The FBI begins polygraphing and interviewing persons of interest. Paulette thinks back through her relationship with Carl searching for clues, and investigators narrow down the search to three suspects. Thank you for supporting our sponsors! SimpliSafe: Get 20% off any new SimpliSafe system with Fast Protect Monitoring at https://SimpliSafe.com/RANSOM June's Journey: June's Journey: Download June's Journey for free today on iOS (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/junes-journey-hidden-objects/id1200391796) and Android (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.wooga.junes_journey_hidden_object_mystery_game&hl=en&gl=US&pli=1)
Hi. Producer Ben Kiebert here. Author Tanny Shannon interviewed Hilton Crawford in prison over the course of years for his book Seed of Villainy. And early on, Tanney tape recorded his interviews. My first interview with Crawford was in December of 1996, and I continued to use, recording devices until probably early 1999 when the warden withdrew my privileges of taking in recording devices. When I heard about Tani's tapes, I lit up. As a podcast producer, recordings like this are gold. I'm always trying to get as close to the horse's mouth as I can, so I was excited by the possibility of using these tapes in the podcast. I interviewed Tanny Shannon multiple times and always asked about these recordings. We talked about the the tapes and that stuff. I was curious if you had any more time to think about that. I've thought about it, but I I haven't come to a decision. That's kind of giving up my intellectual property and, I I don't really feel very good about doing that. Honestly, the last few years that I went and taped the interviews, we were more or less just visiting. Most of the interviewing was actually done. Throughout our interviews, Tani remained hesitant to share the tapes, and I struggled to understand exactly why. You'd mentioned those audio recordings. I don't know if maybe it's something where, you know, I can be like looking over it but, you know, it stays in your possession. If that kind of helps at all from from your perspective. Well, I'm I'm we'll have to talk about that. I'm not, you know, I don't mind sharing, little, you know, odds and ends here and there, but just turning you over, the tapes, I yeah. I'm not I'm not I don't feel good with that. But but just so I can understand, is that, like cause you're afraid of us misusing it or it's stuff that kind of you feel is between you and Crawford's. You're uncomfortable with just anyone even hearing it? A little bit of all of that. It's not something that I'm comfortable with. In the end, after making some edits to it, Tanny Shannon did end up sharing a digitization of one of his early interviews with Hilton. We processed the audio to make it a little easier to understand, and edited it lightly ourselves to make it easier to follow, But we tried to keep it close to the original so you'd have a better sense of who Hilton was and how he spoke. The former police officer was to them in 19 61. I was a patrolman. I went to work on a midnight shift. My captain was captain Kelly, very fine man. So it's still living, isn't it? Captain Kelly? I don't know. He lived on Magnolia Street. I stayed there till 1966. And then, I left and I went to the, Jefferson County Sheriff's Department there in Beaumont. I went to work over there for the sheriff r e Culberson. And I know he's living because he was on the TV saying that, even though I ran against him for sure, that he liked me and how good a law enforcement officer was. But I went to work there in the jail in 1966, approximately 1967. I went into the, you know, terminal and warrant division. And then around 1969, I was made captain in the terminal and warrant division. I stayed there as captain until 1970 2 or 73. And then, I was talked into to to running for sheriff against Culberson. I think it was for the whole county. It was right about 90,000 votes was cast that that year in the election. It was 1974, I think, was the election, and that, I got beat by 110 3 votes. What, I recall that you were obviously the year at least 1 year. What was that? I was off the year, twice. I was off the year 19 71 and then, 72. Now one of the officers of the year is just it it went from the police or the law enforcement, I believe, was from a group of black that made me the officer of the year. So, I mean, it was an award, but it came from from a church group or some group. They gave me a plaque. I mean, I I appreciated it and I honored it and everything, but the way the media was blowing, saying officer, you're like, sound like, you know, I was I was bloated by all the law enforcement team. Was the other one, was it, like, a 100 and 5 award or something like that? Yes. You know, 100 club award. Was there a specific incident that, that led to, that award? I don't think there's one specific, incident. I just know that we've read, in the criminal warrant session that I was captain of that we we cleared up a lot of cases. And and we cleared up a lot of burglaries and just seemed like they were just following our way whenever we go out to investigate something. It would be cleared up. I was also in charge of of, looking for people out of state also, and we were at a high percentage rate of, arresting people that was wanting that had left the state or left our area. And we the rest did not call on in a different place. And we were responsible for, you know, to go get them and pick them up and bring them back. So I was born in Beaumont too. Alright. Yeah. In in 1939. When I was 16, 17, I was the president of the youth groups, citywide hymn sing on every Sunday night after church. All the youth Are you a a religious person yourself? Yes, sir. Played I love sports. I went to, Peach Elementary School on Holland. It's still there. When I was in the 6th grade, I played ball for the 7th grade. And when I was in the 7th grade, I played ball for the 8th grade. And on the 8th grade, I played ball for 9th grade. And, you know, football, baseball. I played in junior high. I played, football and basketball. And then in high school, I played basketball and baseball. Did you go to your own elementary and high school there in Beaumont? Right there. Okay. Walking distance from the house. Did your parents, live together or they They're deceased. They're deceased? But, they were they, divorced? I mean, you were were you from a broken home? No, sir. No. I was from 2 loving parents. I'm Hilton Lewis and he my daddy name was Hilton. My mother's name was Estelle. Even while I was a senior in high school, I have an uncle there in in Beaumont. We coached the little league team together. And I was involved in Little League, in Ponder League, and Coke League for 28 years. I graduated 57 from last year, and I went off to Lamar University for a year there in Beaumont, like, 58. And I went to Marine Corps probably that part of, 58, 59. Or I just went in to that, 6 month program at that time, and you had to serve, like, 4 years in the reserves. And when I got out of the Marine Corps, I went up to, Panola Junior College on scholarship for a year. I played ball up there and baseball. And then, Connie and I no. We knew each other in high school, and then, it's after I got out in the Marine Corps. Got before I went up to Panola Junior College, we started dating. And, at that time, she was going to the Catholic school in Houston, Saint Thomas University. And, I I love sports and everything, but I I loved her more. So I I only stayed up there for a year, then she came back. She left Saint Thomas. She graduated from Lamar University. And I came back to go back to Lamar, and that's when I went to work at the Beaumont Police Department on that night shift. Because we got we got married in, 62, the Catholic wedding and the Italian wedding. Her daddy was from, Sicily, Italy. We got married in August, and he died in September. Cancer. We were gonna get married a year later, but he had asked me if I can go ahead and marry Connie. And I said, sure. You know? And, he he had a big hole in the side of his neck at that time and had a patch over. But, anyway, he always had a broken accent, an Italian accent, and he said asked me if I please become Catholic. Well, you know, God's a God and and if you're Catholic or Jewish or whatever, Baptist, Presbyterian. And I I was I was Presbyterian growing up. So, he said, well, go see father Sacco. Boy, he was he was the greatest man I've ever known, father Sacco. And I said, I wanna become Catholic because I need to get married inside the altar. He said, well, there's more to it than you just telling me. So you've got that to study, and you've got to learn his prayers, and you've got to go to confession, and you've got to do this and do that. And I said, I told him, I said, father, I said, I don't have time to learn all that. And I said, you know, I'm working. I'm going to school. Anyway, it got down to it when I was supposed to go see him and get everything done that day. And so I go in there and I said, I wanna be honest with you. I said, I I don't know half my prayer. This wedding's next week. And I said, we gotta get this thing done. He said, well, you don't worry about it. He's he gave me a flashlight, and he put me in a confession book. And he said, now you read those prayers. Here's a copy of the prayers, and you just tell me you're saying that you're committed, and you're in there. So here I was and I had to face it, but, man, I just ring, you know, and we talked a little bit and that was it. That's how it become Catholic. We had close to 600 people at our way, father said, do you take this woman to be your law beloved wife? And I said, I do. And there's so many stories I can tell you. It's all important. After the break, Hilton discusses various altercations that he got into, including a stabbing. As a ransom listener, you know that the world is an unpredictable place to live. You see it all the time in videos, people stealing those packages from your front door. It's time to be at ease. Time to not worry. Time to have that camera and monitor right there so you can see what's going on. That's why I love SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe is advanced home security that really puts you first above anyone else. 247 LiveGuard protection. It keeps you safe with a variety of monitoring throughout your home inside and out. And great news here. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer you an exclusive 20% discount on a new system with fast protect monitoring. All you need to do is visit simplisafe.com/ransom to claim this discount. That's SimpliSafe.com/ransom. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. I was stabbed, back in the arrest 70, 71, and the guy had some seizures. And his family jumped on us, and then I tripped over a coffee table, and then he came up and stabbed I got the score, and they called family together at Saint Elizabeth Hospital there in Beaumont, but I was alright. And we had Clorox running in our eyes. There was a black officer with me named John Bassett. I know where she was living. He was really good. In fact, he was with me when I got stabbed. But, this lady, I grabbed her and I yanked her by the hair, and she had a wig on it. She threw that Clorox on on, John and I, you know, but the other officer's car going out the door. But, man, we had Clorox followers. I just bought a new sport coat and had it on. Man, I was so upset. We were laying there at the on the table there in the emergency room, and they were washing our eyes out and everything. And I and I knew that my coat and my tire was all burnt. And I could see, you know, it turned white. And, I said, man, they burned everything. I said, John, I said, you wanted to be white all your life? I said, I hope you're white over there. You know? And I was always good at my people, and I appreciated them. You know, his daddy owned a big arena out there on weekends where all the black people would go. And, I'd go out there on weekends, and I'd be right there with them at the rodeo and watching them fall off those torsion I got along with everybody. I had a lot of friends. If you had to, think back to 1 or 2 most heroic things that you did or that happened to you and, while you were on police department there or office service. Yeah. It's in the Volkswagen. He had back to the to the 18 wheeler, and he was trapped in there. And the back of that Volkswagen was on fire a little bit. And I stayed there right with him until we could get him out on that there. Were you injured at all? Or No. Okay. The only time I was really ever injured was on on the stabbing or whenever I was cutting or with that Clorox other than that. I never was. Did you ever have a shootout with anyone? The only time some barker was in this pharmacy there off of the Fannon Street. And, they shot at us and we shot at them, but nobody was hit. Other than that, no. I never did. That was the only time you ever fired your gun other than on the rangers. Right. Right. Then, the in fact, I got a letter from my, one of my cousins. Me and I hadn't seen him and talked to him in 20, 25 years. I was so involved in my business and trying to provide and do real good in everything. You know how you get away from your cousin, but they write me down once a week. And one of them said that, I found this baby in the suitcase that was, dead. And and I in one of their letters, they mentioned it, how upset I've got, and I I just stayed upset. One time on Grant Street, it was a black family. I had a warrant to to I was looking for this man. And I went there, and they I guess they had 8 or 9, 10 children there. And they were all young. And they were all just running around in this cold. And they're about half naked, and I had the heaters on. You know, remember the old open flame heaters? And, the house was just total filthy. I mean, garbage was piled up in it, and it was so bad. And about that time when I went outside and the mother came, I started getting on her, and she was had a bag of chocolate milk. And she said, let me finish this chocolate milk before I go in there because some of the kids don't want it. That didn't sit too well with me. So we we called the welfare, and the welfare team got all those kids that day. That kinda upset me a little bit, just seeing those kids there by themselves. Did you have you always attended church regularly or during this period? Were you, I'm not gonna say in the last 15 years or so. No. I didn't go regularly. I probably went maybe, once a month. Ago, but I I went about maybe once a month. John Powell, who's chairman of the board of the, you know, the Conn appliance stores. And I knew John back in the, back in the seventies. And John and I, I'd go over there, or he'd come play around the Conroe area someplace, and we'd play golf almost every week. John and I and Pat Foster, the basketball coach, would play. And then, we always had a we played at the Bullhorn Country Club all the time over there. John was a member over there. Whenever we'd go on vacations or John and I might leave 3 or 4 days just to go play golf, you know, with serve a different place. I had seasons tickets for the Astros games that I gave away. And I drive in from Houston to Conroe to pick up my boys to take them back to Houston in the same day to watch the Astros play then drive back home again, you know. And, we attended all the University of Houston basketball games. When Paul Herrera, Paul been to my house. Sam Mack playing with the Rockets right now, he's been to my house to to eat. In fact, he's he stayed there a couple of different times. I enjoyed shopping with Connie. I enjoyed eating out all of it. I did all the cooking at the house. Connie did very little cooking except for the spaghetti and the meatballs, not from the Italian part over there. But, you know, I worship my family. Kevin coming on from college and, you know, I love cooking his breakfast for him. And I bring it up on a tray, put it in his room for him. We were so close. We we were we went on vacation. We we we would all go together. I guess the most you know, unlike you, though. I mean, this let me tell you this. Connie and I are my boys, except for Chris, but we we've never had an argument. We've never cussed each other out. We never spent one night away from each other. Now when Chris was growing up and I don't know if this is in the book. He's kinda rebellious at the age of 15th. We had moved to to Conroe. We he left some of his friends over in the Nederland area. That's where we were living at that time. And, he wrecked a couple of my cars I've taken without me knowing them about it. And, I can wreck 1 one morning. I just I just got with the Randalls. Kindly was taking some spaghetti and meatballs, and I bought 2 big loads of this French bread. You know that. And, I just got home and Chris came in and, he told me that he had taken my car back in the section 2 of Rivershire. At that time, the houses weren't back there, that he wrecked it. And I said, dude, what? I said, Chris, that's my second car. And so and Kanye said something to him, and he said something smart to Connie. Well, that's the first time I felt like ringing him by his neck, but I didn't hit him. I took those loaf of bread and started hitting him in the head. And when I got through the first one, I grabbed the second one, and I had this much in my hand. When I got through, I had that crust, you know, the crust there from there. I was so mad at myself for doing it. Chris looked at me and Connie looked at me. Now I just had a car that's 8 months old. It's been wrecked, and we just all 3 started dying laughing. And now we were great family. I guess one of the my mother had breast cancer for about 16 years. And daddy had died and she had never been any close. She was really bad struck. I really didn't have the money, but I managed it. But we her and Connie and myself and the 2 boys, we went over to Hawaii. We stayed in Princeville, Kauai for about 10 days. And, probably to me, that was the most memorable trip we'd ever been on because mother died about a year later after that, and that's all she talked about was that trip to my wife. I think Chris is maybe 12, 13, Kevin, maybe 9, somewhere in the 8 or 9. You moved to Conroe in, early eighties. Is that correct? I moved Conroe in 1976, I believe, maybe 77. I remember I arrived with a Conroe with my mother. Dad, maybe mother must have died close to, like, 1979 or 80 because we've been in for a couple of years. So maybe that trip was around 78. I know it was about a year later that she did. Were you, were you with the the Beaumont sheriff's department up until the time you moved to, No. See, I had to leave sheriff's department when I ran to sheriff you know, 73, 74. Right? After the sheriff's race, the, the unions were behind me. And operating the local engineers union there in Conroe I mean Conroe in, in the Beaumont area. Beaumont port out there came up and the guy, his name was LG Moore, and he knew I needed work. I applied to be an investigator with the state, but I ain't got the job yet. And so, he called me one day and he told me that he had a job for me to be down at the union hall the next morning. And I said, for what? Because I've never done any type of work like that before in my life. And he said, he said, I've got a good job for you. Just be quiet. Come on down. Guys, you see him driving in backhoe, he b***h diggers, and, these tall cranes and tractors. I said, man, I'll kill somebody. You know? I said, I so I got in there next month. But what it was, I went out to the, there's a plant in, Ridge City. It's a look, Gus States is building a plant there. And he gave me a union car, and I became an operating engineer. And my job there, was to punch a button to turn the the welding machines on, and it turned them off at lunchtime. Turn them back on at the lunchtime and turn them off before we went home. And I was an operating engineer making about $14 an hour. But I felt so guilty. And I tell you why I felt guilty was because there were so many guys in this union. You know how they show up every morning for work? Mhmm. That wouldn't work. And here I was, walked in there and and got a job like that. For more information, including pictures, find us on social at the ransom podcast or visit our website, ransom podcast.com. Ransom is researched and written by Ben Kiebrich and hosted by me, Art Rascon. Production and sound design by Ben Kiebrick, Aaron Mason, and Trent Sell, who also did the mixing, cocreated by Austin Miller. For podcast 1, executive producer Eli Dvorkin. For Workhouse Media, executive producer Paul Anderson. And for KSL Podcasts, executive producer Cheryl Wardley. Ransom is produced by KSL Podcasts in association with Podcast 1 and Workhouse Media. You know, shows like this take a ton of time, and we're putting it all out there for free. So if you're enjoying the show, if you feel like you're getting anything out of it, please share it with a friend, drop it in a group text, and help spread the word so that we can make more shows like this in the future. Thanks so much.
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