Transcript
This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is the James Altucher show on the choose yourself network. Fresh books, fresh books, fresh books. Thanks once again for sponsoring the show. If you're a small business owner struggling to get a handle on your taxes, never fear. FreshBooks is here to help. FreshBooks is a ridiculously simple cloud accounting software that will help you cruise through tax season. And believe me, I need it. And their mobile app allows you to take pictures of your receipts and organizes them for later, which makes claiming expenses a total breeze. To get started with a 30 day free trial, go to freshbooks.com forward slash james and enter the code James in the how did you hear about us section. Love ZipRecruiter. I'm so glad they're a sponsor. Oh, should I start the ad? Okay, this is part, Actually, I'll make that part of the ad. Today's show is also brought to you by ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter can help you find the right hire. With ZipRecruiter, you can post your job to a 100 plus job sites with just one click. Find out today why ZipRecruiter has been used by businesses of all sizes to find the most qualified job candidates with immediate results. And right now, my listeners can post jobs on ZipRecruiter for free. That's right. For free. Just go to ziprecruiter.com/james. That's ziprecruiter.com/james. One more time to try it for free, go to ziprecruiter.com/james. Today on the James Altucher Show. When when I used to headline as a comedian, I'd feel sorry for the people lining up waiting to see me, like I was there weekend. So I wanna enter a world where I feel like I'm just starting now. I'm so excited. It's about reinvention also in the sense that, you know, you started writing these books in your fifties. You're 59 right now. You've had 4 different careers. I am super happy to have Fred Staller on the podcast. I'm gonna tell I'm gonna say this, Fred, before I let you speak. You're like television history. You've been on something like 60 different TV shows. You wrote an episode of one of the best TV shows of all time, Seinfeld, and it was one of my favorite episodes of Seinfeld. You've been on, oh my gosh, Friends, Suddenly Susan, Mad About You, Wizards of Waverly Place, Doctor Katz, The Suite Life of Zack and Cody, The Penguins of Madagascar. You've been on so many shows. And then you've written 3 books about your television experiences, my Seinfeld year, Maybe We'll Have You Back, the life of a perennial, TV guest star, and 5 Minutes to Kill, which just came out. It's an excellent book about your experiences in the 1989 HBO Young Comedian special, and you follow the careers of the other people in the special. We'll talk about that in a second. But given what I just said, how would you introduce yourself? I'd introduce myself as all that, but so self deprecating where when people say, oh, you've been on everything, I go, well, not recently. So so that that I always play the schmucky guy, the nebbish, and, when I audition, they go, not so pathetic, that I'm being myself. So basically, yeah. Those I used to do stand up, and and I had to it's it's funny being here in New York because some people seek me out. I don't wanna see some I wanna see a friend gave me a letter from when I first moved to LA in 1988 where I'm saying, I wanna do The Road. So I did the comedy boom in the eighties where you could effortlessly make a living. I never was in love with it. I think I'm over explaining myself. Just No. It's okay. Just, so I'm really I did those guest spots and voice overs. A lot of it died down, but I'm really happy to trying to write, express myself in my voice. Because for a while, I being having no self esteem, I I want to be a writer, but I try things out. Oh, that's been done, or that's not what they're looking for. Oh, romcoms. So finally, as I got so old where I'm too old to be the guy pitching TV shows or movies, I just wrote what, you know, I'd like to read, which would be you know, you do a lot of great books, advice advice and stuff. Best advice for writers is read write or read what you'd like to read or watch. So I I stopped trying to fit into puzzles. So long winded, yeah. I'm this is I I I this feels most creative, writing. But not writing for, like, a sitcom or or trying to pitch movies. Just writing about this weird guy that I am that got lost finding this place. It it's funny because I I wanna get into your whole TV stuff and even the stand up stuff because you address it particularly in the last book, 5 Minutes to Kill. You you address that bridge between stand up and careers in television and movies and so on. But it feels like so your first two books, my Seinfeld year, which describes your year writing on a season of Seinfeld, and then, you know, maybe we'll have you back, which is the the 5 words you always wanna hear when you're a guest star in a show. Those are very much, like, about you and your experiences in TV. I feel there's a a very almost literary bent to 5 minutes to kill that's different than the first two because it's more, it's still about you, but it takes this almost literary idea of let's take this seminal event, which is the 1989, young comedian special on HBO, and let's follow what happened to the other people. It has a little little more literary feel to it, even though you also were on that event. Oh, thank you. You know, I I, the the only frustrating thing about 5 Minutes to Kill is people will just think it's it's not silly, but fun behind the scenes stuff when it's, a little deeper that, excuse me, felt good to get out of my head and, yes, follow the lives. See, I love all showbiz stories or all writer stories. I like reading about, not Steinbeck, f Scott Fitzgerald more than The Great Gatsby. I like, you know, yeah, just people struggling in showbiz, all that stuff. So so what I always liked about the special I was on was the 6 people on it, the diverse trajectory of careers and lives all were fairly compelling and different. You know? Right. Because it was it was, first off, it was, a young Dennis Miller as the emcee. Yes. It was you were on the show, and and you have 5 the book's called 5 minutes ago. Gee, 5 minutes. To make your mark on this. See, a lot of young people, like, I don't know how old you are, and I'm sure your daughter and the engineers don't remember how big a deal these young comedian specials were. They launched Sam Kinison, Dice Clay, Seinfeld. This was before Netflix, before Comedy Central that, and Jerry Seinfeld had said, an appearance on a young comedian special is equivalent of 10 tonight show appearances. And all the young people I'm talking to, The Tonight Show, could make a career, because you didn't have all these cable and A and E shows with stand ups. So, so, yes. So these these were a big deal being on this, special. Yeah. And it was it was, you, David Spade. Oh, yeah. So Rob Schneider and David Spade. It was it was funny. I was listening to, Mark Maron, WTF, and he he was list he was interviewing Rob Schneider. What was your big break? He said, the HBO Young Comedian special. Well, What the hell? I was on it. Why was it my big break? What did I do wrong? I'm a loser. I had my chance. So it was those Rob Stein and David Spade got cast on SNL because of being on this. A guy you never heard of, Warren Thomas, who Chris Rock referred to as the funniest guy you never heard of, a genius, great guy, Drake Sather, and Jen Karim, who you never heard of, who, there was a great tweet from, bad Jason Zill something from the New York Times. He wrote a book on Letterman recently, and he's the New York Times cop he referred to this a book on Letterman, by the way? Yeah. Yeah. It is. And he said that this, this is great writing about great stories about comics you never heard of. And when I interviewed Rob Schneider for this, he goes, you know, the interesting stories are the ones you never heard of. So being, you know, you never heard of these people, it's just why they didn't make it, why people that were supposed to be the 6 best young comedians of 1989, what happened and everything. So, yes, thank you for for getting that that that a lot of people don't get that. One person, my friend, said it's almost like the big chill. Like, 6 young people and then what happens to them. You know? Well, it's interesting because, you know you know, Rob Schneider says he got his big break there. I remember Rob Schneider as more of the copy guy in Well, he got but he got cast on SNL, and they became aware of him from this. Yeah. And I guess with David Spade, I remember him more from just shoot me, which I well, you know, ultimately led from this conversation. Was Saturday Night Live, which is not from this. Yes. Yeah. But what happened with just shoot me is, well, no. They were he left SNL because he was, repped by Brilston Gray, who, Brad Gray plays a prominent, part in my, the book, and he just died, like, 2 days ago. Yeah. And so they were producing, Rilston Gray, a, a sitcom for Laura San Giannomie. Is that how you say it? Yeah. Sam Giacomolli. Yeah. So, so he was with such big management, they put, Spade on the show, but then he stole the show. She was supposed to be the star of it, the anchor of it, but he became the breakout star of Just Shoot Me. So so it's interesting to me because if someone had told you when you were a kid, oh, you're gonna be on the 60 best TV shows of all time. You're gonna write one of the best episodes for one of the best TV shows of all time, and then you're gonna write 3 great books about television. You would have said, oh, I'll take it. Sign me up. Well, yes and no. You know? Well well, it's a lot of these memoirs are are coming to terms with, you know, like, my mother is not very accepting, and, well, she just puts me down. How come you'd have been a regular? So maybe we'll have you back as as if you remember being an insider outsider guy. I'm on these shows, but it's frustrating because you're hearing them talk at the craft service table about their second houses, what they're gonna wear to the Emmy's, and they're coming back the next week. And I'm I describe it as I'm like a foster kid from TV shows hoping one keeps me on. So, yes, I you know, as I got older, I learned to say yes. That that's something because I I forget. Because Hollywood, as you remember from the opening of, 5 Minutes to Kill, what it's like living there. I don't know if you go there often, but it's all these billboards in your face of these idiots you started with smiling. Hey, you loser. I'm on a TV show. I'm working. So you lose perspective that I grew up in Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn, and 2 of the guys are dead. 1 still lives with his mother on Brown Street in, Brooklyn. So, yes, you lose perspective how awesome it is. Just well, when I was on Seinfeld, I remember, I wrote on Seinfeld and it didn't work out. They didn't bring me back. And then they called me to get down here quick, for a table read. I remember I didn't know what I was gonna be, but driving there, I said, I don't care if it's one line to be in Seinfeld in any way. And, you know, the magnitude. So the scene I was in the first scene was in Monk's Diner. And just to be I'm sure people who were extras were just to be in Monk's Diner was amazing. So now I don't take it for granted. But, yes, it still was a struggle because here you are on these shows. You're recognized. People think you're rich. I remember these guys in the Grove would say, he must live up there, pointing to the Hollywood Hills, and I wanna correct them, point their arm to where I really live. So people think you're rich or you're famous or people would stop me. Hey. Do you need a writer's assistant? What? I I need someone to help clean my little apartment. So, yeah, it's just it used to I learned to really enjoy being ex, you know, because I used to like people, you're so funny. I go, then how come I've never been a regular? What am I doing wrong? So, yes, a lot of these books are about coming to terms, what does make it mean, self acceptance. Because like I said, you're in a warped city where it's in your face. Like, one one comic I forgot said, it takes 5 minutes to read the, Hollywood Reporter and a whole day to get over it. Because, you know, you know, you're going, damn. Look at this. But, again, it's all about a perspective. Yeah. Exactly. No matter where you are, you're always kinda comparing yourself to the next person. Like, I literally know billionaires who compare themselves to people with $10,000,000,000, and they're they get upset. Exactly. So you got I gotta you know? Yeah. So I used to, yeah, say why am I not a regular if I'm so funny? I've never been a a regular on a sitcom or this or that. But, yes, I learned, I don't know how old your daughter is. How old is she? 18. And to me, one of the biggest joys I have I don't know if you watch Drake or Josh or any of those shows. Yeah. She does. I only was on one Drake or Josh, but when I get We were trying to find we we were foam finger guy with the eye patch, bobblehead. I was on Wizards of Waverly Place. Did you see that? So just to be part of someone's childhood is you know, I'll have a a depressing day or whatever. And then I just some kid would recognize me and because I know growing up, I loved the Bob Newhart show, and I got to work with mister Carlin, one of the guys from it, or being friends sort of with George Segal, who I'd see in these seventies TV shows. So, yes. So you again, you you gotta get the perspective back. And that's why it's good to be here. New York is insane, but to get out of Los Angeles. Well, now, there's a lot of different directions I wanna go with this. One thing is is you are incredibly funny. Like, so I watched the 1989, you know, HBO special when I read the book just to see your, you know, 5 minutes, 6 minutes. And it's hilarious. Like, I if I saw that right now, it would be hilarious. Like, that humor sticks. Like, you you say, you know, I'll I'll, first off, I love how you start, which I plan on stealing actually if I do talk or something. If Have you ever talked? No. Like like if I if I give, like, a public speaking. Yeah. Yeah. Like how you say, you know, where are you from? And then, okay, over here. And then, know, you kinda just go I never knew how to open. So all these comics work the crowd. Oh, I'm psyched. Let me at you. Yeah. What I never had it was so hard because the hard thing about opening as a stand up is you gotta get them, but you can't do your best joke, which would be ideal because they're trying to figure out who you are. So that's why a lot of comics open with a joke like Rob Schneider. I know. I'm short. We breathe down or whatever. So, yeah, so I would just sort of work the crowd, but not really. Yeah. That was funny. And then you have the the joke where, you know, I don't always I'm gonna misdo it, but I I I don't always I'm not always so close with my mom, so I wrote her this letter, you know, dear missus Staller. Right. You know? So just all of these things are so self deprecating and and funny in this twisted way. Or then you have you write about how in some of your stand up, you have these kind of, non sequitur jokes that are really funny when you think about it. Like, I'm so poor. I can only buy cars that are blue. Something. We could only buy the blue car. No. Those were non jokes. Jokes that sounded like their jokes were just missed. But those are funny. Those those are the jokes. Clubs. I did them at the comic strip. That guy goes this guy goes, that joke sucks. Like, I didn't get I was just saying that it sucks is what makes it funny. Right. Right. Now well, the problem was, that set you saw, I hear my accent, saw, Brooklyn, That they you're so I I I did the comedy boom of the eighties where you could just make a living doing 15 minutes here and there, then you go on the road to do 45 to an hour, and and you and I you had to adapt, which I didn't know how, and go, hey. Here I am in Austin or, you know, San Antonio. You couldn't just you had to cater to them to show you're on their territory and follow some middle act that was doing flips and rapping and spitting at the audience and cursing them out. So my low key depressive, non sequit or weird jokes, it kinda had to get watered down when I went on the road because you couldn't just be this whatever. Yeah. But I've I you know? So so let's get in again, there's many directions I wanna take this, but first, let's get into why you didn't really break out with, let's say, your own show because I feel like there obviously could have been a character or a show based on but you were on Everybody Loves Raymond. You were on 6 episodes. You kinda played a consistent character, his cousin Gerard. And I feel like in that show, they call you out for the problem you have, which is that you always sound depressed in every single show you have. And whiny, and and they Raven tries to get you to say now Yes. Not depressed. Right. Right. Yeah. Now. Yeah. I say it like he does. Yes. I mean, are you gonna say why was it I ended more? Or, Or or just why maybe Well, that's the one with James. Sorry to interrupt, but that's the frustration even though, like you said, it's amazing that I was on the shows, but when people would say, you're so funny, how come you never made it? Or, you know, or they think I'm a millionaire, or, yeah, why don't you have your own show? That's when I beat myself up. You are. What am I doing wrong? So in in a sick way, it got frustrating because, like, yeah, like, people are complimentary. I would speculate that, like like, during the nineties or whatever, a lot of comedians were getting their own shows. I'm not an anchor. You know? I'm the weird guy that pops up. But why I think you could have been an anchor, though. Why why do I think I think you probably were too I think you absorbed this self deprecating persona, which probably is maybe your real persona, but you absorbed it too much so you wouldn't push shows. Yeah. That's what I was saying. Yeah. No. I I I was in the wrong era. I'm older than you, but I grew up with shows like Barney Miller, but they had these weird ensembles of, you know, of Bob Newhart, like a weird patient that comes in. You know, actually, I never had the confidence to dream big. I I never thought I could be a, you know, a star. I I identified with, the weirdos that had three lines. Oh, I could be that guy. And, yeah, there was a guy in Dark Day Afternoon who chickens out. And I go, I could be that guy. I remember I was seeing a shrink in New York. I said, yeah. That's my dream. He goes, you should dream a little bit higher. You know, and I go, yeah. Maybe he's right. Because I when when I used to headline as a comedian not good self esteem, I'd feel sorry for the people lining up waiting to see me. Like, I was there weekend, you know, and they're spending their weekend money on me. I guess I never yes. But but why didn't why didn't you feel that way, though, like, if if everybody says you're to my mother and my, all that stuff. But if everybody says you're funny all the time, why wouldn't people blind up to see you? Because it wasn't I I never I'm not like an entertainer, you know, for a headliner. I I I think I was good in New York in those 15 minutes spots at the comedy clubs or not as a headliner. The headliner had to be entertaining, high energy, do do an hour. You know what I'm saying? And when I headlined, no, they were disappointed. They would switch the middle act with me. You had a guitar and you know what I mean? Make them clap along and curse, you know, and work the crowd. That's why when I did that opening, you're like, hey. I'm working the crowd. I I was mocking those comedians that, hey. Look at this schmuck. Who takes the pictures? A threesome. Hey. You know? And they would blow the room away, and that's what those crowds wanted. You know? Yeah. Not the nonsophisticated crowds. But, you know, take, like I was in high energy. They liked high energy. Take take, like, Barney Miller, though. So Fish was kind of the low energy Right. Guy, but he ended up having his own show. Well, yeah. I because he was he was on Barney Miller. But, you know You were on Seinfeld? Yeah. Just one. He was a regular. Yeah. I don't know. We we I could say what why it didn't work out that way. I would have liked it. Yeah. But I I think it was a different era in that you wouldn't have a show like, Mary Tyler Moore, a bunch of middle aged, not good looking people. They're like Slick, like How I Met Your Mother, or, you know, Friends. Friends kinda maybe Friends changed it where they're really good looking, young, fashionable people in, prime time. Like I said, How I Met Your Mother or the people on, what's that other one on, it's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. You're kinda slick. And so, yeah, I think I'm from the era of the the more nebbish. Now they have all these UCB people that are kinda brooding, and they're deadpan, but they're kinda like the nerdist. They're too hip. You know what I mean? They're like on The Office. They're they're low key, but it's like deliberately, like, cool, like, yeah. Or the slobs on purpose. So I think I should write an article, difference between a knabish and a nerd. Nerds are cool now, but they're more like pop culture references. They're snarky, they're like a guy, you know guy Brian Posehn? He's like a tall he's not good looking, but he but he acts like, yeah, I'm into Metallica. They just riff on pop culture and He was on the, the Sarah Silverman show. Right? Yes. Yes. So obviously, he's not a good looking guy. Sorry, Brian. He says a 2. But but he but a nerd is more like a guy into, yeah, I have my collections of this. I you know, one thing bothered me a little bit. Him and Patton Oswald were on some, some documentary, the comedians of comedy. And Patton Oswald's gone, yeah, I'm into comic books. I'm different. You know, if you don't, people don't get it. No. You're not different. That's so mainstream. That's not, you know, alternative. I hear when people go, I'm going to Comic Con. I guess I'm a nerd. No. You're meaning I'm cool. I'm into robots and anime. So so I I I got resentful that the nerd Chris Hardwick, the nerds, hijacked the word nerd, and it's cool. You know, it's funny. Just as a a a little trivia fact that I just heard yesterday, the San Diego Comic Con just started selling their tickets, I guess, a few days ago. Oh, it sold out probably to the symposium. A 146,000 tickets sold in 45 minutes. So there's a 146,000, like, instant nerds. So that's why yeah. But nerd means cool now. So so I think I'm from the era of that kinda more sad sack ish yeah. Which you don't see, I mean, to tell you the truth though, of all the things I've done, these things expressing myself in my own voice has been, you know, being creative and and expressing myself. I was always trying to I'm always trying to fit into other people's puzzles my whole career. Well, in in 5 Minutes to Kill, you kinda present many so so 5 Minutes to Kill, your latest book, I highly recommend it. It's really a dollar 99, these Kindle singles. Right. Not even $2 as you pointed out on Twitter. Yes. So there is a difference between the guys who broke out, which is, like, David Spade and Rob Schneider, and then you're sort of in the middle there, Fred you know, Fred Staller. And then, you have, you know, Jan Karim, Warren Thomas, and I can't pronounce Drake Sather. Yeah. So so what is the difference between the first group of talking to Brooke? Again, it's hard because, you know, talking to me right now, we can't figure out why blah blah blah. I didn't become the guy, the regular guy, or the sad sack on the shows. But talking to a lot of these people, interviewing all the people for this, a lot of them a lot of people, let's say, came from San Francisco where they're rock stars in the comedy boom, and it's creativity. And this is stuff you should explore because you write about, you know, packaging and, you know, and business. And there's a way to, you come to Los Angeles, to Hollywood, and you gotta figure out how to take what's unique about you and sell it. Because when you're the kings of your local town or San Francisco with, like I said, they're rock stars, it's about being creative and riffing and this and that. Like Warren Thomas, who Chris Rock referred to as, you know, as I said, the funniest guy you never heard of, he was what they called riffers. In San Francisco, Rob the late Robin Williams, only Warren Thomas, this guy Steven Pearl, and Greg Proust, who you probably heard of, they could keep up riffing. It's just going and references. You know? Like whose line is it anyway? Sort of. But just almost like battle rapping, but just keep it going off stage. And so Warren Thomas had a very loose almost like a jazz player. And he almost thought it was lame to have a structured set, which hurt him. Even on the young comedian special, as I wrote, it was he was, like, trying to come up with stream of consciousness and David Spade, what what are you doing? You know? Because I like to just find my way as I go. So Warren, I don't think, was structured that way. He now Robin Williams, made it almost like a magician, made it look like he was just coming up with stuff, but he had tricks. He would do a lot of the same, quote, unquote, spontaneous stuff at the always same time. So he he created the illusion of the spontaneity. So I think it's it was a lot of them with structure. Jen Karim, she was a precursor because she was beautiful. She still is very, very attractive, very beautiful. But she was before this influx of comedians that were attractive. There were very attractive comedians before. Amy Schumer, Sarah Silverman, Whitney Cummings. Is that her name? Yeah. Yeah. But they were more kind of the eighties aggressive or kinda punch, punch, punch. Comedians Elaine Busler, Carol Leifer, you know, people like that. Paula Poundstone. But then women start talking really graphically, sexually, and they own their hotness. Now Jan was the first really beautiful comedian that was just sexy and was but I think she didn't own her hotness. Like, Sarah and Amy, they talk very graphically. And but but Jen again, I don't know. It's timing. It's luck. If you people listening read the book, Jen had some timing issues. She could've she looked too much like Elaine. She knew Seinfeld. She dated. She could have been Elaine, but then they were concerned. You're too beautiful that people are gonna be mad at Jerry. You broke up with him. So just these rant so so in my book I explore what does makeup make it really mean? Because like you said, people compare themselves. David Spade, Rob Schneider. Go why aren't I Adam Sandler? Why aren't I whatever? So it's yeah. So it's, these different paths and different things happen. You know, a lot of it, it seems, has to do with persistence. Like, Jeffrey Tambor writes in his memoir that just came out that Brian Grazer, the producer, once told him, this is what a Hollywood career looks like. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. And Yes. You know, that's basically it's almost like you have to persist through all those no's to get and that's true for any career, but it seems particularly true when you're when you're selling yourself as the product. Right. I think with the 1989 young comedian special, though, that was on the cusp of when comedy was getting fashionable and cool. And I gotta give David Spade credit. He was a precursor to the snarky kind of, you like on those shows best week ever or those I love the nineties, those talking heads. Yeah. Yeah. You're you're really cool. You know what I mean? The wise asses. So I think youth helped, David Spade and Rob Schneider because they were kinda bad boys. Like, Schneider had the leather jacket and or whatever. He was fashionable. He was half Fonzie, half Elvis. You know what I mean? So they had an attitude. So I agree with persistence, but it helped that they kinda got their thing, you know what I mean, with that coolness. They had a persona that somehow fit? Well, because when I went into stand up comedy, I never went into a go, I wanna be cool. This is cool. I was just, you know, I was pathologically shy and depressed. That's why my mother freaked out that I quit college to be a comedian because what? You're so depressed. How you make people laugh. Don't quit. What are you doing? But, again, I wanted to be a character actor, but I didn't know how you did it. So I so then I heard, gee, I see people like Jimmy Walker. And someone said, oh, he did his set at the improv, and then you're going to tonight show, then you're on a sitcom. I said, oh, even though I'm really shy, I only have to do it two times. I'll I'll do the improv, get discovered, go to the tonight show. I fantasized going to the tonight show, going, oh, this is only my second time doing stand up. So I said I only have to do it once, and and, obviously, I didn't get the tonight show. But I'd have my head down. I couldn't look at the audience, and that became my persona because I was so pathologically shy. So then, around the young comedian special after then there was things like the half hour comedy hour on MTV. So comedy started becoming cool. You never had really you had people like David Brenner from my area, and never good looking people. Robert Klein, not not unattractive, but not so long winded thing what I'm saying is I think it became a lot about, it helped that persistence with Jeffrey Tambor. He's like a bold character actor, so it worked with him, but I think the timing for Rob Schneider and David Spade that they were and, you know, Saturday Night Live, the kinda, you know, cool bad boys. Let's stop to take a quick break. We'll be right back. FreshBooks. Thanks once again, FreshBooks, sponsoring this podcast. Here you go. If you're a small business owner who struggles with tax stuff, you don't have to stress anymore because freaking out and burying your hand in the sand will, trust me, will not solve your problems come tax time. FreshBooks is the ridiculously easy to use cloud accounting software that's made for people who can't stand doing their taxes. 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Thankfully, with ZipRecruiter, you can post your job to over 100 websites with just one click. In fact, over 80% of jobs posted on ZipRecruiter get a qualified candidate in just 24 hours. You can find candidates in any city or industry nationwide. Just post once and watch your qualified candidates roll in to ZipRecruiter's easy to use interface. You won't have to juggle emails or calls to your office. You can just quickly screen candidates, rate them, and hire the right person fast. Find out today why ZipRecruiter has been used by businesses of all sizes to find the most qualified job candidates with immediate results. And right now, my listeners can post jobs in ZipRecruiter for free. That's right. Free. Just go to ziprecruiter.com/james. That's ziprecruiter.com/james. One more time. To try it for free, go to ziprecruiter.com/james. Let's talk about this Seinfeld year for a second. So you started you know, you ran into Larry David. He he he I guess you knew him from Yeah. What happened was, a mutual friend, Steve Skrawband. I mean, I knew I knew Larry David from the stand up days and the improvisation. How was he as a stand up before pre signed up? People say, you know, he was very well respected with comics, but he's like he is uncurbed, not as ridiculous, but my my explanation is the things he does, those outbursts, he may not have them, but these things he thinks. So who why'd you get that seat, and, how come, you you get a phone? You know what I mean? Like he won't scream at you, but he he he wants to. So he would just storm off the stage if they weren't laughing or a guy had his head turned. So he really wasn't a road comic. Like, I had to do a, you know, consummate. He he wrote, I guess he wrote on Friday. So he so he was respected where the people who didn't know know things that this guy is brilliant, but not not really a club comic. So but I remember I'd hang out at the Improv. I remember when he said, let's see who could go the longest without masturbating, but you gotta be honest. And that became the, Seinfeld episode. So, I I went to a surprise birthday party for my friend Steve Skrovan, and and he came later because he goes, I don't wanna have to yell surprise. You know? That's stupid. And he was always sort of a bully to me. Like, when's the last time you got laid? I can't picture anyone ever loving you. You know? You're a surtac loser like me is my Larry David impression. And he goes, what's wrong with you? You know? So then they were using a lot of stand ups as writers on the show, and people were pitching ideas, spec scripts. You know what that is, where it's says, how come you never wrote a spec script? I go, I don't like the idea of writing something that, is just a sample of your work. Something, you know, just write write write write one. Nothing will happen, but I will read it. I wasn't gonna do it because I'm that smart, like, savvy. Like, you you know, I I I I've I I I love this. Actually, I'll relate something you wrote to something on Seinfeld, but business, I didn't I thought when you got a job on a sitcom, that was your living. Most sitcom writers were 5 jobs ahead. Like these Harvard guys would on lunch breaks, we'd go on to Castle Rock and getting their next deal because they were writers on Seinfeld. I I was not smart. And that way, I'm not not a business guy. So what long I keep saying long a way of explaining that I never you know, there's some comedians, they want wanted to be the guy at the tape, what's his name? Rob, Petrie from Dick Van Dyke. I never wanted to be a TV writer. You know? So so but I said I have to write this spec script because the fact Larry David will read it, there were people in 1994 that would kill to have Larry David because I don't have to explain to people what a phenomenon, Seinfeld was. And and also the fact that Larry David was really the the runner of that show. He more than Jerry Seinfeld at that time. Right. So I I wrote a a spec script based on true incidents. One of them was this is before the Internet where if you had a blind date, you couldn't do research now. There's no such thing as a blind date anymore. You you put your name James, you know, oh, this is what he looks like. Oh, he's done all these books. Cool. I'm excited. You know, with me, I'll have a date, and a woman will they'll look me up on this thing that's not true. Celebrity Net Worth. It says 1,500,000. No. Or or let they think I'm rich because they see all my credits. They don't know a lot of them were free at $300. So so someone said, I have this woman I wanna set you up with. Oh, she's for the summer at Cape Cod. And I was so excited. What does she look like? So I thought of, like, a sketch where I hire a police composite artist to have my friend describe her so I could look at the picture and go, oh. So, she goes, I like that composite story. So I I somehow led to being a staff writer where, Seinfeld is different than other sitcoms. In the fact most writers sitcoms have a table. The writers sit around, and they come up with story ideas. James, you write that one. Seinfeld, you were on your own, where you had to come up with stories, and people weren't really helping you. My analogy, it's like a homicide. Everyone's trying to solve their own murders, but their own. We're all trying to serve serve murders solve murders. So we're all trying to write Seinfeld episodes. So so you couldn't write anything until you got your Jerry, Larry, Kramer, and Elaine's story approved and connect them. So I'd just be on my own and And just just to interrupt there, it's interesting that every main character had to have a story. Yes. And you had to connect them. Yeah. And and that was kind of innovative, for I mean, that was sort of a Larry David innovation for Seinfeld as opposed to prior shows, like like M*A*S*H or or Taxi. Not necessarily every character had a story line every show. Yep. Yep. Well, yeah. I wonder if it's because they were such, oh, iconic people or I think I think Larry did the yeah. He's mentioned that he just didn't want the other guys to sulk for the week. Well, no. Actually, what happened with me was I wrote this Kramer story based on this character I knew who is this eccentric guy and didn't want his refrigerator anymore. He wanted more space, which, and I had this funny scene of him putting the refrigerator on his back, going down the steps, wobbling, all that physical stuff Kramer does. And they and they Jerry and Larry rewrite your script when you hand it in, and they really cut a lot of his stuff. So when I was at the table read, I thought, Michael Richards Kramer was sulking. Like, I don't have a lot to do here. So I went over to him and go, you know, I I I I thought he was mad at me, and I said, I wrote more for you physical stuff. I you look upset. You don't have a lot to do. He goes, oh, I love doing the physical stuff. Can can can you tell Larry to put it back in? So I knew it wasn't a good idea, but I'm, whatever the word is, codependent where you wanna please everyone. So I go over to, Larry David. I go, Michael Richards is upset. Can we put some stuff back in? You don't talk to the actors. What the hell is wrong with you? Oh, what an idiot I was. Yeah. So, one thing, I know you wrote that, thing about only having 15 possessions. Yeah. And, you know, it's funny. When I was younger, I was like the 40 year old virgin where I had knickknacks and action figures. And as I get older, you know, I like having less and less. I even though the sound isn't as good on, what is it called, you know, with CDs with digital, I like being more of a minimalist as I get older. So when I knew I wasn't coming back so at first, you know, in my season, I had an office with knickknacks. I remember I don't know why. Whoopi Goldberg from Star Trek figurine. I didn't even like Star Trek. All these knickknacks and toys. And I knew I wasn't coming back, so each day, I take more and more stuff home. And then when it was the last day, it wasn't like I had to pack boxes. So maybe I'm getting deep. I think, like, life, you know, I I dated this woman many years ago, Jerry Stiller's daughter. And I remember Jerry Stiller had all this memorabilia and stuff. This is me on Ed Sullivan. This is me in TV Guide. And I said, I don't wanna well, he's not lonely, but I don't wanna be a lonely guy sitting in my room with all my knickknacks and memory. Here I am. Here's my picture. Here's my script from Sully Susan. You know? So yes. So as I got older maybe it's like Seinfeld where I'm waiting to die. No. I'm just kidding. Like Seinfeld, I'm waiting to get fired here. I'm waiting to she gave a look like she's worried. Well, well, why are you waiting to get fired? I know so so so one one question. Know because oh, sorry. Oh, well well, I know Larry David kind of wanted to circulate writers because he would he was afraid he'd run out of New York stories about comedians, so he wouldn't get a new know when that I was there when he was starting to bring in those, Harvard guys that really I remember what 2 of them one of them said to me, you always use stuff from your life. Nothing bad ever happens to me. I have to make things up. I go, how could you say nothing bad ever happened to you? But, you know, but so they they they they what happened was you just know because, you just sense when you're not part of it. But but when you when when that when you had that conversation with that person, nothing bad ever happens to you, you did then write a list of all these crazy Yes. Jerry ideas that you had that didn't actually happen to you. Why didn't you pitch those? They were very funny. I I I was trying on, like, the non jokes. Sometimes writing non jokes by accident, the real joke comes, so I'd come up with the most ridiculous things. And, I think when I did pitch, like, Manute Bol was a basketball player I liked because he was skinny. He was he was like remember him? 7'six or £130 £60. So I said, Jerry gets minute Paul mad at a basketball game, and where the hell was that? You know? So I think I I, you just you know, it's like a woman. I learned in life you know how you get a woman to like you? She has to like you. It doesn't work with being like John Pryor and Pretty Woman and seducing them and dancing. Anytime I try to get a woman to like me, it doesn't work. It's almost predetermined. Like auditions. So I knew, like, you know, like, I was really struggling to get another story line approved, and what happened was I pitched my oh, speaking of that, Paul Reiser did a thing where Patrick Ewing got mad at him at a basketball game. I'm mad about you. Well, in in Cove Your Enthusiasm, I think Larry David tripped a basketball player. So, you know, the thing is, I'm not saying they stole things, but it's like a chemistry, like I said. Like, if a woman like, I'll say something to a woman, and she'll look at me, I'll be the same guy like I'm Hinkley, you know? And then to another woman, I could be Johnny Depp or the early Johnny Depp. You know? So, you know what I mean? So it's not even what you say, it's just like I learned like, I I did a movie, I I I wrote that went to festivals. No. I learned when I was, when you write your Seinfeld episode, you're in on the auditions. So you always beat yourself up. Like, it's almost like you walk through the door. You're the guy or girl or not. So, you know, you could do at least fancy tics. You know, you're you know, I'm not gonna be, on Law and Order as a gritty detective. You know, it doesn't matter how much acting coaching I get. I walk through the door. There's this weird guy. You know? Whatever. I just exude this. So what I'm trying to say is I had a lot of ideas that they ended up using on Seinfeld almost like they were shut off. So when you see people auditioning, when you they're not right because they're not right, not because they're not good actors, He kinda just shut off. So you just I just knew Larry was shut off to me, and what happened was I handed in my second script because I'm not doing it. There was, no point in, starting anything else up. The season's almost over. So there's 6 weeks to go, and it was almost like a Seinfeld episode they did where George was fired. He wasn't sure if he should come in. So I said I wanna get my 6 remaining checks, so I guess I'll come in. So I'd come in, get the free lunch, walk across the street, play pinball, and then go home. So little by little, I I I and there were there were 5 other writers that had that same thing. Same So I'm just putting myself in that mindset. Right? So let's say I had written a a a script for Seinfeld, and it was a great show. It was the episode The Soup, which was which was very funny. And, I would then think to myself, okay. I'm gonna pitch some shows, good or bad, but some some studio will give me a 3 show deal or whatever. Again, you know, I think, you mean to get another writing job? Yeah. Yeah. Again, I think I was so decimated, my confidence as being a writer, that before that, I was starting to get some work on Murphy Brown, whatever, amen, some, guest star work. And I kinda to me, sitcom writing isn't creative. Yes. If you're smart and you wanna have a house and a family and, you know, that stuff. There, you know again, there are people in Harvard that study to be sitcom right it's a business now. It wasn't a business. Yes. I I'm not like you. I never had a business sense. Like like I said, I didn't know I that I was supposed to go to lunches. Oh, well, here's a funny story. You know who, do you watch Entourage? Yeah. So Ari Emanuel is your person. So he said, you know, I said I got the job. He found out I got the job. He goes, I'm gonna be your your agent. I and he goes, I'm not gonna take a commission. I wanna cultivate a relationship with you. So then I guess he sees I didn't exude that kinda whatever, that wheeler dealer guy. I'd then, like, early on, he stopped returning my calls. He he so much was cultivating. You know, you you just get it. Like so like I said, TV writing is a business. This is like going into Wall Street now. It's like they learn the formulas. They write you write in the voices. When you create a show, you write it's your voice. When you write on a show, you're writing in someone else the showrunner's voice. A lot of people from some people eventually in Seinfeld, like Alec Berg, runs with Mike Judge Silicon Valley, which I love. But a lot of them, a lot of Simpsons people Simpsons people never created their own show. They just are smart and know how the formula and what if Jerry does this and stuff. So, yes, I and I really didn't see so then when I snuck out, when I was they said don't do anything. I did a part on Murphy Brown, and I I I started doing some more of the guest stars. And then when I was let go from Seinfeld, I started getting some guest stars. So that got me I was so embittered from the sitcom experience that I, yeah, I didn't go that route. I and why I have an apartment and not a house, you know, and all that. Yes. But let let me ask you. Just this is just kind of, sort of the the basic economics question. You've been in so many shows. I mean, there was one show where you've done The Voice on 84 different episodes. Oh, no. No. No. No. Yeah. I got lucky with Handy Manny, a kid's show where I was the monkey wrench, and and that was great. So, yes. Preschool tools that talk. So I I had a little nice run with animation for a while. And do you get residual checks from all these shows? Not insane. You know, not like, you know, guys like Phil Rosenthal from Everybody Loves Raymond, but they go down and down and down, but they're nice little things. I had my landlord. My landlord looked me up. He goes, hey. You should pay more rent. You know? You know? I didn't know you you work so much. And he goes, you you you he wants me he wanted me out. He can't kick me out, but he was resentful because, you know, he can only raise my rent 3%. So it's like when he looked me up on the computer, it's hard for him to get him to fix things because he thinks I should own a house by my resume. So no. No. What you're trying to say no. I'm not doing a sob story. I'm very fortunate. What happened was, well, because I don't have a mortgage of kids, I I I and because I did that animation, I wasn't strangled and desperate. So then I started writing these things because I go, you know, what would I like to write without trying to make the big sale? Well, you know, so it really you know, they say money blah blah blah doesn't buy happiness and all that, but to me money buys, for me, not being desperate. And that's why with the possessions, you know, you wrote about, I like that. I like to me what money buys is to come to New York and just treat, you know, if I'm having anxiety, get in a cab. I thought, like, it's I mean, anxiety too. Not, you know, it's raining at JFK. Get in an Uber. Not take the the train to the thing, to the bus, to a hell you know, and then you slide down the slide, you know, plan, and then you get off on fourth street. You know what I'm saying? So just the freedom to extricate. When I'm with my mother, I could just bolt. You know what I mean? I went there for my father's funeral, and she's going, oh, she tried to kill herself. She took a a a night, but it was plastic. It bent. And and I said I'm going to a hotel. So just if I the freedom that you know, because I I had anxiety years ago before I had money saved up that what if I get kicked out? Like yeah. So to me, money buys not possessions, but nondesperation to be creative and to extricate. So now now you've written these 3 books. Yes. Obviously, they're a source of great pleasure to you. And, again, there's been an evolution. Like, you went from kind of the my Seinfeld year where you took maybe this seminal point in your life and and wrote a Kindle single about it. Then it became more a a broader memoir with your second book, you know, maybe we'll have you back, and it's kind of your full career as a guest star in so many shows. And, again, I will repeat, this is you're a part of television history. You've been on every you're you're the only person who's been on every single TV show. Like, I grew up with all those shows that you've been on. You know, suddenly season was ahead of its time because before they had gay guys so much on TV with Will and Grace and, I guess, even before Ellen, but I played a low key gay guy, and there was another low key gay guy. Yeah. Well, then and and just a note And Kathy Griffin was going, you so homophobic, Fred. You're not holding hands. Because we were supposed to be dancing, at a wedding. So she was annoying. But what? Alright. That's right. Because Kathy Griffin kinda got her breakout on Suddenly Susan. Yeah. And then, of course, she did her real she's very aggressive. She did her reality show. I forgot the adventures of the d list or something like that. Yeah. My life on the d list. And then this 3rd book again kind of evolves from your your broader memoir to be more almost like a a journalistic like a narrative bi fiction book. Yeah. And it was really it was it was fascinating to me because I felt like I was part detective, part reporter that it's really hard because I I was at the mercy of p to tell these 5 stories. And I'm so happy that I got 2 wives of them to cooperate. Some people wouldn't cooperate. Some people resentful, suspicious. But even that becomes part of the story Yes. Like in this Gonzo style. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. So it really I one guy you know, I relived, in Seinfeld. What happened was Kenny Bania was based on a real guy. A guy gave me an Armani suit and said, now you're gonna take me out for a meal, and we're even because, you know so we went to this Jerry's Deli, and he he just got soup and soda. It came to $20. He goes, I'm gonna save the meal for another time. He did this, like, three times, and and that became Kenny Bania. So one guy, we went to a place in Malibu, an expensive, what's it called? Sushi place. He goes, I'll just I'll take it easier on you. Just get appetizers. It came to $70. Then he he goes, oh, I got an I I forgot something else about Warren Thomas and Rob Schneider. Meet me at Waffle. So we had waffles. And then he set me up. He texted someone who texted someone else, and I got another interview. It was now we gotta get a real meal at Nobu in Malibu. And I go, you're just like Kenny Bania. He goes, well, you benefited. I should. So and then I but then I'd have to hang out with this annoying guy because I wanted my story. It's like that cliche. Your story, your book is your baby, and these are my babies and what you do. I'm coming to New York spending money. I mean, I'm glad to do it, but, you know, I believe in this. This is the thing I'm most proud of. Because, yes, it's a little more dimensional than some of those other things. The fact that and I yeah. So yeah. It was, What's next? I wanna write more things. I hope I don't regress to being just about me again. I like, I like the fact that I'm not waiting for a, you know, a line producer or releases. Just I can write it. So, I have some people interested and they you know, it's so flattering. Like, you know, all my life as a writer, I I had no confidence. I'd try things out. And and now someone people are saying, you you from these three things have created a distinctive voice, so I have, more things, either a single or another book of, maybe not so showbiz centric, but hopefully creating a persona like someone well, one guy said, I don't agree, Charles Bukowski. I'm not as gritty, you know, but but that kind of thing. No. You have, there okay. So let's An outsider guy. Oh, someone else just said the American Splendor guy. So I I see that more than Charles Bukowski, but I'm finally embracing American Splendor is the Harvey Bucar? Yeah. I'm embracing that this kind of self aware outsider, you know, guy that doesn't fit in. So I want to keep writing these stories. Like, as a writer, I know I'm not gonna be some guy they're gonna bring in to punch up Ratatouille too or but, you know, I I finally this guy I met Monday, and I wanna jinx it because, you know, you're good at writing about your experiences. And I never had the confidence, you know, to write about my own experience because because, you know, yeah. But, you know, I think in the in the 5 minutes to kill, you don't just write about your own experience. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You you explain it now. Respected it now. But, but, yes, but but and these other things, I I I yeah. I was really 5 minutes to kill is really about kind of these elements of success, and so many things. May seem like my experience, but I like to explore what's delusional people in my life. Am I delusional like them? That scares me. But then again, I envy delusional people. I wish I was more delusional. So I think, yes, I am exploring other people through my story. You know? That, I'm fascinated with delusional people because well, my mother said recently, I resent nervy people. And she goes, I don't like nervy people. Maybe I resent them because I wish I could be nervy. So I never had, yeah, I this entitlement. So I just like kinda writing, yeah, this kind of voice where I know it's not gonna be, you know, competing with the hunger games and stuff. Just You never know. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it seems like even in this conversation, you've talked about several other ideas that could potentially fascinate you, like, you know, the different the difference between, you know, the aspect of timing in a lot of show business and how you could kind of overcome that aspect potentially or, you know, what you know, also kind of you've been through self acceptance. Yeah. Self acceptance, but and also how self acceptance might change depending on timing. So who you were in the eighties is different than what succeeds in the nineties and the o o's and the 10th, and television and media itself changes. Like, television now has changed so much. You figured that yeah. It's well, you can't have a Seinfeld show. Exactly. There's no show that's gonna have 30,000,000 viewers now. Well, what I don't wanna give away the, you know, stuff in my book, my new one, but a lot of people that didn't make it in the eighties or nineties could've made it now because they could've been better at podcasting, riffing. You don't have to you could just riff and go on tangents. You don't have to have that 5 minute, set, you know, that you gotta kill with on TV, or you could be pop culture reference, you know. Yeah. So some people are ahead of their time. Maybe I'm in the I was in the wrong era with acting, but I'm really happy for what happened and didn't happen because it leads to I finally embrace expressing it. Well, would you say that is self acceptance? So self acceptance doesn't necessarily mean, oh, I'm happy all the time because I've got, you know, the mansion and this and that, and I was a star on a show. But you were you were the character actor on many shows. I I I I like I said, I poohooed those kid shows when I did it. Ned's Declassified was a stupid show, but but, you know, I this this Kendall single, I don't know if it'll make the money my Seinfeld or whatever, but I just I just want it to be a story that gets out there. You know? And and I I would trade that for another handyman even though I made good money. It's a really but, yeah, there's nothing like for me expressing myself. And, again, it's, it's about reinvention also in the sense that Yes. You know, you started writing these books in your fifties. You're 59 right now. You had, you you've had 4 different careers. Right? So you were stand up on the road. You write a lot about reinventing yourself. Yes. But there's one thing as we're sounding it out, I just realized, is it conscious to reinvent yourself or or no. You go with what you have. So And you go with what excites you too. Yes. Exactly. So, like, I have, let's say, these other ideas, and sometimes yes. You go where the energy where you there's not resistance. Like, I could have done 5 minutes ago. I I don't know. I could people said, why wasn't it a documentary? And I said, well, then I have to try to get the line producer, and I've tried to do my own documentaries, and you don't see eye to eye with the guy who put the money up, the guy who shot it, and get the sound and the releases. I said, that would be great as a documentary, but what can I do that I could do now? You know, I could go around to pitch things, but I'm not the hot young guy from the Aspen Comedy Festival. I I have an in it Kendall singles. I pitched them. They said, we love this. So go with where they want you, not what you think is the home run. Go with what excites you, what's creative, and, yeah. And so I don't know if reinventing is a conch yeah. It it was sort of half and half because you knew you wanted to write these books Yes. But you're not necessarily gonna force it has to be easy too. You you try the different things, like, oh, maybe the documentary, but no. It's hard. You know, I I shouldn't regret this, but, like, I was a stand up. It wasn't ever my passion, but I was in a conference zone of the comedy boom in the eighties and thinking I'm unique, I'll I'll be discovered. And then then I came to LA. It took a while to be the character guy in TV shows, but to be honest, I wasn't really that happy because I was because I was going, all the network of people seeing me, I'm funny. Why don't I have a regular sitcom job? And you're always on eggshells, like I said, trying to, you know, a guest star guy can't flub a line. He's gotta hit it out of the park. If his line doesn't get a laugh, he's written out. So even though he's on all these seminal shows, it was harrowing. It was you see guest stars get written out. I I I I did some shows, Raymond and Friends, where I was in I was written out of the episode. They said not because you weren't funny, the scene isn't working. But still you think I might then you do an episode on Raymond. I did another one where they cut me for time a lot. So so it's just so nerve wracking when am I gonna be cut out from the week? I might cut from the scene. So it never felt creative. It's it's like a monkey doing flips. You know what I mean? Oh, that but so yes. So I I forgot my stupid tangent about, what I'm doing, yes, now is so so I was in a comfort zone thinking I'm on TV. I'm making a living as an actor. This has to be right, but it didn't feel right. So it took I'm happy that a lot of it dried out where and such great timing where I did the animation where I said, this is what I'd Fred, you have the money and the time to not be desperate. What would you like to write? And you know, just in terms of that animation, you have a very distinctive voice. Right? Is it still even with the cold? Oh, no. No. But you I'm kidding. You have a distinctive voice in general. Like, it's, that it's always this kind of depressing, sort of Brooklyn ish. Well, that's a blessing and the curse is either they want me or not. Anytime I audition for a voice over, I'm not gonna get it. They want me because, yeah, Jewish, New York, all that stuff. So, yes. So It's it's great for you you had a you had a whole career of voiceovers with with, you know, these Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're fun, but like I said, they have to want you. Yeah. Yeah. So, no, again, I you you'll I I took me a while to really come to terms, but it you know, what what I'm really happy about is, you know, I don't know if you write about this and you're reinventing and everything, but I'm in the parameters of show business by like, these are the laws. These are the rules. Like, this is pilot season. These are the seasons you make it. These are the years you're washed up. The as a writer actor, these are the years you're over. But I wanna go into a creative world where there's no real rules or laws. Like, I know so many depressed comedy writers that aren't getting work anymore, actors that I was like that for a while going, alright. I'll hang on a few more years. Maybe I'll get my SAG pension. Because you're waiting for them to call you, or you're waiting, you know, for showbiz, or showbiz is saying you're over now. So I I I wanna enter a world where I feel like I'm just starting now. I'm so excited with writing like this. I mean, that's really that's really great. And, again, it's a sign that it can never be too late to No. Reinvent. I mean, you have many books in front of you. Yes. Exactly. It's not too late. And, yeah, my advice would be don't go by what like, it makes sense if you're an NBA player. Like, okay. When you're 40, it's over. But if you're creative yeah. I think there's an important part of that too that you're doing these as Kindles or Kindle Singles or whatever. Expand more. Yeah. You can you don't need a publisher necessarily. You could just sort of upload you could write them and upload them to Amazon. Well, this actually the 5 Minutes to Kill was that's true, but they have now Amazon Publishing. So they did the cover, legal stuff. If I get sued by this, I don't wanna go into a lunatic sued me for the other one that got thrown out. But Kenny Kramer. Yes. Yes. We won't get into the store. People could Google it. Yes. So, basically You can I'm indemnify. It it's all legal, what I'm saying. Is But you didn't have to go through the hurdles of, like, getting agents and get dealing with a pub one of the main publishers. Like, you Well, but but I'm saying it's under Amazon Publishing, but you could do it independently if you want. So it the yes. It wasn't self published, but it was but you can. Yes. You that it's more competitive than when my Seinfeld year was on app because they did have all the now so many people are hip to Kindle Singles and self publishing, and there are people making a lot of money from it. Yes. Well, again, Fred Staller, author of 5 Minutes to Kill. Fascinating book. You know, I just wanna mention, I'm trying, at my late age. Every week, I'm do going and performing stand up right now at a local club. So it was an interesting passion for you? It it it is a passion for me. It you know, and I'm So this is like you you gave a lot of advice, right, on this show? Well, I I always just tell my story. Well, the cliche is do what you love, and the money will come. Now I still make the mistake of, oh, I think I have an in with these sketches or this, and I find myself trying to come up with ideas for stuff that's not really my passion because I think I have an in. And to me, what's most rewarding and what always pays off is if it's your passion. Not because, oh, Fred, I I run a, a website where we do bits about skiing. I'm making up the most nonsense. So I'm trying oh, I'll be the crazy skier in the, you know, in every weak report from a thing. And I and that's more desperate because I know someone in skiing. Oh, I could give you this, a skiing website. You know what I'm saying? When it went to me, it's best when it's this is what I wanna express. Well well, that's the thing is that I'm not trying to make a career as a comedian, but I just love learning this new skill. And it's been such a pleasure, and that's, you know, in part why I read all your books. It's like kind of this history of If you wanna stand up comedy and and being a comic writer. Tonight at 7, I'm not doing a set, but I'm doing The Comedy Cellar podcast with Dan Adderman. If you wanna meet any of those guys, you know I've been on The Comedy Cellar podcast with Dan Adderman. Say hi to Dan Murphy. Absolutely. Absolutely. So Fred Staller, 5 Minutes to Kill is his latest book, which I highly recommend, but also my Seinfeld year is fascinating to see kind of inside the scenes of of a season at Seinfeld. And also maybe we'll have you back kind of your whole career as The life of the perennial guest star. Yeah. Life of the perennial guest star. So thanks, Fred, for coming on the podcast. You. Everyone was so nice here. Yeah. I'm sorry. I can't shake hands because I'm considerate. I never know when people walk around with the mask, is it because they're sick or they don't want others to get sick? I think it's because they put the mask on because they don't wanna get polluted by New York. Oh, I thought they're being so considerate. Like, I have a flu. Nobody's considerate. Alright. I thought I have a flu. I don't wanna get you people sick as I walk through this crowded street. No. Alright. I'm gonna curse them out now. They're doing it for themselves. Alright. This is a lot of fun. Thank you so much. That was great. Yeah. It was great. For more from James, check out the James Altiger Show on the choose yourself network at jamesaltiger.com, and get yourself on the free insider's list today. Hey, everyone. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. I really hope you enjoyed the show. Before you go, I wanted to just say thank you to everyone who has rated and reviewed this podcast on iTunes. For instance, I'm gonna give, like, a little humble it's actually it's not even a humble brag. It's like an ego brag. Tim at aggrad, a g g r a d, said, this is my favorite podcast by far. Seriously, not hyperbole. James is a genius. He researches guests extensively and always seems to deliver the perfect question at the perfect time. He has a very high standard for guests. Every episode makes me think. Highly recommend. Tim, that was a really great review. Thank you. I'm gonna try, hopefully, to keep the same standard of questions, and and we'll see. But I really enjoy reading these. So, Tim, it means a lot to me, and I'm grateful for your support.
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