Bad Travelers

Transcript

Forests are more important than ever. Quilter manages as far as sustainably to help combat climate change, to supply wood, for building homes, to protect habitats for nature and to provide beautiful places for people to enjoy. That's why Quota is developing outstanding visitor destinations like Beyond the Trees of India. I'm creating more recreational forests in communities all over Ireland, quilter forests for climate, nature, wood and people for a greener future for all. Thank you, everyone, for joining us yet again. Here we are. It's Tuesday feels like Thursday and Monday at the same time to me. I don't know why I'm overcome with lethargy and why I'm completely exhausted, but that is how I feel if I almost feel like I'm in a fugue state. Yeah, yeah. You're just moving through your life as a character, but like, you know, you're not really in your own life. There's something strange. I don't know what it is about this week. I just feel exhausted, completely exhausted. We both had a pretty packed weekend, so we were just still in recovery mode, right? Or it's on recovery mode. I'm just realizing that I hate flying and whatever. It's a privilege to fly. I got it. I know. But I just like hate flying, like I hit so plane sick, and I flew American this past weekend in Nashville. Hmm. And let me tell you, OK, they come through the cabin after it's been an hour of flying. They didn't like on other airlines. They get up right, you know, after 20 minutes and they do drink service, OK? The minute you hit cruising altitude. You know, you're being served right, right, and on American, you know, it took them an hour to start a snack service or whatever, and I look forward to playing snacks. I like eating on planes, not someone who's grossed out by it. Maybe that's, you know, says a lot about me, whatever. And I'm usually ravenous by the time I'm on a flight, like especially like a morning flight. So anyways, ravenous. And yet again, I was given a measly bag of pretzels and just expected to feel satisfied. And so I know in the past I've asked for multiple bags of snacks, but I just didn't have it in me to like, you know, lose all my pride and shame before 11 a.m.. So I was just anyways, I was just hungry and flying hungry. Flying in general sucks. So that's all. Truthfully, there's just nothing. There's nothing more devastating than getting on a flight, and they start the snack service and you realize that there's not like a basket with an array of goodies that you get to choose from. There isn't like a delicious crispy potato chip, potentially a blue chip. You know, there's there's no pop whatever those are called top corners, pop corners. No popcorn is. No, it's I'm here are two ginger cookies. You better shut up and like it. Oh, eat it like the peasant that you are. That's that's what that feels like. Another gripe I've got is that, you know, recently they've been asking me, Do you want this? I don't want to be asked if I want this. Assume that I want it. And I'll tell you if I don't like, I don't want to feel that shame. But honestly, yeah, when I say yes, I would like the pretzels like I and half the time I feel like my seatmate doesn't get them. And then I just like Shame Spiral for the whole rest of the flight. So many reasons why I hate flying, but like, I truly hate it. Honestly, the 60 calorie pretzel bag. Why doesn't the captain just get out of his seat and come spit on my face? That's what that feels like. It's so shame inducing. Yeah, I there's so many problems wrong with our society, but I think, you know, this is something we need to focus on right now. Cancel a plane, a plane, snacks and plane food shaming. Oh, and this is also and this has become so common. It's a crime. It's a crime that has become common to the point of we've accepted it, people, and I'm ready to tell our culture to give a message. It is not acceptable that when you order a Diet Coke that they fill up your cup and you do not get the entire can. Oh, I know, I know. So imagine my surprise, Lauren, when I was given the whole can of cranberry juice. I mean, I looked at them like the eight ounce can. Yes, I looked at them with the biggest doses of appreciation and gratitude. Like I was shook. I was shocked. And then I also felt like, you know, plane tickets are sky high right now, and this is the least they can do is give me a full can of a cranberry juice c**ktail. It wasn't a c**ktail. Mom, it was literally, as I call it, really an 11 a.m. vodka cranberry for jam on our way to Tennessee. I'm going to throw up the party starts in 26, b***hes. Oh my gosh. So I will give you a light. OK, before we get into the episode, let's catch up about our weekends. We have a lot to talk about. A lot happened. We always say a lot happened, but really a lot happened this weekend and a lot of it's really sad and dark. So before we get into all that, let's just top our weekends. Lauren, what did you do? OK, so this weekend, Keegan and I were invited on a boat and so we went did a boat day out to Culebra. Beautiful, a stunning, stunning island. It was honestly such a fun time. Like, This is what was nice about it. I wasn't hosting anyone. I was on someone else's party, right? And my only job was to be just a wonderful guest and to have fun, right? And that felt so nice. I barely knew anyone on the boat. It was like, I was like meeting a bunch of people for the first time, and it was just truly delightful. Like, I swam, I ate delicious food and it was just amazing. I will tell you, I have a funny moment. OK, so there was only there's only one other girl on the boat and her name was Nina. OK. OK. She kind of knew her and her husband recently moved to Puerto Rico and are kind of new to the friend group. So anyway, it was my first time meeting her. Yeah, she's really cute, really fun. But anyway, so it was just the two of us girls on the boat and there was so we got on and they're on this boat. There was like a stewardess and her her name was Princess, OK? This was like kind of surprising. I definitely asked her twice, I was like, Princess Princess is your name and she's like, a princess, OK, whatever, I'll call you whatever. I'll call you princess. No problem. So there's me, Nina and Princess, the chief steward, Robert. Mm-Hmm. Anyway, so we're on the boat and my friend who's like, yeah, like one of our friends in this crew. He kind of nods behind me. I don't see where he's nodding to. He just kind of gestures and he goes, What's her name? And I think he's referring to the chief stew princess because there's only one other. There's only like two other girls on the boat, and I think he's talking about the. I think he's about to ask for something. Yeah. And so I go princess and he looks at me quizzically, and I know it's kind of weird, but her name's princess. So then it's like, OK, so he very confidently across the the boat goes Princess, do you want? Or like, he asks for something. I forgot what to even ask for it? Because Princess. Can I look something to of sunblock or something? Or can I get some sunblock, whatever? And and like, there's no no response. That's what he says even more confidently. Princess, I turn and the girl has turned around in horror and it's like, my name is Mina Tut Princess. Because look what man is referring to me as princess right now. It was. And the funny part about Nina is she does have like like blonde hair down to her waist. She kind of just like a princess. It was just hilarious. It was absolutely hilarious. I was dying. So like, no, that's the name of the I was. I was like cracking up. So the whole rest of the day I kept calling her princess, and that's going to be her nickname forever. And my friend was so mortified. Was so good. That's hilarious. Oh my gosh. Just like Prince, I got it at a New Jersey gas station. Hey, Princess, Hey, Princess, sunblock princess. I, we I. We were joking. I was like, I was like, he calls every woman princess that a doll face. It's really just the way he is. Just locker room talk is like lighting up. Exactly, exactly. Don't you want? Don't you want a man to treat you like a princess? Right, right. Wow. OK. And I am. I actually used to date somebody who used, like, I think, princess, but then like another language, I can't even remember how to say it. So I'm not going to bother, you know everyone by saying it. But in the moment I thought it was sweet which baby shows how toxic I was as a kid. But and I wasn't a kid, OK? The sounding way weird was when I was a teen. Yeah, that story just took a dark turn. I know like, OK, we're just moving right along. Anyways, I went to York and then there was an amber alert and they got me back. It's crazy. My phone started going off. I was like, Is this your license plate? Pull over? Wow. We're really doing it all. Lauren, did you see that I was in Nashville this weekend? I did see, I did see there in Nashville. You know, can I talk to you at something really quick? Mm-Hmm. You went to Nashville with three of our friends. And. You know, there wasn't even like a courtesy invite, not even a courtesy, like all of your free tag along. Right? You know, you don't care about the person's music. We went to go see Casey myself. No, you didn't go see Kacey Musgraves went to see Kacey Musgraves as ex-husband. Very important distinction. Whatever. I love a trip to the country. I'm OK. I love the American South. I'm not bringing anyone on a concert trip unless they're completely, you know, evangelical, unless they're evangelists, unless they're complete evangelists, you know, for this artist. And the best part is such B.S. But continue, I would tell everybody in the town are going to see Ruston Kelly, who? Oh, Kacey Musgraves ex-husband? Oh, oh, it's actually like, very fascinating because like there was a bunch of like pre-concert or there was like a slide show up on the stage, like before the concert. Yeah. Like, you know, country musicians playing at the Ryman and Casey's like face, like came up like, you know, every few minutes. And I was like, Damn, I'll be really hard, but also not at all. And he's an idiot, but his music is good. Yeah, I oh, he's a folk singer. He's like, he's Noah Gundersen adjacent. Maybe if you gave him a whirl, I would consider inviting you on the next trip, but I just want to be invited on fun vacations. That's all. It doesn't matter what you're going to do, it doesn't move out of the group. I usually just like a standing invitation. OK? Can can I complain about can I go back to plain complaining for one moment, please? Are you seeing how high plane tickets are these days? No, you're saying this, I don't know. Like, I don't know if before the pandemic I was no. I was broke into I would have. I would have known how expensive was to fly. But it is so expensive to fly now. Really like how much? No flight feels like a deal anymore. OK. Like, what do you talk to come like your flight to Tennessee? Like, my flight to Tennessee was was like it was like 220. That was it wasn't that bad. Like roundtrip, maybe I can't believe I was at transit transported from New York to Tennessee. Oh, 700 miles, whatever it was. And for thirty dollars and all the snacks I want now. Exactly. I think maybe it's just that I moved to New York and I'm realizing how expensive it is to get back across the country. And I'm used to like, you know, here's where you live. New York City, I used to live in L.A. Then before that, I was in San Francisco and I'm in New York City. But like, it's just like looking at tickets home for Christmas. I don't know if I'm coming on for Christmas, everybody. I might just be, you know, eating my orange at home, my Christmas orange in my studio apartment because it is not cheap. How much? How much? Why it's not cheap. Like, like six hundred spit out some numbers, like five or six dollars. OK. Let me just help you here. I'm going to help you out. I like how I cast you into saying the numbers and then I interrupt you with that speech. It's not. Flights are expensive, it's flying around the holidays is super expensive. I know I just like every year it gets me every year, which is why it's really worth it. Just new family this much. I don't know. OK, imagine living in Puerto Rico, where everywhere is a minimum 10 hour journey. OK. And like 10 hours 10 hours. Sorry. Nashville is not that far from Puerto Rico. I went I made it work, and yeah, I'm very passionate about airline deals. I will say I got a deal. Yeah, I probably can. I probably can find you a do you find me, I'm very good at it. I got my flight home for I got my flight to Hawaii like much in advance. And it is now let's just say, like five five x in price. Yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry. One more little aside, this morning I called Delta because I'm trying to figure out like my Hawaii, you know, flight and I've not figured it out. But, you know, I decided to call Delta to see what they could help me with. And I kid you not Lauren. I called Delta at 8:40 this morning. Someone picked up immediately what it was. It was so jarring. I honestly, I didn't even complete the phone call or like, follow through with my transaction because I thought I was being scammed. Like I said, it's so funny. Isn't that so like I and I was this close to asking the guy like, Hey, can you like, confirm that you're actually a Delta representative? Oh, because like the fact that you picked up the phone after literally like I was probably like, I know I called you, but I want you to confirm prove to me that you're the real deal. OK, buddy, OK? Like also when he when he picked up the phone I like was in the middle of like chaotic traffic and I'm like, I'm so sorry, I didn't expect you to pick up this soon. So sorry, it's really loud. I was texting on hold for two hours. I like I specifically called it eight a.m. so that at 10 a.m., I could speak with a representative face time. He immediately or else I'm going to call the police and say, I've done Channel nine. OK, let's get in. Let's get into it, shall we? Let's begin our episode. I think we've complained enough. I think let's just start with quite possibly. You know, something that has rocked my world forever, and I can't even, you know, I didn't even go, I wasn't even there, but I haven't been horrified by something like this in a very long time. But we're talking about Astroworld for this past weekend. Something out of a truly dystopian nightmare. I mean, I was completely taken aback when I read the news and then when I actually read that when I read the descriptions of what people experienced there and I've been trying to kind of make sense of it because I knew we were going to talk about it on this pod. Yeah, I don't I don't know if I'm here with a ready conclusion for everyone, but I'm ready to talk through it with you. Yeah, I think like the entire world is still processing this and understanding like the situation. I don't know that anything like this has ever happened before, like this type of mass casualty, like where it wasn't like it's it's so dark to even like, you know, theorize or whatever. But like, you know, you're not. People usually don't. There's usually not a deaths at festivals like that aren't due to like drug use or to a shooter or, you know, some other terrible thing like this was just a truly horrific and to some degree, completely preventable. Yeah. Being surrounded by so many people is the reason why I have never wanted to go to a festival. I get that they're really feeling people love them. But being surrounded by so many human beings, it just seems like a recipe for some sort of chaos. Some, yeah, chaos that you can't get out of. And so it was almost like hearing, like my worst fear come to fruition. But anyway, let's walk. Let's walk our listeners through exactly what happened. OK. And I just want to say like. Obviously, mass shootings and drug use is preventable, but preventable is probably the wrong word to use. But I do think that this was like this was not like common things that you see happen. What happened here was not common at all or at all. Why would preventable have been a wrong word to use? Well, I just think that, you know, obviously if a shooter arrives and shoots. But there wasn't a shooter. No, I was just saying like, what? What was different about this was that this felt like completely preventable in the sense of like, you know, there was just the right safety precautions could have been taken and this could have been avoided. Versus, yeah, that's what's interesting. You know, and I think wreaking havoc. And yet that is what's interesting about the event is it's something that, given the same conditions, could just absolutely happen again, very easily. Like it's not something it's not you're right. It's not something where like, there was one bad actor like, sure, there's culpability. There's blame to be cast. There's accountability that needs to happen. But it's that is where I feel like I'm coming from a place of, you know, still trying to make sense of everything because there isn't one clear villain. It was almost like a lot of bad actors. The perfect storm of like bad actors, but not necessarily one person entirely responsible. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Can I just have to tell you I woke up in the middle of the night last night with a little bit of anxiety. I had half an early bird gummy, and I swear to you within 30 minutes, I was peacefully dozing off. Early bird CBD gummies are magic. They're truly magic. They are literally magic. I don't want to travel without them. I don't want to be without them. I think it's the twelve point five milligrams of CBD, two point five milligrams of THC. It's that little c**ktail. It gives you the warmest Julius fuzzy best feeling. It feels so good. It's so light. Also, one bottle last so long, it's a lot of product. Also, I feel like I prefer it to drinking at this point. Absolutely. You guys go to Earlybird CBD. Com Use Code Pop Apologists 20 for 20 percent off your order. You will not regret it. Earlybird CBD Icon Use Code Pop Apologist 20 So, OK, I will start the timeline with Friday last Friday. So at 3:30 a.m., fans begin lining up and this is pretty common, you know, especially for a festival where it's just first come. You know, like first time, you get the best seat. You know, if you're the first person to the front, you stay there. So basically, fans begin lining up at 3:30 a.m. on Friday, the morning of Friday. Hmm. So a concert worker told people told the New York Times that an estimated 1000 people were already waiting in line for the gates to open by 3:30 and just started arriving fully in the middle of the night. And then the gates opened at 10:00 and. What I was told am, I can't I can't confirm this, but I was told that also that there was an announcement made that they were going to open the gates even earlier, which I'm sure contributed to a lot of people showing up way earlier than, you know, the festival started. And just like a huge a huge crowd already forming essentially a day before any music happens. Mm-Hmm. So the chaos started Friday afternoon as the festival got underway Friday at 2:00 p.m. and dozens of people had already pushed through the gates and many were already trampled and knocked down. And just, you know, rushing barricades and just completely like taking down all of the like the safety measures that were in place. And I think what's interesting here is that it doesn't really seem like they were immediately, like made right or fix. We also have reports that on some at some point on Friday, the police chief, Troy Fenner. He says he met with Travis Scott and expressed his concerns about public safety at the event. And I'm a little bit skeptical of this. I guess I'm wondering, you know, is, was this just like a normal like, hey, it's you know, the concerns about start, here's the police chief. Just, you know, like, I don't know if that's just a quality or like, you know, just something that happens with big festivals where they're they meet, you know? To me, it seems like a convenient fact, but maybe that's just me being like, ultra skeptical. OK, yeah, continue. And he said he said that he asked, you know, Travis and his team to work with the Houston Police Department to prevent problems at the festival. Right. Like, I guess to me, I'm expecting to hear that, he said. Hey, there seems to be not enough met medical personnel or security personnel here. Like, I want a more specific concern to be, you know, to feel like this was like action was being taken by him. True action, at least versus him just saying like, Hey, you know this? I don't know. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I also so that's fine as my timeline goes on actual Friday before the show starts. But I want to just rewind actually a few more years to set the stage for some more. No pun intended. Some more context as to why, like Astroworld and the Cat and the tragedy that occurred, there was was an eventuality. Sadly. So actually, at the inaugural edition of Astroworld, three people were injured in a stampede in 2019 and which to me seems like unfortunate, but like common festival behavior. So like right, that that's just like a small piece of context. But then I think the most egregious thing and what? I'm not going to lie when when I first started seeing all the stories about it, I was like, Oh my gosh, this looks like a terrible festival gone wrong, like a festival tragedy. And what changed my mind and made me realize like, Oh, this actually might be a Travis Travis Scott problem more than just like, you know, a, you know, a festival thing or just like big event occurrence. Was that Travis Scott was actually arrested and charged with disorderly conduct in relation to his behavior at Lollapalooza in 2015. So six years ago, he, during his show, encouraged fans to climb over security barricades, ignore security workers and rush the stage at the concert. Right? Thank God, nobody then was injured. But like he has a pattern of totally disregarding and undermining security and and people there to help the concert go off smoothly. I think and then, yeah, go ahead. Well, I think that is I think that is actually the biggest problem and it should be great. And maybe this is and you know, you know, maybe this is the normal, you know, Billie Eilish, all these performers they get a talking to from from like representatives from Live Nation, from, you know, whatever. There is some sort of training where it's like, Hey, crowds of people are actually on some level weapons of mass destruction, like when you're commanding a crowd and you're talking to a crowd like serious damage can get done. If you're any encouragement of, you know, wild behavior, of violence, of any of this. You know, it's funny. It's like Donald Trump literally got taken off Twitter for inciting violence. I mean, it's not exactly what Travis Scott was doing. He literally was inciting violence, he said. I want to make the mother f ing ground shake encourages this kind of chaos, and I feel like on some level there should be like extreme training where these performers know that you actually cannot encourage that kind of behavior or you will have serious repercussions. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that one other factor in this is the way that Astroworld is marketed. I don't know if you saw any of those stories of like videos promoting it or anything. I mean, I don't even know what it was until this tragedy. I hadn't seen these before. I don't. I say, no, I don't. I've never really cared for Travis Scott's music, and I so I hadn't seen any of these promotional videos promoting Astroworld. But basically, like the footage is like, you know, it's this very, you know, UGC Ask or, you know, just like very like handheld camera like user videos, basically of people just rushing stages and crowds running. Yeah, yeah. Like and it's like set to like cool music. And it just feels very like chaotic, fun festival like, you know, you don't look at that and think, Oh, that's so scary. But it is literally like people running and and crowds climbing over barricades and hopping over fences. And it's like this, this very rushing. You know, I don't know, I just it's just just chaos and chaos and chaos. Like teens and teens and crowds of teens and chaos is how you could describe what it's like in a sex video looks kind of cool. Yeah. You know, it's just like. But then you realize like, Oh, this is like what the festival was supposed to look like to some degree. Right, right. Oh, interesting. So anyways, let's go back to the day itself. OK, so the day itself, he took the stage at nine pm, and apparently so it really started to what started. The danger was people starting to rush the stage in the first 15 minutes. So. And this makes sense, like if you're at the front of a crowd and you would just have a mass of people pushing like pushing you, pushing the people in front of you. Now I can understand that this idea of being crushed is because all these people are trying to get into one go in one direction, push towards one direction to the front of the stage. And there's literally just only so much space, right? So at nine 12, that's when the first there's the first footage showing people screaming for help, saying Help, please help. And Scott is still performing. Yeah. Twenty one minutes into the set, he pauses and hunches over and the crowd is shouting Help that shouting for a medic. And he responds by saying, Everyone put your middle finger in the sky. If you're ready to rage or because you're ready to rage, yeah, and he starts his next song. Mm hmm. I also just I want to say one thing because I think Travis Scott is to blame for this. I want to make that abundantly clear. I think, though, it is a lot to expect a performer to also be a crowd watcher and to know exactly what's going on in the crowd and right, right? It's honestly and especially with a venue of 50000 people like it's a lot to expect with the noise and the sounds like it is more to me on the lack of security than it is on Travis Scott for not seeing what was happening. And you know, and like the crowd is constantly trying to get his attention. Like, I just think that's a sensory overload experience as a performer. And it's maybe it is on them to be more aware. I don't know. But I just think that you can't place all the blame for that, that experience on him for not noticing because you can't even say that he could hear people screaming help. I don't know. Maybe he could. I'm not sure right now, so I think no one can really say what he knew and when he knew it. Right. And I think that maybe, maybe it's just being naive, but I highly, highly doubt he actually heard people screaming for help and he saw what was happening, and he continued the show. I just don't. Yeah, I just it's very hard for me to believe a human being would do that. I also feel like I've read reports where there was a point that he did point security to a situation he did. He did, yeah. So at one point during the show, he stopped performing because he saw someone pass out and he, like, pointed and said, I go like, Go help, Zach. He called for security. So that to me would say, like, OK, well, this is obviously not a person who doesn't care someone a sociopath. Right? Yeah. So anyway, it was one of the most jarring thing to read about, I think was like that firsthand accounts of being of being in the crowd because they talk about, like basically not being I don't know how you couldn't be able to breathe outside, but they felt like it couldn't breathe in the mass of people. They were being crushed and you would literally like it was so tight that if our arms were in the air, you couldn't bring them down. Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've been in some packed crowds before. You have OK. Yeah, so I've been in like I was trying to wrap my brain for what crowd this was. But I've been in some, like, pretty intense. Not even like I don't really. I don't mosh like that was. And this was a long time ago. But in the most packed crowds that I've been in, it is like, You cannot move. I can't. You can't really move your arms like you like. Not that I couldn't have brought them down, but like I couldn't. I did not have a full range of motion at all, really. And I it's a common thing to comment like, I'm I can't move and whoever is moving, doing the moving, it's not me. Like, I'm not moving myself right now, like the crowd is moving me. Oh, seriously. Like, you felt your body be moved by a crowd? Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Like that's that's very common to feel. And I haven't even been in some of the most intense crowds like I have friends who have been way more intense mosh pits or crowds where it's just like, you are. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you really are like at the mercy of the people of the sea of people. Oh yeah, can you? Yes. Yeah. Well, that was like what? I was so hard for me to really wrap my mind around because I'd never been in a crowd like that. I think I don't go somewhere unless I have a seat. I'm just, yeah, I've always been geriatric in that way. So to me, so. So that's another thing. Like when I hear about like crowds rushing, like I've experienced that to some degree. So I wasn't even really fully realizing the gravity of what was happening until I saw. And I don't want to talk about this for a very long time because to me, it's actually so graphic it like hurts my soul and heart. But seeing people crushed on the ground? What I've seen the pictures, seeing the pictures and video of people like I, I was watching a stories on Saturday morning and I clicked into one that's featured that and I like I had to immediately click out because I immediately knew what was happening, and it was too graphic for me to watch because it was just like. And also just the worst possible way to feel and, you know, and for some people to die. But in the end, 100 percent, I watched an account of a guy who saw someone I can't even like. He pulled someone out, gave them CPR. He luckily was able to pull one other person out. But he said that person was like gone at that point. And then he he he started, like, basically realized he needed to get out of there. Or else he he was like fearing for his own safety. So he had to to leave and just the trauma of the people, the countless people who were fighting to survive, who were literally stepping on other human beings, acting on other people their own lives, like because they're fighting for their own lives, like not out of their own choice, like like that. One person talked about how like you would get sucked into the into the bottom of the crowd, like you would get sucked downward as it like, swallowed you. I don't know. It's right. It's so incredibly traumatizing for everyone, including the people who survived. Right, right. Yeah, right. A nine year old is dead, apparently. I I lost. I'd seen what it was that the nine year old is in critical condition, but I didn't realize the whole condition now. So maybe that he yeah, it's it's horrific. It's totally horrific, and I think what's interesting is like, you know, Travis Scott, I think there, you know, there can be a lot of debate about what he knew when he knew it. But I also think that he has a history of inciting these crowds. Also, it's undeniable that there was a show he did where he was crowd surfing and someone pulled off his shoe. He literally gets back on the stage, and he encourages the crowd to f him up. FEMA, F.M. up here. It's like, like, literally encourages a crowd to beat someone, right? And then has the person taken away like, this is a person who obviously is comfortable with this isn't this is not. This is no angel. Let's be real about that. No, this is. Yeah. This year, I also want to say that if you follow house habitat or whatever house inhabits your house and have it, I always have such a hard time with that. She posted some videos of other performers seeing things happening in crowds and doing something about it, right? Like that video of Post Malone, who saw Girl Pass out and immediately gets off stage calls to security. Like, I just want to also acknowledge I think that was a much smaller venue. Like, there's there's a lot of other factors there, but like, you know, Kurt Cobain saw a woman being sexually assaulted. He stops a show, yells at the person, you know, and like, I think there are just types of performers that clearly care. And I don't think Travis Scott is someone who gives a single, you know, as aged. Right? Well, I mean, what about the camera operator who was clearly being told Stop the show that people are dying, people are dead. Stop the show by that girl who got up on stage and he didn't do it. He didn't do anything. He kept doing his job. I think I just also think that the camera operator is like a cog. And I think that crowds are insane. And it's hard to be like it's I don't think it's there. I don't think it's their fault. I think that I should agree. I don't think I think in that moment, you can not be a cog. You can decide that you're not going to operate the camera anymore. Like if you see this kind of chaos, if you hear people screaming for help, someone's get on to people, get up and are trying to alert you that people are dying. Like, I think that that's the point when you stop and think about the Apple Music streaming deal. Well, I'm just I mean, I when I say it, I mean, literally somebody who's just like all they do every day is just like, deal with crowds. And I think you become desensitized. Yeah, maybe. And I just I don't think, God, I don't think that this person like literally crowds or crazy this scream crazy stuff like you're talking about literally 50000, you know, or kids, right? And like, I just I mean, someone getting up on stage is, I do think that that takes it up a level. It's not just like someone screaming at you and you would hope that they had a radio or some way to signal, Hey, we need medical personnel. I also want to say that we don't know that that cameraman didn't try to do something, you know, the batteries of his or her ability. And like, it's from what it sounds like. Medical personnel was overwhelmed from the get go, and maybe they did radio like, Hey, you know, we need help an F-14 or whatever they were. I so I don't know. I to me, that's like less blame on that person. And I think, yeah, I think ultimately, whenever there's a tragedy, people just want someone to blame and something to blame and they want a career, just as we have done, like, Oh, this is how you can prevent it, because you want to prevent in your mind the idea that this could ever happen to you, right? I just want to say really quick, there's a lot of stuff being said about, you know, people are not speaking up where why are they so quiet about the Kardashians, which I have my thoughts on? Trust me. I also think that like I would like to see statements from every single Goldenvoice who owns Coachella, like every single big festival company needs to be talking about the fact that they're going to make, you know, adjustments and and take action to prevent this from happening. I think the entire music industry or live music industry is to blame for this and needs to, you know, be acknowledging that this is I mean, it just happened. I don't think that just happened to have been a Travis concert. I think there was like a lot of context there about why it did. But I think that the, you know, live music industry needs to, you know, take some responsibility. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And I just think when it comes to the Kardashians, it's so interesting that everyone is so angry at them and they seem to be like culpable here or people want them to be culpable. I just I personally think that the post that they did were tone deaf after like continuing with Kris Jenner birthday content, continuing promoting stupid Poosh articles, right? 100 percent. I think that's horrible. I also think that, you know, when Kylie posted that story, we can't know for sure that she didn't think the ambulance was just going was had picked up one person who'd passed out. We don't know what she knew in that moment. And like, what do you think about that? What do you think about all the people so angry at them? I think I just want to say that I think like you and I both like like the Kardashians. Yeah. And I think that people are eager to literally like vilify them at any second. And I'm so I'm just like being cautious of that like mob mentality that's literally happening, you know, on social media, just another mob mentality thing. So I think that I think of this weird that she posted a story with an ambulance and it's kind of like, maybe choose a different story to post or like that to me, I don't know. Like, there should be a little bit more filtering that goes on before you just post something. Thing. Mm hmm. And I think that like. The fact that here's what I think it means, the fact that Kris Jenner felt like or whoever was posting that, you know, the Kris Jenner birthday roses and all the other effing flowers that that family gets like the fact that they didn't realize the gravity of the situation. Yet every other person, myself included as like a a cog, you know, in pop culture, new Saturday morning that things were bad. The fact that they had not realized it, I think shows like that they were seriously. Out of touch slash not caring, didn't you? I don't think it mattered to them at all that like multiple people had died, and I also just think that these are not people. This is a family that, like, you know, really promotes their in-laws, and Travis Scott might and might as well be Kylie's husband. You know? Right. And I don't think that they even have a healthy amount of distance from Travis Scott. Like. And to me, it just shows it like, I mean, I was horrified Friday night and even Saturday morning just sitting and it was all over Instagram, it's not like I was just, you know, waiting for whatever was dropped, like it was everywhere. It was. It was everywhere. And they still did not care. And that, to me, is just like, to some degree, unforgivable. And, you know, I like them. But like, I'm kind of like, I don't know how I feel. I feel a little bit sick. I think for me, the idea that they just that Kim put out that post and then everyone else just reposted it like they just, Oh my gosh, yeah. Oh, like, that's enough. Like, why doesn't everyone? I mean, I think Kendall put up something. But I think it's not enough that people are just reposting the, you know, five sentences am right. There needs to be like, we are going to work with every single family family, like we are going to cover any costs associated, like we are going to pay for the funerals like we are doing everything we can. This is a horrible tragedy. Like, people need to feel their pain and their the fact that they are under attack. And you know, it was just to me, it was traumatizing for too many people. And it was traumatizing for 50000 people. And that's just like a huge deal. It's not like there was just like something went awry at a random little concert. Like 50000 people have like literally will probably never be the same again because of what they saw inside and. And we knew that that it was a serious situation. Like, I think we even knew that eight people had died like the next day. Right? Oh, sure. Yeah. Injured. And so it's just I just, yeah, it. They just did not. There's no plausible deniability in my head about like their behavior the next day and how tough it was, right? For sure. I want to actually discuss this with you because I feel like, OK, so we just were talking about, you know, Travis and Kylie and the Kardashians and culpability and blame and accountability, all that kind of stuff. And I think that what's interesting about it is I just feel like there is such a propensity to want to vilify people and make people, especially people who we see as successful and happy as the actual villains. Does that make sense like I feel like I wouldn't like I feel like, like Erika Jayne, for example? Yes, she did a lot of very tone deaf posts. She has not acted well. Very poor PR, right? But the way people just have just want to see her as the villain here when there's nothing actually telling us should any clue of what was going on. I just think it's interesting. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think it's also I agree. I think it's human nature with celebrity, right? It's like not saying it's right, but I think it's also just human nature. I think since the beginning of time, it's schadenfreude. This is the way people want. Yeah. Like, people just want to see when something tragic happens. People want to see justice, right? And people also something that they like. Blushes, I think people also enjoy seeing the fall. Like people like seeing people and their demise, like they like seeing the yeah, the tumbling from, well, from any sort of height. Agreed. Agreed. And I think there's just enough in terms of this particular situation. There are a lot of people who hate the Kardashians and who think that they are awful, awful people. You and I are, you know, are not that great. But I do feel like this experience has made me feel like less great about like mom. But people literally want to see them like burning for this, and I don't think it's I don't think it's their fault. Yeah, it's Travis Scott's fault 100 percent. It's not their fault. Like, so it's hard to be like, why are you? You know, it's just it's they need to not be tone deaf. And I think they were tone deaf. But it's not their fault. Right, right. Do you wanna talk Jen Shah at all? Do you wanna talk? Beverly Hills reunion Let's talk about Beverly Hills reunion, because it sounds to me like you've had a little bit of a shift with Erica. Yeah. You know, I think that I was convinced I was convinced after this last reunion that she did not know anything about what was going on. I do believe that when she said that she wouldn't be on a reality show, she wouldn't be writing songs like It's Expensive to be me or performing those songs. I was convinced of that. Like it seemed probable that hit home for me, that hit home for you, that that absolutely hit home to me. I felt like she, you know, said something that really unlocked, like some logic to who to what had happened or what she claims it has had, which was why. That exact same age, she said that I literally was like, I was like, oh, I was like, That's a very good point. Why would she? She's under a microscope, which is why it's crazy to me that Jen Shah was ever on a reality TV show knowing that she was fully in on, you know, which I guess goes to show. Maybe that invalidates what she said and who knows, you know, who really knows? There's something, though, about it. There's something very different about Jen Shah than there is about Erika Jayne. Like the difference there is. Erika Jayne is the spouse of an effect of very famously wealthy person. They have the $13 million home in Beverly Hills. They have all that stuff. They're in that echelon of society. Yeah, there's no real proving anything right. Whereas Jen Shah is the one who's renting these extremely opulent homes and trying to shove her wealth down everyone's throat wants everyone to know exactly what she has. This is more of a motivation for Jen to really destroy. You know, if she's driven by this very ego place, there's more of a motivation for her to be on the reality show and kind of hope that no one ever figures out what's going on with her business. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've been rewatching season one because Ben has started watching it and just looking at once again the large Versace necklaces that she's wearing, it's the most garish style and it's just like insane to me that she was flaunting it like that. I mean, and still continues to in this most recent season. Yeah. And of the same cut from the same cloth is Mary is Mary Cosby, who's who generally wears there's not a square inch on that body that's not covered with some sort of, you know, luxury insignia and write what you know, whatever it is, there is so much designer constantly on that woman and the idea that she's like a leader, a religious leader that people think she's like next to Jesus is, yeah, that chick is is crazy, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Did you see? Have you watched the most recent episode? Yes. Did she go off on Whitney? Yes. Did you watch it? I have not I have not watched, but I saw a quote with all the things that she's texted Whitney. Yeah, I was just like, aghast. I know. So like what? This is like a so horrible. I guess. I thought Mary was just kind of like absurd and harmless. No, not it like actually, she's like an evil, evil person. And like you're saying, the fact that people think that she is like, you know, a representative of deity, huh? Well, and that's what's so hilarious is I personally think that, yes, like I'm not a Lisa Barlow fan. I think that you know what she pulled with Angie was not cool at all. But I think that it's hilarious to me that Lisa Barlow is is really shaping up to be the villain of the season, or probably will be when Mary is the one. I think that has the most proverbial blood on her hands like prop or, I guess, other than Jen. Right. Right? Has I think I guess my point is I think people are afraid of Mary to come after too afraid of her to come after her. Yeah. Yeah. Except for Jenny. Right, right. Right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Oh, it's really good, it's a really good episode. Apparently, Andy said that the next episode of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City is the best episode of Real Housewives ever to be created. You're kidding. The best episode of Housewives is OK. The episode after she's arrested. OK. Wow, OK. Yeah, you have to watch. I just want to say, OK, now I'm going to catch up. Do you want to talk a little about BPR? Yeah, let's talk about the interim rules. So you guys, we do have a Vanderpump Rules, you know all about Vanderpump Rules pitcher on special episode that came out this last week. It's like a full hour and a half, almost. So if you want a full breakdown of all of our thoughts, head up the patron links in the show notes Continue, Chandler. Mm hmm. OK. Well, I'm caught up. I watched on the plane, and I have to say one one thing that really stuck out to me. James's speech to Raquel about how her plastic surgery is going to affect him, I know I was surprised to see that more of a thing but continue. Right. Thank you. So this whole season, I've been like, wow, look at James, he's really sweet to Raquel. He clearly loves her. You know, I've been kind of like warming up to him after seeing that. I am so A.J., I know. And if I were Rickles family, I would be, you know, texting her in all caps all day every day, saying, pull the plug. This is a monster. Like the idea that he's comfortable saying that on camera like. So basically, it let me just set the scene. People who haven't seen it. They are. If it is a boxing class, which, by the way, Lauren, did you know that I've trained with that guy who was their boss? No, no way. That's so funny. Yeah, he he used to like work at a gym in Westwood, and I could go with my friend Kelly, and he was one of the trainers. It was great. Anyways, they finish like a boxing class for James anger. Then they sit down and she's talking about how Lisa Vanderpump has offered to take her to see her, her plastic surgeon because Rappelle had a nose job and it didn't turn out right. You know, it's a little bit like a crooked and a which is like to me. Very brave of her to go on the next season of EPR with like a nose job that she is not happy with. Wow. I personally don't. I don't know. It's still it still looks great. I wouldn't have even noticed. I just think that that would bring me a lot of like in total. But yeah, I wouldn't have even noticed. She also says that James bumped her nose, which I've had a nose job. My little cousin, like, headbutted me when I was holding her like a couple of months after. It was the most intense pain I've felt in my whole life. It felt like literally my skull was cracked open. I thought I'd like I went black. Yeah. Anyways. Back to the matter at hand, they're sitting outside. She's talking about how she was going to go see Lisa Vanderpump, sergeant and James says, you know, just so you know, Raquel, this is really going to affect me if this goes wrong, personal or physical attraction is really big to me. It's Imo's douche bag comment you could possibly make as a boyfriend. Absolutely. It's the worst thing you could say to someone which you're just like, Hey, by the way, if you don't keep, keep it up. If you don't look as good as you do now, I'm probably not going to be into you. Which is hilarious because I think Raquel is basically like a 10 on a 10 person super sweet, right? Very kind. Seems like a really good human being is also just completely stunning. James, to me, is like a three. Maybe the idea? He's like a three. And then on a good day, he's like a five, looks wise. Yeah. If you're into like, yeah, if you're into, yeah, I I couldn't even say that because I think his personality is so disgusting, right? But it's like, it's so disgusting. It's just I would be if that was my daughter, I would be like, Are you her pearls before swine Raquel? Its pearls before swine? I know, right? Oh, I know. Meaning she's the pearl. I just had to talk to you about that because, right, absolute swine. But yeah, I just had to talk to you. I thought because I was sitting there like shook that he shook it, that he said that and then also shook that he was saying it on camera. One of the one of the things like, I yeah, I just I really appreciate like I feel like in my relationship, it doesn't matter if I'm five pounds up, five pounds down. Like whatever, I don't feel like I ever get any sort of commentary or or anything else. I feel like the attitude should be totally neutral, you know? Right. Neutral, positive, yes, neutral, positive, always and not net. No, not nit picky. And the idea that James feels like he's entitled to it was like, right, like he should be saying the lecturing of her. You are stunning. You're summing now. I'm sure whatever happens, you will look beautiful. You know, it's going to be great. And I don't think you need to stress about that. I'm going to be just fine. Yeah, yeah. Are saying, I don't even notice what you're talking about. Like, you know, I think you're like, Yeah, exactly all the things you're saying. And I'm like, You know, what can the woke mobs go after James because he deserves to be vilified? That's I know. Cancel James Kennedy. Cancel Travis Scott. Cancel James Kennedy. Oh, please, please. I mean, anyways, please. Yeah. James is what James is probably one of the worst reality TV show people that we've seen. He's just so incredibly and he's sober and still such a problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Still saying off. Also, let's just take stock of all the terrible, you know, fat phobic things, he said this this season about Max. They are like, This is a truly despicable human being, everybody. The idea that my partner got angry and started speaking negatively to someone about their appearance, I couldn't even fathom it. Like it, right? Right? Like, I'm sorry. But if anyone I if I knew I was friends with did that, I would just be so incredibly horrified. And. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's a special kind of just nastiness anyway, right? It's been a little bit of a bleak episode. Sorry, but this is just, you know, real talk. Jen, what are we talking about on the page on this week? Lauren, what are we talking about? We're not sure about. We will have a major. Jen, we'll talk about John Charles call. Maybe. Yes, because that's interesting. The last scene is really, really good, obviously. So we need to talk about it once you've watched it. But we will be getting into more on the page on new episode dropping this Friday. The link to sign up is in the show. I have one thing that's going to take 30 seconds that I wanted to say, but I don't know if you're going to say it. I found some tips for staying safe in big crowds. If you want me to talk about them, but you might have to, I don't know if it's going to be annoying for you to, like, put it in here. What are there? Are they funny or interesting? No, they're just like helped freed. Let's read, let's go for it. Let's get peoples on to OK. I'll just say that I'll just give it a top line it if you're ever in a crowd that is, you know, uncontrollable. What they say to do is to actually move with the crowd, don't try to fight it and to move with it. Don't try to like, you know, like, resist it. And then also, they say, to like, adopt a boxer stance to like and to keep your arms up to kind of like up above your face to give yourself a little bit of room. Anyways, I thought that was helpful. And then if you do fall down, go into the fetal position, you serious, go into the sorry. That's what it says. You have to protect your head, OK? Oh my God. I got to go now. Yeah, I don't think. I think if you were in that position, don't leave it in. OK, yeah. OK, right, OK. All right. Thanks for listening, everybody. I was like, Where I listen to this one episode of apologies, I got to get in the boxers trying to be helpful. No. Last time I'm ever helpful. OK, goodbye. Love you. That's all for now, folks. Don't forget. Give us a five star review. Hit us up on Instagram at pharmacologists, and we will see you next week. Live every Wednesday. Do you ever worry about running out of interesting things to say to friends when you actually get to see them? Then we've got the perfect podcast for you. I'm Eve Yo Hallam and each week on Book Dreams, my co-host Julie Sternberg and I use books to explore fascinating questions like what happened when a Harvard professor staked her reputation on an alleged gospel of Jesus wife that turned out to be fake. And how did debut author Tom Lynn save the American Western by blowing it to bits? Are pigeons, rats with wings or wonder birds? And what's the who, what, when, where, how and especially why? Of books bound in human skin recent. An upcoming book Dreams Highlights include conversations with Booker Prize winning author Marlon James, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Kathryn Schulz and Merlin Scholar Dr. Laura Campbell. You can listen to book Dreams wherever you get your podcasts.