I don't know this for sure because she didn't say that. But for a TV show, you have a little bit more time. Yes. It's almost the other way around. You're almost trying to expand the story in certain ways, but also find neat little ways to break it into, say, 6 or 8 episodes. Okay. And I think my books lend themselves quite well to that because I like having lots of twists. Yeah. So there are twists to choose from in terms of, you know, having a nice cliffhanger to end an episode on. Hopefully, so the people want to watch the next one straight away. But how it's always worked for me is that, the new book will go out Okay. To the industry before it gets published. And then, I've been very lucky, touch wood. We always seem to have quite a few people interested, so I'll meet with different people. And sometimes they might want to make a movie, or they might want to make a TV show. But, I'll always base it more on the people, the producer, or the sometimes it's been an actor who has come forward with the offer. And for me, I just want them to love the book and look after it the same way that I would. You know? The books are my children. I always want them to be in safe hands. So I've only ever said yes to people who I think are gonna do a good job of it. And they they all have you know, everyone I've worked with has just been so fantastic. And we've got we've got his and hers coming out this summer, but we've also got sometimes I lie in the pipeline. I did I thought I don't know if I heard that or not. I I I think I think there's I think there has I always worry about what's secret. Wasn't it? That's why I want that clear because I don't know if it's not out yet. We won't No. It's okay. It's okay. So I think we've had a press release about the early stages of that. So, it's a producer called Tommy Harper who did top gun maverick. Oh, I think I did hear this. And Wednesday, and he just did Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. And, and he's working with a couple of people in the UK as well. Mhmm. And so that's going out soon. So there are things I can't say about it. Of course. Of course. Again, amazing scripts, and all of these people have been, honestly, such fun to work with. It's been a really pleasant experience for me, so I'm all for adaptations. So you said that the manuscript goes out to these the people Goes goes out to lots of different people. And if if producers or actors Before it hits the public? Yes. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yes. I always wondered that part because I don't know, you know, if sometimes the book will come out and then a show or movie won't come out for years years. So I didn't know if it would you know, they pick it up after all the buzz that it gets. There are so many secrets. Nobody told me before I became an author that you had to keep so many secrets. So there is lovely, beautiful, ugly screen shaped news as well that I'm not allowed to share yet, for example. Yeah. But, yes, I'm sure one day we're going to see Grady Green on screen too, and I can't wait. If you need a can anyone to make a cameo, I'm available. Excellent. So I can be I can be anybody you want in this book. You could have a podcast. Perfect. You could have a podcast on the on the Isle of Amberly. Perfect. I love that idea. That's so funny. So I know who you are was written and well, let me not say written, but it was published in 2019. Will we see that on our big screens anywhere? I don't think so. No. I've always said no. Okay. I don't really know why. I just never particularly wanted to see that story on screen. Okay. And the only other book that I've always said no to in terms of screen adaptation so far is Daisy Darker. I think because I love her too much. You don't wanna share her with the screens? Daisy, honestly, felt like family to me. And I remember when we went to the printers Mhmm. I cried partly because it's such a beautiful book, and I was so happy to see it finally published. But also because it, if you're at the printers, you can't do any more edits. You know? It's too late. Yep. So I was really saying goodbye to Daisy after 5 years of writing her, finally. And, I felt really sad about it. So I think one day, I hope Daisy Darker would be made into, a TV show or a movie, but it would have to be set in the UK. Okay. It would have to be true very true ish, I think, to the story. Whereas for some of my books, I think it's more about the characters and the story, and you could almost set it anywhere if you wanted to. With Beautiful Ugly, for me, Scotland almost played a a character in itself in in Why Scotland? I think the honest truth is because I go there every year. I'm just obsessed with the place. I think if there's a more beautiful place in the world, I've yet to find it. Mhmm. It's so unspoiled. It's so rugged and beautiful and perfect, and you can walk for miles and miles for hours with your dog. I am so much like Grady. Every time I I say something to you about the book, I think, oh gosh. Yes. We have that in common too. But, yeah, I think I think it's just this magical, magical place for me. And I've had so many happy things happen to me in Scotland that I now feel like it's just linked to my writing. You know, I finished writing Sometimes I Lie in Scotland, and then I finally got an agent. I remember, being up in Scotland in a terrible snowstorm. We really shouldn't have traveled. It was so unsafe. Nobody else was on the roads. We drove for 8 hours from London up to Scotland. We, ended up arriving at this very rural house that we had rented. That was honestly so creepy and in the middle of nowhere. We went inside the house. There was no water. The pipes were frozen because of the storm. There was no power. There was nothing. We thought maybe we should get back in the car. The car by then was totally snowed in, couldn't leave. So we thought we'll make the most of it. You know, we'll we'll light a fire. We'll open some wine. This sounds like rock, paper, scissors. Yes. And then just before bedtime, there was a face in the window, and I've never screamed so loud. We were nowhere near anyone. We were in the middle of a valley. And in real life, it was just a caretaker who came to check that we were okay because everyone thought we were crazy still going to this house when there was a terrible storm. But Why did they go to the window? Why did exactly. Because parent apparently, he said he apparently, he said, oh, I knocked on the door and you didn't hear me. But I felt like I was in a horror film. But, you know, then my imagination turned it into rock, paper, scissors. So again, Scotland delivered this amazing story for me. And I've had so many happy experiences like that. I feel like it inspires stories in my head. I feel like I get so much writing done when I'm there. It's like the speed increases by double. So, no. I'm just in love with the place. So if I sit for a year writing about it, it means I get to be there even when I'm not. I think that's that's part of it too. I've never been to Scotland, but I would absolutely now I wanna go. Now I have to go. To go. Okay. Let's talk about rocket money. Right? I've talked about rocket money for so, so, so many years, and I'm obsessed with it because this was how I was able to find and cancel so many unwanted subscriptions that I either forgot about or I wasn't using. And I also used Rocket Money to save for my in ground pool that I did 3 years ago. I'm obsessed with it. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings. 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Did I say I know who you are? Yes. Okay. Daisy Darker, you said you don't really want to bring on screen right now. That's okay. I I'm excited for rock, paper, scissors. Is that gonna come out? One day, I hope. Yeah. It's very slow. I feel like, What is? The the book? No. Oh, no. The book's super fast. That was a that was a I enjoyed that one. I feel like because I worked in journalism for so long, working for the BBC in the newsroom, everything is fast. A story breaks in the morning. I've got it on air by lunchtime. Yeah. Publishing, I write the book. Sometimes it isn't out for a year or year and a half later. And you've already finished the next one. I'm already I've already finished the next one. I'm onto the 2 books ahead. And television in my experience so far takes even longer. Yeah. But I'm kind of I've made peace with that now because now I've seen them actually film my TV show. I'm like, it is worth the wait, guys. It's worth the wait. Yeah. I'm so excited. Let's do it again. It's great. Already finished the next one after this? Yes. I have. Is there a publishing date? I think it will probably end up being this time next year. Okay. So, not not too long to wait. No. It's not too long. I think the years go by really fast. I mean, I don't know if it's because I have 7 kids or what it is, but I feel like the years just go by so fast. They do, don't they? I I I mean, everything, I think, just keeps coming around so quickly. Suddenly, it's birthdays and Christmases and Halloween. It's like we just did this 5 minutes ago. Yeah. Yeah. Would you ever do a book about your life or a character sort of like your life working for the BBC? Like, have a main character that worked for No. I'm just not that interesting in real life. I just you know, sometimes people say, why don't you narrate your own audio books? I'm like, oh gosh. I don't like the sound of my own voice. Do you pick who who narrates them or do they? I do. Oh, you do. Oh, interesting. I think I'm a bit of a control freak in some ways because they are my children. Yeah. You know, I really care about them all deeply. And I get so scared, you know, when it's publication date, for example, because it's like I'm sending my children out into the world for the first time by themselves. And I just hope everyone's gonna be kind to them and and take care of them. And if anyone isn't kind to them, I hope they're strong enough to take care of themselves. All those strange sort of feelings, you know, that you might have about sending a child out to school for the first time or something. But, you know, I think that's pretty normal though. Mhmm. Because you just never know how people are gonna, you know, feel about them. You don't go on Goodreads, though. Right? No. You shouldn't. No. I try to, the only I read I read reviews when they're good and people send them to me. So Good. My team, my family, my friends will send me the good ones. Yeah. And I think you've got to be quite, you've gotta just kind of roll with the punches a little bit with that. It's not possible to write a book that everyone is gonna love. It's simply not possible. And I remember even in year 1, I learned very early on, don't read reviews. Mhmm. But also, I learned not to pay too much attention to reviews. I I remember my favorite Amazon review, is a 5 star review on Amazon. And then, the description just says great. And below that, it says, this is the best dog brush I've ever used on my husky. It gets rid of all the dead fur. Thank you. And I just thought, well, I'll take it. That's still a 5 star review. I I still worry that somewhere there is a really brilliant dog brush out there with a one star review that says this book sucks. But, you know, because clearly they got them in a muddle. So no. The reviews I mostly care about, honestly, across my heart are reader reviews. Mhmm. When people post a review on Instagram or something like that and they tag me in it, I read all of those. I look at the beautiful pictures they take of my books all around the world, and it brings me so much joy when a reader has genuinely loved reading one of my books, when when they when they get it. You know? That's Oh, yeah. It's the best feeling in the world. My, I'll call her my cohost for book club. I mean, she ate it. She texted me. She's like, this is so good. Thank you. And I was like, I'm sure she'll love that, and I'll tell her that you said that. When you start writing, do you plan your twists out ahead of time sort of before you have the full story, or do the twists come as you go? Most of it is there. So I tend to think about the books for 1 or 2 years before I start. So, even when I'm working on one book, my head is already planning the next one. It's always very noisy up here. There's all these voices all the time. I wish they'd shush. And unfortunately, a lot of one one of my good ideas tend to happen at 3 AM in the morning. Mhmm. And we've established I'm not great at technology. So I sometimes forget how to make the phone go into silent. So my poor husband at 3 AM will just hear tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap. Because sometimes, you know, you think you might forget the idea if you don't write it down. So I tend to put it all together in pieces like that, then I have a giant board, giant whiteboard. Mhmm. I I think because I'm so old fashioned and not down with the kids at all. For years, I did everything on an actual giant cardboard board, which would have tiny little bits of different colored card stuck to it with Bluetack. Do you have Bluetack in America? It's like it's like chewing gum. Oh. But it's but it's for sticking things together. We call it that. I'm not sure. But I remember I used to, sort in case with the call. Grade classroom. Yes. Exactly. Because I want I just wanted it for whatever reason. So I did it like a child, basically, putting together a sticky board. And then, 1 year my husband said, this is ridiculous. You're actually you're you're actually like a professional author now. I think you need to up your game. So I have the same thing, but it's a whiteboard with magnets and still the same different colored cards, but it looks slightly better, I suppose. It doesn't look like my 9 year old niece's artwork project. I just watched, A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson. She has the show on Netflix, and one of the main characters is trying to solve the crime, and she has, like, a marker that she's, like, drawing on the wall with, like, pictures and arrows and sort of, like, what you're describing. Yes. And it just looks to us like a mess, but to her, it made sense. Exactly. I I think I need to see the whole book in one place. Yeah. So I need to see all the chapters, all the characters, and just see it all together. And then once I got the board, I even call it board day. Once I got it's like a a special day because it's it's like me committing to writing the book. Okay. I've never done the board and then not written the book. So that's when I'm sure it's a book. It's something I wanna write, something I wanna commit at least a year of my life to. And then I have all these strange little traditions. So after board day, I'm telling you far too many it's because it feels like we're just having a nice fun chat. I forget that anyone else is gonna hear all my madness later on in the though because there there are people that listen that are like, we wanna write a book. What do we do? Well, you need a board. You need you need you need to have board day. And then, I normally treat myself to a very nice bottle of champagne, and I write the book number and the date, and I put it in the fridge straight after board day. And then I'm not allowed to drink the champagne until my agent has read the book once I finished it and says it's good. So for the following year, I will open the fridge several times a day and see the champagne and think, not yet. Not yet. So it's so special when I get the phone call from my agent to say, I've read it. It's good. You've done it. Well done. And And you can drink it. Then I drink the champagne. And then we start all over again. And I love that. Sooner or later, there's another bored day. Yeah. I love that. Isn't my life fun? No. I actually love it because I'm like, this is and you have, like, the writing shed. I love that. The dog I think everyone has their little quirks, and I have the, the jar of lucky Kit Kats on my desk as well. So if if it's a slow writing day, if it's taking me a while to get to my 2,000 words, then I have a lucky Kit Kat. And I always I always whenever I come to America, I remember that here you have 6 finger KitKats because at home, there's only 2 finger KitKats. Okay. I didn't know that. The ones here would not fit in my special lucky KitKat jar. But I always wonder if I lived in America with the giant KitKats, I could probably write 2 books a year. I'd I'd probably speed up. I should be able to get you in America, everything I feel like is bigger. So we could also get you a bigger jar, so the 6 finger ones would be able to fit in the jar. I'm sure there there is a jar out there that we could use to accommodate this. We could definitely do that. I don't know that you'll be able to get it back on your plane, but You have such different, confectionery here. Yeah. It always amazes me. And on the on the film set for His and Hers, they had this this area every every day wherever we were, whether we were on set, and it has called crafty Crafty. With all these different amazing Mhmm. Snacks. Just everything. Everything you could do. So Jessica Chastain is producing the show, and she was rather partial to something I'd never heard of before, which was a lollipop with bubble gum in the middle. You don't have that? No. I've never heard of such a thing. Lollipop? That's what she called it. That's what it was. Because when she first said it, it sounded a little bit rude, if I'm honest. I didn't know what was going on. You know, when someone says they want one of those, I just think, crikey, I thought we're here to film a show. But, no. And so she was explaining to me, that that's what they are and it's a thing, and she she loved these things. And I I don't know what my face did. I think my face sometimes does things I don't know it's doing. Mhmm. And she's this understood that I wasn't that impressed with this particular lollipop with bubble gum in the middle. And she said, what's what's wrong with that? And I said, well, either it it should either be a lollipop or it should be bubble gum. And I told her the story of the the time I nearly divorced my husband, who I've been with for 20 years, because of a Yorkie bar. Do you have Yorkie bars here? No. No. See, this is the problem. You have all these different things and we have different things at home. But at home, we have this thing called a Yorkie bar. Now when I was a child, the advert, the TV advert for it said these are not for girls. Which again, when someone says I can't do something, I can't You want it. I wanted it. So I always wanted the Yorkie bar. But then they messed it up by having a special version, which had raisins inside it. I know. You know, and I think chocolate should be chocolate. Raisins, I've got no problem with them, but they should just be raisins. And I felt really sad that first day I met Jessica Chastain. That instead of having a deep and meaningful conversation with her, I spent most of it talking about raisins and chocolate and lollipops and bubble gum bits in the middle, but we got to know each other the next day on set a bit better, so it was all good. It was all good. She'll remember that forever too, but I just have to ask then, do you know what a Tootsie Pop is? Oh my goodness. Again, I'm worried it sounds so rude. Doesn't it? I mean, what on earth could that be? In my opinion, they're better than a blow pop. They have a Tootsie Roll, which is chewy chocolate in the middle and then a lollipop on the outside. Right. And they're so good. Okay. Well, I'm gonna make it my mission to find one while I'm here at the I'm gonna bring one to your event, and I'll sneak it to if I see Claire, I'll sneak it to Claire so she can get Amazing. That can be one thing to look forward to. Yes. Tonight. Thank you. Promise you're gonna try it. I will. I will try it today. But you'll have to try another you know, whenever you're out of your event. But I would argue that a Tootsie Pop is better than a Blow Pop because the the thing about the Blow Pops is that the gum gets really hard really fast. All these things I never knew. Yeah. Yes. I'm worried that you've missed out a little bit. I think I think I could. This very sheltered life I've had in Britain, where we don't have these magical things that are here. The tootsie pop is good, though. Okay. I'm gonna give it a while. Alright. Let's talk about hair because I want my hair to come I just cut it all off, but I don't know what to do because I'm, like, in the process of trying to grow it healthier, but also I sort of like it short. Prose makes beauty personal with truly custom hair care and skin care formulas that wouldn't exist without you. Right? They couldn't. 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And so I had this very cheap, strange little board from a shop called Woolworths that we used to have in the UK, which mostly sold sweets. I'm obsessed with talking about sweets today. But I remember writing on it in my sort of half asleep dazed state, that the main character's name was Amber Reynolds. I just knew it from my dream. And there were three things I had to remember about her. That number 1, she was in a coma. Number 2, her husband didn't love her anymore. And number 3, sometimes she lies. And that became the book. I mean, that became the opening and it was the crux of the story. So I literally woke up with that name in my head. For Grady Green, I think I just really like, names with a smidgen of alliteration. So I've, you know, I've had a Priya Patel in his and hers or, yeah, Grady Green in in this particular book. And I have a future book. So a book that won't be out next year, a book that will be out the year after. 2 of the main characters in that are actually names of people who came to a book signing at a tiny little bookshop in Cornwall in England. You know, because I see all these names when I'm signing books for people in the queue after events. And sometimes people have these amazing beautiful names that I've never heard of before. And I remember meeting this very sweet girl at this bookshop a few years ago when we were promoting Daisy Darker, and I just stopped what I was doing. And that's not a good idea when you've got a long queue of people waiting for signatures. I said, oh my goodness. That's just the most amazing name I've ever heard. Would you mind if I use that in a book? Because she was a fan. She had all the books. I knew she would read it one day. Gonna freak out. And it's an unusual name. So it would be a huge coincidence if if I chosen it any other way. And she's I'd be so thrilled if you did that. And she left the queue and then she ran back. She said, by the way, just in case my sister's called and I won't say what it is, this other name. And my goodness, their parents were really on it. So they were 2 fantastic names. And I said, I'm gonna use them both one day. I don't know when, but I will. And I I have. So in a couple of years time, that very sweet girl I met in a queue a few years ago in line in a bookshop in Cornwall will see her name in one of the books. That is amazing. So, yes, people should come to the events because you might end up in a book. You never know. You never know. That's incredible. And she they're gonna love that. You just made their whole year. I'm sure when that book comes out, they're gonna be so excited. I mean, I'm not always nice about it. We renovated a very old thatched cottage a few years ago, and we had an awful plumber. I really, really did not like this man. He, you know, we we turned on the the new system for the first time, and the the walls actually were crying. You know, there was water running out everywhere, floods everywhere. And he was such a he was such an he was not a good person. He was he was in a book somewhere. Not a goodie. So I murdered him in a book and I felt so much better. That's the best thing I ever heard. I felt I felt so much better afterwards. Suddenly, I you know, he was all forgiven, and I felt I felt better again. Yeah. And he say karma. He'll never read it, so it's fine. So I get the names from He might after hearing this podcast. He might. He might. I get the names from all over the place. Yes. I mean, I think that's funny. Do you get any inspiration from any other authors, or have you ever? Oh, yes. I mean, too many to mention Sure. Probably. But as a child, I was a bit obsessed with Stephen King books. I was I was good at school academically. Mhmm. Really bad at sport. Could not catch a ball, still can't. You know, we do net ball and someone throw a ball just hit me. I couldn't catch a ball. What is net ball? Oh my goodness. You did all these things are different. Is it basketball? No. You throw football. You throw the ball, and if you're not me, you catch it. And then you it's a bit like basketball as in there's a net, and you throw it. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Is that only in the UK? I don't think so. I didn't I didn't used to think so. But when you catch the ball, you have to stand still. But even that wasn't a problem for me because I can never catch it. So no good at sports, really slow at running. Mhmm. And I'm quite sure. I find it really comical that my feet actually don't touch the ground here. Oh, wow. They really don't. No. They really don't. I'm very I'm really short. So I said to you, I feel like a child or like an oompa loompa. I'm from from Willy Wonka land. No. But so, you know, they'd they'd ask you things like the hurdles at school. I can't jump over things for goodness sakes. Got little stumpy legs here. So, no. No good at sport, but good academically. So we'd have these prize givings at the end of the school year. Okay. Nothing for the sports side, but I I could I could write. I could do English, and I could add things up in math. So I'd I'd I'd win at that, and I'd get, like, a the the prize you would get would be book tokens. Okay. And then you could choose your your your book, and then you'd go up on stage, meet a local celebrity, shake their hands. You know, the head headmaster would read something out about you, get your book. All the other kids would go up on stage, collect a giant atlas or a special encyclopedia. I spend my vouchers on as many Stephen King paperbacks as I could. Have you ever met him? No. I was so loved to meet him. I think he's like, I have so many heroes, but he's my number one hero. And I think I'm a writer because of him. I think me disappearing inside of his stories when I was a little girl is what made me fall in love with stories so much. So no, I think I owe him so many things, but also his book on writing, that's my go to. Yeah. You know, if I'm having a badly behaved book, I I have no idea how many times I have read the book, as in read the physical book, but also listened to the audio book because he narrates it himself. Mhmm. So I feel like sometimes Stephen King is in my shed with me, guiding me if I get stuck, reminding me Yeah. That I have written a few books before, and of course we can write another one, and this is how we do it. So, there have been lots of authors, and there are authors around, you know, who every year I'm so excited to read their books. Yeah. Lisa Jewel is a big favorite of mine. We share an agent. So one of one of the best perks of my job now is that I get sent her books early every year. Yes. I'm, like, so excited for that. I mean, that's enough for me to want to carry on being an author forever. So I get to read her books early every year. That's awesome. So, no, I'm a huge fan of lots of authors, and I read a lot still. Frida also told me that she, like she was listening at at the time of the interview, she was listening to a Stephen King book. So that's funny that you guys both really like that. And I, his I listened to Holly quite recently as well. Holly Jackson? That that he had a book called Holly. Oh. Oh. Oh. Yes. Yeah. Which was, fantastic. I think audiobooks these days have come on in such an incredible way. The beautiful the beautiful ugly audiobook has all these amazing sound effects in it that really bring the story to life. So there's a crackle of a walkie talkie or, there are the sounds of the waves, creepy music. To everything. Yes. It really does. And the thing is, sometimes and I don't I can't speak for all readers, but sometimes, I'm in the car a lot. So I was telling you before we started podcasting it. You know, I I drive to New York several times a month. And so sometimes I'll start a book, like a physical copy or on my Kindle, and then I you know, if I'm in the car for 3 hours, I'll listen to the same book. So I'll buy the physical book, but I'll also buy the audio. Yes. And so when sometimes when you do that and you hear the sound effects and everything, it is either exactly what you thought it what you pictured for the physical book when you're reading it, or it'll change it a little bit. And so then you have, like, an even better idea because of the sound effects that are in an audiobook. It's really fun, isn't it? And I just think, again, anything that's getting people into reading and stories in whatever format is Yeah. Is fantastic. And Richard Armitage unerates this one. You know, I I would forget listening to it that it was it was just him doing about 20 different voices. So we've got Richard Armitage and we've got Tuppence Middleton. But Richard, in all of his chapters, you'll hear about 10 different versions. Richard can be a 40 year old man. He can be an elderly woman from Scotland. He can be the East End pub landlord. All of them. And I was like, how is he doing? He sounds like he's having such fun in it. So, it was a real joy, to listen to, and I think readers are gonna enjoy that version too. Good. I did try to get it before. Oh, I didn't try to get it. I went to go download it, but it wasn't out yet because I forgot that today's publication day. Yes. So I was like, okay. We'll get it. Reading it just reading it, I think, is also I I mean, that's my favorite way of reading it because then you get your own version, don't you? Yeah. You picture it all in in your own head how how it's gonna look and who they are and what they sound like and because I was telling you earlier, my son and I watched a good girl's guide to murder, which is You. It was, like, right up his alley. But he was I didn't read it. I had only seen the show, and he was telling me, oh, that, you know, that wasn't the way that I pictured it in my head or, you know, something like that. And so it's I think audio is a little bit different because you can still picture it in your head the way you want, but it's still, like, a fun way to to do it. Rapid fire really quick. Is that would that be fine? Oh, yes. Okay. I don't know what that is, but let's do it. But what is the best piece of advice that you received as a writer? You think you can do better from that lady? Yeah. I think it probably probably was. I mean, when people ask me, you know, what should I do if I want to become a writer? I always say read a lot, write a lot, and never give up because if you don't give up, you can't fail. Mhmm. And I think that's probably, you know, what I was telling myself at the time during those almost 10 years of keep writing books and keep collecting the rejection letters. So, yeah, I think the best piece of advice I did get was you you can do better. I love that. Coffee or tea while writing? Neither. Neither. I don't drink hot drinks. Oh, okay. I don't know. Ice coffee and iced tea. Oh. Neither? Okay. No. I don't know why. I think I'm a bit of a child in that way too. Fair. Something fizzy. Oh, same. Yeah. I do love a good Coke. What's the Coke like in England? Okay. I think it will taste the same, doesn't it? There's there's Absolutely not. Oh, no. Okay. The best Coke you can ever get on the planet is in Disney World in Florida. Oh. Mhmm. And then I would say second to that is McDonald's Coke. I did not know this. In America. I did not know this. Yeah. I think they do add a little bit extra syrup. I don't know that for sure. Don't sue me. But I would guess that they add a little razzle dazzle to it. I like a lemonade. Oh, okay. I love Yes. With pulp or without pulp? With either, actually. I like both, but maybe without. I love with pulp. And a straw. A straw. I like a straw. Okay. But no. I don't like a straw with soda because I feel like the paper straws, specifically, that are better for the environment, they take the fizz out of the drink. Yes. And then they go a bit soggy, don't they? Yeah. You know, because you gotta drink it quickly. Gotta just get on with that. Yes. What is one thing that you cannot write without? My dog. Yes. Yep. Which is also there's a dog in Beautiful Ugly. There's also a dog in Rock, Paper, Scissors. I don't remember a dog in Sometimes I Lie. No. I don't think I I don't think I was doing the dog thing at that stage. There's always a dog now because I spend all day with my dog, and so he's sitting on my feet. And, I really wanted to call out our our dog now is is 2 years old. So he's still a bit of a a big puppy, and he's called Boots. Not Columbo? No. But it is funny because, in my next book, I called the dog in my next book what I really wanted to call Boots. So in the next book, there goes a there's a a bit of a hint of the book that's to come. There's a there's a dog in the next book called Sunday. And I I really wanted to call my dog Sunday, but my husband pointed out that we might be up in the woods or up a mountain one day going Sunday, Sunday. And someone would think, what weirdos? It's Friday. So, I wasn't allowed to call Boots Sunday. So I called a dog in a book Sunday instead. I actually know some someone who named their child Sunday. I think it's a lovely name. I think Sunday is my favorite day of the week. I think Sunday is a great day. So, and and dogs are great. So chill day. Okay. And where is your favorite place to write? Scotland. Scott. Or the shed. Or the yeah. Yeah. Okay. Which there is it a shed here? Yeah. Not a shed, but there's he's always writing a cabin. Yeah. Yes. And same for Henry Winter in rock, paper, scissors. Yes. Right? He likes the Yes. I I think I definitely church. Whenever I write about writers Mhmm. I guess they do tend to have more in common with me in that way. I know that some writers like to write in cafes, and I think they are an alien species to me. I Yeah. I need quiet and, yeah, they're shared somewhere remote. Somewhere in the corner of Scotland with no phone signal. Perfect. My idea of heaven. My worst nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. We we'd have to meet somewhere in the middle, wouldn't we? Yes. And so where can people get Beautiful Ugly or any of your books? I think Beautiful Ugly is everywhere today. It seems to be everywhere. I keep, know, I keep opening up Instagram. I see more and more beautiful pictures taken by readers, which makes me honestly so giddy with joy, actually, to see people reading it and enjoying it. So I think it's out everywhere that you can buy books today. Sold out temporarily, I think, because so many people have ordered it from Amazon, but it'll be back in stock soon, I'm sure. Yeah. So now I'm I'm just so grateful to everyone who's been talking about the book, spreading the news about the book, and it's finally out. Hooray. Hooray. Congratulations. Thank you so much. And where can people find you on social media? Oh, Instagram is the best one for me. That's my happy place. I always try and see all the the pictures that I'm tagged in. Yeah. And I really love seeing them. And people go to such incredible lengths to take beautiful pictures of the book, and it's They do. It's I saw the collage you posted of all the was that I think that you posted it. Yes. I did. And it was a collage of every single one that you probably have had seen, or maybe they didn't fit all in there. But, I was like, wow. That's incredible. Yes. I just I really love seeing them. So if I see ones that I love, I save them onto my phone. I thought I wanna celebrate this. And I I want my readers to know that I am looking at this stuff, and I really appreciate it. So, no, I think, you know, writers are nothing without readers and I I have the best one. So I'm so grateful. Well, thank you. And I will see you at your event later tonight at Barnes and Noble. Thank you so much for talking to me, and I can't wait to see you again later. It's been so much fun. Yes. Thank you. This thing on. Caitlin Bristow, host of Off the Vine podcast where I get real, well, maybe a little too real sometimes, with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor franchise and beyond. I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness Nikki Glaser, Wells Adams, Elyse Myers. Just like in this, like, business jacket, like, I would love some tacos. Heidi D'Amelio, Big Brother's Taylor Hale I have to bring it up because it happened, and we're gonna get through it. What'd I do? And so many more. So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions, and get a little vulnerable because you know what? We're all just floating on this weird little planet together. Follow, rate, and review off the Vine podcast wherever you listen to your podcast. Pluto TV is the place for movie fans like me. And TV fans like me. They've got something for everyone, and it's totally free. You can binge laugh out loud sitcoms like Frasier. And rewatch cult classics like higher learning. Oh. Whether you're in the mood to solve a little crime before bedtime with NCIS or Tracker. Or curl up with a surefire hit like Forrest Gump. Run, Forrest. Pluto TV has thousands of movies and shows all for free. Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.