Transcript
This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is The James Altucher Show. Today on The James Altucher Show. Okay. Back for perhaps the last time. 2 of my favorite guests, maybe you've seen me on their podcast or you've seen them online or maybe you've seen their comedy, the History Hyenas. Chris Dostoffano and Janis Pappas have decided to end their podcast, and I have to say the episode with me in it was I had such a fun time. I encourage people to listen to that. Jay, maybe we should air that one also. Oh, yeah. For sure. Not only do they talk about, you know, why they decided to end, it's always difficult to end things that are at a high point because I felt they were going strong and they were at a high point. It's always difficult to end, in those times, but they made their decision for some good reasons. And we also discussed what's happening in the world that made them such a success. This really is about peak performance, like, in a world where everything has basically gone crazy and there's no gatekeepers anymore in any industry. Books, movies, podcasts, being an entrepreneur, there's fewer gatekeepers than ever. They give good advice for someone who wants to start off being a content creator, and it really applies to any industry. And of course, these guys are as funny as ever, so here's History Hyenas. Yeah. Let's do it. I just wanna mention a friend of mine makes interesting glass sculptures or whatever. So I got as a gift for some friends, he made a a he made the coronavirus molecule, like a glass version of it. And so sent everybody, you know, this coronavirus molecule, and then immediately, like, my kids all got coronavirus. So we suspect, maybe he had it on the on the gla*s. But Well, you know what? Him, Amazon, Zoom, those are people with businesses that do not want this pandemic to end. But one business that did end, and this is Giannis Pappas I'm talking to, one half of the History Hyena's been on several known as, like Prince. Formerly known as the History Hyenas. Formerly I'm wearing my History Hyena's T shirt. It's a collector's item now. It's like having a a GameStop T shirt. So let me ask you a question because you guys did such a great job. It's it was one of the few podcast I would listen to. Maybe I listened to 3 podcasts, 4 podcasts in total in my life. And History Hyenas, I was a regular listener too. It was hilarious. It covered history. It was educational. You guys had great rapport. So it's hard to it's hard to know when to end something. Like, I've ended podcasts before, and it's a big decision because you have an audience. What did it look like? What when when did you first start thinking you would end the the podcast? Well, we always knew that we were we were here for a a good time, not a long time. We always said we were a podcast on the run, and we're here for a good time, not a long time. So we thought it would be hilarious if after I did Rogan and our podcast jumped up as high as it could, we decided, you know what? Let's end it on its peak. Let's go out on a bang. Let's get the people talking, and and, boy, have they. They are not happy with us, but we went out we went out on top. We went out on top, and it's hilarious. It just I'm not happy. What am I gonna listen to? Well, you can go listen to reruns. You could listen to Hey Babe with Sal Vulcano and Chris. You can listen to Yanni Long Days. You can listen to Chrissy Chaos. We're still on the Internet. We haven't died. I mean, we're only here for another couple decades anyway. So, I mean, money money doesn't mean anything. You know that, James Altucher. How many times have you gone broke? I might be going broke right now. I don't know. Yeah, James. And you know what? I'm sorry I'm late, but you know what, James? f**k you. I'm not doing anything for you anymore. You don't even text me back. No. That was okay. I I was just explaining that. He was kidnapped by, Palestinians, and we finally were able to negotiate his release. Okay. So no. No. No. Here's what happened. Around mid November, I got I I this hasn't happened to me in, like, 14 years. I got totally burnt out. And I don't kidnapped? What what he means is he got kidnapped by Sean Donnelly for money because Sean Donnelly's out of work. So he knows if he kidnapped James l Puccher, his sons would pay the ransom, and here he is back, and Sean Donnelly's a rich man moving to Austin. No. My kids would never pay the rent, so that that's why that story is wrong. But but here's what happened. I I don't know. I I think maybe I got so much hate from the New York City is dead article and a couple other things happened. And I just literally, like, one day, I switched off, and I stopped going on the Internet completely. I don't even know where my phone is. I just stopped everything. And Good. To the great frustration of everybody I know, including my wife and kids, all I've been doing for three and a half months or maybe a little more now, I've been playing chess online for 15 hours a day, minimum 15 hours a day. That's all I've done. I don't know if it's so good. So I I I I went to therapists to figure out, like, is there something I could do to stop doing this? Like, I literally did nothing. I did no writing. I I didn't go on social media. I haven't read I have no idea what's in the news. I barely know who's president. I have not left my house, and all I do is play chess, which is why and Jay, audio engineer on here, has been getting me to get back into the podcasting so that we at least we have some podcast to release. But I did get better at chess, though. So that there's that. But I apologize. I haven't I literally have not even emailed anybody. Nobody. I haven't contacted anybody. So what do you what do you say to those people who think that you and Jerry Seinfeld fake this whole thing and your people are behind coronavirus? Well, we could we could be see, I'm a bad Jew, so we could for all I know, the Jews could be behind coronavirus, but I have no idea because they don't tell me anything. Believe me, they don't like Jews who go broke pretty regularly. We're we're kinda kicked out. I I I'm not allowed at Rosh Hashanah services. Like, there's no price I could pay that I could get me in. No. Are you broke again? You're not broke again. No. No. No. You're not broke again. No. No. No. No. Not at all. But it doesn't it doesn't help things when like, literally, I stopped everything. I stopped every activity I was doing. But but, a, I wanted to get back in it in touch and apologize. And I was even gonna call you guys beforehand, but because of my 15 hour a day chest addiction, I did not give myself the free moment to to call you guys to tell you before the podcast that I've just been burnt out. Well, I told Chris not to worry. I knew you were okay because I was still getting emails from my avails to do, to do shows on the 6th train. So I knew that your club was still up and running, and I was available. I haven't talked to Donnie Zolden in 4 months. Yeah. Well, your club has moved, inside of a train car. So this this is what happened when I came for a few months. And as long as you're still given the 500 as long as you were still giving us the 500 a month every month, we were like, everything's fine. Yeah. As long as long as that 500 came in and I did a couple of those sets, as long as I said somebody swiped me in and paid for my subway token, I was good. There you go. Did you do some of those sets? Were they good? I did. The spot pay was, was a swipe. That's so funny. Well Stand up New York is is keeping in the news. So so They are. So okay. What are you guys up to? What's happening? What's going on with History Hyenas? I was just asking Yanis why why did it end? It's hard to end things. Yeah. I think by the way, sorry I was late. I was doing a thing for Inked Magazine, which is a tattoo magazine. I have 2 tattoos. So I don't know. I mean, I got there and they thought I was some they saw them. There's a thing, a, Instagram account called, like, tattoos and s**t or something like that, and they thought that it's like a thing that an account that puts fake tattoos on people and then posted to Instagram. And they thought I had those tattoos. So I just wasted everybody's time for an hour, but you know? So sorry. So that that's the thing I was in, but I don't know what Giannis oh, I came in at the end when Giannis was saying, we just want to end on top. That's the 270 7th ranked podcast on Itunes, and that's exactly what we did. And is that true? I always think there's a good reason and a real reason. I feel like Giannis gave me a couple of good reasons, but it's very hard to get the real reason out of people. Like like, I have, you know, I have teenage daughters. Let me just cut you off real quick that I I because say what keep what you were gonna say, but I'll say, if you want the real reason, it will be available on patreon.com/bayridgeboys, which is still up for $1,000,000. Yes. Now I'm still considering the Tim Dillon episode, but I I Do it. That will also cost you $1,000,000. You should not be surprised by that. Timmy makes a month on Patreon. Yeah. So, I mean, do you feel like okay. Well, I you're I'm obviously not gonna get the real reason out of you guys. But do you think that's true? There's a good reason and a real reason? Like like, if if one of my teenage daughters says, oh, dad. I'm going to the library. I need to study. That's a good reason. But the real reason is there might be boys at the library. That's the real reason. And then you never get the real reason out of anybody. I think I I think, because I mean, what the the reasons are always, you know, they're always just a bunch of things that don't mean anything in a couple years. I think things end that are meant to end, and they were always inevitable. I'm not this person. I believe in fate. It's like certain things have energy that they're here for a short time. Certain things have energy that they're here for a long time. It's like, when you're with certain girls, if you don't get to a certain age where you know if you start and the sex is really good, that relationship's not gonna last. If you start with someone and it's a little boring and it builds a little bit, that's the one that comfortable misery is the one you settled down with. So it's like it's different vibes. Everyone knew the history of hyenas was a chaotic, you know, kind of show from the beginning. It had that frantic energy. Hyenas don't live forever. We're not turtles. We're not turtles. We're hyenas. We got eaten out on the Serengeti, and that's just what happened. I mean, hyenas go down. We live f**king bold. We live quick. We're by any means necessary. We cackle, and then we get our ears chewed off, and we get we get hazed and killed by stronger, more feminine, bigger pseudo penis hyenas who take over the clan. And a couple b***hes came in, and they turned us into a female podcast. There will be a history hyenas too that will be done by Sam Jay and Amy Schumer. Wait. So so do you feel like there were other podcasts you were competing with that, you know, were overwhelming to you? Or Yes. The English Cheetahs. The social studies Pumas. So what so now you're gonna do the long day podcast, which is just gonna be you. And Chrissy's gonna do Chrissy Chaos and Sal and Chrissy? Correct. And hey what yeah. It's called hey, babe with Sal. Yeah. With Sal and Chris. Hey, babe. And and And then I got my Chrissy Chaos. Yeah. And then Yanni's doing Yanni Longdays. And we both have Patreons now, solo Patreons, but we also still have for $5 a month patreon.com /bayridgeboys to binge our old stuff. We're screwed in Jews just like you. I always knew you guys were Jewish. Everybody says, nah. Nah. They're not Jewish, and I'm like, they're closet Jews. But, so so, also, you have the true TV show. What's that? That's called backyard bar wars, which is just me hosting a show with 2 friends that are building bars in their backyard. So I gotta go to LA for a couple of months and do it. And, yeah, dude. It's just f**king a lot of the fans are just, you know, calling me and cucking a sellout for True TV. And the beauty about social media is it doesn't exist when you don't look at the comments. You know? So it's just like you know, a lot of the fans a lot of the fans that are yelling at me about stuff, I took a look at their profile pics, and I'm like, oh, they haven't made good decisions either. Yeah. Tell me about it. I again, I'll I'll I'll bring this up, I promise, for the last time, but this New York City is dead article. I probably had a 1000000 people tweet s**t about me. And, yes, if you look at the profiles of all these people, they're a 100% losers. And Right. Except for Seinfeld, who I think is not a loser. By the way, I I really enjoyed his book. Is this anything? It was a great book about comedy. You know, Seinfeld, speaking of end the ending of history hyenas, Howard Stern once asked, Seinfeld, you were, he he said, you were offered a $100,000,000 to do a 10th season of Seinfeld because the public wanted to see a 10th season. Why didn't you do it? For a 100 mil you turned down a $100,000,000. And Seinfeld told them, Howard, the that's the reason. The public, by definition, is not in show business. So why would I wanna do what they want me to do? I'm the show business guy. They're not. So I wanna do the opposite of what the public wants me to do. You know? And he's already made the money. So and I thought that was a very inspiring thing. You have to keep to your artistic integrity. Yeah. He's spoken about that a few times. I really respect him for that. He, you know, he he pitched the show the way he wanted against what they wanted. He he got his friend Larry David in there. He he kind of he always he always said that. Like, you know, he anything he got hired for, he hated because it wasn't his. And so you gotta give Jerry credit, man. I mean, that show was not meant to succeed. It was a midseason replacement. Everyone thought it was gonna be a failure. That's why they gave him a midseason replacement. He hired Larry David, who was fired from SNL, was 40, living on his parents' couch, basically is the Georgia Costanza character. Not basically, is. And, did the show that he wanted about nothing. So when he pitched it, they were like, what are you talking about? And he, so they picked it up because they loved him, and it became the best show in the history of TV. And then, of course, Larry David, who was, you know, a fired writer from SNL, became this iconic comedian who had maybe the best cable comedy of all time. So I give Jerry credit for that, but I will say this. He's only done 2 specials, Jerry. So stop telling people to do their f**king time. It's not 1995. I'll do a 3 hour podcast, and that's what it is. It's not about being tight anymore. Grow up. You're a millionaire. You're disconnected. New York is over. I'm team f**king out Tucher. I will. And and and by the way, Andrew Schultz, who I remember the day after my show. The day after my article came out, I had an hour long discussion with Andrew Schultz. He refused to believe that New York City was dead, and he kept going over every possible argument. And now he just moved to Miami. So Yeah. He couldn't he couldn't accept it. He couldn't accept it because he didn't get a chance to, colonize it yet as he said. Yeah. So we'll we'll see. We'll see what happens to him. But, I don't think and and I wanna segue into comedy and and history of hyenas again, but I don't think Jerry Seinfeld show I don't think Seinfeld was about nothing. And I see that there's this thread through his career that's very interesting, which is he actually is very meta interested in comedy. So Seinfeld was about a was the first of a genre of shows about a comedian developing material. That's really what the show was about. And then his book, is this anything that just came out. It's a book about how he developed his routine since the seventies. So it's a the most fascinating book I've seen about comedy. And then he did that documentary in, like, 2002 about, you know, the process of coming back as a comedian. So his whole entire everything he was very successful at in his career was about the process of making comedy, which is interesting. And, I think that's what people loved. And then it it became a genre on TV with, like, Louie and the Jim Gaffigan show and some other shows. And, Chris, I saw you mentioned officially, on one of the one of the shows that oh, no. It was in your it was in your video about, Soul Joel's that Jerry Seinfeld called you, last April. Yes. He called me last April and said some nice things, and then he told me I could text him bits. And he wanted me to text him bits and get together for coffee. And then every text I sent him has been left on on red since last April. So I really just, you know, I don't know what else to say because I'm just like, hey. I've sent them bits. I've said let's get coffee, and the kid never wrote back. So but it was a good call, and I have I have proof that it happened. Jasmine filmed it. Well, it's not his fault. Jerry Jerry is too busy saving New York. Yeah. Jerry was Yeah. Figuring out all sorts of he was he was bringing out, all this, like, depression level insults, like putts and schmuck and things like that to to call me. He was he was working on his material about me. So No. He's been out there hitting the streets, canvassing, supporting small business. I I see Jerry out there. He's making sure single handedly that there's only 1 to 7 machete slashings a week. Or, yeah, or people throw it in front of subways, whatever. Yeah. Well and Giannis is thinking of moving moving out of the city. What are you thinking of doing? Chris, you're gonna have to go to LA. Yeah. I'm gonna have to go to LA for for 3 months, 2, 3 months, but I'm not I'm just gonna stay in New York. I'm just gonna stay, you know, in, I'll I'll I'll go do that, and then I'll just come back to Brooklyn. I I I, there was a part of me that was moving on gonna move to Long Island looking at houses and stuff. But now I think I'll just wait it out. I'll just wait a little bit, stay in Brooklyn, do this thing I gotta do in LA, and then, you know, see what happens. But I'm not I I love New York. I kinda and I think the price the house prices in New York are gonna have to drop. Right? Yeah. They're They're the expert, Jane. Yeah. They're they're they're already dropping. They're they're probably well, it's hard because some areas of Manhattan, you just can't little you can't sell. There's no buyers. And there's no renters right now, so it's hard to value a nice apartment. Like, students are and young people will are still moving in, but, I mean, there was, like, a half a 1000000 people have left Manhattan since in the past few months. And the what makes that so problematic, right, James, is that they're they're high income people. Right? That's what makes it so problematic. It's it's I mean, New York City is is losing on property taxes because so many people have left. They're losing on sales taxes because there's no tourists. They're losing losing on income taxes because people are leaving. And, you know, then they're gonna have to fire MTA work. You know, they're gonna have to fire police, teachers. There's garbage on all the streets because they've already been firing garbage collectors. And then and then and then fewer people will wanna move to the city because of it's like this death spiral down. You have less money, less services, less people, and then more or less money. And I was saying, Janice, earlier, one out of 4 people in New York haven't paid rent since March, which means all the mom and pop landlords are are going broke. So we have to just wait and see. Like, it'll eventually something good will happen, but it's they we don't really know yet the extent, to which things are bad at this point. It it's still a wait and see. What about Bitcoin? I just bought Bitcoin. Was that stupid? I don't think so because I think I mean, they there's there's something like something like $19,000,000,000,000 has appeared on the planet since last March. Like, there's a new there was previously a $150,000,000,000,000 of currency on planet Earth, and now there's, like, almost 20,000,000,000,000 more than that. So when there's so much money out there and so many dollars, there's a fear that there's gonna be inflation, that the dollar will be worthless. It's like if you if you if you're if you're everything if if if there's too much of something, too much of a good thing, then chances are the value of it goes down. So I think people are sort of breathing a sigh of relief that at the least at the very least, they could hide their their money in Bitcoin and protect against potential inflation because Bitcoin won't suffer from inflation. So I think don't I some people are betting the farm on Bitcoin. I would never do that. But if you think there's a 2% chance that Bitcoin at will take over the world, then put 2% of your money in Bitcoin, which is roughly like what I do. So, we'll Got it. We'll see. It's been doing well. But, what about Dogecoin? What about the other one, the other coin, Dogecoin, Dogecoin? Well, that's a scam. I mean, it's not a scam. That's a fake coin. Like, that guy so I know that guy. So in 2018, I was selling a Bitcoin related newsletter. I was explaining Bitcoin to people and making recommendations and so on. So a lot of people didn't like that I was doing this, and and so and it was one of these things where I was spending too much time on social media. So one Saturday night at, like, 3 in the morning, I said, if anyone has a problem with me, call me right now. And I put my number on Twitter, and he called, the Dodgecoin guy, the guy who started it. He called, and I explained to him. This is why no one understands Bitcoin, so I'm writing a newsletter about it. And I'm working at it, so I'm charging for it. And he's like, oh, okay. It's just your ads are a little bit spammy. And I said, yeah. Because if I just said what I just said to you, nobody would buy it. I have to say you have to say outrageous things to get people's attention. But he admits that it's just it's a fake coin. It's not a real coin, and he's making a he's making, like, $1,000,000,000 on it now. So crazy. Alright. But, so so what else has been going on? Like, how's how's history? You had you you've you've did Bernie Madoff. Well, how's Bernie Madoff wild? I haven't watched any podcast either. So I don't I haven't done any preparation for this podcast. How's Bernie Madoff wild? I think Bernie Madoff was, one of our funnest episodes. It was yeah. I think it was the last full episode we did before, we only we have 2 more interview episodes. 1 with, Ryan Long and then Carly Aquilino, and then we have our finale episode. Our finale episode was one of the funnest episodes we've ever done. We we read off some of the the rest of our wild Patreon names, and we really went out. I mean, people are gonna love our finale. It was old school hyenas fun, and, it it was just one of our best episodes is the finale. So tune in for that. Bernie Madoff was wild is, I mean, he he deserved to get not be put in prison for how good he was. I mean, he people don't appreciate how long he was able to get away with convincing people he was able to continue to make 1% while the market was crashing. I mean and he was able to convince some of the richest people in the world to give him their money, and and he he made them want him so bad that they competed. He created a whole illusion of exclusivity. I mean, hats off to his sociopathy. I mean, let's give this guy some f**king credit. He is the Michael Jordan of thieves, and we put him in a f**king cage. The disrespect for someone who has a skill level that I has really been the beginning of the of the down spiral that America is in because his whole country is a crime, and he should be elevated, not put in a cage. And, that's my point, James. Well, you could be right. You know, he says from prison, he can't understand why his investors aren't thanking him instead of trying to put him in prison. I mean, do sociopaths ever admit or see their flaws? Give the guy some f**king credit. He's loyal to himself. And at the end of the day, you're born alone, you die alone. He's a loyal guy. Did I ever tell you I I met him once, and I asked him for money because I was raising money for my own funds. And, of course, he was he was the biggest hedge fund in the world and was a was a respected famous hedge fund manager. And so I go up to meet him. I had a a a mutual friend. I go up to meet him. He gives me a tour of his all his offices, and then we sit in his in his office. He he he had a glass office in the center of the whole place. And he says, okay. So what can I do for you? And I said, I'm trying to raise some money. And he said, listen, James. I like you. You could come here and work here anytime you want. And you have a job, just ask. But I don't know where you invest your money. I don't know what you do with it. Like and the last thing we need here at Bernard Madoff Securities is to see our name on the front page of The Wall Street Journal. And so he so he did not he did not give me money, and I literally I walked out of his building. He was on in in the lipstick building on 52nd Street. And I walked out of his building, and I was so depressed about it. Like, I said, how can I ever compete compete with Bernie Madoff? He has got he's got 60 of $60,000,000,000 hedge fund. He's got great returns. I'm I so I literally started shutting down my business then on that rejection. And and people and people were calling me as I was leaving, and they were like, did you ask Bernie Madoff if we can invest in his fund? And I'm like, no. No. I didn't ask. I'm sorry. And then later, all those people denied asking me that even though like, why would I make that up? And then gonna be. I'm brilliant. And then a year or so ago, I called the jail that he's in, and I said, I wanna have Bernie Madoff. I I said, I know him. I wanna have Bernie Madoff on my podcast. And so they sent a message to him. This guy wants you on his podcast, and he said no. And I'm like, this guy's always rejecting me somehow, even from prison. Well, I love the fact that he was involved in the history's in American history's biggest heist, and he made you feel, like, insecure about your investments and what you were doing and who you were. I mean, he was the ultimate con artist. He was the ultimate, he was he was so good at putting making people feel insecure and making himself so coveted, and it was just all all distractions. He he created so many distractions. It's like that old expression, like, you always lose to the Yankees because you can't stop staring at the pinstripes. I mean, that's what he did. He did it to everybody, and it's just an amazing that confidence really throws people. And you go and and the and the amount of attention this is what we learned from doing the episode. He would he would call everyone on their birthdays. He would come to their funerals, their family's funerals. He was always available. He would go to their children's recitals. He he made himself the least suspected person to do this, and that's why he was able to get away with it for so long. Everyone knows about the financial things he did, but the actual psychology of it was the most fascinating part for me because sociopaths always pretend to be the opposite of what they are. They don't show up they don't show up and go, hey. I'm gonna steal you of your money, or else you wouldn't give them your money. So they pretend to be your best friend, the nicest people. They shower you with compliments and flattery, and that creates all these blind spots, and people fall for it every time. And, those people are showmen, and they and the world is their stage, and they're no different than magicians or mediums or comedians. We're all full of s**t, and he should be revered. Oh, you you know what? You know what, James? Too. 1 of my, one of my friends' uncles is the judge, Denny Chin, who gave Bernie Madoff, like, a 150 years in prison. And he said that it was even hard for him to get all that jail time because he just liked him. He was like, I just liked him sitting there. He was just like he seemed like a nice guy. I mean, Hitler Hitler was very well liked. I mean, he was very followed. Hitler was a vegetarian. He was a vegetarian. He he was a dog lover. At one point, he was a child. So the thing is these people give the world such entertainment. They give us things to talk about. We know they're ultimately going down because they're just they chase their own tail because they're like the joker. They don't know what to do with it. But while they're here, let's celebrate the journey. Yeah. I mean, those are the the if you you could argue, these are the most influential people in history. All the cut the the heads of every religion, people like Hitler, Madoff. And I say influential in that they changed the course of history. Yes. And, you know, for for for mostly for worse. But The funner. But we give this something to talk about. I mean, nobody talks about Clara Barton, how great and global she used to pull people off the battlefield, talking history Aina s**t. That b***h would single handedly go out there on her own and f**king pull injured soldiers with blown off legs off the battlefield and tend to them right there. She's founded the Red Cross. Nobody gives a s**t about that, b***h. You know? Because she was boring. But you know what, though? You just made me think. Like, when you first said Clara Barton, I had no idea who you were talking about. Right. And and I didn't even know we did an episode on her. We did. We did it. Well oh, see, I She's too f**king boring. What are we gonna talk about? Oh, she was a good person. She helped people. No. Let's talk about the biggest heist in American history. People wanna watch Goodfellas. They don't they don't wanna watch a f**king church documentary. Let's get real. But I I feel like there's gonna be a hole in the podcast universe now. Basically, there's, you know, there's hardcore history that Dan Carlin does, which is a brilliant history podcast, and there's some other history podcasts. But there's not gonna be a a funny, energetic What are you talking about, dude? Girls Gotta Eat are still up and running. I don't I don't know that one. I'll have to check that out. They all our fans who like History of Hainas will love that. It's the same f**king good time. Alright. I'll check that out. Now let me ask you this. You guys were so funny on the podcast. Made me think about what's the difference between stand up and just you guys were just insanely funny, like, just ripping on your podcast. And I know my guess is you made attempts or you or you are transforming some of the things you said on the podcast into your your material. But stand up material feel feels so different than kind of the energy and humor you guys were using on on the podcast. Like, when you do stand up, both both of you, do you do you just keep using the same material, or have you been able to kind of incorporate this other stuff, this new stuff into your stand up? I've been going back on the road. I've had some dates. I have some dates coming up. And I gotta be honest, it just feels like you just are doing the podcast still, but live. That's what it feels like. And, you know, like, that's just how I felt. Like, I was like, oh, they it's all podcast fans. So it's almost like, yeah, you have your material and stuff. Sure. But the a lot of them have heard it already. They've heard everything you've said because they listen to hours and hours of you a week. So I think, for me, at least, it's been like, you know, I'm doing, like, more long form telling stories and stuff on doing my stand up, but it's like some of the old bits that I have, I still do them. And I it's almost like, you know, like, when you sell tickets now, it's like the people are there for you. So it's it's almost like, easier. Not easier, but they laugh at a lot more s**t. They laugh at even your cadence. You know? Yeah. So, like, what's what's an example where you you're just telling a story from the podcast or a story from history on stage as opposed to just a canned piece of material that you've done a 1000 times before? Like, all this stuff that we would say about, like, you know, like, the Chinese virus and stuff like that. We we I just do that on stage. I just yell about, you know, the Chinese virus on stage now, and it's it's turned into a bit, but we first started talking about it on the podcast. And so do you go onto the stage with a plan, or do you figure you're gonna rip and see how where the which direction the audience is leaning? I always know where I'm gonna start and I'm gonna end. In the middle, it's whatever happens, happens. But I always I always at least have to well, how I'm gonna begin and how I'm gonna end is always I have a very good idea of what those 2 bits will be. You said something to me very interesting ones, which is that you go on the stage and you end forgot exactly how you said it, but you said your your first job is you're gonna try to charm the audience. You used the word charm, which was an interesting word. And then and then you'll kind of decide when to break into material and when to just keep playing with the audience and so on. Yeah. I I think for me, like, I always think about stand up. Like, of course, it's very, very, very important to be funny, of course. But you can't, you know, be a good stand up and not be funny. But I think likability is probably the most important thing in live performance because it's just like, you know, if you're unlikable, it's just like your jokes can be as funny, but they'll never get a hit. Like, people with likability get away with being less funny. You know? That's always how I that's what I thought I, Colin Quinn told me that in 2010. And and, Giannis, have you been you've been you've done some stand up as well lately. Have you been kind of taking material more from the podcast or your old material? Or what have you been doing? Yeah. Nothing from the podcast. I've only done stand up 6 times in the year, and, what I'm generally noticing is much like when cable TV came in and disrupted what people's idea of stand up comedy was from late night sets, which was their only frame of reference before cable television, I almost feel like the Internet is doing the same thing and podcasts are doing the same thing that cable TV did to the late night set when, you know, Def Comedy Jam came, Comedy Central. Now we've had this most recent incarnation, again, brought to you by technology, that has sort of broken another wall down and and gotten fans to know, like Chris said, their their favorite comedians, Cadence. They listen to them for an hour, 2 hours a week, 3 hours a week. They get to know everything about them. So they sort of be have become fans of the band or a person as a band, the way, you know, Kings of Leon fans used to follow them. It's not like, oh, let me go to a comedy club and see who's funny. That feels more disingenuous now, when previously previously it did it because there was no other frame of reference, nothing to compare it to. Now it feels more disingenuous because it's inorganic. They didn't find you on their own. You weren't recommended to them through a friend. There's not that thrill of discovery. There's not that intimate knowledge of the person's perspective and cadence and takes on things. So I think comedy was going through a change before the pandemic, and I think the pandemic has accelerated that change where fans have fallen even more in love and become more dependent on the comedians. We get messages all the time. Hey. I've done 3 tours of duty in Iraq. You guys got me through PTSD that was triggered from this pandemic. You guys got me through me losing my job and stuff like that. So it's a mixture between, like, morning radio, stand up comedy, sketch comedy, personal stuff. It's a new incarnation that you can't compare it to. It's not morning radio. It's not you know, it's this thing where they fall in love with you, your story, your humor, your take, and they wanna hear it. And they wanna hear it every week, and they follow you like a band. And everything else, although many people refuse to acknowledge it yet, is irrelevant. It's a thing of the past. It won't be written about in history because it's been done. And this new thing has come, and much like new things, people have a hard time adapting to new things, and most people don't. I mean, you know, evolutionary theory of Darwinism is not the strongest survive. It's the ones who adapt to change the best. And if you deny that change, you will die because it's not going backwards. Right. Because you look at, like, not only the fastest rising comedians right now, but the fastest rising podcast. I would say there's you guys, there's Tim Dillon, there's Not on Sutti Moore. Yeah. Not you individually. Yeah. You individually. The Tim Dillon, Andrew Schultz, and, you know, right from the beginning, I was on Ryan Long's train that I I thought he was gonna be brilliant. And his his boys cast or whatever he calls his podcast is is great. His sketches are great. His comedy's, super great. And, you guys are, like, the the the this generation's it seems like fastest rising comedians, podcasters, whatever. Well, I'll even explain to you. I I I experienced these moments where these two eras clash. It's like when we had Bill Burr on our podcast and I love Bill to death. He's one of my favorite comments. I like him to trashed you per he was merciless. And I'll explain to you why. Bill Bill comes from an era where much like that scene in Batman with the Joker, you had, you know, where the Joker breaks the stick and says we only have 2 spots, you guys fight it out. Bill comes from an era where there was gatekeepers and you had to really sharpen your wit to get a spot at the seller or Caroline's to get one of the few half hours that were handed out, one of the few weekend sets at a club, one of the few half hours Comedy Central was handing out. So these guys would sit at a table and really sharpen their wit and test each other much like soldiers when they're bored, you know, like old Spartans would wrestle and fight and play fight just like animals do because they live in a harsh terrain, so they gotta keep their chops sharp. That era is over. The comedians are not competing with each other anymore. Getting something means nothing. It's irrelevant. People don't care because they didn't discover you organically. They're not in love with you. So, now what is advantageous to the comedian is to get on another comedian's podcast. Share your fans. That's what the Internet kids do well. Tag each other in videos. There's enough room for everybody. There these are 2 diametrically opposed perspectives. And so what Bill was doing was typical of his generation. You gotta be tougher. You gotta f**king haze these people. You know, you gotta you you gotta be it was just like competition. So he was treating me like competition in a friendly way with a wink, but that error is over. That table is irrelevant. It's it's from a time where the business was different, where you had to impress an SD or, somebody. Nowadays, you look at the people who are the biggest or the most relevant. Let's be honest. Like you said, there are people who have an organic following that just keep growing by going on other these other podcasts, by having their show organically recommended through friend and friend. So it's 2 eras that are not the same. 1 is still hanging around because, of course, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, although you try. But you'll see that those comics will get a little bitter, a little hostile towards change as they always will because, you know, it's their their raison detros being pinned. Yeah. And it's interesting because you look at every this is happening in every single industry. There's no there's no reason, for instance, to even go on stage at a club. Maybe a 100 people see you, maybe 200, maybe 300. Who knows? But when you do a podcast, if it's a funny, good podcast, you're gonna have somewhere between 4,000,200,000 people or more, in Joe Rogan's case, much more. Listen, in some form other, whether it's through Itunes or on YouTube or whatever, people are gonna, so such a bigger so much bigger audience. It almost doesn't make sense to spend 8 hours a night doing, club comedy. Although, you know, that's a specific kind of, skill set too that's important, but, you know, after so much, I don't know if it's if it's relevant to do. I don't know. And and the other thing is doing Netflix specials. This is to your point of the gatekeepers. I don't know anybody who watches comedy specials on Netflix. Yeah. No. It's it's it's the last person who probably blew up from it was Ali Wong, Nate Bargatze. Everyone else is already famous. Yeah. Or, like or they fill some sort of diversity checkbox where, you know, which for them, that's what they have left. This sort of, you know, comedy is a making history. And you see that in all in all you see it in politics. You see it in, entertainment. You have to make history in some way. This is the first transgender to Fisher, assistant health, adviser to the president. This is the most diverse cabinet. His it's like everything's about making history. It's not really about being funny. That's that train has left the station. So the people I think are forced to go online to find to actually make themselves laugh because that stuff on TV feels canned because there's only so much you can say, and that's antithetical to what comedy is. I mean, the class clown was funny not because he said what the teacher wanted. It was funny because he said the wrong thing at the wrong time or the right time depending on how you how you wanna look at it or phrase it. So, you know, there's an agenda on television. You represent corporations and advertisers, and they don't want to have their dollar threatened by anything you say. So people there's a real void that's filled online where people who are going through through you know, normal people want to laugh as therapy, and they're not gonna find that, in abundance on television anymore. So, Chris, why why truTV? Because I'll I'm gonna I don't know the full ratings of truTV because those ratings are so low. They don't even publish the ratings. Your podcast probably got 10 times as many views as every show on truTV. Right. So the question really is, does TV still have that allure because it's television? Because it feels like a big deal to do a TV show. The reason why the only reason why I said yes to the truTV show is because it would be in LA. I you know, a lot of podcasters have left. So that you know, it's it's one of those things where it's like, f**k. But there's still a lot of big podcasts in LA. So I could go on a lot of the LA podcasts. It's really good money for, you know, first time shows. So it's like money's money. You know? It's and then I, you know, have the podcast with Sal. And if if, you know, with Impractical Jokers, nobody's more famous from TV than them. So I was told, you know, that True TV, like, will try to position it in a lead in with Impractical Jokers. And maybe that works, maybe that doesn't. But they also I also want to do it because the whole TV show is sponsored by Miller Lite. So, you know, my team, you know, my agent kinda felt like, hey. Might as well take a chance. You can potentially be like a spokesperson for a Miller Lite thing. And all the while, never giving up podcasting. I'll I'll do twice as much podcast and Internet stuff and never, like, changing anything. So I think that's one of the I think, like, you can do both. You can do it all. Like, you know, I'd rather have it where it's like, if you shut me down one place, I got you wherever you look, you'll see me kind of thing. You know? So that's why I did it. I understand when people say why they don't wanna do it, and I get it all. I understand it all. And, you know, as Janice mentioned, the Andrew Schultz, the Tim Dylans, I mean, they're doing they're extremely successful without television. You can't even deny it. But I'm not trading one for the other. I'm just doing both. Yeah. No. I like the idea of diversifying opportunity and diversifying old school, new school because even being an when someone says, oh, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm not necessarily impressed or anything because that's still just one job. It's not really safe, or it's not really a pathway to success. It's the path the real pathway, I think, is is diversifying your opportunities so you could handle more risk because one could fail as you say and and the others could succeed. And, you're giving yourself more chances for success, in fact, and it's just more interesting that way instead of just doing one thing. Yeah. Like, people were tweeting at me. Oh, truTV. You're gonna get canceled. I'm gonna try to cancel you. I'm like, good. Cancel the show. It'll make my Patreon go through the roof. I don't f**king care. Like, you know, like, well, I'm it's one of those things where it's like yeah. Yeah, I mean, you don't wanna go through stuff. Of course, nobody wants to feel bad about their work and s**t, but it's like, I look at the opportunities. Like, yeah, dude. I I know how how important podcasting and the Internet is. I'm not stopping. I put out content every other day and podcast episodes all the time and what Giannis and I did with hyenas. I would never trade one for the other. I just believe there's enough hours in the day to do both. And, you know He's right. It's great to diversify opportunities. It is great. And, yeah. I mean, as comedians, we just all we we have this thing now where it's, like, I don't know why it's not right that they come after us, but they do. I mean, they just come after us like we're like, we have any importance, and it's just a it's an unfortunate thing that, like, whatever whenever a comedian starts climbing up, they just these f**king people from the Internet, which is ironic because that's where you're a little more free, they come after you and try to dig something up. You know? I I don't even know if Kevin Hart could have a career now if he got caught saying what he said and had to get fired from the oscars. You know? They come after all of us. I mean, they've they've come after me. I'm just not big enough for any real care. And that's the only thing that really protects you is not being big enough to care. And then as you see with this country singer they just got, they got him drunk on the street. His career is over. He said, you know, he was saying n word. He's over. It's just like it's just done. They get you and then it's just it's a minefield out there of these trolls because I just don't think there's a lot of jobs and everyone wants to be relevant. So it's like, it's scary. There's all these piranhas out there. So you you said earlier, like, implying that in if you wanna have a successful podcast or and this is really true for a successful career in anything, You need to be able to say something new. You can't just copy everybody who's come before you. You need to have, like, a unique voice and a unique perspective, whether it's whether you're a salesperson, a marketing manager, a podcaster, a comedian, a writer. What would you say to someone who's young today and thinking of starting a podcast? Like, how could they start Move to China. Move to China and surrender. Yeah. Well, maybe that is maybe that can be developed into a podcast. Like, just imagine every episode as they try to surrender to a different person in China. So while they're and they're always applying to, like, Wuhan University to be a student there so they can learn how to do what the Wuhan people did. I I approach I approach Chinese people on the street like this now, and I just go like this. First I ask, are you Chinese? Because you gotta you know, I don't wanna walk up to a Korean or Japanese, and they're like, what are you doing? And I'm like so I that happened organically where I had to ask. So I go, are you Chinese? And then I just do this, and, a few of them have put cuffs on me. Well, see, they're they're they're already here. They're already ready for you. Yeah. It's over. So what would you say to someone who's brand new, starting a podcast, and doesn't have a clue? I would say the same thing when it comes to, TV show thing whatever your idea is, if you're having fun doing it, if it works, that's, that's a thing that'll happen probably once or twice depending on how talented you are, what how diverse your talent is. It will only happen like, look at look at Seinfeld. If it wasn't for his show, he'd be just he'd be Brian Regan or something. Still make tons of money on the road and corporate gigs, but he wouldn't be the icon he is. It happens once or twice or 3 times tops in your life. So whatever feels the best organically and people respond to the best, keep doing that because you're lucky to have it. But it's not just talent. Right? Both you guys have spent a lot of time and effort developing your skill. And in the podcast, you developed a skill, which is a combination of, you know, having a particular approach to history, you know, looking at history in an alternative way, and then making it funny and hilarious. Like, this was this was not just talent. There was a skills that you developed. How could someone go about thinking about those skills? What are Do it. Do it just like stand up. Just do it. No one's teaching the latest and greatest. No because no one because by definition, it's the frontier of podcasting or comedy or whatever. What did you guys do to develop skills? And I pre I I understand you said do it, but how did you know if you were good or bad? Like, how do you get feedback? How do you work on the parts where you're weakest? I think I I personally think, like, really, like, Gianna said, there really you only especially with any type of comedy, any form of comedy, you just have to throw yourself into the fire and fail a lot. And I think through failing, you see what works. Then if you're naturally funny, then you don't really have to try to be funny. That's that's the thing with comedy at least is I I think you either kinda have it or you don't. So, you know, people will bang their heads against the wall and why isn't this working? What there's a business part of it. Don't get me wrong. It's a huge business part of it. But it's like, you know, with podcasting or stand up, I kind of just feel like, hey, man. Like, you keep failing. Figure out what doesn't work. But if you're naturally funny, then you'll eventually figure out the things that really work for you and work for your show. And you keep going. And I think for a podcaster, somebody brand new, I would go after a niche audience. I would make your thing as specific as possible to not get caught in the web of people just talking about nothing. Be very, very, very, very niche. Like, even if people like there's no audience for a podcast just talking about guitar strings or whatever. It's like, do that podcast because you'll find the 5,000 people in the world that love that s**t and love talking about that stuff. And if you can get them to give you $10 a month for extra bonus content on Patreon, you you'll be a you'll make yourself a millionaire. So what's your what you're doing 3 new podcasts between the 2 of you. What what's your new podcast about? My I have one podcast. You could find me Long Days with Yanny. It's, it it's it's, you know, me me, examining sort of the trending stuff, going on my rants, giving you my perspective. I got patreon.com/yanninglongdays, where I give a bonus episode a week. Also, all my characters, all all that stuff's going behind to pay pay off. You're an old school Marissa fan, mister Panos fan. Any of my new characters, Derek, Luke St. Simon, and, Sean Terry. All those videos I'm gonna be shooting. I'm doing them all behind a paywall, at Patreon. And, that's what it is, a mixture of characters, stream of consciousness, and just, it's cool because, I'm I'm working with my old buddy, Jesse Scattoro, who I had initially started a production company. We were about 10 years too early, more than that, actually. And we had a studio and everything. And so he does a lot of changing of the green screen and tells the story as I talk. Whatever topics come up, the green screen kinda changes, and, he handles all that. So it's just a fun it's a fun podcast, and I hope people check it out. And, Chris, what's your what's your two ones about? So mine so one, I have hey, babe with Sal Vulcano, which, comes out every Thursday 11 AM, EST. And that's just me and Sal just being silly and telling stories and and being fun. And, just, you know, it's just really Sal's and I, I guess, our friendship on display. It's kinda just, like, really, like, an hour of, like, just forget about whatever's going on your life kinda s**t. Like, forget about, you know, the pandemic. We'll never talk about any anything in the news. Like, it's just literally storytelling with with Sal and I. And then Chrissy Chaos, which just started, it's gonna come out every Tuesday at 11 AM, is actually it's me talking with homeless pimp who would used to be the producer of His Raenas is doing with me and he's off camera and him and I just kind of talking. I kinda quote I I talk to him when when I can, or or, like, you know, when when we find, it interesting. Well, like, he'll he'll get on mic. But mainly, it's it's a couple it's segments. I'm doing 1. The first segment in my podcast is called Anxiety Tuesday where I just talk about mental health and what things I'm doing in mental health and what I think, you know, for the week, like a mental health tip and break it down, all comedy. Then the second segment is about history. It's called Chris to read the Stefano where I tell you something about history that I've learned or, you know, 15 minute little mini segment of what I like about history. And then the third segment is the 48 laws of power where for the next 48 episodes, I'll just talk about a chapter from the book, the 48 laws of power. And then and then at the end, I just f**king, you know, have some kind of stupid sign off. You should, you should by the way, not only an excellent book, the 48 laws of power, and so much history in it. Like, every page is, like I know. An entire semester of history. But Robert Green's an excellent podcast guest. You should get Robert Green on your, podcast. I was thinking if it's successful after, like, 10th episode, maybe, or 15th episode, if if it if it all works, I'd I'd ask. I'd have him on. I'm gonna call I would text you to have him on, but you'll f**king text me back. No. No. I'm I'm back. I'm out of my burnout, I think. I'm crossing my fingers. Jay doesn't believe me, but, and my wife doesn't believe me. But So what happened? Did you have, like, a real you had, like, a real breakdown? What happened? No. I just I just stopped doing anything. I literally would wake up and go to my office in the morning, and I would say to myself, okay. I'm gonna write something today because I haven't written anything since November. And then I'd say, oh, I'm gonna play a game online of chess first, and this would be, like, at 7 in the morning. The next thing I know would be 10 PM at night, and I'm still playing online chess. And that's happened every single day. Is that the good reason or the real reason? That is that is the real that is the real thing I'm doing. I I actually don't know the reason why I'm doing it. I think it just started, and I just haven't been able to to stop. But James, you got divorced, and we know you got divorced. No. No. But but I I I'm sure she's probably considering it because she'll say, hey. Can we go out to dinner tonight? And I'll say, sure. I'll be ready in, like, 5 minutes. And then 4 hours later, I'm still playing chess online. And I play these, like, just 1 minute games where it's just me and the other person around the world. There's, we're play we have 1 minute each, and then we and then we lose. But, we'll see. I've been trying to I've been trying to limit myself lately and get back into doing this. So so we'll see what happens. Wait. Listen. I I love everybody on here. I gotta go. Thank you, guys. Thanks for having me. I'm sorry I was late. No problem. And and for everybody listening, check out Chris and Yanni's new podcast, Yanni Long Days, Chrissy Chaos, and hey, babe, with Chris and Sal. So That's it. They're gonna be great. I'm looking forward to them. Good luck, you guys. Alright. Thanks, James. Talk to you later. Thanks, James.
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