Transcript
This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is the James Altiger Show on the Choose Yourself Network. Today on the James Altiger Show. By the time this podcast is out, this book will be out. What if this book just doesn't do well, and you get, like, the worst reviews, and, you know, you've worked so hard on it. You know, the more you work on something, the more Here's the thing. It's funny. I've come to peace with it because I've thought about this. Listen, I would love to hit number 1 New York time bestseller, but I'm also, like, if I didn't get on the list at all, how would I feel? My ego would be hurt, and I'd be sad, and I'd be frustrated. But I believe, like, I've become so at peace with it already either way, whatever happens, it's more important to me to get the message out than to get the result. I haven't put my whole life into one book, where if like as an athlete, my whole life was around being a college player, making pros, and And if I didn't make it, then my life was over. This isn't my whole life one project. And I think if it doesn't hit the list or it doesn't do this, like, what's the lesson? I think what's the lesson is a very important mantra. So first off, I'll just introduce you. Lewis Howes, I think this is, like, your 3rd time on my podcast. I think it might be. 2nd or 3rd. You've been on mine 3 times or 4 times? Something like that. So we've been on in each other's podcasts. The first time, I think, you came on just for the hell of it. 2nd time was for your massive New York Times bestseller, The School of Greatness. Yep. But I feel you're you're coming into your own now with this second book. I really love this book for a lot of reasons. It's called The Mask of Masculinity. You're in it. I'm in it. Thank you for mentioning that. I wasn't gonna actually mention that because I didn't wanna seem like I'm bragging. I'm in awe. I mean, Lewis Howes' book on masculinity is gonna certainly up the way people think of me. Exactly. Before we get into the book, I am, like, the least, I, like, I feel like I don't speak guy, meaning and you you address this in the book a little bit, but I'll just tell you my direct experience. I go into a bar. I even now own a bar. Mhmm. And everyone's just there's TVs on with sports. I don't speak sports, and then they talk about fishing. I don't know anything about fishing. Right. I don't know anything about cars or bikes or They talk about girls. They talk about girls. They talk about girls in a way that I don't, and we can keep we can get into that later on because that's one of your masks. Mhmm. And I just feel, very disconnected from the concept of being, like, a regular guy. Although, of course, you know, in every other way, I'm a regular guy. But, I don't know. We could talk about that in in in the in the concept. But, basically, I'll just kinda outline what what this book is about because it's really brilliant, and then and then I wanna talk about all the different masks of masculinity. Cool. But you the basic idea is that men and women have men and women are different. Women have their own issues. You're dealing with specifically men here. Yes. And but it's good it's useful for both men and women to read this, men, to understand, to some extent, about these masks that we all put on to to give this appearance of more masculinity. Yes. And and because we have this view that this is in our culture, this is what a man should be. This is how a man meets women if they're a certain way, or this is how a man creates wealth or bonds with people. This is how they're defined as masculine. This is how they're defined as as men. You know, these false senses of of masculinity, these masks. And and and it it's good for women to read it as well because you wanna know you wanna be able to identify, okay, what masks do I have to go through if I really wanna communicate Yeah. With the man I love or or the man I love? My father, my son, my brother. Yeah. What's what's in the way of them connecting with me or opening up or being available? And and we'll go over the masks one at a time or at least most of them. I don't wanna give away the whole book. But, there's 2 things. One's positive. One's maybe a a mild criticism, but I'm I'm, curious about your answer. Why do you think it's important that men from the beginning wear a mask? What are men trying to do? What's the goal? Fit in and protect themselves. Fit in with other men? Fit in with society. Fit in and be accepted. For example, when your, you know, when your mom says, you know, when you go to school today and you're in 2nd grade or 4th grade or whatever, and say, really ain't behind other kids. Be open. Be loving. Be helpful. Be generous. You know, be a good sauna and do that. Really open up. And then the kid's like, okay. I'll go try that. And he sees a couple of bullies picking on a kid. He says, hey. Don't talk to that guy like that. Don't talk to him or her like that. That's not nice. And then the bullies turn to you and shove you in a locker. You're gonna say, maybe it doesn't feel good to be open or to be kind or be generous or compassionate. Instead, I wanna be accepted. I don't wanna feel this pain. So maybe I'll start to hang out with them and bully other kids as well. Just one example. You know, we we do things to fit in. So another example might be And by the way, in that example, you specifically address you talk about your own personal experience where various things happened to you as a child, and to take out your own pain Mhmm. Sometimes you could sometimes you can't take it out on the adults or or or cast kids who damaged you, so you find yourself as a bully, and so you take it on other kids. You you you admit your own periods where you are a bully. Absolutely. Yeah. And and really hurt somebody. You take it on other people, and you could also take it on yourself. You know, you could be constantly causing pain inside. How do you think you took it out on yourself? And we can get you very constantly not feeling worthy or good enough, so it was just like beating myself up if I didn't succeed or win or achieve something or if I stumbled my words, then constantly beating myself up afterwards. But but but, like, just to put it in perspective, I think nobody ever achieves, like you know, we're all trying to achieve more, but there's no real kind of pinnacle where, okay, now I did it. If you you if you say, like, your own feelings of, you know, not achieving or something, you you're, you know, an all star athlete in lots of ways, an Olympian athlete. May maybe just go over your athletic credentials for a second. Yeah. I mean, I was all state in high school, all American, couple sports in college, you know, in professional sports. Not just like Played professional football, arena football for a little bit, and I play with the USA handball team now. But I'll give you an example of potentially why I've gone down that path. When I was in 4th grade, the the class we were in, as opposed to going out to recess one day and kind of all doing our own thing, the teacher said, okay, cla*s. We're gonna go out together and do a class dodgeball game. So we're gonna split the team the class up in 2 teams and compete. And the the the, teacher picked 2 boys, kinda like the popular kids in the class, to be the captains. So they're picking 1 kid at a time. Now I'm thinking to myself, I'm one of the tallest kids. I'm pretty athletic. I'm probably gonna be picked 1 of the first first boys. They go through and pick 1 by 1 all the boys, and it comes down to me and one other kid. One other boy that was probably, like, the nerdy looking kid. Right? And I was like, there's no way. That was me. Right. It was like me and you. Right? And I was like, there's no way that I'm not gonna get picked before this kid. Like, he couldn't even walk type of thing. It was like that. He was that unathletic, and they end up picking that boy. And so now I'm the last boy standing. And so I'm thinking to myself, man, this really sucks, like, to be picked as the last boy, but something happened after that. I wasn't picked. They picked a girl next, and then they picked another girl. And they picked all the girls in the class until I was the last kid standing. And I didn't even get picked on a team. I was just, by default, the last person's team, so I just walked over there. Okay. So that's the experience that I'm very familiar with from being a kid, but I don't something so I don't quite believe it. Like, why were you if the athletic kids actually were always picked first, it was just Mhmm. Why weren't you picked? So this is yeah. I guess I was, you know, I didn't fit in. I wasn't accepted. I was in, like, discussion news classes. I think it was more like popularity contest. I mean, I'll tell you what, I dominated in that game. I took, like, all this anger out and just, like, slammed the balls in kids' faces and just, like, dominated. And I told myself in that moment, I'm never to get picked last again. I'm gonna train myself to be the best athlete I can be, to always be picked first, to always be valuable, to always be seen and wanted and desired. And so I put on that mask, the athlete mask, and it worked. I trained my butt off every single day, all through college, all through pros, to be great as an athlete because I wanted to be accepted. I wanted to fit in. And so when you've had your experience, because we've spoken about this before, when you added your experience much later where you had a a football injury or or Uh-huh. An injury that prevented you from taking the next step athletically Yep. Did you question your manner? Because now you had just spent 10 years. I I had to question everything about my life. My whole identity was now shaken because I wore this mask of this athlete mask, and now that I could no longer be that, that's where I had my self worth wrapped around. Define, in this case, mask because in some sense, it's not bad to be an athlete. Like, you get in shape. You you achieve goals. You you Here's the thing. Feels good. With any mask, it gets results. So for me, it got me the results I wanted. I achieved at the highest levels athletically. You know, I played college football. I played professional football. So it worked, but I wore the mask in every other part of my life. I had to win at all costs in my relationships, in my business, in my family experiences. I had to always win and win right. What does that mean winning in a relationship? So win an argument. Win, like, and be right. Like, I had to be right. I had to know the answers. It means it means someone else had to be wrong or they had to lose. So I had to win in everything, whether it was a little competition, a little game, or walking somewhere. I just had to be in front of someone. Like, whatever it may be, you know, driving, I had to drive faster than everyone else. I had to win and be right. I had to be in 1st place all the time so that I felt like I was worthy enough to fit in in society in general and so that people would accept me. And it worked. I won a lot, and I achieved great results. And I got to what I wanted to be athletically and my goals. But I always felt so unfulfilled inside when I would win because I was a poor winner, and I was a really bad loser. So when I would lose in games or anything, it was like an attack on my manhood, on my identity. And I was like, well, if I'm not winning, then I'm not gonna be accepted. I'm not gonna fit in. And if I'm not right, then people think I'm stupid, and they'll think I'm not masculine or man enough. And so for me, it was this inner unfulfillment. Like, I would win. I would achieve my big athletic goals, and I'd be angry 10 minutes later. And I'm like, why am I so angry? Why am I not fulfilled? Why am I not satisfied? Or at least even able to celebrate for a day the achievement that I just did, all American, all state. Yeah. Why do you think you're able to celebrate for a day? I think because I was so focused on proving people wrong as opposed to lifting other people up and and doing it from a place of love and joy and inspiration. I was just like, I'm doing this to show these kids wrong or to prove to my peers wrong or family or whoever doubted me. And that's the most powerful fuel that I've found, proving people wrong, kind of having that chip in your shoulder. But it never felt let me feel satisfied inside. So I always needed more. I needed to achieve more and more and more, and I was so lonely and just unstable from that place of creating results from proving people wrong. So with a lot of these masks, and I'll I'll read through some of them. There's the athlete mask that you just mentioned. There's the stoic mask, which I think, just, the way I picture it is, the guy who could break his leg, but nobody knows. He's being very stoic about it. Or or maybe something bad happens to him, like a death in the family, and he's the one who Has it all together. He's yeah. Right. And but it's still a mask. He's still feeling the pain, but he he holds it all in. There's, the material mask, which is very common. Here's a great example about the material mask. And, again, how these are super effective to wear them and actually how they hurt us at the same time. So material mask. You know, I was when I was done playing football, I was on my sister's couch for a year and a half, and I had no money. I never learned how to make money. I was a truck driver. I was like a bouncer, but I wasn't an entrepreneur that knew how to earn money on my own. I decided I was like, okay. I'm sick and tired of being broke. I'm gonna figure this out. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get rich and to make millions. I started hanging out with millionaires, learning from them, studying, and it's it worked. You know, a couple years later, I started making 1,000,000. Right? And I worked my a*s off for this. I was so driven to make money. I was so driven to make money to prove to people that I was smart, worthy, that I was desirable, and it worked. But at the same time, I gained £50, and people started calling me fluis for fat Lewis. I Did I know you then? Did You might. Maybe. Maybe right before this. It was, like, back in 2010, 2011. That, you know, I was super overweight. I was working till 3 AM every night because I was, like, so scared to lose money. And I was like, I gotta keep going. I gotta keep going because I didn't want it to go down. And I didn't really have good relationships with people. I was just, like, so fixated on the material things, on increasing my bank account, my net worth because that was my self worth. And it worked. You know, I got results, but I also suffered emotionally. I suffer with my health. I suffer with relationships. So I think it's just being aware of, like, okay. These masks aren't necessarily bad, but we get to be aware of, are we living with them 247? And are we putting them on to deflect other things that are meaningful in our in our lives? Relationships, our health, our well-being, and our self worth. And if we're tying our self worth around the amount of women we sleep with, how much money we have, how great of an athlete we are, all these things, how much we know, how funny we are in the Joker mask, if we're tying our self worth around this identity, then if the identity somehow falters or someone attacks that identity, then we feel like it's an attack on us personally. So so it's it strikes me that there's an evolutionary basis for this, in that we all are primates, and Mhmm. And primates are formed in tribes. And every tribe of monkeys or chimpanzees, for instance, has an alpha male all the way down to an omega male, and they're carefully ranked. Like, everybody knows where they are, who's above them, and who's below them. And so there's there's everything that you're talking about here, like, let's say, the material Mhmm. Mask, well, you know exactly where you are. You have dollars in the bank. Or the athlete mask, you know exactly, am I, you know, the 2nd best player on the team or the 1st best player on the team or the 1st best player in the league? The the the sexual mask you talk about, how many women have you slept with? You know, there's metrics that you're suggesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With with the Joker mask, it could be very painful if you tell a joke and nobody laughs if that's the metric you're judging yourself with. When you put your self worth around those results. Right. And how do you it seems like that's such a natural thing, and we are just like this bag of chemicals, and and these chemicals have been with us for 2 and a half 1000000 years. What you're sort of suggesting in this book is that it's healthier to somehow break free from those chemicals, and that's very difficult to do. It's almost impossible. It seems impossible if you're not even aware of it. For 25 years, I wasn't even aware. I just said, well, this is who I am, and I'm not changing. Like, why change? It's working. I'm getting results. I was a great athlete. I'm making money. I'm getting girls. Like, it works for me. So why change? But when I'm in the fetal position watching Weeds for 88 episodes for 2 weeks because I can't emotionally break free from a relationship I'm in that's so toxic, and I don't know how to get out of it, and I don't know how to communicate and express myself in a healthy ways, then something's missing. When I'm so angry and resentful that I am constantly looking for a fight to get my emotions out, and I end up beating the crap out of someone on a basketball court in a no stakes basketball game just because he stepped to me, it's not worth it. You know? It's it's showing me that, okay, something's missing. If I have to resort with, anger and aggression and this nasty energy as opposed to just you know, when I think of the ultimate alpha, gorilla, the silverback, I think of the one that doesn't have to beat his chest and scream whenever there's chaos happening. I think of the alpha, the ultimate alpha as the silverback that is so graceful and calm in his energy. And when he walks through the jungle, if there's chaos happening, he just moves his hands to the side and people just stop. He doesn't have to scream. He doesn't have to beat his chest. He's just so confident with who he is, his strengths, his weaknesses, and he's able to communicate in a different way as opposed to through anger and aggression and puffing up his chest. And I think that's what we get to look at within ourselves is what are the things we do that are kind of on autopilot when we react to certain situations as opposed to how can we use our What do you what do you mean by that? You know, like when we're driving in a car or and someone cuts us off and we automatically flip them off. You know, I used to wanna, like, get out of the car and actually wanna fight someone when they when I felt like they were cutting me off because I felt like it was an attack against me personally. When who knows what that person's going through or why this happened or what they missed or they didn't see me or whatever it is. But why did I have to react every single time? I wanna speed up and, like, swear at the guy or yell at the window. Like, why? Who cares? And how is that supporting me with my vision? When I put energy on something reactive that's happening in the world that I can't control and I fixate on it. And maybe for days or weeks, I hold onto it and I talk about it, how someone cut me off or someone said this to me online or someone did whatever to me. I used to hold onto things so much, and it would take my focus away from making an impact or building my business or helping other people. So so there's a couple of things here just to just to unpack that a little bit. Mhmm. One is, like you say, it might almost be imposs like, we're always gonna if we give up the athlete mask or the material mask, we're still gonna find the next metric by which to Uh-huh. Judge ourselves. To hide ourselves. Yeah. I I I find that when I pull myself away from some way to judge myself, I almost instantly, without realizing it, find another way to judge myself. For you, it was, like, material, then it was the know it all, then it was now the joker because you're, like, going into comedy every day or so. So it's like you're finding different metrics or whatever. I don't think it's bad to to step into these different masks. I don't think it's wrong. What I want men to be aware of is, is it fully working for you, or are you suffering inside by wearing this mask? Is it helping you get results and bring inner peace and fulfillment in your life? Well, I think there's always suffering in that I mean, let's say you fall into the the material mask. Yes. There's like, if you then lose money or lose a job or whatever, you're gonna feel it visceral. You're gonna feel like you're pushed to the edge of the tribe now, and the lions will eat you first if they chase the tribe. Yep. So And you're gonna feel that cortisol spike up unless you somehow That's why we that's why we shouldn't define ourselves by these masks. And and but I think that's the hard part. It's so baked in that that we don't even realize it. Very true. Like, again, when you take yourself out of one mask, you might accidentally just yourself into another one. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so it seems like the first step is awareness that these masks exist. All awareness. And then and then the second step is also realizing, I think, that there's benefits to not wearing a mask. Like you say, it could help in your communication with relationships. It might even help with your business because it'll help you deal with, like, losses faster. It might help with Yes. Your athletics and to say instead of saying, okay. I wanna beat up the people who just defeated my team, I wanna now learn from them instead. That's it. Like, for example, when the athlete mask, I was always a sore loser, and it was like an attack against my identity. It was like I wasn't a good person unless I won, and I felt like I wasn't worthy in the world if I wasn't winning. So I was angry, resentful, mad. Like, I was like, don't talk to me after the game, you know, for days. It was like a whole thing my family had to deal with. As opposed to, why don't I still be the most competitive person I can be? Like, win at everything. Still be so driven to be a great athlete. But do it from a place of I want to show myself what I'm capable of, or I wanna inspire other people through my performances. And also, like you said, it's like, how can I learn from it? As opposed to be a sore loser, how can we be a great learner? Yeah. Like, what's an example of an athlete that you consider as like, an like, the top of the chain Conor McGregor. Conor McGregor. Right? The UFC fighter. I don't know I don't know who he is. Right. Right. Conor McGregor who's, like, the UFC fighter. He's the guy who just fought Mayweather in the big you know, they both got, like, a couple $100,000,000 in this huge fight, whatever, a month or 2 ago. He talks so much trash. He's, like, known for being, the biggest trash talker out of anyone. And he's kind of like the Muhammad Ali of our time. Right? And here's what I love about him. He he leads with a big mask, like this alpha aggressive mask that he leads with before the fight for months. It's like a whole press thing where he's constantly, like, talking trash about them, constantly saying how weak they are, how he's gonna do whatever to them. But the one thing I really appreciate about him is during the the fight and afterwards, he is his authentic self. He removes the mask. He has humility. And at the end of the fight, it's like even if he's hated the person for months leading up to it, he always embraces him and hugs him and, like, acknowledges the component. Even if he was like, he's the weakest, sorriest person in the world, afterwards, he was like, I acknowledge this person. He hugs him. Even he won a loss. And he's a great loser. He's like, you know what? This is what champions do. Sometimes they lose, and I'm gonna go back and learn as opposed to being like this sore loser. And that's pretty cool to me. When you see a great athlete who's wants to learn from from losing as opposed to, it's the worst day in the world, Tim. It it's funny because when you take then it seems like when you take that next step, let's call it post mask step. Yeah. Like, you described the boy who watches the bullies make, you know, get the ball kicked into the locker, and then, ultimately, that boy becomes a bully because he puts on that mask to fit in. But if you think about it, the post mask version of that kid is the hero in every movie, ultimately. It's the it's the Karate Kid who wants the the little kid who ultimately defeats the bullies. Exactly. And I think that's something to realize too is that, ultimately, the hero of the story is picked on at first, and rather than just caving in and and going you know, Luke could have gone to the dark side, but ultimately Mhmm. Had to defeat the dark side to become the hero. You know, I think it's a great example of the material mask right now is our mutual friend, Tim Sykes. Well, I'm pretty sure you're you know Tim. Right? Yeah. Not that I know him, not only do I know him. I I hired him when he, was just beginning. There you go. There you go. Yeah. For The Street. Right? Isn't that right? 2,006. Exactly. You know, here's a great example. I was just with Tim last week, and he admitted to this. You know, for years, he was driven to make as much money as possible, and he lived with the material mask. It was all about the cars and the houses, and and still today, he shows off all the money he's making. Right. He does lifestyle marketing. That's what he's doing. But something has shifted in the last year and a half, two years where he realized, like, you know, having a 5th Lamborghini does not make me happier. You know? Having all this extra stuff does not make me happier. And so he started finding causes that he loved to give his money back to. And he's donated, I think, like a couple $1,000,000 a year in the last 2 years or whatever. You you and you and Tim both actually did really. We both do. We've been on trips together and done and given back to build schools. And he now has, like, a deeper sense of meaning and purpose in his life, and he's so much calmer and relaxed. He's not stressed about needing to make more and earn more. And when he loses money, which he does, he writes about the lesson he learned from it, and he shares that. Yeah. And he's like, you know what? I'm not gonna win every day. I'm not gonna make money every day, but I have a purpose for the money that I'm making now. It's not just to fulfill my desires of more cars and houses. It's to live a great lifestyle and also build these schools and other things with these charities and teach. I wanna educate and give back my knowledge, not just keep all the knowledge for myself so I become the richest person alive. And I think that's a cool thing. When we I think a lot of guys in general wanna become the king of diamonds. They wanna make as much money and have material things, and they realize it's fleeting. And and when they start to lean into becoming the king of hearts, they make way more money and they have much more meaningful lives. That's an interesting metaphor. What what made you come up with that metaphor? Someone told me this a few years ago, and I was like, that's brilliant. He's like, so many people are trying to become the king of diamonds, but if you become the king of hearts, you'll be the be the richest man in the world. Because I guess this relates to my other comment that I was gonna make kind of overriding over the book is that men should still be men. Like, I think Absolutely. I think we live in a society where it got confused that, you know, I mean, men should still open I think men should still open the door for a woman. Absolutely. And, you know, so so but what you're saying is if you take out the mask of the book's titled The Mask of Masculinity. But if you take out the mask of, you're left with masculinity. And then it seems like that's the overriding point, which is that all these masks make us feel more masculine. Right. And maybe society even rewards these as masculinity. Absolutely. But the but the real masculinity comes when you remove these masks. I think it's just revealing who you are. And, for example, you know, I lived behind the material mask, the athlete mask, I think everybody lives behind all the masks to live with. Absolutely. I've lived behind them all at some point, but we usually have a couple dominant ones. And, again, I got great results. I was still, like, a fun loving guy. I was still, like, happy and joyful, but I had certain triggers that when I was triggered, I didn't know how to emotionally communicate or express myself. And so I put the mask on stronger, and it hurt me deeper inside and it hurt other people. So So I don't think that's the best way of being a man is by hurting yourself or hurting other people by wearing the mask. I still think you should be the, you know, masculine or manly or the the greatest sense of the man of the word that is for you, but continue to learn and grow and develop how can I take off the masks that aren't supporting my vision or maybe are hurting other people in the process? So I wanna go through some of these masks, and then I also wanna I I wanna ask you first, why'd you write this book? Because it's funny. I told a couple of people, oh, I'm interviewing I'm I'm reading this book. Because last week, I was reading this book, and I said, I'm I told a few people, I'm interviewing Lewis Howes, next week because he wrote this book, The Mask of Masculinity. And I'll tell you a 100% of the time, this is the response I got. Oh, Lewis Howes is pretty masculine. Right? It's a 100% of the time. I'm like, alright. Alright. Alright. Lewis Howes is pretty masculine. That's funny. But I'm in the book too. Yeah. You are. But why did you decide to make this book? For a couple of reasons. One, there's so much happening in the media. Just this year alone, when you see Charlottesville, when you see the Vegas shooting, when you see the domestic abuse and violence that happens in sports teams all the time. But this is not just this year. This is, like, all All the time. All the time. When you see the political stuff happening, Like, you point out men kill themselves at a 6 to 1 ratio overall. Exactly. When you see the sexual harassment and abuse that came out with, Weinstein Weinstein last couple weeks, all these things are stemming from angry men that don't know how to express themselves. They do these things because they're wearing a mask, and they don't know how to fully reveal themselves and just be vulnerable in certain times. And it works. It gets them results. They have power. They make money. They, whatever can kill people because they have guns, and that's how they express themselves. It gets them the results they're looking for. But at what price do they have to pay, and does everyone else have to pay around them? So, like, what's you know, what wrote this for for myself because 4 years ago, I talked about this on the last time, I opened up about all the stuff in my past that I've always been afraid of other people knowing. I was sexually abused when I was 5. My brother was in prison when I was 8. My parents were fighting my entire childhood, and I never knew how to emotionally express or communicate that. I never knew how to cope. I never knew how to go through life sharing these things. But okay. So let me ask you about that. How do you even become aware that you're not Yeah. Because because if something happens to you at the age of 5, you're gonna bury it under layers and not under many masks. I did. Like, how do you even become aware that, oh, this is something I haven't dealt with, other than with Band Aids? I think for me, it took 25 years when I went through a really bad toxic breakup in a relationship. I got in this fight in the basketball court, and I was just fighting more in general. I was just constantly aggressive, and, I went through kind of a bad break in a in my business partnership. And even though I had achieved all these things at the highest level and things looked good, inside, I was suffering. And I had just turned 30, and kind of all these things happened at once. And you're right. I think it takes, like, some type of catalyst. I think it takes a near death experience. I think it takes, like, an illness. I think it takes someone dying close to you, a a a divorce, a big breakup, losing a job. It takes something for you to be like, oh, let me look around my surroundings and see what's not working. Well, it's funny you say that because if you look at all these masks, all of these masks actually will kill you. Yeah. So for instance, the stoic mask again, I'll take the example of someone who has some pain, doesn't wanna go to the doctor because he's stoic, and then It's a heart attack when it's not too late. Yeah. He realized he has cancer or heart disease or whatever and dies. Or or the sexual mask, someone who's just racking up numbers of women That gets STD and Yeah. That could kill you. The invincible mask obviously could could kill you. The, could be jumping off planes every day because you think you're not gonna get injured, and then it doesn't open up and you're dead. I feel like only male skydivers die. Like, I've never heard of a female skydiver. I'm sure it's happened, but I've never heard of a female skydiver dying. Whereas, you see it in the news all the time, oh, Sky had a skydiving accident and is paralyzed now or whatever. Yeah. I mean, the Joker mask we talk about I'm not sure if you checked out this section, but Robin Williams book. What do you mean check out this section? Robin Williams is a great example. You know, one of the greatest comedians of all time, right, who who took his own life. And I can only imagine that, again, every probably interaction he had, people were expecting him to make them laugh, to, like, perform, to give a joke, to, like, constantly make them laugh. And I can only imagine, like, who he really was was probably the character in Good Will Hunting, which was the greatest performance he gave out of all of his performances, in my opinion. The moments when he was tender, when he was loving, when he was compassionate, considerate, thoughtful, I can only imagine that's how he wanted to be a lot in his life, but he's probably never able to because people wanted to accept him for being the funny guy. And so when he would open up, I bet they were like, where's the funny guy? You know? Where's the guy that that makes us laugh? So he just wanted to fit in. I mean, it it's interesting, like, using him as an example, but using so, I mean, a lot of comedians come from A depressed. Horrible background that are currently depressed. And and often, one theory of comedy is a way of taking pain Uh-huh. And and have and converting it through comedy into a a safe way to make art. But the comedian themselves who does this process is often in great pain. Mhmm. And, you know, with Robin Williams, I was so talented, but to but to be on all the time, like you say, you know, he had to dabble in drugs. He had to, come to the hospital. Right? He was a serious addict for a long time. I remember being on a plane with him one time, and it was a Virgin flight from, I believe, LA back to New York or it might have been New York to LA. And he was sitting right there on the front row, and I was like, oh, shoot. That's Robin Williams. I was like, wow. And there was a woman sitting next to him that he didn't know. I could tell it was just, like, another passenger. And already, he was, like, doing, like, a whole performance for her and, like, telling stories and stuff like that. And I'm like, this guy probably never can shut off because everyone wants to ask him a question or say something about missus Doubtfire or the genie or whatever it is. You know? It's like, when does he get to just drop his mask and be vulnerable and just be himself? You know, whether that's vulnerable or just, like, chill. You know, it doesn't have to be, like, constantly crying or vulnerable and open, but how can you just fully be who you wanna be at all times and feel accepted for that? That's the challenge. Most of us don't feel like we'll be accepted or people will still like us or love us if we're not producing one of these masks, if we're not fitting in in the way that they want us to fit in. And that starts from early childhood. You know, when I was picked last on a sports game, I was like, okay. In order to fit in with this class, I need to be a better athlete. I need to fit in. You need to be picked first. I need to be picked first. You know, if a kid is bullied, he's like, okay. I need to get bigger. I need to become, you know, a bully so that I fit in with these other bullies and that I don't get picked on. Whatever it is. You know, when I was, constantly felt stupid in school, I was like, okay, I need to learn something. I need to become more desirable sexually so women will still like me even though I can't even stand in front of the class and read aloud what's in the pages of a book because I just wasn't able to see it and read it out loud. You know, it's like, again, if if you're undesirable and you can't get a girl, you might put the Joker mask on and say, well, at least I'm gonna get everyone to like me and laugh with me. Or or or, like, when when, when Jim Norton came on my podcast and he's a great comedian, he said that, for him, you know, he was just we grew up together, and he was kind of a a small kid. He said, for him, comedy was a way to fight the bullies because the bull a bully did not wanna be made fun of. And so he developed his sense of humor, which is now one of the best in the world. Yeah. He developed a sense of humor as a way to fight the bullies. Right. Exactly. So, again, we do all these things to feel like we're fitting in, to feel like we're more accepted, to feel like we're not gonna get picked on, we're not gonna get bullied, and we're you know? And we're gonna get results, and it works for us. Describe the alpha mask because I think that's the only one that's not, like, immediately self explanatory. Alpha is kinda like, in a sense, the aggressive and the alpha can kinda go hand in hand, but the alpha is really the the guy who can never he's always gotta win and be right in every instance. He's the guy who's in a bar. If there's a fight, he's gotta jump in and, like, act like he can take the whole world on. He's the one who, just always is puffing up the chest, always is peac**king, and can never drop his guard in that sense. He's gotta be like the silverback gorilla who's unable to just have graceful energy, but the one who's always gotta scream and shout and act like he's the biggest, baddest wolf. That's the one that's usually the most scared. So so, I mean, you've described some instances of vulnerability where you kind of cover it up with these masks that that you talk about. Where have you seen yourself on the bad side of this? Like, I'll say one side's the vulnerable side, one side's the bad side, just to simplify. Yep. Before you wrote this book and maybe may maybe something that triggered writing this book, where do you feel you might have been on the abusive side of these masks? I think the aggressive mask, definitely, because, again, I looked like I was always, like, a loving, happy guy. But if someone said something the wrong way to me, it's like a trigger that I couldn't control, that I just wanted to beat them up. I wanted to fight. I wanted to defend myself. It was online. I just wanted to, like, you know, text back and, like, constantly defend myself. If it was in person, I had to, like, literally puff my chest up and get aggressive and kind of, like, you know, put my authority over the person to try to get them to back down, to show them that I was worthy or big enough or strong enough, and I wasn't gonna get to step 2. So the aggressive mask was 1. The sexual mask, you know, there's times where I've been single where I've just said, you know what? I don't wanna be in a relationship. I just wanna, like, have as much fun as possible. You know, I get scared of, like, true intimacy of, like, being with one person. So that's a fear that's always been a cause. You handle rejection then? Let's say you were at in a at a pool area. Younger, it was really bad when I was, like, in high school because I wasn't getting, like, all these girls. I wasn't, like, you know, I never got the attention. So now it's challenging for me because I do get a lot more attention with women, and it's like, oh, these options look amazing. This looks great. I never got that early on, so I was really scared to lose it. So when I was with a girl or was dating a girl, if she was no longer interested, it ruined me for months. It wrecked me emotionally because I was like, I'm not worthy. I'm not good enough. And so I started doing things to overcome all my fears. You know, I I can't remember if I told you this last time, but when I was in high school, summer 1 year, I was just so terrified of girls that I said I no longer wanna feel this. So from junior year going to senior year You turned gay. I turned gay. Exactly. Yes. I, I said to myself I gave myself a challenge. I said, every time I see a girl I like, I'm gonna go up to her and say hi. Anytime I get that, like, feeling of butterflies, I'm gonna go up and talk to her. It was terrifying. I did this all summer long. And then, eventually, it got easier, though. Like, I started to go up to girls. What was, like, the worst rejection you got during that time? I can't remember, but just, like, them not even replying to me was, like, a big rejection. You know? If they just didn't even respond or acknowledge me, I was like, oh, I suck as a human. You know? But the more and more I just started to learn, like, okay. What's something I could say? How can I, you know, shift my energy? How can I just make it fun and playful? And girls started to respond, and I started getting phone numbers, and I started going on dates. And I was like, wow. This isn't that scary after all. If they reject me, it's not the end of the world. And that was a powerful lesson for me just to, like, constantly try to become a better person of, like, overcoming the fears. And I did that with everything, in public speaking when I was afraid of, like, speaking in class all the time because I couldn't read aloud. So I went to Toastmasters for a year every single week. I pretty much did what you did for public speaking. Every single week, I was dedicated to mastering this craft and just overcoming my fear. And it made me a more confident human being in general. It allowed me to kinda overcome some of these masks, but also pick up new masks because I used these other things to get what I wanted, to act like I was smarter or better than. So it's like a constant battle of, like, being aware of how am I showing up? Is this mask working at all levels? And really, what it comes down to when I think of what it means to be a man and masculine, I think of it to to live in service. The man who finds a way to live in service to himself, his dreams, his needs, and everyone else around him. And So so let let's unpack that in the sense that, you know, let's say, you know I'll say a couple of masks here that have probably ruined good decades of my life, which is, the material mask, where I felt like if I didn't have money, nobody would nobody else would value me, so I wouldn't value me. And when you lost all your money, you were, like, in deep, dark depression. Yeah. It was horrible. It was the worst. And, look, some there's some reason to be in depression when you lose all your money because, you know, if you have a family to raise, you're gonna be depressed. But it was even worse than that for me because I really thought when I had a lot of money, I really attributed my self worth to my net worth, and I saw people treated me better. And so I figured they only treated me better because I was the kind of guy who can make a lot of money rather than because I had a lot of money, and so I just attributed all of my self worth to my net worth. Yeah. But we don't wanna live that way when people become our friends because we have money. Well, that's why I would I would justify it. I would say it was not because I had money, but it was because I was the kind of person. I was a genius for having a lot of money, so I was the kind of person who could get a lot of money. So I would switch from the material mask to the know it all mask. Yep. Yep. And then when I lost money, I lost both masks. Really? So You're like, oh, I don't know it anymore. Yeah. No. No. No. I don't need it, and I don't have money. Right. And so because you have them the same. Exactly. And it probably didn't feel good. I felt like They probably gonna die. Exactly. That's why it's 6 to 1 man over. But by the way, all of the like like we said earlier, all of these masks will kill you. Yep. So that that that was certainly one of them. And, you know, and also a little bit of having money is you think you're invincible. You think if you make money in one area, you can make money in any area, and I learned very quickly that that was not true at all. You made a big investment somewhere, and you're like, oh, that didn't make me anything. I lost it all. Yeah. And and I thought, like, how could I how could I lose? I'm I thought I was a know it all. I thought I was a material like, I knew everything about money. I how could I how could I just So then I would suddenly 3 masks would would destroy me. And, it was it was hard. I really felt really bad. I mean, then I got divorced, so I didn't I you know, all my masks were coming off at the same time. Yeah. I never had the athlete mask. Right. So all of You have the, the chess athlete mask. That's the thing. So so at one point, I figured, okay. I'm not gonna be an athlete, but I'll be the best chess player out there. So I was in in New Jersey. I was the highest ranking young player, and, the new the high school champion of the of the state. And if I would ever even lose a game, I couldn't go to school the next day. See? So So you did have the athlete mask. Yeah. That I guess that's the alley. Did have it. Well, chess is not quite a sport, but yeah. It's alright. You had the same mindset as an athlete. Yeah. You had to win at all costs, and you were a sore loser. Yeah. Definitely a sore loser. And that hurts your relationships and your life. Yeah. I mean, there was one time I lost a game. I literally just threw my hands across the table, threw all the pieces to the floor, and just walked out of the tournament. So and and everybody was laughing also. Yeah. So it was horrible. That's a mask. You know? When we when we do that, it shows us that we're not able to emotionally express ourselves in a healthier way. But then what happens is is you think you get over a mask, and it feels like, oh, great. Like, now if I play a game of chess, I don't really care if I win or lose. Yeah. I wanna play the best game I could possibly play. And then I think to myself, did I get over that sort of mask, or have I just switched it to something else? Right. So now, for instance, if I if I am doing stand up comedy, I go up on stage, and nobody laughs, which is whether you do it 1 year or 20 years, that's always gonna happen. I feel really, really horrible. Whereas I might not have always felt that horrible about, you know, not making people I've always been funny, but I not now I'm doing it kind of in this, you know, skill minded way. I really want to be number 1. So here's the thing. If we can if we can take that, as opposed to getting feeling horrible inside, as opposed to, like, saying that mask is on our face and it's a part of us, if no one laughs at my jokes, instead of saying, oh, they don't think I'm good enough, you can what you could do is take that mask to the side and say, they don't think that mask is good enough right now. So it's not actually you. It's like something separate that's on the side, and it's something more objective over here that you can be like, okay. It's just a thing. What can I learn from this thing? How did I not show up in a way that made it work today? And how can I apply it differently tomorrow? It's not who I am. It's what the mask is right now. And if we can do that, then the mask is infused to us and doesn't become a part of us. When someone makes makes fun of us or we don't get results or they don't laugh at our jokes, whatever it is, or the girl says no to us, we don't have to take this personal attack on us. It's an attack on our mask, which is essentially our ego. And when we can separate that, we can still say, well, I still am healthy. I still have great friends. I still have this relationship or this going for me, and I'm compassionate, giving, loving person. I think it's hard, though. So hard. It's an interruption. Right? It's so hard. It's an interruption to a thought pattern that you get addicted to. It's extremely hard. Let's stop to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Let's say I'll I'll just compare these masks to levels of being, an addict. Mhmm. Right? So if you have the material mask, you're addicted to that high you get when you make more money. Or buy something. Yeah. Whatever. Or if you have the athlete mask, you're addicted to winning the game. And if you don't win the game, it's as if you're getting you're not getting the drug you need. Yeah. It's a horrible feeling. So it's an addiction, and I think it's very hard. You know, people are lifetime addicts. They can't you know, once an addict, always an addict. You can't get over addictions, really. It's very hard. That's why I think it's a constant process of being aware. So every morning, I focus on how do I wanna show up today. And I think about all the instances that could go wrong. Someone could cut me off. Someone could say something nasty to me. I could get a nasty email. My girlfriend could say something to me. Whatever. I think about the things that could go wrong, and I say to myself, okay. How do I want to react and respond? As opposed to reacting from automatic pilot of anger and frustration, how can I respond from a place of realizing it's not about me, it's about the situation or about them, and staying committed and focused on my vision for the day? So as an example, this book as we're talking, this book is gonna come out in a week. By the time this podcast is out, this book will be out. What if this book just doesn't do well, and you get, like, the worst reviews, and, you know, you've worked so hard on it? You know, the more you work on something, the more Here's the thing. It's funny. I've come to peace with it because I've thought about this. You know? I'm listen. I would love to hit number 1 New York time bestseller, but I'm also, like, if I didn't get on the list at all, how would I feel? And I'm so focused like, my ego would be hurt, and I'd be sad, and I'd be frustrated because I'd be like, man. I work so hard and people don't recognize this or whatever. Yeah. Because anything you work hard at, you don't wanna be trashed at. But I believe, like, I've become so at peace with it already either way, whatever happens. Because you know what? I'm focused on more the vision and the process and the message than the result because I'm not defining the results anymore based on my self worth. If I don't hit the New York Times list, it's okay. Like, I've already hit it once. Like, it's not the end of the world, and I'm so focused on giving the message to people to help them heal, help them overcome things that they've been held back with for so long, that it's more important to me to get the message out than to get the result. So to some extent, you can say, you know and and this is I'm just restating what you just said. But to some extent, you could say, look. I did the best I could do in the process. That's it. Like, I wrote a good book. It's a great book, and I but I can't control the outcome. Yep. But I can you're also diversifying the possible outcome. So one outcome is, a a 1,000,000,000 people like it, and it hits the New York Times number 1 on the New York Times bestseller list, and that's great. But another outcome is But if no one reads it at the same time, it's like, well, then it doesn't help anyone. So it's like, if I get all these sales, but people don't read the first three pages, and it's like, well, what's the point? But but you did well in the process, and so that helps you determine that. You you gave yourself the greatest chance for somebody to read it. I feel great about the process. I know I gave them my all with the process of the book. I know I'm giving my all right now in terms of launching it. And, you know, you have other outcomes, which is that, look, you're gonna have comp you throw your your business is you throw conferences. You you empower people. You have an email list. Yeah. You have people who follow you. So you know you did the best service for them, the people who already have signed up for you, and maybe more people will sign up for you as as a result. Exactly. And and so it's almost like you can diversify outcomes. Exactly. And that's a good way to sort of, wear this particular success book mask, you know, is by diversifying the outcomes of of how you define success for this. I haven't put my whole life into one book. Mhmm. Where if, like, as an athlete, my whole life was around, you know, being a college player, making pros. And if I didn't make it, then my life was over. This isn't my whole life one project. And I think I think diversification is really important. It helps. Yeah. I've got other things I'm working on that are amazing and fun and fulfilling. So it's like, okay. What's the lesson? If it doesn't hit the list or doesn't do this, like, what's the lesson? Just like Conor McGregor, if he loses a big fight, what's the lesson? And I gave it my all, and this is what champions do. Sometimes they fall, and it's time to get back up. And then I think that's how I'll approach it. I think I think what's the lesson is a very important, almost mantra. Like, if something is not going the way you think let's say an argument is not going the way you think. I think even asking what's the lesson here? Like, what am I not hearing? You know, you you talk about, I forget which story you tell. And, by the way, the the book's re very well written in the sense that you interweave your own story with these stories of very interesting people. One of them says, you know, we're given 2 ears and a mouth, and that's the proportion by which we should should listen. Mike Rowe. Mike Rowe. Yeah. Who who who's got a very successful podcast, very successful show, Dirty Jobs. So it seems like like you were talking about, you know, arguments before and how you had to win those. Always. You know, maybe one way is to always take a step back and say, what am I what am I not hearing here? What am I not listening to during an argument? And this is, again, a couple, like, simple takeaways would be in the beginning of your day, think about how you wanna show up, and think about how do you wanna respond in situations that don't go your way versus reacting in a negative way. And just try to prepare yourself. You're not gonna be perfect. I'm not perfect. Even last week, I got super pissed. I wanted to, like, scream and yell at the airport because I missed my flight, and I wanted to scream at the customer support person. Why'd you miss your flight? It's a whole another story. I didn't wanna go into that right now. I was actually there on time, and I forgot my ID. So I had to go through a whole process of, like, getting on the phone with, like, TSA and all this other stuff, and they had to, like, pretty much strip me down naked, and it was, like, a whole thing. And the, TSA person was like, don't worry. You're gonna make it. The gate's right there. And I was like, listen. The doors are closing in 2 minutes. On my phone it says, so I gotta go now. And they're like, oh, we have to check everything in your bag and swab it all and, like, everything. I was like, I'm not gonna make this. And then they were like, you're fine. Trust me. You'll make it. I'm thinking to myself, man, I've never missed a flight, and I don't think I'm gonna make this one. Could they have held the plane? No. I asked them. I go, can you call? Can you do this? They're like, it's gonna be fine. The gate's right there. Like, you'll be good. You got time. I go, Alright. And so I'm sprinting with my bag and, like, shoes in my hand when I'm done, and the gate just closed, like, right before I got there. The plane is sitting there. I had to be there for this thing, this speech I was giving. And I'm talking to customer support. I'm like, is there any way you can open the store? They're like, no. There's no way. I'm like, the plane is still there, and for, like, the next 25 minutes, it's still there. And I'm like, I wanna scream at her. I want her to, like, kick a trash can over, punch a wall, and go into my automatic response of aggressiveness. It was a couple weeks ago. And I just, like, am fuming. And I don't say anything to her because I'm like, I don't wanna make a scene right now. And I go, how fitting is this that I'm writing about masculine vulnerability and I'm about to, like, make a big scene and, like, just rage and be angry. And I was like almost like writing this book gives you an excuse to not do that. It's it's holding me accountable. Uh-huh. And listen, I'm still gonna make mistakes. Like, I still wasn't perfect in that conversation with her. I was kind of, like, passive aggressive, and I was like, is there any you know, I was kind of I wasn't perfect. I wasn't graceful, but I didn't punch a wall. I didn't kick a trash can, which I was literally looking at thinking of kicking this trash can and making a huge scene of being an angry customer when really it's my responsibility. I shouldn't have forgot my ID. Define graceful. I think someone who can have a calm conversation as opposed to someone who just reacts from anger. So graceful is someone who can be like, oh, man. This really sucks, but what can we do about this? You know? Is there anything any other options where I can get on the next flight? Is there anything I can do? You know, is there anything you can do for me? You know, I'm in a tough spot as opposed to, what the f**k? You know, like, screaming, which is what I wanted to do. So, again, it was like, wow. How fitting is this? And I'm gonna continue to make mistakes. I'm gonna continue to wear these masks for the rest of my life. My goal is to have them on less and less and to be mindful of them when I do wanna react in situations. And, you know, a girl wants to if I'm, you know, in a relationship and a girl wants to sleep with me, I'm not just, like, drawn to it right away. I'm like, okay. I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to come in a relationship. I'm not just going to keep living with the sexual mask. You know, something in my business, there are a lot of opportunities that have come to me, like with you right now, that are amazing money making opportunities, but they take me away from my vision and my purpose. And I'm like, what What's an example? Just like working on different products or courses or speaking at different events that I just don't care about. That'll take me like a week away from something where it's like, oh, it's a good money making opportunity, but is it really gonna fill me up emotionally, spiritually? Is it going to make me feel like I'm making an impact? Or am I just doing it for the money? I think that's super important. I think when you could say no to money because of a a bigger vision and purpose, that's really powerful. Yeah. And if I just kept doing things to make money, I'd be like, what am I doing all this for? You know? It wouldn't be as fulfilling. And I lived that way for a number of years where I was just like, I gotta do more of these trainings. I gotta do more of this. I gotta go to every event and make more money. And I would do it in the middle of the night. I wouldn't sleep. And I realized, like, it's not helping the rest of my health and my relationships if I focus on these things that aren't meaningful or if I don't give myself a a cut off time or when to stop working, whatever it may be. Because you have to you have to rebuild your energy. We only live one life. Absolutely, man. Yeah. If I sleep. You know, people people work so hard, and they get so stressed, and then they just die. And then they have cancer, and they have heart attacks, and they have they get a £100 overweight. It's clearly linked to all these things like heart attacks are clearly linked to where your mind is at. Exactly. No one no one ever says, oh, I had a heart attack because my my left ventricle was clogged. No. They say they got a heart attack because my job was stressful, or I was in this in the middle of the night. Was horrible, and I couldn't get out, and I did not express myself, and I was constantly overwhelmed. Yes. And this is why you look better than ever. You know? Since I've known you, you're like the healthiest, your skin is the clearest, you have the most energy. Yeah. You're about to be 50 years old. I'm gonna be 50 years old in in what day is today? I'm gonna be 50 years old 3 months from today. Wow. But it feels like you've been very aware over the last few years, your journey. You've been so self aware of the things that you've been you've been doing that have worked and haven't worked, and you've been more mindful about stuff. You know, you've got rid of all your material possessions and said, I'm gonna live with, like, 12 things on my body for the rest of however long until you wanna get more things. And you've eliminated these things, these masks that didn't serve you. And it's almost like this freedom that started showing up in your life, this sense of weight off your shoulders because you used to have this, like, look about you with the world on your shoulders. Now you're just so light looking. Well, let me ask you this because, obviously, since, on pages 1883 through 186 I know what you are. Is all James Altucher. So why do you decide to include me in your in your book? Well His name is James Altucher. I know someone who's been in the thick of it, and he's messed up a lot. Well, as I was writing it, I was trying to think of examples of men in my life that could kind of fit in with one of these masks, who is a good representation of these masks. And, you know, for example, the sexual mask was, like, Tucker Max and Neil Strauss and By the way, this entire book is, like, a list of my, like, biographies of all my friends. Exactly. Even in the paragraph where you mentioned, right above you mentioned me, I love Cheryl Strayed. So Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Jesus. She's great. You know, in the material mask, I I talk about Tai Lopez. Right? I'm talking about I've been to his house as well. Exactly. Yeah. And, again, it's not trying to make men wrong. I'm not trying to make any man wrong in this book because in every chapter, you see me talking about how I've lived with the mask as well and, like, my worst cases. But it's just kind of examples of, like, okay. Here are men who have led with these masks, and they got amazing results. Like, it works. But here's how they struggle at the same time. But I have an I have, I I want I this is actually not from an ego point of view. I do wanna hear why you included me specifically in the know it all mask because then I have a question about it. Sure. I think for me, you're just like a brilliant guy who always knew how to build up businesses. You had the answers. You were smart in chess. You read a ton of books. You just had a lot of information, and people always looked at you as very smart. That's one of the examples. Yeah. I didn't think you were, like, ever put people down for, like, knowing it all. That wasn't part of the example, but it was you were an example that I knew personally that I was like, this is a guy that has a lot of answers, is brilliant, is looked at as very smart. And then and then what you you point out, you know, my failures because I failed at all these things, and then I was open about them. Yes. And that's how this removal of the mask. Yep. But then I would say, and and and, of course, by removing that mask, a lot of people who related to that, I you know, were drawn to my writing, and Mhmm. I got, Your vulnerabilities made you so relatable, and people started to trust you more. So when you open up and say, well, actually, I don't know at all, which is what you do every week on Facebook, which is why you're one of the best writers in my mind on Facebook, it's like, man, people like you more. They trust you more. They wanna buy from you more. They wanna be around you because they're like, here's a person who has great results, but he's still sharing the lessons he learned from the things he didn't know. And that is a powerful example. I think though that became also an addiction for me. So Yes. Sharing my vulnerabilities Constantly being vulnerable. Yeah. I kind of almost put on this self deprecating mask. True. So if I didn't write, like, another self deprecating story about myself every day, I felt like I would disappear. Like, people would stop valuing my writing. And so I went from one addiction to another addiction. But I think there's a balance. I think it's a balance. I think I'm better at that one now Yeah. But then I might fall into other addictions. Like, it's very hard. Because, listen, when I opened up 4 years ago about being sexually abused and and did this podcast and this post, like, I got 100 and 100 of emails. It was the most downloaded episode I'd done, and it was like, wow. When I open up for the first time about something that I'm scared of, people, like, acknowledge you, and they, like, tell you how courageous and brave you are, and they email you when all this stuff happens. And, you know, you wanna keep doing that. You wanna keep getting that acceptance, that fitting in feeling. And I think it's a balance. It's like every day we can't just, like, cry about, like, how we're scared or vulnerable or whatever is happening with us because then it's not real either. It doesn't feel real. So how did you overcome that at that point when you saw, like, oh my gosh. I just did something I didn't do. It got rewarded enormously. I think I was so scared still to talk about it. Like, for me, it wasn't still comfortable to talk about it on a consistent basis that every anniversary of that podcast, I would kinda repost it on Facebook when I saw that, like, that came out on Facebook or whatever. And lately, I've been talking about it more because the book's been coming out, and, you know, it's crazy because it's, like, that's the post that gets the most likes or the most comments and the most engagement when you start to open up about things that people usually don't open up about. And so it's like, you know, part of me wants to keep doing it more because it's gonna keep getting engagement and followers, but I'm also I get to balance it. You know? I get to just keep being consistent with the positivity I put out, the content that is inspiring to me and part of my vision, and not just come from a place of, well, cure all my vulnerabilities every day. Because I think it's not powerful either. I I I agree with you, and I think, I think that's really important to kind of, again, interweave the 2, which you do a lot in this book. I mean, this is a great book. I will summarize this book in a second, but I also wanna, talk about all the other things you're doing. Yes. Well, for one thing, maybe that you didn't suspect this was on my list, but how the hell did you get on Ellen? Twice. Twice with a replay. So 3 times I was actually on, but, you know, I've got a great relationship with Scooter Braun, and, we've been working on some things behind the scenes that we haven't announced yet that hopefully we'll be able to in the next month. Likewise, no one's listening. You could Yeah. Yeah. We're working on a a show together, but I can't say where and what it is yet. But, we've just been friends for years through, like, Pence the Promise and Adam Braun. And when I moved to LA, we played basketball together, and I've had him on my show a couple times. And the last time I had him on my show, he was just like, you know, you've got a gift. You've got, like, you know, a way of interviewing. There's not many guys who kinda look like you, your age group, who are open to talking like that and and asking those types of questions. And he, he said, you know, we should get you we should get you your own show. We should do something together. And he, you know, connected me to Ellen's team right away and was like, we should do something with Ellen. And so just kind of through that process of working on a show together, he was like, well, let's get you on her show and start kind of, like, building you up. So he made the call and yeah. And did you have fun? It was probably the most terrifying thing I've done in years. Really? I was so nervous, which I usually am not that nervous anymore for, like, interviews or speeches. But I think I just built her up so much in my mind over the years. And just the allure of being on Ellen, it's, like, the biggest talk show in the world, and I was just it was like the morning of, I couldn't I couldn't there was nothing, like, meditation, working out, nothing worked. I was just, like, constantly nervous. And, but it was a great experience. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. I will say well well, the other thing I'll say before we summarize the book, your next big conference Yes. That I'm gonna speak at. I'm looking forward to that. Summit of greatness 2018. Summit of what what what month is it? What day is it? It's October 3rd through 6th, summit of greatness.com. Who else is speaking? It's a good question. It's a year away, but I I thought you were something live up. It's a year away. I haven't I haven't confirmed them all yet, but we've got some big, big names. Alright. Alright. I look forward to that. Yes. But it's it's the year of choosing yourself, 2018. Excellent. I'm I I'm I'm still choosing myself, so that'll be good. So Lewis Howes, the mask of masculinity. Oh, there's a subtitle. I always forget subtitles. How men can embrace vulnerability, create strong relationships, and live their fullest lives. I think this is a great book. This this you tell your story throughout each chapter. You tell the stories of others. There's a a lot of great stories of people I know personally, so it was interesting, but also a lot of people I didn't know. And I think it makes, enormous sense. Like, with each chapter, I kept thinking to myself, oh, yeah. This is when I wore this mask. This is how I've either gotten through it or how I haven't gotten through it yet. So there's a you never leave these masks completely behind. Like, I'll always have the material mask, the know it all mask, and and various other masks that that that pull at me. But I think, like you say, you become awareness is key, and a book like this certainly helps with awareness. So I highly recommend it. I hope people buy this, and, look, keep, keep coming on the podcast. Thanks once again, Louis. Appreciate it, James. Next time on The James Altucher Show. I think that I felt that there could be performance in every man, that every man could perform his life or his situation or his trauma or his successes or his failure. We're troubled people in a troubled universe. We have to find our way. And how you find your way through the tragedy, it's all tragedy, wouldn't you say? It's more tragedy than comedy. Of course. Yes. You knew what would be both important and entertaining to the viewer, and I think that's why you have 26 Academy Awards. The autopsy shows were great. It's really hard to have a vision that nobody ever had before that then becomes successful. But that's the only fun for me. To me, autopsy was the darkest because to see that your your body was chopped meat. I realized we were made of chopped meat. I realized that what was human was, consciousness only, that the rest of us was just matter. That changed my life. That autopsy changed my life. Yeah. That changed my life. I just saw the human body for what it was. It was this miracle of plumbing. It was incredible. It had pipes, and it had organs. And it was like I mean, I hate to say this. It was a little bit like my toilet or my stove. It was just incredible. So the only thing left was ideas. The only thing that could possibly lift you from material things was imagination. Well, let's find out why aren't you running HBO. I'll tell you why I'm not running it. Can you say vagina here? Yes. That's why. It's almost like these things came out of nowhere, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum. A few years ago, they were pennies and now Bitcoin is over $4,000 a coin. I call these currencies choose yourself currencies because they don't depend on any institution, any government, any bank to function. And they're just simply exploding in price right now. It's unbelievable. Some have jumped as high as 3000%, 21,000%, and even a rare 81,000%. Again, it reminds me of things like the dotcom boom in the nineties. Stocks were going up 20, 30 percent a day. Everyone said it was irrational exuberance, but they kept going for another 5 years, and some of them are still going. So if you're missing out on this boom, don't worry. You're not alone. We're just an inning I don't know if we're an inning 0 anymore, but we're an inning 1. Most people are not investing in cryptos simply because they don't even know how to get started. So I decided I wanna do something about that. I want to inform everyone listening how to get started. I'm offering a free 6 video series masterclass on cryptocurrencies where I'll walk you step by step through the entire process. If you're interested in claiming this free master class, please go to altature.i o. That's altature.i o slash masterclass where I'll give you all of the details.
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