Transcript
The nation's favorite car buying site, Dundeele Motors, is home to the largest range of new and premium used cars from all of Ireland's trusted car dealerships. That's why you'll find Frank Keane BMW on Dun Dundeele. Visit the Frank Keane BMW showroom on Dundeele to find your next car. Dundeele Motors, for confident car buying and deals to feel great about from all of Ireland's trusted car dealerships. Visit dundeale.ie today. This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is the James Altiger Show. Today on the James Altiger Show. Boy, Gary Kasparov answered a lot of my questions. First, he's launched a new platform, Kasparov Chess, which allows playing with other people, playing with the computer, solving puzzles, taking lessons, learning from thousands of educational videos. I've been learning more about chess using the videos on his platform, so check out cashbroofchess.com. But he also answers questions about how he trained, how Magnus Carlsen trained, what's the difference between players now and players of his generation who was world champion for 20 years or almost 20 years and now Magnus Carlsen is world champion. He answered questions about who he thinks might be the next world champion, adult improvement in different ways than the younger generations, and it's just so interesting. So if you enjoy this episode, write a review and check out Casper of chess. This is one of my favorite interviews. So Gary, I'm a beta user of Kasparov chess. I really love it. It's different from chess.com and lead chess, and we could talk about that. What got you interested in starting your own platform? And let me just actually, let me just qualify one bit. Since the TV show The Queen's Gambit, you know, chess.com has experienced, like, unbelievable amount of sign ups. They have 64,000,000 members now. More people are watching chess on Twitch than even watching Fortnite. And adult there's a whole area, and I am one of them, of adult improvers in chess that have come back to chess after, you know, I spent 30 years ago, I spent a lot of time on chess, but then, you know, life happens and you don't spend it. And now coming back as an adult improver trying to get back to where I was, it's it's amazing how many new resources there are. And then when I go on Kasparov chess, I just I just love it how you're bringing in the culture of chess and documentaries about chess and the lessons. I took a lesson from Anish Giri yesterday on, you know, video lesson on aggressive ways to counter e 4. I just it was great. I loved it. But what what got you into doing this? What what inspired you to do Kasparovchess? Yeah. I I wish I could tell you the queen's gambit, and I also have to remind, you know, our listeners that I I was a key consultant on chess issues and also on the Soviet side, you know, of of of the series. But, we started this project, I would say ages ago by modern standards. Was originated many years ago when we, had a grand chess tour event in London with Maxime Basil de Graaf, playing very well and almost winning it. He's a leading French player. And I should mention you have a documentary about him on Casper of chess. Yeah. He was he he he at that time, he was a he was a rising star, and, and the French believed that he could be he could challenge Magnus. Unfortunately, it didn't materialize, but he's still one of the top players. The result of this event in London in 2015 was that, the the French sponsor of, MBL, Maxima Chelegraf invited us to Paris to talk to Vivendi, about having, a grand chest tour event in Paris. And, and, you know, and for the last 5 years, we had this event in Paris as as a part of grand chess tour. And, and it happened that, some of the some of the top people in the Vendee, they were big chess fans. The the number 2 guy in Vivendi, Steven Russell, you know, who played in our, fun competition, you know, when we had a grand master and a chess chess amateur, you know, joining, you know, as a team. So, we had a very good reception from Vivendi there, and they were interested on expanding this corporation. And naturally, we talked about chess platform. So it all goes back to 2017. But, again, things, you know, move slowly. It's a big corporation, and and we look for so for several options because we also had a granches to Saint Louis. That's that's that's one of the elements that we wanted to bring into into the loop, and that's that's it. And it also took time. And, we eventually, you know, formalized all the agreements and and had a concept because it's, entering this field is not, you know, is not an easy task because as you said, it's crowded and you have, among many, many players, you have 2 giants, chess.com and now Magnus chess, former chess 24. So competing with them, you know, need, requires a good strategy. And, and that's why our original plan was from day 1 to concentrate on the area where we could actually beat the competition. And that's about education. It's about learning. It's about legacy and, you know, making sure that, you know, we can bring this entertainment and educational elements together. And, and I have to say that the, the success, phenomenal success of, the Queen's Gambit was a big help because, the our concept of doing these lessons, you know, on a Netflix format, it's not now it's, makes people, you know, feel feel home because now they all of a sudden, they see something that that, resembles their experience with with the series. And, the plan was to actually launch everything last year, but pandemics, you know, made big changes. So for instance, I've been planning to record a master class, a new master class, and I will just come back a bit later just describing the structure of this new master class because one I did 4 years ago in 2017 proved to be very successful. But I knew how to make improvements, and, again, we already prepared everything for March 2020. I had to spend a week in Paris, recording it, but we all know what's happened in March 2020. You know, the the the whole world, you know, went on, you know, went crazy. It was locked down. So, we just had to reorganize our plans, and everything was slowing down. I still was I was still recording my, podcast episodes as a substitution for for master class, but, but we had to, we had to postpone or delay all our plans about the launch. So, now we again, with with with 1 year delay, so we we are, you know, we we're we're we're about to start a major action. So so, Gary, let me ask you first. Why do you think The Queen's Gambit TV show inspired so many people, a, people like me to come back to chess, and, b, even people like my daughters who have never played chess in their lives, suddenly they're logging on to chess.com and reading, you know, basic books on chess and trying to learn? Like, what what was what was what was it about the Queen's Gambit during the pandemic that inspired so many people? You said during the pandemics. Naturally, you know, pandemics helped, you know, to make this series more more popular and and, audience more receptive to the to the to the to to the show. But I think the the the key element, the the key factor of the success, was a story behind it. Story, that's what people want to hear, and it's we're now being fed by all sorts of sci fi and then and fantasy, and it's just or some extreme stories. Here is this now, it was, you know, it was fairly normal. I mean, this is you had an orphan girl from Kentucky. So that's the when you look at all these components that made all of a sudden, you know, that's the the great story that's created chemistry, fantastic chemistry, they're all natural. So people can easily identify themselves with Beth Harmon, with other, you know, members or other characters there because, again, it's this is it's it's American, of course, but it's still it's they're ordinary people. It's a and, and also the show succeeded in presenting the psychological tension of the game. So this is it's the you could feel, you know, how how they just, you know, they're concentrated. So and, again, this is something that people sitting there in their homes, and, and they they they are being dragged in. This is a big big battle. So you you don't need to be on the baseball field or or or soccer field, you know, to feel this tension. So, it's and, again, it's a success of an underdog, and it's not just a success of the underdog. You know? It's chess for long. You know that is for long had this very, I would say, questionable reputation. You know? There's this people were afraid that if the kids play chess, it could, somehow hurt their mental stability. You know? You can you can become, you know, dizzy, you know, just, you know, and, and and the life is getting blurry because you're, overwhelmed by these, by these pieces. And and, and, you know, stories, you know, from from the great literature, like Nabok Nabokov's illusion defense or Yeah. Stefan Zweig, you know, chess novel. And, of course, Bobby Fischer. So the the there were so many examples where chess contributed to this kind of mental instability. And, somehow this image, you know, has been preserved over decades. And, I've been fighting, you know, all my professional life, and and even afterwards, you know, as a retired player to to push, you know, the opposite image. And here it comes. Chess did not destroy best harm on to the contrary. It helped her to to, survive, in her battle against against, her dependence on substances. So it gets this is she could overcome her dependence on green peels and alcohol and, you know, she she actually grew as a character. So again, when you start adding all these elements, you know, it's it's again, it's a chemistry. So you still need luck, but I think the many elements were there already. And pandemics basically now just, you know, put them together, you know, just it's like merge them in in in in a mega successful story. Again, you mentioned Kasparov chess has competitors and, like, take chess.com. It's a great and and by the way, one competitor was a chess platform I helped start back in 90 in the early nineties, which was the Internet chess club. But on your recommendation, I started using chess.com, and it's phenomenal. And so how do you you know, in terms of playing, even in terms of connecting with coaches and teachers and streamers, chess.com has a lot of content. I feel Casper of Chess has more pure content, but how do you see yourself as a real differentiator? Look. Again, we, I had to know just have to remind, you know, the audience. I had and a failed experience, 2 decades ago with Casper of chess original Casper of chess, you know, from 99 to 2001. And many many of the ideas that have been, you know, introduced then, you know, so they're playing a role now. But technology was not there. The Internet boom was over, and, we simply couldn't catch the audience. And, now the technology helps us because it's not only, you know, the improvement, you know, with with with presentation, but also it's the, on the receiver side. So people now can actually follow this from many other devices. So the environment is much better. But, again Yeah. Over the last 2 decades, we had much stiffer competition. But, I think that this you you you use word pure content. It's you know, I think we we we can do a better job by actually attracting people of different levels because the idea is that you will enjoy, you will be entertained, you will be learning, about chess no matter your it's it's irrespective to your experience or strengths. So that's why we we will be using, you know, the, 8 different categories. So starting from the beginner, that's roughly, you know, 1,000 to, masters. It's 22100. So that's we want to make sure that, you know, everybody will have, you know, his or her, you know, place, in the system. And that's what I learned, you know, after doing the, original master class, 4 years ago as I mentioned, because it's the the concept at the time, did not didn't have space for for this, for the grades. And I had to struggle to make sure that, you know, I can squeeze as much information as I can, you know, in this roughly certain to 1700, window. This is using rating with few elements for people who who were, you know, above this 1700. Now, my master class will be divided into 3 categories, beginners, so the, advanced players and and strong players, club level and higher. And and the the the way we will present the lessons, so we'll, connect them to the to the puzzles, and you'll be always, you know, you'll be always rated, so within your section. So it's clearly that, you know, this this site will help you to, to navigate in the friendly waters. And, also, the we we are introducing more of the video content, said this Netflix format, and that is what people want. You know? They want more, you know, more physical contact. They want to see that the on other side, you don't have a robot or just, you know, a a a live lifeless chessboard, but someone, you know, like Anish Giri or Maxim Bashe Leggraff, or Almira Skrypchenko. So we have we already have, 88, masters, ambassadors who, who joined who joined, Gasparov, and we're going to expand it. We have, 700, I think, just 7 50 lessons recorded now, and, and there's more to come. And, it's, you know, it's it's yeah. The it's an I I have to mention also 52,000 puzzles, and they will begin. We'll be adding more and more of them. But, as I said it in my, in my, you know, very brief introduction, I said, it's it's it's my legacy, now build yours. We want people get to feel that they're part of community. That's also an element that I think it's missing in our our side other sides because they're big and, and you feel like, you know, just a a pawn in this in this ocean of, of events. And, we want to make sure that everybody will will will find his or her way to to establish to establish their own legacy, on on, on our side. It's interesting because on some of these other platforms, the focus is on play, which I know, you know, there's a there's a the the play section on Casper of Chess as well. You could play other players. But it took me I was on chess.com or lead chess for over a month before I realized there was forums, and the forums were I don't want to say they were low quality, but they were just sort of random. And I think if you have forums where you're you're moderating it with moderating them with strong players and and really directing the discussion and answering questions and things like that. That would be very powerful, I think, for the community. Absolutely. So look. Chess playing zones, they they it it's it's a must. You you must have it, and, and you can make improvements. And, and, I I know that we're trying to make sure that, you know, there will be there will be, there are, few of few of bugs because you always have to to to to work, you know, just with just making all these improvements. The it will have a strong anti anti cheating system, but you cannot beat other other platforms on on playing zone. And, it it takes time. I mean, I think the by the way, this the the best playing zone, I think it's it's it's it's leeches. I'm glad you say that because that's where that's where I'm the highest rated. So I'm glad you said leeches. No. It's the no. It's the, I think it's it's the most sophisticated one that, you know, just it's the most resilient to to to cheating and and add virtually no bugs. But, at the end of the day, it's just people are not only to play, and that's what that's what we want to emphasize. It's just it's it's community sense. And that's why the contacts are very important. I mentioned just our ambassadors, but I also have to say that I will be there personally. So this is I will spend at least 5 hours every month, you know, on on the site just talking to people, making presentations, maybe moving the pieces, you know, playing with Samsung. That's just some of the, some of the lucky winners of the of our sweepstakes. So, it's very important that this contact is there. So I think it's this is it's there should be always interaction between between, the site and the the platform and and the customers. And we also having some kind of a hotline that will allow customers to to submit their proposals. Yep. It will help us to eliminate bugs, but also we won't decide to have this interactive element and to always be, you know, at the cutting edge. So we want to make sure that everything that is happening there, you know, is up to the satisfaction of of our audience. Well, I've been really impressed with the lessons you have on there because there's there's various platforms have good lessons like chessable.com and so on. But to get some a player of the quality of Anish Giri, as just as an example, I mean, I just watched the candidates tournament. He did very well on that. And then to to to watch a video lesson from him where just right away I was learning incredible things I never knew before. And to just have that essentially free on the platform, that was really great. And I haven't seen that on other platforms. I know there are videos on other platforms, but there it's not a focus of these other platforms. But let me ask you this. What do you think I a lot of adults now, like me, but millions of others, are coming back to chess and asking, can I improve? It's a new world now. These young kids are the the masters are getting younger and younger. The skills are getting, you know, the the ability to get skills is improving because of computers and so on. I come back to this whole new world. And then I also realize my memory is not as good, my calculating is not as fast. Like, do you think adult improvement is possible? Oh, absolutely. It's the so what's, what's what's wrong with with us? Adults. You know? I'm 58, so just, learning new things. So, I, you know, I think it's it's it's at in our in our age category, what is important is for us to feel good about it. So this is as long as we're being entertained, so we're happy to digest new information because, look, there's so many things you can do. And if if this is boring, you know, and if it's just teaching, yeah, I think it just you know, it's somehow it will it might hurt our pride, so we don't want to be taught. But if you can do it, you know, just in a way that it's it's entertaining, it's a video. By the way, you mentioned the videos, high quality videos. This is most of these lessons recorded in in a professional studio in Paris. And as we want to keep this quality, again, it's this is the as part of chess, we'll we'll we'll try to win the audience by the quality of the presentations, both by the content and also the wrapping paper. So because, you know, making it pleasant for your eyes and just, making you feel good, this is a very important, element of of winning winning the the hearts of of of the audience. And I, think that is while we we will be building special, programs for kids, and I just, you know, I'm planning, you know, just eventually to introduce, the old idea that come that comes back to to to the original sport of chess 20 years ago. It's the world's school chess championship. But right now, we want to make sure that adult audience will be very comfortable. And I think that there's so many ways we can we we, to to to make them feel good. And, as we already, discussed, the the queen's gambit, you know, just, open this appetite for learning chess, and, we'll they'll do our utmost to capitalize on this new, opportunity. So how do you think how do you think adult learning is different from kids who are learning? So let's say kids, they memorize these opening variations very well. They they they calculate they solve a lot of tactical puzzles, so they calculate fast. I feel like you what what what is there a difference? What is the difference? Like, what are the best ways for adults to learn? Look. The the course is a difference because, you know, for kids, learning is natural. So that's they they they they learn about life. So that's why if, you know, they can learn music, they can learn chess, they can learn swimming, they can learn whatever. So this is it's this is this is this is how that life being built and, and it's and their brains just, you know, they they are now they're open to, to, find new information to sort of, they're always hungry for new information. That's that's life. Now with us, it's different because we are overloaded with information. So and, and for us to learn something new, again, we have to be we have to be really encouraged. Unless you are encouraged, again, this is that's the I I can watch a, you know, a movie or I can read a book, but but learning new things, you know, it just it's will not happen unless you feel that, you know, it's, it's so good. It's so just it's just, you need to to feel the engagement. So that's as you're engaged, and it's somehow, you know, it will it will, make your life a bit more exciting. So you you add some new angles, to to you to to to your routine life. And, and that's that's what I think, you know, is happening now with chess. And, again, Casper of chess will be there to help people feel good about, learning. And do you think like, right now I mean, when you were, the you became the world champion and you were the youngest world champion ever. And now you see people getting younger and younger as they get to that level of ability. Like, you have I mean, Carlson is 30, and he's already saying things like, oh, I used to calculate faster when I was younger. And he doesn't think he'll be playing professionally when he's 40, whereas you went on well past 40. And now you have also people like Alireza Farooza, who's 18. Like, all these younger players are getting to that almost that 28100 level so young, what what's changed? Like, how like, I remember, you know, you look at the fifties, you know, people like or or even earlier, you look at the 20 Emmanuel Lasker was world champion for 27 years. He was he was playing professionally in his sixties. Like, what's happened over the past century that has pushed down the level of elite grand master solo? And this happened in many fields, not just chess. Look. Life is getting faster. I'm sure that for people, at the end of the 19th century, the beginning of 20th century, life also looked fast compared to what's what's happening before. So it's the, they can move around. So they had transatlantic, ships, new fast trades that could cross, you know, the continents. But if you look at the chess calendar in Lasko's time, so he didn't play many tournaments. He could, you know, he could have couple of years without even just, you know, playing one event, one game, one series game. So, and that's why, you know, he could, he could, preserve energy and just play chess, competitively, you know, just until, his, sixties. So, it's I think it's the he was 66, when he just had his, last successful event in Moscow and and one of Moscow international tournaments. Even just when just you look at the next generation, like, but Vinic. But Vinic could keep his title until he was, 5052. But still, you know, it was it was relatively slow motion, calendar. But Vinik could also, have a year or 2 without without being actively engaged in in in in just competitions. Then you move to to to to the next generation of champions, you know, like Spassky and Fischer, and they're quite getting younger. So, Karpov became world champion at the age 24. So I became world champion at age 22, which was quite an exception at the time, but but already in the nineties, we saw young players. And, and they you know, it was my my challengers, like, Nigel Short was, I was 28 when he challenged me in 93, and Vishen Hunt was, 26 when he challenged me in 95. So that's a new generation of players, but but the the the rhythm of of, chess competitions changed dramatically. It just, you know, it is they had to play more and which means, you know, you needed more energy, more stamina. It's it's not that you could go on forever. So, I I knew already in the nineties that probably I would, quit chess, in in my mid forties. Actually, I did it when I just, just before I turned 42 because it just, you know, required so much time for preparation. And and also you I didn't have the same, you know, the same excitement by by by going in this in the whole process. Because for me, chess was not just about winning, but, about making the difference. And I knew at the time that, you know, I almost exhausted my ability to make the difference. So, yeah, I changed so many things in the game of chess. I introduced computers into the preparation. So, and I thought, okay. That's that's enough. And, probably, it was a very good choice because the game actually even was speeding up. It's the, I was playing one one of my last tournaments in 2004 and faced young Mangus Carlsson. So that's that's probably was it is good opportunity because I could beat him at the time. So yes. Yes. I was yeah. He was 14. Yeah. Actually, he was he was not even yet yet 14. He was turning 14 that year, and I was, 41. So it's the and, and, in the last 15 years, we saw even, you know, just even further increase of this of this pace. There are more events. They play, play, play, play. They need more preparation. But, also, computers, they are just forcing, players to to to fully concentrate on on their preparation and just to make sure that they will not be victims of the superior preparation of the opponent of their opponents. So, life changed, chess has changed, and it's not surprising. And, and that's why, you know, having younger players making inroads, it's a very natural process. So you mentioned Alireza Firozia. So, great talent. So he's just turned 18. And if you look at the time frame, so that's the that probably, you know, the most, likely next champion, because he's 12 years younger than than than Magnus. Again, it's it's there's no it's it's not carved to the stone. This is not, you know, something that, you know, you you can guarantee by saying, oh, here is this is the player who is gonna be next world champion. But, you know, this is generation wise. You know, you see that's the that's this this teenagers, they are, coming in. And, and I, I think this process, it's it's, you know, it's inevitable. And, and, I think most of the most of the players in their thirties, they will, you know, they will be facing very tough challenges. And I doubt very much that they can they can survive in this, so never ending quest by by younger players that are just trying to replace them. And when Magnus says that he would, quit, you know, when he's 40 or so, I mean, he understands realistically that, while he's still a dominant force in chess and, is still playing some phenomenal games, he is making mistakes. He is making blunders. He's just, you know, he's not he's not as impeccable as he used to be, several years ago. So this is what I mean, like, about, you know, adults who are coming back to the game or adults who wanna learn the game. What what is different? Like, why do when when you're older, your your brain is no longer like a machine. You have to kind of deal there's more it goes from knowledge to wisdom, say. Like like, how do you teach the wisdom as opposed to just teaching the knowledge that these kids are absorbing? Yeah. But but but but let's separate, you know, this is the professional chess players and and and and adults who are chess fans. I have plenty of wisdom. So that's just if you ask me, you know, how you should play here or there. So I think I in in my philosophy or even in some tech solving some of the problems, I could probably compete even with with with Magnus. Probably. Yeah. So this is definitely philosophy, But I I could see tactics when I'm sitting here in front of my computer or, you know, or a chessboard. But then even when you play, you know, that's a different story. It's about concentration. This is about your instincts. You know? That's just and and look, I have other things. I have family. I have kids. I have other yeah. This is your mind is overloaded, and it's and you cannot just switch it off. This is not a your mind is not, you know, it's not, a computer. And then you can say, okay. Fine. Now I just, you know, I I I download another program. So and and, you know, I put this one to sleep. No. So this is the to switch off, you know, other brain activities and to concentrate on chess by making sure that, you know, a 100% or at least, you know, just it's considerable portion of your, mental energies concentrate on the game of chess is impossible. So that's why, you know, I I I've been playing, you know, chess for fun for many years now since I left professional chess. And I know that, you know, this it's every year, you know, I could see that it's just, you know, it's it's it's getting weaker and weaker. So I did better, you know, just in in, since I left professional chess. So in 2009, 2010, I I just played a little bit, and I just I felt, you know, was you know, I felt quite good about it. 2015, 2016, and you could see this. It's it's all, you know, going down. The the for me, that's the the big point was when I played Caruana, the 960 chess, the official chess, and, you know, I I would play him in most of the games. And this and then but the terrible blunders. I couldn't stop blundering pieces. Were you upset at yourself? Were you getting angry at yourself? Okay. Now, I, I used to be very upset when I lost, you know, and it's and it's but but now I I I understand this inevitable. This sense of inevitability. Of course, I'm upset, you know, just it's the but at the end of the day, I cannot fight nature. I cannot fight time. So I I know people are people enjoy always enjoy watching me at the board, and and I'm trying to accommodate their just, you know, their expectations. But also, you know, I'm always telling you that, look, guys, you know, I will be there. I will play, you know, an event. I will play again this 9 60 event, in in Saint Louis this September. But, you know, don't have high expectations. And I can play some good games. You know if I play one good game you know that's already that's that's that's enough because you know I people could see wow that's the that's that's old spark you know that's the the the lion still has you know few teeth left you know just to to go off his prey Obviously, world champion level players like yourself, like Carlson, like Podvinnik, your old teacher, and so on, they sort of have their unique styles. You could tell a Kasparov game. You could tell a Petrosian game. You might even be able to tell a Carlson game. You were known for your, as you called it, your fighting chess. Very aggressive, very tactical, very attacking. That's at least what you were known for. Carlson, on the other hand, is known for squeezing the life out of a position and then slowly grinding out a win with very subtleties and nuances. It's a completely opposite style to you, it seems, on the surface. What why do you think that change has occurred? Has that change occurred in the world of chess because of computers? It's harder to be tact it's harder to know how to be aggressive, or or what what or is it just a difference in personality between you and Carlson and other players? I don't think that's, you know, that's that's a trend because when you look at the at the history of chess in the last 50 years, or even just, you know, 100 years, so you always see that, you know, that's the, the world champions and the top players, they had different styles. And, very often you had, you know, the player with one specific style, you know, beating another player, with an opposite style and then being beaten by the player with a similar style of his opponent that he beat before. So for instance, you know, if you look at okay. Let's start with with my experience. So I played Karpov, very different style. So that's this is this is ice and fire. So when I beat Karpov, then I just, you know, as I lost to Kramnik, and Kramnik style is more like Karpov style. So then, you know, we just you had, you know, Kramnik losing to Anand. And Anand's style is closer to my style. And then you had, you know, Magnus beating Anand. If you I'm talking only about world championship matches. Yes. And then you mentioned, that's more of the my style or Vishay Anand. So it's the it's the get his his his yet to become the world champion, but you see that this is the the the the bright star of new generation is more like, you know, Kasparov and on style than good Kramnick or or Magnus. But again, when you talk about style, you know, you should, you should be very careful of not misleading, you know, your audience because it's the it's in chess. I think there's a style is, of course, very important, influential. It's, you know, it's like in tennis. You have players with a very powerful serve who who are rushing to the net or those who play from the back line. In in in soccer, you also had, you know, very aggressive attacking style, like Brazilian style or Italian, catenaccio, more defensive style. But on the top, you know, level, so you have to do many things, you know, well. So this is you still have your preferences. You still have your, you know, strongest suit, but, you know, it's this is it's the you have to be able to do the other things. Magnus Carlsen, you're right. You know? He he knows how to squeeze life out of the position and just to use minimal resources to to to to torment his opponents and actually, you know, and then to score. But he can have a massive attack. Yeah. Just, you know, in Kasparov style. I can show you a few games of Magnus and say, oh, that's more played by by, Anando Kasparov. No. He played by Magnus. So that's why, again, this is don't, you know, get confused that it's it's it's I say, oh, Magnus can do only this. That's his ultimate strengths, but he can do many other things as well. And, and, the the the winner, it's it's in in when you have 2 different, you know, school of thoughts, 2 styles, you know, clashing. The winner is is the is is is the player who can actually, who can do 2 things. 1 is, you know, to, to, invade upon his territory and just to make sure that, you know, he can he can manage to survive there. So that's as on on but also to make sure that most of the, most of the battles are taking place on his territory. So that's that's the reason why I lost to Krammek in the year 2000 because I I I have been trying to actually win the battle on the territory that that where he felt most comfortable. So that was that was a big mistake, and, you know, even even player of my caliber and, with my experience could make this mistake. So, the reason I beat Karpov is that, you know, I, I managed to actually fight well against Karpel in his territory, and he in in in definitely in the last match, he tried to actually fight with me on on territory that that definitely fit my style better. So that's the, play very sharp lines with with with with black pieces, for instance, in Rue Lopez. And, that's, you know, it's no matter how good how good his position was after the opening, he still had to fight the territory that was more of, Caspar than his. What what would you say, like, for you at your peak, Carlson at his peak, Babinec at his peak, what's the difference between the number one player and, let's say, the number 10 player in the world or the number 20 player? Because in tennis, for instance, I've I've heard it said that there's really no physical difference between the number 1 tennis player in the world and the number 100 tennis player in the world, but the difference is psychology and who has the determination to be number 1 in the world. Like, what what would you say is the difference between number 1 in chess and number 20 in chess? Number 1 is number 1. Number 1 is is is it yeah. I want to say world champion, but, you know, we mentioned between and, there was no rating system in between time, but, I doubt very much that he was, he was number 1. You know, that is he was very good in the matches, but at one point, Smislov was, probably, you know, number 1. And, and then again, but Phoenix but Phoenix played rarely, and I think it's his, while he was a number one in I'm not sure late thirties, but definitely late forties or the fifties, he could remain the world champion because he knew how to how to play the matches. He was a great match player, especially rematches, you know, how to prepare. This is the Mhmm. A genius of preparation. The gap between the the best player and the rest of the field, you know, it's it's this is one of the, you know, one of the sign of the greatness. And, Fischer's gap, you know, was phenomenal in 1970172, but it didn't last because Fischer left chest. So we didn't know for how long he could actually keep up with these new challenges. I stayed on top for quite a while. So, and I managed always to keep the gap between me and and the rest of the field. Though, of course, it has been shrinking, with with new generation coming in and, and, you know, my age, you know, add me adding years, to my age. Magnus, at one point had, I mean, just clear gap between Magnus and, the rest. So I would say that since he won the title, it's 2014, 2015. So that's the I and and to these days, I mean, he's he's still the the top player. And, though I think, you know, he's, Edward mentioned, he's, he's not as inevitable as he used to be. You know? But let's say at his peak, what separates him from the rest of the field? What is it that what is that extra oomph that separates a world champion? Number 1. That's that's that's a secret. I don't know. I mean, that's that's the it's the, you may say the difference is just tiny. Yes. Just but that tiny difference makes all the difference because, you know, he he he it's not just psychology. He knows, you know, things just a little bit better here and there, and it's but in in overall, you know, it's it, it creates an an image. It creates a a a unit, a fighting unit that, is unstoppable. And, when I was number 1 player, so I, I had and my I would say mine was energy. I just had more energy than anybody else. I could play chess. I could, concentrate on the game. I could spend time on preparation. So I, you know, I was all, you know, all fire, you know, that's at the board. And also, huge, energy and discipline combination, which is, as you know, that's important, you know, just to bring together, at, at at my at my training sessions. So Magnus is, Magnus has, I would say, probably very pure chess talent. That's why it reminds me Karpov, Kawaplanka. So is the he's not so much intuitive player as myself, but he's just, you know, he's, he's in yes. Everything comes together. So that's as he he sees, you know, how how the how the board is, is is, all the configurations. So that's this finds probably the ideal trajectory for his pieces. And, also, I think the Magnus I would add one more thing about Magnus domination. He was the only player of the top, you know, of of top ten, I know, that who could, play who could prepare with computers without being hijacked by the screen. So that's as he could look at the screen and he could still, you know, you you know, sort of separate himself from from machine's recommendations. So he could always, you know, preserve his immunity from from from machine's influence, and that helped him to to achieve the best combination of his chess chess human creative input and machines, a machine's brute force. And so you you've coached a lot of top players, like, you know, what would be the sort of things you would coach a a young Magnus? I did. I I did coach young Magnus. Yes. I know. So so what what sorts of things would you teach him at that level? And I know this is a little further afield than just the lessons you have on Kasparov, chess obviously, but I'm trying to get a sense of of learning in general. Like, what what sort of things would would you add to, Carlson at when you coached him? You're talking about, you know, just it's the it's a a top player in the world. So Magnus in 2009 when we started our work, so he was, already top 5. And at one point, he was even brief numb number 1 rating, but he was, you know, top 5 player. And, and, I, what I did, you know, I just I looked at his games. I studied them, and, I, I believe that I could be of great help because our styles were different. So that's why what I thought was important is actually to to help him to see every position through my lenses, to add, you know, to his qualities. He he knew how to play different, you know, certain positions, and he didn't need my advice to to to, exercise his natural talent. But, you know, on the intuitive side, a more aggressive chess, you know, dynamic chess, you know, I was I was superior. So that's why, you know, he learned from me so how to how to manage this position. So he made me more universal as a player. And, also, I think I helped him to build, his own, opening preparation framework because his, opening preparation at the time was not, was not up to the up to the level. Let's say now you're no. On Kasparov's chest, you're gonna have, you know, many lessons geared towards kids, many lessons geared towards adults, lessons about openings, tactics, strategy, and so on. What do you think are let's let's say someone's just beginning to come to chess now and they're 30 years old, but they wanna learn, they wanna be pretty good. A, what what should they focus on? And, b, how far do you think they can get? Speak about lessons, you know, that's and puzzles. So that's the we did mention that, but as the so we we you know, our side is is is a freemium, business model. So that's why, you know, this is the, you have, you know, many things free. So that's like playing zone, and this is news articles and podcasts, and 8 puzzles a day. So and, and then 20% of the list of content. So it's it's it's all free. So that's the. And then, of course, you know, you can have the access for the full site, and that's one of our advantages. I just have to mention that is this. We will be offering, I think, very competitive prices. So $14 a month or $120, annually. So that will give you access to master class in every every every, corner of the of of, of our site. And, again, this is the, we strongly believe that, lessons and, again, it's the the entertain entertaining element of the lessons. That's what, will, bring people in. And, and, as I already said, you know, we want to make sure that, you know, you will you will not be lost in these jungles because there's so many lessons and so many puzzles, and we will always help you to navigate and make sure that you stay, you know, you know, in on the in the territory where, you know, you feel comfortable and safe. Yeah. So so what should somebody again, like, what should an adult or a young adult or a kid, what should they focus on first, you think, to get better? Look, you know, again, it's a state state. Depends, you know, what's what's what's, what is your target? So if you are a kid, you want to get, you know, just, you know, into chess, and, that's that's one story. If you're an adult looking for intellectual entertainment, that's another story. So and, again, we want to make sure that, you know, whatever what whatever your goals are, so we're here to help. So, again, this is it's not, you know, that's it's it's it's you have, you know, there's the a, b, c, d, up to z, you know, plan. So naturally, you have to learn, you know, learn, you know, the moves that you have to know how to play, but I assume you already know something about the game of chess. So, and then again, just tell tell us tell us what's your plan. And the master class that I will be recording, so we'll we'll be very much, you know, based on on on these kind of ex you know, expectations. So, I learned from the first first master class, the original one recorded 4 years ago, and I will make sure that, this high quality production. Again, it will be all, the shooting will be done in Paris, so in professional studios. So, that will, you know, will, please not only your eyes, but also your appetite for, for learning learning, the game of chess. For adults, do you think they should focus on openings? Do you think well, like, if you were to advise someone who let's say they're they're 30 years old and they saw the Queen's Gambit and they're like, I wanna be a chess master or a chess expert or whatever. What would you advise that adult to to do? It's a little bit too late for a chess career, but it's just the yeah. But it's, again, it's the it's a combination of things. So that's the master closet that will do, so that's the, will be advanced and and and a club level that will be great help. I would still concentrate on on general things, on just tactics and strategy, and then you just, you know, we we have lessons on the openings. So that's that's but openings, I would not start with the openings because it's very important that you you, improve your understanding of the game. So because all the openings, you know, that's at that level, they just, you know, you can survive them. You can play some very lame openings. But at the end of the day, it's just, you know, it's your ability to navigate in the middle game, your your knowledge of the end game. So that's that's that's what helps you to win. If you if you want to improve and you you want not just to enjoy chess, but you want to enjoy and win. So then, you know, I would say that looking at the middle games and end games would be would be a priority, and, and we will definitely make sure that, you know, we will we will have the most, friendly friendly map for you to navigate. And I should mention you also have a a podcast, Kasparov chess. I just listened to the most recent episode, where you described a tournament when you were very young in 1976, and your mentor and teacher, Bob Binnick, kinda had to make a call to you to, keep you keep you going a little bit. Do do you wanna describe real quickly that that story? I thought it was a beautiful story. Look. As I yeah. It's, originally, it was not in our intention, but since, you know, we had to slow down and, we could do the videos. So we decided I would I would do, podcast, you know, with these episodes. So I'm planning to record, many more of them. So, the the the first series will end with, my entry into the adult professional world in 1978. And, and, I thought it would be very, you know, very, touching to tell stories. Again, it's this is it's the the resemblance with the Queen's Gambit. The story is about relations. It's me, my mother, my teacher. So he he's calling me. Those are the stories that that made people, you know, excited because they learn something, you know, that's that's it's, you know, it's it's personal experience. And and it's it adds, you know, human element to the game of chess. And, yeah, but Felix advice was always most valuable, and, and he knew how to encourage me, how to make sure that, you know, I'm, I'm not, you know, demoralized if I just, you know, if I, was not doing well. And, now you'll learn more about our relations with him because it was quite rocky. So and that's that's it's it's eventually, it heated to the point when I was a world champion that our political differences made it made it impossible to cooperate. But but it's it was my great teacher, and, and I always feel grateful for what he did for me in the seventies, and in in the even eighties. You know? His advice, his, you know, wisdom, and and, his calm always, you know, helped me to stay the course. And, you know, a lot of people compare chess. There's many metaphors to chess in business, chess in life, chess in and other aspects of life. You, of course, are involved in everything from politics to, cybersecurity. How do you see do you see chess helping you in these other in these other areas of life? No. No. It's not about chess. It's about me. So that's the, what chess did is help me to to understand, so the decision making process. And that's that's the, you can find more in my, first non chess book, how life immediate chess when I talked about, you know, my chess career and about decisions that I made and some right or wrong and what I learned from making these decisions and how this experience could could could, be useful, not only just for me, but for for the readers. The aptitude for playing chess is nothing else than the aptitude for playing chess. Now the the real issue is what can you do with your chess experience? How can you benefit from your chess experience, your ability to understand the nature of your decisions, and, why something, you know, went wrong and so how to improve it into other areas of your life. But the fact is that I'm involved in in many things, you know, ranging, from human rights to cybersecurity. It's just, you know, it's it's it's it's my nature. I just, you know, I, I was always a curious person, and I also wanted to make the difference. That's what I learned from my mother. And I believe that, you know, in in in every endeavor, you know, just it's where I just, you know, I I I I I, invest my time and efforts and energy. I'm I'm making a difference. Not as great as in the game of chess, of course. You know, I understand understand that, you know, my impact outside of chess is limited compared to what I did as a chess world champion, but still, I'm making difference. So whether it's, you know, human rights fight, global global issues where I just I believe my voice helps many people to regain their confidence and continue their fight against dictatorships and and, and other thugs, you know, who are abusing human rights, and, to to, human machine collaboration where also my experience, fighting the machines and then working with machines helps people to become more optimistic about the future. So so, when do you see, you know, Casper of chess is in beta now. I am I've been happily using its resources as a beta user. What do you see as the official launch date? Oh, we are, you know, we are launching now. That's the that's the it's the basically, this this is as, you know, with speaking speaking now, Justin, it's it's, it's a it's a week of, of, May May 10. And, that's that's that's that's a lot that's that's a week of our official launch. We, we we're going to to to announce so that the full, scope of cooperation between, Vivendi, and and the Grand Chess Tour because that's that's becomes a part of the Gaspar of Chez. So this is the speaking about broadcast, we will have the full access to the Grand Chess Tour events and and then Saint Louis Jazz Club, Grand Chess Grand Chess Tour, actually. This is this. It's it's, will, will be a part of this venture. So that's that was the the original idea, and, it's all going to be announced now. And so we will have our own very strong broadcast, section, because as we know, grand tour had set up new standards of presenting the game of chess, and we have great commentators, and it's all part of part of the venture. So you will see now that it's it's not just entertainment on the, learning side, but it's also will be more entertainment on broadcast. Will you get involved with, like, streaming and chess streamers? You know, like, someone like Hikaru is a very successful chess streamer, and there's other and Alireza actually is a a good streamer. You know, they stream on platforms like Twitch. We look. It's the it's definitely we are going to use to be very active on all these platforms. So, yeah, I will I will be I will be doing it as a big event with Hikaru on May 14th. So, it's on Twitch. So and, and, it will you know, it's the again, it's if we want if we want to be successful, so if we want you to, to live up to the expectations of our audience, so we must have a strong presence on on the stream platform. Yeah. It's so interesting. And just as a last comment, you know, I think of the chess players in the fifties sixties, and they would be so austere and wear suits for every tournament. And now I watch these streamers who are 27 100 level, maybe, you know, just as good as these prior champions, and they're throwing chairs when they make blunders and cursing. It's a it's like a different world. And but that's why I appreciate how Casper of chess is gonna look at how culturally chess is appearing in society now. Yeah. Look. It is a different world. It's not just, you know, chess different world. It's a different world, period. And, and that's why you have, different habits. You have different norms. You have different standards. But as you pointed out, it's very important for us to keep the image of the chess intact. It's a great game, and it deserves full respect. And I I grew up in a different world, so I always played unless it was too hot. I always played in in just having, you know, the suit and a tie. That's what I learned, you know, from the older generation because I was at stage, and I was always, you know, fighting to my colleagues who's, ah, big deal. No. It's your stage, you know, you have to serve the audience. I always knew about this interactive element. Obviously, when I played Karpov, you know, that was, you know, this this is always limited by by by the big big, audiences in the halls who play in the theaters, because this is the others, you know, could fall on radio. This is those there were the the technical means to transmit the games were limited. But even today, you know, just it's this is it's the I think it's presenting the, you know, the the the quality of of, visual quality of the game. It's it's very important. And, while, you know, you can hardly imagine people playing, you know, from from their home, you know, online events on and and wearing color, color and tie. But, you know, just, you know, certain norms and and it's probably this it's it's slightly changed now. It's not about color and tie, but it's more about quality of the presentation. So we want to make sure that the the game of chess, it'll have cla*s. Mentioning the queen's gambit. Also, one of the elements that made it so successful, it was classy. You look at the clothes. You look at the at the environment. So classy. It's no longer the game played in dark corner of the cafe. So this is the game that played in theaters. You know? You have people following it. So it's just it's all the traditional intrigue, but also it has a cla*s. So we wanna make sure that Kasparov's chess will, you know, live up to the expectations of people who want to learn chess, want to be entertained, but he wants to do it in cla*s. Well, I have to say, so far, you're doing it. Like, I've been using Kasparov chess. I've I've taken video lessons, watched documentaries, solved puzzles, played some games. Everything is top notch, and I wish you huge luck and success with Casper on the chess. I'm sure it will be. And, again, I was surprised how much I learned from just 1 or 2 videos also on on the platform. And there are many of them. That's that's that's huge. Yes. They they will be eventually, you know, the the the thousands of them. Now we are getting closer to the to the 4,000. Excellent. Well, I look forward to continue using it, and I I hope many people use it. Good luck again, and and congratulations on launching it this week. Thank you, Gary, for coming on the podcast. Thank you.
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