Christopher Ruddy

Transcript

Podcast 1 presents The Steve Austin Show Classics. Scott Hall is my guest today. And, man, I tell you what, this guy has cut a very interesting path through the career that he's had in professional wrestling as a guy that I was a big mark for as I was, going through the business, watched everything he did. A guy with wonderful coordination and movement in the ring for a big cat, and a guy that really did never worked technically like a big guy, would bump for anybody, but in the right doses. To those of, The Steve Austin Show listeners who don't know who Scott Hall is, I'm gonna read a little gimmick off Wikipedia. Scott Oliver Hall is a former American professional wrestler, well known for his tenure with World Wrestling Federation, now known as WWE, under the ring name Razor Ramon, and with the World Championship Wrestling under his real name, Scott Hall. Since his 1985 arrival in the American Wrestling Association, Hall maintained a perennially high profile as a wrestler, attaining 9 World Tag Team Championships, 4 Intercontinental Championships, and 2 United States Championships as well. Nah. We're go we're not gonna go with that other stuff. Anyway, without any further ado, you guys know him as Razor Ramon, the bad guy. Scott Hall, welcome to the show. Hey, Steve. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Man, how are you? What's going on down there? You're in Atlanta. Correct? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm the outskirts Atlanta in Smyrna, Georgia. Man, bring us up. This has been interesting thing, Scott, because you and I go back a long time and, you're a little bit older than me. And as long as you were in the business and as long as I was in the business, we never really crossed paths too much. Now certainly, we walked worked a program together in WrestleMania 18, and we'll get to that. But, in trying to set up your appearance on the Steve Austin show, you and I traded a lot of phone calls and just started talking and talking and talking and couldn't shut up. I've enjoyed getting to know you just talking to you on the phone. Well, thanks back at you, Steve. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. I remember crossing paths, I think I was already gone doing Razor when you and when you were in WCW. Like, you came in right when Dally was there and I was there doing that stud thing. And then when you were when you had that sweet Ringmaster gimmick going with, Giviassi Thanks. I was just I was just kinda leave it. Yeah. The razor gimmick to go see what lady waiting for me in WCW, but, no, I also have enjoyed the phone calls, man. It's been great. Hey. Let me ask you a question. You bring that up, and like I told him, me and Scott were talking. We're calling this whole son of a b***h in the ring right here. They're I'm gonna hit him from stuff from the the present, the past, the future. I've got a lot of fan questions that we're gonna ask as well because I asked you guys to send some, questions to question to steve austin show dot com, and you did. But what did you think when you see a cat like me, and I was stunning Steve for a long time, and all of a sudden, I switched to the ringmaster. As one of the boys and one of the guys that I respected, did what did you think when I turned into the ringmaster? Like, what in the hell is Austin doing? Or this is money. What was going through your mind? Well, Steve, to be to be honest with you, I felt that, Vince didn't know what to do with you. You know, obviously, you had great ring skills, good presence, good mic skills, but they didn't know what to do with you at that time. So I think they did the best they could, tried to give DB Austin something to do too, but it's just I mean, I don't know. Have you ever hung out with Ted? I mean, I love Ted. But I'm thinking, I don't see you guys hanging out, so the package to me wasn't that sellable to the fans. Well, you know, and I'd I had actually talked to Vince a couple times on the telephone, and I, you know, didn't even wanna come to WWF initially because I knew that they had nothing for me. It wasn't till after I'd torn my tricep and, you know, hey, then I needed a job. And he called when I was working for ECW that I took that Ringmaster offer, but I was on the same page with you, man. I I knew it was a bad gimmick, but I'm it was a foot in the door, but I just wonder what a cat like you would think about it. But, hey. Let's talk about the here and now. You just got hip surgery, when, a couple of months ago? Yes, sir. April 9th. So it's been you know, what? Today is the 22nd July. I guess we're gonna it's gonna air later. But, yeah, a little over 4 months. And, Steve, I'm so happy to report that I'm healing, ahead of schedule, and I just feel so lucky, man. I'm so blessed. Well, what all did they do to your hip? Out of all the stuff I've had done, Scott, you know, I've never had an issue with hips. So is was the thing completely out? Was it was it bone on bone in the socket? What what's the story with the hip? Yeah. It was crazy. The left one was completely shot while the right one was pristine, completely, you know, fine. And the option was, try to save the bone and just do, like, a resurfacing kinda deal or just go with the real more radical total replacement. And the doctor was gonna try to do the less serious procedure, but when he got inside, he just decided to go total replacement. So just I'm bionic now, man. Between the heart surgery I had in 2010 and with the pacemaker defibrillator gimmick I got in 2010 in Houston, And now with this Bionic hip, I don't know, man. I'm thinking about getting everything done, Steve, just getting everything replaced Does that feel so good? I might just go totally mechanical. Hey, man. Let let's talk about your heart. I remember, you know, hearing about that and then, you know, seeing some stuff on YouTube, but what was the issue with your heart? How are you now? Is that thing healthy? Will you always have that defibrillator inside you? Yeah. Although, I gotta admit, the last checkup I had, the one there was one cardiologist who recommended having the device turned off. And I gotta admit, he was the guy, though, Steve, who filled in on weekends, you know, and he wasn't like my normal guy. Yeah. Something is I don't know, bro. That thing sure did work when I needed it. You know, it kicked in and saved my life. You know, I I had Steve, through my poor choices and reckless lifestyle, I had drunk myself into heart disease. So I, was able to get some surgery on Vince's time. Thank you to the WWE and Vince and Linda and Stephanie and Paul and, you know, Shane. Thank you for your kindness. And since then, though, you know, I still wasn't doing all the right things, so my heart was suffering. And I had an episode where my gimmick, my defibrillator just started firing, bro. Like, I mean, like, bang. And it hurts because normally, somebody's, like, dead or, like, out and you shock them, like, clear. I was, like, wide awake, and that thing went off a couple of times. And, since then, that that boost does not look so good to me. Hey, buddy. I I when I when I got to Atlanta, I was taking 15 minutes every morning, and I take 4. So the heart's good. The hip is good. The head is getting where it needs to be. I'm happy to report I'm all good. Well, if you, if moving into the future and they they say, hey, man. Let let's take the this whether they take the thing out or leave it in, right now as long as you're staying on on your protocol and staying away from the booze and the pills and all the other stuff, you're good to go. I mean, you know, with anything could happen, lightning could strike, but, you know, you can live a long life. Correct? Yeah. I mean, it's a it's a worn out cliche, but I like it. You know, in the words of Mickey Mantle, if I didn't know not to, you know, live this far, I'd have taken better care of myself. But, yeah, I'm, you know, only the good guy only the good, young Steve. So I think I'll be around for Larko. There you go. There you go. Hey, man. Let's talk a little bit about the the booze, because, you know, during my time, I you know? And I wanna talk about whatever you're you're comfortable talking about. And anytime, you know, you don't wanna say anything, just just let me know. I like it when you just call in the ring, Steve. No. We call in the ring, man. I mean okay. So going up down the road, guys do what they do. What drove you to the booze and the pills? Was it the loneliness? Was it because everybody else was doing it? What was it? Were you lonely? No. Well, I mean, later. Yeah. Early on, I remember I was one of those guys who never really started drinking heavier till late thirties. And, and I was no angel before that. I just wasn't drinking and taking pills. Right. But I, it was suggested to me in that era. You know, we're talking early eighties that a lot of the business was done in bars and stuff at that time. You know, you had to kinda get to know your opponent to have a somewhat of a relationship with them outside the ring so that you could produce a good product in the ring. And immature as it may sound, a lot of that was true. It was going on. At least the guys that I was hanging out with and the guys that I looked up to, a lot of that was going on. So I, I ventured on that path as well. I've been, let me see. I've been away from the business now for a little over 10, 11 years. I really slowed down on a lot of things I was doing. I I've kind of admitted I was living pretty fast, and I would never classify myself as a drug addict or an alcoholic. That being said, I I was I was the guy you know, there's always kinda different, clicks or whatever in the, dressing room, whether it's drinkers, the the pill guys, this guy, that guy. I was in the drinking crowd. What was your drink of choice? Was it beer? Was it whiskey, vodka? I was, early on, I was more of a Coors Light out of a bottle guy with some xannies. You know, Xanax are my drug of choice. I I enjoy Xannies. I never was a pill guy. I mean, a pain pill guy. I never really enjoyed them. I used to, you know, take them to trade them with other guys for pain pills. I like the beer, occasional shot at Jack Daniels, you know, well, you know, more than 1. But if I'm gonna drink whiskey, it's Jack Daniels. And when I met Hogan, when I when we moved to WCW, I became, Miller Light in the can guy because I'll never forget all 3. You know, in his contract, bro, he had a writer where they had a garbage can full of Miller Lite in his locker room on ice, big trash can, and Casey's getting there. And so one time we're in there talking to him, he goes, brother, you know, you've got a pretty big mint. You know? So he takes the can as he's demonstrating this. He goes, you know what? You know, we shouldn't be doing it, but let's face it. We're right up and down the road with beer. He goes, you got a big minute, brother. You can cover the can, at least you got a chance. They don't sell soda in bottles anymore. You know? He was pointing out that should a law enforcement officer cruise by DSP all dipping things back in the car as we make towns. Might be a better idea if it was a can. So I gotta admit that influenced me, and I switched to cans. Miller like cans since then. Well, the cans are always easier to dispose of once you get a s**t pile of them. Let let's talk about but you you were you were never a needle gatherer, were you? Or excuse me, needles. Well, not inter not intravenous, if that's what you mean. I mean, not inter you know, not in my veins, if that's what you mean. I'm not gonna lie and say a few needles have never hit my buttocks. Well yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking about the street drugs and and the prescription drugs. No. No. All all my stuff was from doctors and stuff. Right. Hey, man. While while we're talking about the health, you're on the upswing. Just the the one other kind of, train wreck type moment was, in 2011 at April 8th when you appeared for that promotion up there where was it? Massachusetts somewhere? Fall River, Mass, I think it was. Fall River, Ma*s. Dude flew into Providence, apparently. What happened? What was going on? I remember, Steve, right before that, I had a real problem with seizures for a long time. And, I don't know they don't know if it's that multiple concussion syndrome, which I think a lot of us had suffer from, you know, that brain injury that's becoming a real big deal in the NFL and probably maybe should be in wrestling. But anyway, some of that, you know, the legitimate brain damage, whether it's lifestyle, you know, of the, you know, the booze and the drugs or the, you know, repeated concussions or whatever, I was having some, you know, brain deficit and some epileptic seizures pretty regularly. So I thought I'll match for those, but I had this trip coming up. I was gonna go up there because, you know, Pete Polacco, PJ Walker, he's just incredible, was working there, and I was gonna go just to see my buddy. And I had had a seizure and fell in my home and and injured my then hip, which was already shot again. And as I was preparing for the trip to get my cardiac blood work done regularly, I'd leaped into the hospital to see the doctor about my heart, and he would say, hey. Do you need some for pain? Well, you know, my little antenna would go, well, yeah. Okay. And I took the pain pills, and I swear I've got some Somas too. And I had some bites and some Somas and some Xanax. And I hadn't I did take the Xanax, but I hadn't had any pain pills or any Somas in quite a while. And my, you know, stupid thinking was, well, let me take that same dose that I took back when I was down in the road all the time. And, brother, when I got off that plane, I didn't know what country I was in. You know, I apologized to the people who came out to see me. I know they wanted to see me on my a game, and I wasn't on my a game then. Well, what what happened after the thing went down in a ring, you guys tried to shoot an angle. And did someone take your a*s to the hospital, or how did you get back home? Yeah. You know what happened is, like, I come out of the I come out of the ring, and now there's police officers there for security tall, small, cool buildings up north, you know, a really cool venue. And I come back, you know, and I vaguely remember talking to a cop, which is not one of my favorite things, like seeing a cop. And the guy goes, Scott, are you gonna hurt yourself? And I said, no, man. I'm not gonna hurt myself, bro. But I said something at that point, Steve, I was so low. It's like, I said, but I'm not scared to die. But I was talking to the guy philosophically and stuff. You know? But all of a sudden, he looked he made this look, and I went, oh, man. I shouldn't have said that, should I? And he went, you know, now they're worried that I'm gonna maybe hurt myself or hurt somebody, you know, so they I had to go to the Stuyvesant of Providence, which for me, though, I mean, I don't mean to make light of it, but my life has been I I'm all full in psych care. I've been in lots of psych facilities, and, I feel like I learned a few things along the way. Actually, I went there and wanted to stay longer, and they forced me out. You know, they because I'm on my insurance, which is Florida, and I'm in a facility in Rhode Island, and they didn't accept it, and they didn't want it. So, I mean, yeah, it was it was just one more, like, hey, Scott. Have you got a second? Can we speak to you? You know, you're out of control. It was a good thing. A lot of people came you know, I mean, I don't wanna say a good thing, but a positive thing that happened from that experience is a lot of people got a hold of me and said, alright. Enough. You know? Enough. Get your stuff together. Scott, do you think you've ever do you suffer from clinical depression? I remember the first time I was asked that was by some shrink out in out in LA where you are, gosh, 15 years ago, maybe 20, some guys said, like, this high dollar shrink. Right? I'm trying to get all my eggs in a row, so I'm gonna improve myself. I go see the shrink, and he goes, are you depressed? I remember thinking, compared to what, bro? Right. Like, when bad things happen, I'm sad. When good things happen, I'm happy. What? What's your question? You know? Like, I, I didn't like the meds. They made me feel kinda dull. So I just, I don't know. I I I have been diagnosed with that, but then as I deal with more experts in the field of mental health, I've I've found some other issues that they want me to address. I'm happy to report I'm doing good, man. I'm feeling I feel, obnoxiously happy, Like, heat seeding heat seekingly happy lately. Well, I'm glad that you're I'm glad that you're happy. And, you know, I I was, watching some of the stuff on YouTube. I watched, when, DDP reached out and called your ass, him and Jake, and got you or whatever they invited you to come to Atlanta. I guess you were down in Florida. Correct? And now they get you calling. You're currently Atlanta. Now you're still living with DDP, or you you moved out? How's the store? In fact, Steve, when, I was I was with my son, I'm I'm helping Cody get set up, in a place here. My only son, Cody, who's 22, and my daughter, Kathy, is 18. And she's still in Florida. It's in the University of Central Florida, not too far from where my home is and where her mother lives. And, Cody and I decided to come here. I mean, I came here. The Dow invited him here. And, you know, he's a co wrestler. He's had 10 matches so far, and, there's a lot more going on for a NDC wrestler here in Georgia than there is in Central Florida. So we're in a good situation here. But to your moving thing, we decided to get a place. Actually, setting Cody up in a place because I'm probably going to end up back in Florida. But we, we we're gonna meet the landlord, in fact, as soon as we finish this interview, but we got the power turned on. It's all set. It's really sweet. I'm getting to watch him grow up and handle his business. And it's again, Steve, I just feel so lucky. I keep landing on my feet. I don't know why. I don't know why, but the things I just keep getting breaks, and I just still breaks. You know what? I I wanna talk about, Cody, in just just a second, though. But when you say you're gonna go back down to Florida, I know that's where you've been living for quite some time. You've been Atlanta for a couple of months. If you go back to Florida, left your own devices with no support system, will you be cool? Will you be okay? Is it a smart move to return just yet? Probably not, Steve. I'll never live, there again. I'm gonna go there because, like I mentioned, my daughter lives near there. And, and I'm gonna go in. You know, I've got the problem right now. I mean, this is the I don't wanna sound like I got problems. I'm really blessed, but I have some property in Central Florida that's hard to sell. Nobody really wants it. I think I'm just gonna go empty the house, and, I I don't know. I may look for a place here. I've got some friends in Miami that, that look really attractive to me. I'm looking at a situation maybe to live in Miami, spend a little time in in Orlando, and some time here in Atlanta, and just kinda do something like that. You know? Yeah. I I don't think being in that house would be that healthy for me. I've been told that for years, but I've lived there 20 years, and, you know, it was my ex wife's dream house. So I like it. But, yeah, probably not a good idea, bro, because I got 20 acres in the woods on a private lake behind me with no neighbors. So it's easy for me to seclude myself, which I've learned. Yeah. Lots of therapy maybe isn't the best thing. Sometimes, man, when you get out there and you maybe can hear that 12 pack of beer calling that bottle of vodka, sometimes, you know, you can really hear those voices. Hey. You know? And and then it just kinda leads you right back down to the same path you were talking. And, speaking of talking, I'm talking to to Scott Hall, Raze Ramon. You can follow Scott on Twitter at Scott Hall m w o. You can follow his young son who are fixing to talk about Cody under slash Hall 1, and you can also reach out to Scott for bookings and appearances for Scott and Cody. And here's the email address for that. It's scott@razor4life.com. That's number 4, not written for. Scott@razorforlife.com. Let's talk about Cody. Who all, is helping to train this young man? And how old is he, 21, 22, you said? He turned 22 at the end of May. So, he's a big drink of water. How tall is he? Gosh. I'll tell you what, bro. He's 6 8 and growing. Does he have your athleticism? I think, his mother is a real good athlete as well. You know, I just wanna say, like, not a lot of great things came from that union, but we have 2 wonderful kids. And, yeah, Cody, if Cody can move, he's I I couldn't be prouder, Steve. Well, we're talking to Scott Hall, and we just got on the subject of young Cody, his son, as he plows his way forward into a future in the squared circle. I'm gonna take a break right now. I'm gonna come right back, talk with Razor. We're gonna talk about his run in the WWF, The Kliq, all his running mates, how he was responsible by a large part of making my career very successful due to an incident what happened in Madison Square Garden. I'm coming back with the 1 and only Scott Hall. Welcome to the Steve Austin Show. Down, reverse the hip toss. Get it again. Scott, we're talk I told you we could call us in the ring. Alright. Before we went to break, we started talking about young Cody, 22 years old. Who else chipping in on his training and, how much further he's got 10 matches under his belt. Right? Well, yeah, Steve. And and the first gosh. The first 6 were in, you know, one of the things where it's once every 2, 3 months down there in Central Florida. There's just nothing going on. Since he's been in Atlanta the last 7, almost 8 weeks, he's had 3. He's got 2 this week. He's got 1 Friday, 1 Saturday. So and and these aren't real huge money making things, but at this point, he just needs to be in the ring. And speaking of that, I mean, Lex Lugar, who I've known forever and is a neighbor here. He's moments down the street from here, you know, where I'm staying now, where we'll be moving. The place that Goynar moved to, Steve, is is literally walking distance from Dally's crib. So I'll still have that support and still have some space. I think it'll make it cooler for everybody. A lot of geek, a lot of personalities under one roof here. But, yeah, it's just, I don't know what to say, man. I'm just I feel so overwhelmed with good things right now. I just Well, you you you I won't. You seem like a cat who who, needs your space, and I would imagine everybody in that house does. I know me. I'm kind of a loner by just that's my nature. So I can understand that. When we're talking real real quickly to just to finish up with Cody, who who's doing who's doing the in ring training with this young cat? What's his style? Is he working like a big man? Here because because here's the thing, Scott. When I was watching a lot of tape of you before we talked, and I followed your whole career, You're a big dude, man, at 6, 7, sometimes, you know, 3 upwards of 300 and just jacked. But you never truly worked like a big guy who wouldn't take bumps for anybody. You sold appropriately for everybody, but you didn't work the classic big man style, which you could have. And and maybe that speaks to your athleticism or or work ethic or the, you know, wanting to be able to tell a more rounded story. So, you know, what what is Cody's work style? Well, he, yeah, he is a big guy, but and so I I want him working strong, stuff that makes sense. He studies a lot of right now, you know, he studies a lot of Barry Windham. He's one of Gary Gordy, some some Dick Murdoch, Sid. You know, he likes to watch what the big guys do, you know, how they move and and, you know, their presence in the ring. He's really athletic. And back to your initial question, then I kinda slipped my mind with Jesus helping him. I have the pleasure of being in the ring with him a lot, but it's really weird for me, Steve, because I'm dad. You know? I'm always gonna be dad. Like, I'm not razor to him. I'm dad. You know? So it's like, yeah. Yeah. My dad. So it's really great. There's there's guys in the gym that works out. This one young kid, Dylan, who's a intern here for Galley at the house. He's a wrestler. He works out with him every morning. And then, you know, he's got Jake here, of course. You know, Jake is Nate Roberts to, you know, watch his matches with him. Like, when we come back from a show, you know, it's already on YouTube. The the advantages the kids have today, Steve, we didn't have these when we were coming up. They can have a match. Cody can come back from the ring, and I've got the match on my phone to show. Yeah. So while the juices are flowing, you know how it is. Well, you still got that sight. You can see what you did, what worked, what didn't work, so you can, you know, edit your style to get it really tight. His style, yeah, he's working big man, but, like, wrestling big man. You know what I mean? A little Japanese influence, some of that European stuff. He watched a lot of that. And Cody has a background as an amateur wrestler in high school. Oh, tremendous. Yeah. So, yeah, he's I think, Stevie, I'm trying to get him to to not be so focused on telling a story by being a healer or a baby face. Just be you. Just be Cody Hall. Yeah. I know. Do your stuff. Let the let the other guy do his stuff. You know what I mean? That more of a prize fight mentality about doesn't matter who's the or who's the baby. Just let the people fill the building and cheer for who they want to. Yeah. And and that will come, you know, really at a later date, man, as long as you're putting together the solid mechanics, you know, those layers of psychology. You know, that's gonna that's gonna take a couple years. But man, right off the top of the bat, when you mentioned Barry, Wyndham, Bam Bam, and, god dang, Captain Redneck. Murdoch. Murdoch. And you couldn't you couldn't have named 3 better cats to model a career off of. So it sounds like he's, he's going down the right path. And to any of the young cats, I always talk to my young fans that are trying to get into the business. And I'll give this advice to young Cody Hall, and you can follow him at cody_hallone. Watch as many matches as you can. Obviously, with the brain trust that you guys have down there between Jake and yourself, because you've always had a tremendous mind for the business. And I know, Dallas has too, but he's got so much of his information from yourself and Jake, but then all all of a sudden, you know, by the same token has formed his own opinions. He's got a great brain trust to pick from, but to Cody, I say, watch as many matches as you can and go back 10, 20, 30 years to watch the the the tried and true pure workers watch the stories that those guys were telling. I'm not running down today's product. I'm you need to stay in touch with everything that's going on, but watch as many matches as you can. Watch them over and over and over again, and then start breaking down why they did, what they did, when, and put it all together. But, hell, let's go back to the man Scott Hall himself because we've been jumping all over the place and that's what we said we're gonna do. Scott, when you broke in in your Wikipedia here, it says you were trained by Hero Matsuda, Al Snow, Barry Wyndham, Microton, and Chris Adams. Is that true? I don't remember ever having any encounters with Chris Adams, and I'm not too sure I crossed paths without notes while I was already in the business. Well, so who trained you yeah. Let's break it down. Scott, who trained you, to be a professional wrestler? I was working out with Hero Matsuda when I ran into Barry Wyndham in a Publix grocery store. And, I was Hero was beating me up, man. He was getting me really tired doing a lot of calisthenics, you know, hander squats by the 1,000, and push ups and ab stuff. And then he gets real tired, then he'd stretch you. You know? So that was okay. He wasn't charging me. We did it at his at his little dojo, and across the street was a gas station. And all Hiro wanted from me, he didn't even want it from me. I was bringing it to him because I was learning how the business worked. After every workout, I would thank him. I'd walk across the street, buy him a spit pack of light beer, bring it over, give it to him, tell him to see you tomorrow. So he was really good to me, and I was doing that. I was staying in Tampa, and I ran into Barry in a grocery store. Now I've been going to shows. I'm a huge fan of Barry. One of them, Barry is standing right next to me. And we're both eyeballing kind of the same cut of steak. And, you know, so I said, hey. How are you doing? I'm a big fan. He goes, hey. How are you, man? He goes, you know, what do you do? You know? Because in Tampa at that time, you know, you had the the USL Tampa Bay Bandits. You had, obviously, the Buccaneers, you know, and pro wrestlers there. So there's lots of big dudes in Tampa in that era. So it wasn't uncommon to see muffled up guys walking around. And so he goes, what are you doing? I said, well, actually, I'm trying to get in your business. You know, I'm working out with hero Matsuda. And he said, f hero Matsuda. He said he'll just have you doing Hindu squats all day. Meet me at he said meet me at the sportatorium tomorrow at 12 noon. Now this is the Tampa sportatorium, not that famous Right. Dallas. And, it's 106 North Albany. It was where, you know, where they shot filmed the TV, and it's where the office was. Of course, I didn't know any at that time. And I go down there now. Barry Windham says 12 o'clock. I know he's got a wrestle in Miami that night. No way Barry Windham's gonna show up at 12 o'clock. So I get there at 11 o'clock just in case. Yeah. He comes rolling in at noon, and he brings Mike Rotunda with him. These 2 guys spend 2 hours with me, Steve. I've never stepped in a ring before. I'm a legitimate risk to end your career by just laying my hands on you, brother. I'm about 290. I'm in a crowbar. I will hurt you. They took bumps from me, and then they bumped each other. And Barry would say, okay. Like, Mike slammed me. He goes, Scott, watch. Then he'd go, okay. I'm gonna slam Mike Watts. And then he goes, you slam Mike. I'm gonna watch. Then slam me. Mike's gonna watch. Then I the first pump I ever took in a wrestling ring, Steve, I laid flat in that ring in the Tampa sport. Gary grabbed me around the shoulders. Mike grabbed me around the ankles. They lifted me up waist high and dropped me just like a feel with a bump felt like. And that was my first experience ever in a wrestling ring. I still remember today. Man, that speaks to, I mean, god dang, to Barry Windham and Mike Rotunda to go out of their way for no reason other than the fact that they wanted to help his young cat out. I remember when I got into, WCW, and, Barry came up to me and said, kid, who you traveling with? And I didn't really have a ride. I was the new guy in town, and I was riding down the road with him and Pee Wee. And, know, Barry would always rent those Cadillacs. And, so he said, kid, you wanna drive? And I said, well, sure. I'd never driven a Cadillac before in my life. I'd never said in one. So there I am driving down the road looking at all the controls, and, of course, Barry's riding shotgun because he didn't really give 2 chit s**ts about driving, reading the Hot Rod Magazine. Pee wee was in the back. I almost run off the road because I'm looking at all the controls and I jerk it back. Ain't no Barry was always so cool. You know, he wouldn't sell anything unless he's in a ring. But so, you know, he just he just looked up at his magazine and said, you okay, kid? I said, yeah. We kept going down the road, but I was a huge fan of Barry Wyndham. His work there for, several years was just unparalleled. Yeah. And and so effortless, Steve. What a lot of people don't realize I wanna throw this out to you. Watch the way Barry Windham gets into a wrestling ring. Absolutely. He goes, brother, he goes from the floor through the second rope in one stride, and it looks so smooth that you can't tell how imprecally athletic it is. He's a he's like a 6, 8, £290, like, gazelle. Yeah. Exactly. And and that guy was so damn graceful and, some of the stuff that he did in the ring, which which, begs the the the question. I was gonna ask you, who really influenced your in ring style? Because when I watch you, man, I mean, dude, you're a big guy. I remember when you first when I first saw you, I guess you might might have broke in somewhere else, but I caught you on AWA as big Scott Hawke working the cowboy gimmick. But your in ring stuff was just, athletic smooth. Who did you pattern or or model your in ring style after? I don't know. I was just you know, I I was influenced a lot. I'm an army brat, so I traveled all over the United States. And then I went to high school in Munich, Germany. And so I never really got that hometown feeling for any one place. I mean, Orlando's the longest lived in one place. But I, you know, when I my parents got divorced when I was in high school, so we moved back to the States. And then I decided I couldn't take the drama at home, and and I came to Florida with some of my buddies. So I started watching that Florida for wrestling when, you know, Duffy was booking and he was the king and, you know, Barry was like the prince of Florida. And, you know, you had feeble Kevin Sullivan and all his henchmen. It was really a good time to me. It came on on Saturday evenings, you know, and, you know, they wrestled in the sport of tournaments and, I mean, the Enneagram Sports Complex in in Orlando every Sunday, and I used to go out there. And I remember thinking, I just wanted I was attracted to pro wrestling because I love the lifestyle. You know? I mean, I didn't know the huge money would be involved. I mean, it'd be worldwide and everything, and I'm all glad it was. Don't get me wrong, but I just want it to be over in Orlando. Right. So I could get dates. I just wanna be able to get a date. You know what I mean? So I thought, hey, that TV doesn't hurt, You know? And people think you're a big deal. So I was I just was enchanted by the Florida championship wrestling style. I like the I I would consider myself a southern baby face, although I I worked a lot as a heel. I like the southern baby face. Gotta be able to throw a good punch. Gotta be able to talk and smack, sell, and come back. We are one of the sell, commit, come back, then you talk about it. And, I just love that style, but my first real break was for was with New Japan Pro Wrestling. And, when I went there, you know, I went with Masa Sayido right after his his first trip back after the big prison thing when him and Tim Paterra got in trouble with McDonald's in Wisconsin. I, I went back from then and didn't realize what a big shove I was getting. I was his partner current. And, then they pulled me with Dick Murdoch and and Sakaguchi, who was like the big boss there with Antonio Inoki, they came to me and said, you watch Murdoch. We want you to do the same thing. You know, Japanese, same thing. So they told me change my ring gear from that that cowboy stuff. They wanted me a black boots and black tights and black d pads. They want me to dress a wrestle like Murdoch, so I did. And, you know, I would say Murdoch was a big influence on me. You know, one time, I'd be enmashed with Murdoch. And you gotta remember now, I don't know how crazy Dick felt about being with me. It was a big big thrill for me. I don't know how he felt about it. But and Murdoch's the kinda guy, brother. He's such a character. I mean, I'm sitting in the locker room. I'm nervous. Like, we're in the finals of the tag tournament or something. You know what I mean? In Tokyo. It's like a shoot. Yeah. And Murdoch is just dipping tobacco, playing cards up until his music's playing. Oh, geez. I wanna talk things over, bro. You You know what I mean? And I wanna talk. Who's starting? Who's what? I'll never forget one second question. Standing there with him at one time, I was in a a 6 man tournament where I was teamed with Bob Orton Junior and Dick. So I go out there. I haven't talked to either one of them. We get in a ring. Everybody gets introduced. I turn around. They're both standing on the apron. I went, you want me to start? And Murdoch, man, I would wrestle, and I would do stuff. And Murdoch would go, no. Take it down. Take it down. Take it off. Or just tag me tag me. And then he I tag him in, and he would go like this. Boom. Boom. Boom. Take the guy down. He'd go, now you do it. He tagged me in. We did that back and forth a few times just like the shoot. God. And the fans started to get with the story. Right. And Murdoch spooled me. Yeah. Fooled me. That's awesome. And it was great. Just I just had the pleasure of being around some really talented guys, and I guess it ripped off. Hey, man. When you mentioned, Bob Orton Junior, that's one of my favorite workers of all time. Oh, me too. Me too. I'm a huge mark for Orton. The stuff that guy did in the ring. You know, I was watching some, matches before we started talking. I was looking at your working punch. You always had a badass working punch as did Dick Murdoch. How did you learn that damn thing? You're a big jacked up dude. Did did the did the working punch come natural to you or was it a work in progress? You know, Steve, I I before I went to wrestling, I'm I'm one of the guys. I never had a real job, man. I worked in strip clubs as a bouncer then bartender, then I've been been blessed enough to be a wrestler all these years. I never had a real job. I'm not a very educated guy. But, on the days back then, I was really into lifting heavy. So I was lifting about 4 days a week. On the days that I didn't lift, I would hit the speed bag and the heavy bag. I had them in my garage there at my place. I was renting with my buddies in Orlando. So we would have 3 stations. We'd hit the heavy bag, the speed bag, and we'd jump rope. We did stuff like that. So my hands were always kind of trained. But with the work in front, so I can remember I crossed paths with Shawn Michaels in Kansas City, Central States championship wrestling, which was brutal. Bob Geigel and Bulldog Bob Brown, was horrifying. But we got to be in the ring 6 nights a week. And Shawn Michaels and I were hanging together, traveling together, and always throwing working punches at every at everything against the wall and everybody. You know how it is. If you're just throwing up punches I've I've created a monster now. Cody, who's, like, standing. He's in the we're here at Dallas's house, and we share a bathroom. We have, like, the Jack and Jill bathroom, and I can see him over in his room. And he's walking around every time now. He's just walking around punching stuff, throwing elbows out. You just it's like you gotta be on guard at all moments. But I guess that's how I did it, Steve, just repetition. Hey, I was watching some of your, matches. Again, I have been doing my damn research on this. I I started watching when you transitioned into Razi Ramon, and you were flipping the damn toothpick out of your mouth at Tony Chimel. And you always say something happened to the gold Chico. Something gonna happen to you. Right. Right. How often did you almost put Tony Chimel's eye out because you seemed to really take a pleasure in flicking that toothpick? Well, yeah. I Steve, you know how slick bench is TV, and I know you do know. I'll never forget. The first time I did that at a TV, I didn't know I had never been around a TV that that was that sophisticated. Like, I remember talking to somebody, Kevin Dunn maybe, or somebody under him going, hey. Listen. I only got so many minutes allotted for my match. Should I walk to the ring faster? And he went, no. You walk how you walk. Yeah. We will get you to the ring when we need you there, you know, because everything was edited at that time. There was no raw yet. And and about just, like, the first time I leaned over to give the guy my gimmick, I thought, well, here's my goals. I'm concerned about my ring wear. Right. Make sure it makes it bad. And I'm just pantomime in to to Shimmel. And later, a guy you know how to split their TV is? The guy pulled me aside to Scott, we couldn't hear you. Mhmm. And I said, well, that that's because I wasn't really saying anything. He said, no. No. Say it. We we want you to say it. I remember Steve being in the ring before back in this squash match era when I was getting the big razor push to the heel and being in there with, you know, a job guy, a guy who's, you know, less experienced. And something would go wrong in the match, often, I might blow the match. I would blow the hot spot, and I would I would look at the you know, I didn't know what to do. I was just gonna continue like we do. Something went wrong. It just didn't look good, but we just kept going. The cameraman went, hey, razor. Hey, razor. I went, what? I looked over. Here's the cameraman on the floor, and he goes, back him into the same rope and do it again. Oh, gee. So I grabbed that poor kid. I slapped him in his face, looks right at the hard camera and went, take 2. And then did it again. And a lot of times, they would edit stuff out of guys' masks so it would go wrong. My take 2 thing became kinda part of my Remember. They started they started leaving it in. Like, I would slap the poor guy. He's when it was my fault. You know? That's how slick the TV is. They can get anything over. But, you know, Conan, and that's tremendous because I remember the take 2 stuff, and I remember hearing the legend of it. And and, you know, and that was when you weren't working live, you know, obviously. Yeah. But, you know, going back to when you said you were walking to the ring and, hey. Do I need? I've got only I only have so many minutes. Should I walk to the ring faster? You know, and that's you thinking about, hey. I need to get my s**t in in the ring to get over when so many of your mannerisms outside the ring and that persona and that character and that personality was what got Razor over. So it's those it's those things that sometimes you wanna, hey, leave out or hurry up on are the are the real salt and pepper on a good steak. And that's what I think a lot of these young cats are missing out on. Yeah. Steve, I I have heard that, you know, the WWE I don't know if you've been there, but apparently, right moments from minutes from where I where my home is in in Cheleota, Florida is the new WWE, like, performance center, and I'm I hear it's the bomb. But like you're talking, I I feel real comfortable with with what Cody's doing now and what, you know, we're doing with his wrestling career because we're gonna make talent. You know what I mean? We're going talent. He's wrestling in front of different audiences and stuff. And I just think that it's it's a perfect environment for that, like, to to learn your craft as opposed to maybe being in a warehouse for a bunch of the same dudes over and over, not knocking what they're doing. I'm sure it's the best, and I know they pay those guys. But and for me too, it's a chance to get closer to my son again because there was a period when things weren't that great for us. You know? I had some drama in my family because of my lifestyle and what was going on and, you know, divorce from their mother. So it's really a chance for me to get to know my kids again. You know, my son, Cody, and my daughter, Cassie, are are cool enough to give me, you know, a a hundredth chance to be back in their lives, and and I'm just exploring that with bullets. You know, and and about that, you know, obviously, you know, WWE, it's a smart thing because, you know, back in the days when when you and I were a kid, everybody wanted to be a pro wrestler. I mean, I grew up watching this stuff and I just, you know, when I went to my first pro wrestling camp school, I just thought, you know, everybody was gonna show up. There's gonna be jacked up, and there's gonna be, like, 200 people in line. Mhmm. You know, when I went, I was the only one in shape and there's about 30 of us, and everybody looked pretty pretty, you know, like normal people. So to make the point that I was gonna make, you know, WWE is doing what they've gotta do. There there's not that feeder system anymore, so they're making that factory so they can, you know, handpick all these great athletes from, you know, whether it's, you know, the people who can't make it in football, baseball, or, you know, these high level college programs and give them a character, and that's one way to do it. But, yeah, down that grassroots road, paying your dues, making the towns, talking to the veterans. And the veteran in this case is you, the father. But, no, young Cody is in great hands. You cannot substitute, because I know you and I were talking. I know Cody talks to a lot of these promoters on the phone. He's learning the the business. He's learning how to, you know, make decisions, learn his worth, you know, see what these guys are willing to pay, and learn that aspect of the business. And you can't replace what what Cody's doing right now. No. You're right, Steve. I mean, I I feel so excited about it, man. I I I've learned little lessons about myself lately, and I found that as soon as I quite quit trying to fix everything myself and I let other people help me because so many people have been wanting to help me and have offered to help me, Then I put my pride down. I had a real problem with letting people help me for most of my life because I thought it meant I was weak and I was lacking something. But it really meant no. They're just kind, and they wanna help because, in fact, they like me. So I've been doing that better. And now that I'm just loosened up and letting people help, man, things are flowing. Hey. Speaking I mean, I I didn't mean to cut you off, but speaking about help, I I know that, when we talked on the phone earlier, you wanted to say a few words about, you know, your surgery. When you did the the hip surgery, with Dallas, you guys reached out and, created this fund, and you you wanted to reach out and say thank you for that. Yeah. If you'll give me a moment here, Steve. I just wanna thank all the sponsors of the Bionic Bad Guy. I know that times are hard now and that money does not come easy. And I appreciate everybody who donated. I appreciate your kindness and your generosity. And, at the same time, I think I we had a apparently, a thing was set up for me. I'm finding more out about it now than I did when it was taking place, but, you know, we we offered photo photo you know, 8 by tens to the fans, phone calls to the fans. I I made all the phone calls. I signed all the 8 by tens. Now I'm trying to figure out the Skype thing, and that's coming next. I mean, I've got people who are getting Skypes, and the t shirts have been ordered. We've got t shirts going out to people. And I just wanna thank everybody for their generosity. And I wanted to know that I think they made a good investment and that everything is all good. I tell you what, you've made a lot of, a lot of fans over the years. It's been a hell of a ride for you, a great career. We're gonna keep talking. I'm gonna talk about to Scott whether he liked working heal or baby the most. We're gonna talk about that Madison Square Garden incident, which helped me, cement my path in the world of professional wrestling. We're coming back with Scott Hall. You can follow him on Twitter. Scott Hall, NWO. Coming right back after a word from our sponsors. Welcome to the Steve Austin Show. Coming back, we've been having some great conversation. I told Scott we're just gonna call this thing and ring, and that's what we're gonna continue to do. And one of Scott's nicknames as Razor Ramon was the bad guy. Scott, did being called the bad guy, did you prefer working heel or baby? Steve, I gotta say I preferred working heel. I just think that in any kind of a you know, if you look at a TV show or movie or any kind of entertainment thing, you know, nothing happens until the heel enters the scene. You know, I always felt like as a baby you know, like, for me as a babyface and I was in the ring, you know, you kinda just have to stand there in your crouch because you can't really do anything till the heel does something. Right. You know? If he if he wants to walk around, mess with the crowd, do anything, you just kinda stand there. I think I like being the heel because in the era, when I came up, you know, the heel's called the match. Like, the heel led the match. I don't think that's still the case anymore. I think everything's tucked over in the back, and it's all choreographed. But back in my era, the heel called it and the bayface just kinda was quiet. So I I like that part, kinda being in charge. You know, being in charge is one thing, but also I I felt as a heel and, of course, I probably I had my greatest success as a baby face, an edgy baby face. But as a heel, you know, you can do no wrong. You can run across the ring and trip and fall down. You can have egg on your face. You can, you know, you can do anything. As a babyface, you don't have that luxury. Very true. Very true. I mean, I was really lucky. You know, I started as a heel with that razor gimmick, and, you know, Vince gave me a good push. And it was you know, I was introduced with a series of vignettes coming soon and that kind of thing. And you know how it is, Steve, when you hit some of these bigger markets in, you know, in the United States or even, you know, even in Europe and stuff where the fans are a little more sophisticated. Sometimes they're drawn to that villain character. So, you know, after several years as the heel, the Razor character where the fans were starting to turn me baby. You know, they'd be chanting Razor. Sometimes, it fights against a less popular babyface, and that's hard to be that babyface in that situation. And so Vince had noticed that, and he pitched the idea to me that, you know, he wanted to turn me baby face, but he didn't want it to be the same old thing. He didn't want somebody running into saving any of that. And that's what we did the whole angle with the 123 kid where, you know, he beat Razor. Right. And Vince and Vince laid that out to me, Steve, 6 months in advance. And we did it exactly as he laid it out with the rematch. And then the kids took the $10 and all the other heels would make fun of me on their interviews and ultimately work with Diviassi at SummerSlam to reflect this. What is So, you know, that that sounds good. Vince did business at that time. I don't know what they do up there now because I haven't been there, but, you know, it's really cool to have it all laid out in front of me months months in advance and know where my career was headed. You know, it was that's that's how it turned me baby. I never really had to change anything I did or anything I said or any of my style. It's just that the fans' reaction to me was different. It was like, well, we don't really like you, Razor, but you don't have to take that for GBX. And so, you know, the GBX was a well established field at that time, so it's just it was a great situation for me. Wasn't that fun, though, back in the day? You know, and I I was still I came around when they they were still using that big calendar, and they would flip pages and everything was written in pencil because him and Pat had set the swimming pool and had booked the territory and you could look way down the road at, you know, your path, where you were going. And, you know, if something happened along the way, if someone got hurt, you know, you'd erase something, you'd put something else in there. But it was real nice to kinda get that layout of your course. Now how did you pitch the idea of Razor Ramon DeVince, or did he pitch it to you? How was that born? Well, I, you know, I mimicked Razor even prior to that, the Diamond Stud when I I rarely spoke to him. But when I did, I would say I'm the bad guy or something. I was a huge, you know, Scarface Mark. I'm a huge fan of that movie and Al Pacino's character as Tony Montana. Yeah. So I was mimicking that. I was mimicking that, and at that time, you know, the the character in the movie was a guy who was real hungry and willing to do just about anything to be successful in his in in what he wanted and to get things that he wanted for the people he cared about. And at that time in my life, that was a shoot for me too, man. You know, I had bounced around 4 or 5 years in the wrestling business internationally, not much success in the US, successful in, like, Puerto Rico, Europe, and Japan. Not much in the US where it really mattered and was about to give up when, you know, I ended up coming back from Europe with, you know, I was married to Cody's mother then, and Cody was on the way. He was in her belly about 6 months along, and I needed a JOB. I I was considering just giving up wrestling and, you know, working at Sears or something, maybe learn how to work a forklift, you know, have a name tag on my shirt. Wow. I didn't care. I'm getting a little duplex and have some kids and have the other riches in life. And and, again, like I said earlier, when I when I quit worrying about everything, it started to happen. Right. Excuse me. I resigned myself. In fact, the wrestling wasn't gonna be my deal. I did go ahead and try to have a family do that. I have one more commitment to make in Europe, and I went. And when I came back, here comes Cody on the way, and I need a JOP. I called Dallas and I pitched a diamond stud to him. That worked. I appeared on WCW TV one time. Now, Steve, I've been calling Vince's office every week for a year. Are you kidding me? Ask him to speak to Pat because Hennig told me to do it. So I do it. I call, and believe me, I have to look at Jabron, and I wasn't Jabron. And they call, can I speak to Pat? He's busy. Can I leave take a mess? I tell Scott, I'll call. So I do it every time for a year. Now I go live here on the WCW TV one time with this new look with the black hair and this bubble and the toothpick. And I get home. I have to drive from Atlanta back to Orlando. They didn't even fly me at the top of the valuable lands of the company. I drive back. It's 8 hours. I get home. There's 2 messages from my machine for Pat Patterson. So I call Pat. Immediately, I get put through this time. Wow. I'm fixed up. And and, hey, kid. This and that. You know? Hey. Vince loves the new look. Well, tell me. You just signed a contract with those SOBs. I said, Pat, I just got done signing 1. I said, I don't wanna work for them. I said, I wouldn't have called your office every week for a year if I did. Right. And he would kinda he started laughing. I love that. He's gonna laugh. He goes, calm down, kids. Calm down. Don't worry. In a year, you'll be able to tell them New York wants you. So a year later, I went up to New York. And, again, I still had to try out. You know, I had a successful try out match, Lexington, Kentucky, 1st match of the, you know, extended hours on TV taping. I went out there, and they gave me a job guy to beat. Because a lot of times, when they brought guys in who'd been in the business a little while at that time, Vince would check your attitude by taking a guy who'd been around and then having you do a job. Right. Just to just to see where your head's at. Yeah. When they give you that big push, they wanna know you'll do business. And I had the match and Vince, you know, at that time, was really into the realism angle, like, you know, Big Boss. And he was really a precious officer, so he goes, well, and I said your father's in disturbance. I said, Vince, man, you want me to be GI Joe? I'll be the best GI Joe I could be. I said, do you ever see Scarface? He went, oh, no. And then, you know, I pitched the razor gimmick to him, the razor's name, and, you know, he went with it and, you know, the rest is history. Well, tell me the story about how you pissed it because you went into you you you already had the character down. Right? You told him what he had already had, what he had been. Doing it. I've been doing it. I never, you know Well, break it down for me. How how did that go? Doing it in the locker room. So you say, hey, man. Give me the impression. Give me the razor. Oh, well, now I had the luxury of walking in here with mister Perfect, Kurt Enoch, who was, like, my mentor in this industry and who I knew from the AWK days. And Kurt was one of those guys who always cared about doing what was right for the business. You know, he is you know, he he babied me. He carried me. We were to ask him to Minneapolis. Kurt did everything. All I did was make to come back and beat the guy. And to the point where it made Kurt look weak to some of the fans, where un unknowledgeable fans would say, hell, Scott. You should dump in if he's holding you down. I'm going, hold me down, man. He's keeping me from drowning. I'm circling the toilet, man. This cat's the only one teaching me anything about what's really going on. Yeah. And so I go in to meet with Vince, and I go prepared because I've been around. You know? I got a new look, but I'm still been in the business 5 years at this point. And I go in there prepared, but, you know, Kurt has schooled me to be humble. Yep. You know, so I go in there and thanks the opportunity, mister McMahon and this event, I'll be ready. I'll be GI Joe if you want us. You're up to these carpenters. You wouldn't notice and say hello to the pack. So I just started doing the stick, you know, and he goes he goes, well, he laughed. He goes, well, we need a name. I said, you know, I've been thinking about it like Shrug Shadow. You know, it's a different era. You had to kind of, like, the gimmicky marketable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big. Big bigger than life. Yeah. I was thinking Shrub Shadow. I remember Road Warrior Hawk gave me deadbolt, but I was leaning towards Razor. So I pitched Razor, and Vince went, well, there's already Razor Ruddock, like the boxer. I said, I kicked his monkey up and, you know, I sent this just a line right out of Scarface. It's full. You know? And he started laughing. He goes, we need a last name. So I leave, you know, we leave on a positive note, and I'm out there. You know? They raised my name off the board. I was just gonna have matches on, like, their USA prime time show just like jabroni matches to fill time. Yeah. It took me off the board. You know, I'm gonna get a push. I'm in the bathroom. I'm so happy. I'm washing my hands. Cheetos, like, brushing his hair. Tito's fantastic. Tito, I need a last name, starts with an r. He went to Ramon. Oh. Who went back to Vince's office, knocked on the door, said, raise your money with that s**t. And, man, he he he left you know, Steve, I was so flattered. We were doing I I used to just tag along to TVs because Vince just wanted me seeing how things work, and I wasn't debuting yet. Right. And we're in Ottawa, Canada at a TV, and Vince went, let's go. And we flew to South Beach with the Outlaw film crew and shot 4 or 5 vignettes the same day. You know? And I had brought wardrobe changes just in case. Right. If it's plugged in, it's okay. So it looked like it was different weeks. We shot about 5 of them in one day. Now this is the funny part. You know? You know how Vince is. He doesn't care. We're out there shooting. We're shooting. We're shooting. We don't have permits or anything. We're just outlaw, like, you know, commando style that have stopped shooting and then moving on. It starts to rain. You know how that tropical weather Yeah. Yeah. It just starts to rain sideways. So we just break it. He's on the phone. His tip is waiting for us. We we go into Miami International Airport. Now I've got a vest on with gold chains, no shirt, flicked back there with a curly Q, still pissed, you know, loafers. And in that airport, no one even looks twice. You know? And I'm jacked. But I'm with Vince, and everybody knows who Vince is. So they figure I must be somebody, but they don't know who yet. And it was just an experience I'll never forget. I felt like I was in costume walking through the airport, and in that airport, no one even looked for it. You know, when you tell that story, it reminds me a couple of vignettes we did, you know, for me as I was stone cold and and kinda laying the groundwork. But my point is about Vince. How how much do you treasure those moments going back in the day when you think about those outlaw film crews going to get this footage to get this character over. And sure, you know, you're doing it to draw money, but Vince cares deeply, and he will go to the to the, last corner of the world to help get us some b***h over if he think he can. I mean, it it but didn't you enjoy that about the guy? I mean, because that that dude's got guts. I'm a huge I'm a huge Vince guy. I'm a huge fan of Vince McMahon, and and the way he's impacted our industry will never be matched. No. And I'll never forget Steve. One thing I learned from Vince, I'm doing my very first vignette, and Vince is encouraging me to talk really slowly. Wow. He wants me to pause, talk slow. Yeah. He teaches me the difference between commanding people's attention and demanding it. Right. Like you could commanding, it's almost a babyface thing, and there's a positive connotation. We're demanding it's like being a little bit of a prisdiction, you know. And that's where he wanted me to go with it. My very first time in Madison Square Garden, Steve, which is a really special building to me. Oh, yeah. You know, The guard, man. It's you you I felt like I've made it now. I'm wrestling the Madison Square Garden. Not only that. I'm wrestling Randy Savage, and I'm going over. Are you kidding me? Somebody don't wake me up until after the match. This is a sweet dream. And and, you know, I go to the ring. I'm going out first. Of course, it's with match. I'm going out first, and Vince, I was supposed to stay a little something on a stick, then you bring a match up. As I'm standing there, you know how there's a point in your ring music where you know to hit the curtain? Yeah. Okay. Now I go. So I'm waiting, and Vince is standing there with me right behind the curtain in the car. Yeah. It's short answers. And he goes and he yeah. The short answer's 1. You know how it was. Yeah. He would he would stand back, and he'd step through to watch the mat. So I'm there, and he goes, make him wait. So I went, cool. I'll go with that. So I started stretching. I bend down like I'm stretching my hamstrings. I'm touching my toes. Then he goes, okay. And I go now. But now I'm thinking, no. I got you, bro. Make him wait. Okay. Because now I'm doing a stretch, so I stretch another 10 seconds just to go, I got this, man. I got this. Just that that he taught me how to be, like, annoying. Right. Right. You know? Like, to be a heel. Vince is a master heel. You know? He's the ultimate heel. Right. Hey. How how is go ahead. Go ahead. I got huge I got huge respect for Vince and what he's done. People talk about Vince, and they always go, well, is he really, you know, is he really an a hole? And I go, are you? Because I am. You know, I mean, like, to me, you gotta take the good and the bad people in any kind of relationship. And I would certainly think the upside of any kind of a relationship I'm ever gonna have with Prince Rupert far exceeds any downside. You know? I mean, I think Vince is a genius. Well, I mean, the thing the thing about Vince is the guy is a man of his word. He won't ask you to do anything he won't do. He's fearless, and he just wants success, and he's willing to to do whatever it takes to to find success. And I think that's, you know, that's just, the epitome of a successful businessman or or or athlete. Now now that to me, Steve, look, I know that you spent a lot of time working with Vince right there on top. In fact, you did a well, we were down here doing our thing here in Atlanta with that NWO. It was it was the angle that I think that you and Vince started along with, certainly, the rest of the supporting cast. But that thing against you and Vince was, like, one of our number one obstacles, bruh, on those Monday Night Wars. But, yeah, Vince is he he will take the bump. You can hit him with the chair. The one thing about Vince that I noticed, I'm not sure I was that cool with this, this dude's a cyborg. He does not sleep. No. He still trains. He still eats. You know? He's eating his meals. He's gonna train hard, but he doesn't sleep. So since he doesn't sleep, he figures you don't need to sleep either. Yeah. Because you know Vince, brother. You know Vince coming to do a pay per view or something? He's not afraid to have you making appearances round the clock. Right. Ants go make the town that night, And you know you gotta for me, I wanna tan. I gotta hit the gym, you know, blah blah blah. I gotta get my hair dyed. You know? But there came a point where, you know, they started taking it quite frankly, they started taking advantage of the appearance thing, and they're booking guys like crazy. And everybody was almost really afraid to say no. Finally, guys started saying no. Then they started toss you know, offering a few ducats for the appearances, but they they kinda started almost Oh, yeah. I did a lot of free ones. I'm sure you did, bro. You know, you get the memo, but at that time, it would come from JJ Yeah. Through through, like, carbon copy and Russo. And it would say, you have been personally selected by Vince to represent the World Wrestling Entertainment at this function. Almost like it's supposed to be your brand. Opening up some Dunkin' Donuts. Yeah. And you were supposed to be happy about it. Oh, they picked me. Oh, s**t. It's gonna be great. It did. Be sure to get to the building early because you have a meet and greet too. Hey. Before we talk about Madison Square Garden and getting ready to church a wrap up, I wanna go right back to Curt Henning because he said he took you into Vince's office when you dropped the bad guy idea. And when I first rolled into WWF back in the day, it was Kurt Henning who said, hey, kid. Come here. I wanna introduce you to somebody. He took me into the production truck. He introduced me to Kevin Dunn. He goes, this is a guy you need a relationship right here. And me and KD hooked up and became friends from then on. And but that was the kind of guy, that's that that Kurt Henning was to take a cat under his wing. And like you said, he carried you for so many years and taught you in a ring and mentored you. But when I first rolled in, seemingly, I'm nobody, yes, but I am competition. And nonetheless, he just extended that olive branch of friendship and guidance and took me right to one of the guys who was one of my most important relationships in the company. And I think just that speaks to the kind of person that Curt Hennig, one of the greatest of all time, was. Yeah. I I agree, Steve. And, you one thing Kurt Turpin taught me was always baby fix the crew. You know, not just Kevin Dunn, who's, like, the main guy up there, but everybody, the camera guy, you know, the the dude set up, the lighting, everything. He taught me to to use these guys as an asset, as a resource. So I would take the guy and go, hey, bro. Is there any place special I could stand when I do my interview where you could shoot a bet? And a lot of these guys will go, yeah. Actually, if you'd move up about a foot Wow. And hit this light here, or, you know, you talk to the guys with the pyro and stuff. Because at that time, I grew. I had in ring pyro, which not many guys had. It's like, oh. And I would say, like, where should how close can I get to without being a problem and this and that? You know? And, like, you have you have the resources of that giant company to to to help you with things. It just makes being a performer to be at a high level way Right. Hey, Scott. Let's let's talk real quickly. Or not real quickly. Let's jump onto the incident at Madison Square Garden. You I was talking about the infamous curtain call. The curtain call. It even has it even has a name, man. Yeah. It has a name. And I remember I was, like, mid card that night, and I'd work my match. I'd showered. I stayed. Of course, nobody knew the curtain call was gonna happen. I just always stuck around and watched the matches. Everything happens. I only remember what the last match was, but all you guys, it was you, Kevin Nash, Shawn Michaels, X Pac, and Triple h. No. Actually, Pac wasn't there then. Pac wasn't there. He gets a lot he gets a lot of heat for being there. Okay. Triple H, I had, Gold Dust. I was on my way out the door. I'd already given my notice and accepted an offer from Turner. Right. And, and so I was gonna work with Gold Dust who was new to the territory and put him around. You know? That's the way we do it. I put him over as he's coming in the door, and I'm leaving. But he got injured on a European tour. And so by the time I come back to the States to finish up my last few commitments with Vince and the part that was so crazy for me, Steve, is, you know, I'm the semi main, and and Kevin is the main of it. You know, Diesel and Razor are the last 2 matches to card, and Vince is not even selling. At this point, we are both given our notice, and he won't he just doesn't sell. I'm just wishing he'd say, hey. Let's can we talk about this? You know? Because I really wanted to stay. But you guys wanted guaranteed money as the deal was, and he wasn't gonna give guaranteed money. So you guys were gonna bolt. Y'all were waiting for him to come. I asked I remember asking him, almost a year before that time, what I could do to you know, I said, Vince, does my ring work need approved? You know? And he went, oh, absolutely not. I'm happy with your ring skill. I said, is it my microphone skills? What's likely? Oh, you're one of the best talkers we got. So I'm just curious because, you know, my pay has kinda plateaued over the last few years. And I'm wondering what I could do to make big money like the guys who preceded me. And what do I have to do to be successful? I'm asking you to help. And he knew then, you know, like, something was up, and he called me in. And and we talked about it, and I said, Vince, you know, I wanna be here. I wanna be part of your team. And it was a private company at that time. Right. They weren't public yet. So the way I looked at it is if if I made more events based left, it was literally coming out of his pocket in that era. And I said, look, Vince, I know how it works. There's only so much revenue from our shows and safe reviews. I said, but what about merchandise? You know, can I have more than merchandise? No. Oh, okay. Well, can how about Japan? I still wanna work for you. Can I have, 15 weeks a year to go work in Japan and get their money? Like, with the merchandise, it's the Vents. If it's the fan buys razor merchandise, that's their money. Now let me get that Japanese money. No. No. So, like, okay. I I really just wanted days off. I remember asking Vince, like, thank you for being so generous and paying me so well. But, Vince, what good is the money when I never get to spend it? I'm never home. Right. I'm spending I'm spending all my time entertaining other people's kid. You know? And I got 2 kids at home that I'm growing estranged from because I'm always gone. But, what happened with the curtain call, Steve, is, you know, I I wrestled, Triple h. So we're still doing that Rich Boy gimmick that time, that old, you know, Polo pants, like, horse thing and, you know, all the balance, but still a gifted performer. And, I was really lucky. I I worked with him. That was on a Sunday. Saturday, we had a double shot. It was Philly Hershey double shot. I worked with Paul both nights. Vince and Pat made those towels and then, of course, they're at the Garden. And Pat calls me aside in the Garden and wants to change what we've been doing. We're just having a basic little match, then he beat me with his finish. Right. If Pat Pat calls me to change the finish, and it goes to me, it's one of the best match I ever had in my career was in the guard against triple h that night, and he laid it out to Steve. And what he had us do was when I hit the ring and I'm doing the thing, like, handing my chain to Tony Schimmel, triple h jumps from behind, beats me up, throws me to the floor, chokes me with the cable, beats me up in that short runway and leaves me there, goes back in the ring, gets on the mic, says, you know, raise the mic, go wherever it is you're going. Because at that point, you know, the Internet wasn't such a huge deal. A lot of the marks, the fans, they didn't know I was leaving, but about half that arena did know. Yes. They did. And I'm happy to say, bro, that night, Steve in the Garden was sold out, was the largest state non pay per view that the WWE had done at that time. I mean, I really felt good where where the company was going. And, like, people are chanting, please don't go. I walked the ring. You know? And we do the match. You know, he beats me up on the floor. I'm later, and a lot of fans you know how it is, Steve? It's always the same fans and the same feet that we can use, like, the guard Oh, yeah. Or the Boston guard. It's the same fans. And people are talking to me, going, look at look at you, Raiser. Look how they treat you after everything you've done. Go ahead. Go to Atlanta. Get the money. People are saying that to me. But what Pat had counted on and what worked that night is I'm laying there on the ground, and here comes that sweet garden crap. Rage. Yeah. Rage. Yep. I hit the ring. Triple h feeds me like a job guy. I mean, bang, bang, bang, flat back, and I drew all my signature stuff to him. This is the finish that Pat gave us, and we had baby Earl Hepner in there, and I think he's a sweet referee. Oh, yeah. I'm picking him up from my finish. I'm picking him up for Raiser's Edge, which causes his feet to flip over my head. Baby Earl walks behind. Boom. Takes the ball. He rolls to the rope. You know, Vince has got that big ring that gives you that extra foot or 2 to work with. I give Triple H the the razor's edge, roll over, cover them. I'm not a fan of the guys counting itself. I wait. I get up. Go grab baby girl, turn around, get kicked in the gut pedigree. Wow. It was so sweet. Beautiful. Everybody in that building but me, knew that baby Earl had been bumped. Yeah. You know? It was so sweet. Thank you, Pat Patterson. I do the job. I lay there forever. His music's over. He leaves. As I stand up, Steve, you know how sweet that New York crowd is. They all start chanting, you sold out. You sold out. And I remember I didn't have a microphone there, but I remember pointing right at Beth because he's standing outside the curtain at that short aisle. Yeah. And I said, not Panama. You tell him, give me the money. I'll stay right here. And Vince just looked down. So then I remember, you know, now I'm feeling like such a mark to myself. I grabbed the mic, and my standard gimmick would say hello to the back. I go, stay, and I go goodbye, Steve, and I swear half that crowd went goodbye to the back. So I leave. Now it's intermission. Vince, like I said, has never sold the fact that I'm leaving. He hasn't said, hey. Can we talk? Hey. Come on. Stay here. Nothing. In fact, he's mad. He's mad at me to get my notice, which I never really figured out. Right. But, you know, it's like, hey. It wasn't like I want a new contract. So I just don't want this one to roll over. Can we talk? Right. That's the opposite. But he got like, it's like I put him up to prom. He got mad at me. And but so, finally, now I'm coming to his office there in the garden to go, Vince wants to see. I walk in, and he's talking to me. Darn it. Just still work for me. Let's work something out. I said, Vince, I don't know. I've already told b***h I'm coming tomorrow. It's a little late for this. You know, where were you months ago? And Vince is so good at putting the pressure on it, isn't he? Yeah. Well, he's doing his thing. You know, he's he's he's working me, bro, because I wanna stay there. I love that place. I just rocked Madison Square Garden. You got a new guy over, like, crazy. You know what I mean? And I'm part of the team, bro. I feel like I'm part of the team, and I'm like I consider myself a utility player. Right. I can always play every position. But anyway, I'm in there. Vince and I are having this discussion. In walks Sean, who's a dear friend of mine. In walks Sean Michael. And he said, do you mind if Ray's and and Triple H come out after my match? Just set up the cage where, you know, Sean worked against Diesel in the cage that night and took, it, you know, kept up the 10 music heat down. Sean wants me to come out. I go strolling down the aisle way. Now Sean's alone in this ring. I got a good history with Sean overall and particularly in Madison Square Garden. So I go stepping through that rage in the cage and the people are working like they're rumbling. I'm looking at Sean like, I might jump your little a*s. And he just runs over and hugged me, kissed me, which kinda killed the whole whole story I was telling. But, yeah, it morphed into this big hug fest, and a lot of guys were really angry, like, we're trying to hurt the business. I wanna go on a record saying that was nobody's attention. It just kinda morphed into this big thing. And and to me, I felt like it I felt like I'm never gonna see these fans in Madison Square Garden again, and so I wanna say goodbye to them. And thanks for your support. And, know, the 4 of us, Steve, have never been well, the 5 of us, if you count Fox, have never been together one time since that time. That is amazing. But you know you know what you know what happened out of that, Scott, was when you guys were gonna go down south and I whoever you guys were talking to, who was it? Was it Bishop down there? Yeah. Yeah. And you guys were gonna go down there and get guaranteed money. Correct? Right. Man, this this And and Steve, a guaranteed work schedule, not some whenever we need to think. It's like, oh, for x amount of days, I get x compensation and x, you know, travel, x hotel. You know what I mean? Cars, hotels. And this is unprecedented. This has never before done. But the the main thing that attracted me, Steve, was the less work. It was less work, but the point I'm trying to make it was this had never been done before. You guys set the set the precedent that, you know, that's when guaranteed contracts were born after you guys did the Hug Fest, bolted, and got guaranteed money. It changed the face of the game. Down in WCW, it changed the face of the game in WWF, which would become WWE. Before then, there there were no such thing as a guaranteed contract until you guys walked. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Actually, that's very true, Steven. I'm happy that if I benefited the other boys in some way, then, you know, I'm I'm happy for that. Hey, man. If you guys hugged in in in tying this thing up just with this story, when you guys hugged and you all left and you got in your rental cars and headed out, What was your feeling? Because you know, dude, Madison Square Garden is a very special place. Those fans are just, you know, the the best in the world. And, you know, you if you can get over in front of a garden crowd, you can get over anywhere because those people are tough. And it's not like a it's not like a, you know, Nassau Coliseum crowd or a Meadowlands crowd. You know, the garden is a garden. So what were you thinking after all that goes down? You're a utility player. You're on the team, and now you're walking off. What was in your head? Really bittersweet, Steve. To me, I don't know if you're familiar with Tracy Chapman, but at that time, she had a hip song, and it was Give Me One Reason to Stay Here Right. And I'll turn right back around. I asked the guys playing the music to play that for me that night Mhmm. Because I wanted to send a message to Vince. It's like, give me one reason to stay here, and I'll turn right back around. Like, I don't wanna leave, but Vince is gonna ask me to stay. And, and because it wasn't about the money for me. It was about, sure, let's get this money thing taken care of. How about easing up on that work schedule? I don't wanna make every little town. Can't these young guys make it? Right. You know, let the young guys go to these nothing happening towns. You know, let let the old timers make the big towns. Or I don't know what I was thinking. But it when I left, and it it was now it's done. It's a done deal. Vince talked to me. I talked to Vince. I shaved his hand. He wished me luck. I wished him continued success. And now we're all piled in the car, and we had a van because we had a I think we had Justin Credible with this dude. So we used to get a big van. We call it the Hose Mag. So I think, we usually made triple h drive because, you know, he didn't drink. Right. So he's driving. I think I'm, Shawn Michaels might be sitting shotgun. Kevin and I in the back. We got PJ stuffed in the in the back, young boy. It looks like a beer cooler. And, you know, of course, there's comes that time we gotta sit around and put ourselves over, talk about how great we are. So we did that for most of the ride. But then but then, yeah, for me, sticking in you know how, like, driving around that city, and you know how when you leave the guard in that era, we left in an ambulance. You know, when you're on the lane, everybody filed in an ambulance. I don't know if they did it when you were there, but we'd all file in an ambulance that drove us away from the building. You had to be in an ambulance to get out of the building because if you pull through in your town car, they would rip your mirrors off. And this was if they loved you as a baby face or they hated you as a heel. They would rip your windshield wipers off, your rearview mirrors, and you were proud of it if you were over, but you still had to pay for the damage to the rental car. Exactly. To be snuck out in airless. It was it was great when you the car. When you rent the car, go ahead and get the extra insurance. You got to. It was just great. And I felt bittersweet, Steve. I had no idea that, you know, any of that individual stuff was gonna work. You know, I had never even talked to Eric Bishop on the phone. It was all handled through lawyers and agents. So I had no idea what was gonna happen. I really felt uncertain about what what's gonna happen to me creatively, whereas was I gonna be satisfied that way? But I knew at least I was gonna be able to provide for me and mine. You know? And so, yeah, it wasn't a very good feeling. That's why I dealt dealt with the business side of show business for the first time. It wasn't so much about the performance in the show to me. It became more about the business, the actual dollars spent. Well, you know what? With that being said, with you not knowing what was gonna happen when you went down to, WCW, I'm inviting you right now to come back on the show, continue our conversation, and go into, Scott Hall part 2 so we can further cover your career. I wanna talk a lot more about your days in AWA. I wanna talk about your association with Curt Henning, who's one of my favorites of all time so we can cover a lot more material in the future. But on on this note, let's go ahead and ride off into the sunset. And before I give you your last, chance to talk to these people before we sign off, you can follow Scott Hall on Twitter at Scott Hall m w o. You can follow his young son, young Cody Hall, who's making his mark in the world of pro wrestling, see what kind of path he can go down. You can follow him at codyunder/hall. And for bookings and information, reach out to Scott Scott atrazor4life.com. Hey, Scott. I appreciate you coming on the show, man. It's I'm a big mark for you back in the day. And, with all the conversations we've had, I'm I just wish we'd have crossed paths and started talking a lot sooner. Well, heck, it's not too late for that now, man. You know? I will if you need if you need somebody to help shovel out dolls or something down there at the Broken Skull Ranch, I got a big old redneck kid who who can help you out, man. Well, I Thanks for having me, Steve. Thanks to Moe and everybody in the studio. It was a pleasure, Steve. And I gotta say, Saturday nights, I find myself sitting in front of my TV tune to see empty watching Redneck Island, man. Words I love to hear, man. I've been talking to Scott Hall. He's gonna come back on the show. And, Scott, thanks for coming. I'll I'll call you back in just a little bit. Thanks, Steve. Bye bye. Bye bye. Thank you for joining us for another classic episode of the Steve Austin show. Please leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends. For more Steve Austin show, go to podcastone.com. That's podcast o n e dotcom. Action fans, this is your summer. With Pluto TV's Summer of Cinema, stream 100 of your favorite movies all for free. 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