697 - Think About Probable Impossibilities with Alan Lightman

Transcript

This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is the James Altucher Show on the Choose Yourself Network. Today on the James Altucher Show. It's sort of like you go into a crowd, and you instantly have this special power where you see everything going on in the crowd. You see every weird, little, unusual thing in the crowd, and you make sure that you point out every unusual thing in the crowd and have kind of a punch line behind it. And it appears some of which you make up, some of which is a little prepared for that type of person. What is it? Like, you go into a crowd, and and what happens? A while ago, I was like, I'm just gonna be present and in the moment and just discover those moments on stage. And it turns into this cacophony of wondrous jazzy noise that comes from the audience because stand up is really a conversation. It's a dialogue, but instead of them talking, they have the ability to whatever it is, and it turns into this brilliant gumbo of all these emotions coming from the audience, not just joy, not just laughter. And there's all these different kinds of less. The key to learning anything is to kind of take any difficult skill and find as many sub skills as possible. So what would be some of the sub skills there? Be present. Trust yourself. Be aware. Be fearless. So I've got on one of my favorite stand up comedians, Aaron Berg. Aaron, how's it going? Good, James. How are you? Good. Now, Aaron, as you know, because you were there, I just turned 50, and I didn't even know that that Scott Cohen, who's also been on this podcast, I didn't even know Scott was gonna throw a party, let alone have comedians on there. And then you came on, and it wasn't quite a roast, but it was like your your style of comedy any anyway is, like, permanently roasting everybody in the audience, would you say? Yeah. I do, I involve the crowd a lot, and I make fun of people a lot, and it's very non PC. And I wanna I wanna get back to your background on how you start started off. How long have you been doing stand up? 17 years. About 11 days ago, 12 days ago. 17 years. Yeah. Yeah. Long time. So so I sort of feel, like, where where you can you know, the kind of obvious ways where I can see that level of experience come through is, it's sort of like you go into a crowd, and you instantly have this special power where you see everything going on in the crowd. That's what it feels like, where you see every weird, little, unusual thing in the crowd, and you make sure, in your time allotted, that you point out every unusual thing in the crowd and have kind of a punch line behind it. And it appears some of which you make up, some of which is a little prepared for that type of person Yeah. Because you encounter probably the same type of people over and over again. But what what is it? Like, is that, like, you go into a crowd, and and what happens? What what do you do? I just, a while ago, I was like, I'm just gonna be present and in the moment and just discover those moments on stage, so that's how that style came about. Now it's evolving because it's not necessarily present all the time. Because it's so proven, I can fall back on it now, so I have to shake it up to get back in the moment again, which is why I'm writing material again. And, I just go up and try and be as funny as I can and without trying. You know? I just kinda trust that it's gonna be funny. Sometimes I have to push, but other times, I don't. And I want them to laugh really hard, really often. You know, there's there's a lot of things I wanna unpack in that statement. Yes. I've seen you I've never seen you bomb, and I've seen you do stand up a ton of times. Actually, the first time I saw you do stand up, I it was at the New York Comedy Club. It was at Gino's album release party. Yeah. And you were up, and you were just destroying the crowd. Like, you were going into the crowd, and you were tearing them all apart. And I said to the person standing next to me, I I am not following this guy. I'm gonna quietly walk out the door. Gino could survive this without me. Yeah. And right then, you were going off, and Gino was, like, pushed me. Like, dude, you're on now. Yeah. And I had to follow you. And it is the scariest thing because, you know, you bring the energy level of the crowd up so much because, a, they're laughing a lot, b, they're on alert. Because no one wants to be called on Right. By you because you're kinda making fun of everyone. So they're on alert in a different in a high energy way. And if someone has kind of a slower style or any kind of different style, like, how how does one follow you? I I've heard people complain about it, but good comics don't have a problem. Well, I'm contrasting myself. I'm Yeah. I mean, no. Not not in a bad way, but there there are come to think, like, lots of pro comics don't wanna go up after me even if I'm hosting or something, and even some of the best comics acknowledge, like, it's a big gear shift. But they they do it because they know they get stronger by doing it. But there's a lot of people that complain and don't do it. Those are the comics that don't get stronger. It it's funny because that was that was kinda when I was first starting to do a lot. Like, I I was been doing this for not 17 years, 2 years, but let's say in the past year, much more frequently, like, 3 to 6 times a week. But that was in the the 1st month or 2, and so I was terrified. Now I view it like how you just said. Any situation where I start to feel terror, I switch my mindset and think, okay. This is a great opportunity Yeah. To to a challenge to try to do this. But, still, what's what's in your experience, how and and some advice I've gotten is, you know, kind of take a moment to reflect with the audience that, hey. The atmosphere is about to change. Sure. I I think you always have to acknowledge what's happening, as a stand up, and that's what I learned. It's a huge difference in between how I used to look at it, which was it had to be this great polished product that you were trying to sell to, finding oh, no. You're gonna be more successful if it's consistently a work in progress. That's key. And that encompasses anything and everything. I mean, I used to do showcases, you know, for festivals and TV, and I'd be like, it has to be word for word, beat for beat, and I didn't get anything. And then the year that I start I mean, I didn't do just for last for 16 years. Part of that was political because there was somebody that didn't want me there, but then after I was, like, you know what? I'm not gonna do it like this anymore. I'm gonna do it the way I want to, and I would talk to the people that were there auditioning people. So I'd be like, hey. How how's it going with you? Are you getting any dicks since you've been taking this job? You're up there in the hierarchy now. So I I would break down that 4th wall to a degree that it was everything was in the moment. So even if you're feeling that fear, it encapsulates itself into the performance instead of just holding it in and being like, what's the audience thinking while I'm saying these things? Instead of doing that, I voice that, so and and I'm very judgmental of my own stand up. I don't think my stand up is good stand up when I compare it to, you know, a Bill Burr or a Doug Stanhope, people that are really saying something with their stand up. But I do think my stand up is good insofar as how funny it is, and I I think how unique it is right now. Well well and, gosh, I wish I wish we could actually take notes on all the things you just said because I wanna keep going back to to to everything and ask about it. So you just so you I would say out of all the stand ups I've seen recently, you get more laughs per second than anyone else. Yeah. And in part, because I don't it's like just that laugh from the gut too. It's like a really strong laugh that because you're you're just tearing everyone apart, so we could kind of we all are seeing what you're seeing, and then you're saying some kind of, like, weird hidden truth about them or what could be, and it's just funny. But you compare yourself, right, just now to Doug Stanhope and Bill Burr, who have very different styles from you. They're, like, they're kinda like these angry ranting styles with some punchiness in it. Right. So they're not going for laughter per second. They might not even get laughter per minute, but they're saying interesting things. Yeah. So do you feel, okay, I'm getting all this laughter, and that's kind of one of the purposes of stand up comedy. But there's do you feel like they're saying more kind of topical or or deeper things? Or what do you what do you really say as a like, I personally like laugh per second. I think that it's a grass is always greener type scenario where, you know, I've had some people be like, I can't do what you do. So I I think when I started out, it was always like I wanna be like a Lenny Bruce or a Richard Pryor and be this voice, and now it's the exact opposite of that. You know? It's silly. I know some comics that, like, I respect that watch me, and they're like, it's s**t what you're doing. So How does it make you feel when when when you after you've been doing the 17 years, and you've heard someone say that about you? I mean, I I always try to not compare in despair, which is this thing where it's like, you know, I don't wanna compare myself to these other people, but, you know, to have, you know, your peers, not enjoy what you do is a thing. And I've and I've encountered I've I've talked to some of them, and I'll be like, do you hate what I do? And some people will be like, no. I'm, like, just really envious of the fact that you can do it. So there is a thing where I'm I I walk a fine line where it's like my style of comedy, maybe in the eighties, would be hacky, but now because it's more of a nostalgic form of stand up comedy, no one else is doing it. So it can't be hacky because no one else is doing, the thing I'm doing. I mean, I don't I don't see how it's hacky in the sense that you're not doing I mean, we're kinda getting into to the weeds of this. I should mention you've you've done stand up all over the place. Yeah. You did this you were on television. You've got written 2 books. Yeah. Movie credits. Yeah. Yeah. Movie stuff. Well, name the 2 books. It's like mister Manners. Mister Manners proper etiquette for the modern degenerate and American etiquette failing upwardly in a Fox News nation. Yeah. And and, you know, you've done I've seen you do stand up a 1000000 times at stand up in New York, but you do clubs all over the city and all over the country. And, so so you're out there. You've been doing this. We'll we'll get more into your background in a second. But, again, I don't see it as hacky in the sense that it's it seems to the audience like you have this x-ray vision on them, and you're able to pull out the humor in just the slightest nuances in them. And I know some of it's a little prepared, some of it's written, but some of it is clearly not prepared. Yeah. And I I feel like that's, like, a hard and intelligent skill. I don't feel like I feel like maybe you're thinking traditional crowd work might be a little hacky, like, hey, where are you from? What do you do? But, like, I don't know. You'll pull out you just pull out the most insane things and twist it about the people in the audience. And and you mentioned earlier, a lot of it is about, being present. And I've seen you before a set at State of New York. I see you sit outside, and you're just thinking by yourself. Is that your way of, like, getting in the moment? Or I'm not thinking about the set. I'm just thinking about s**t in my life that, you know, I I don't think about going on stage at all. If I if I'm thinking about it, I know it's not gonna go. Like, I had to audition, I had an audition at a club downtown a few weeks ago, which is, like, a big thing, and I was like, why am I so I started thinking about it, and right away, I knew from past experience I would just shut my brain off, and I'd be like, don't think. Don't think because I'd think about the book you're watching. I'd think about what she would say to me. I'd try and project this future, and I'd just shut my brain down. I'm like, don't think. Whenever I thought of her or the audition process, don't think. And then I went on stage and did great and got in at the club. I still haven't gotten any spots there, by the way, which is breaking my heart. But so, that that was just a great lesson to not think. Like, the the the whole thing about being present and in the moment is having that moment and not, predicting what's gonna happen. So just going up as a blank slate. In an ideal world, when I'm taking the most risks, what I do on stage is I'll have a thought. So this thought that I have now is, like, I had sex with my wife yesterday, and it was amazing because I didn't have to wait for her to come, which never happens. And usually I have to wait for her to come, and it's this whole thing, and then I was, like and then so that's the thought that I would go on stage with tonight, and I would start with that, and then wherever the conversation would go, the conversation inevitably, I'd end up talking to people about their sex. Does she come? You know, stuff like that. But to just have just have a thought in my head at the very most. Otherwise, just go up blind. But there but there is this it's not like everybody who kind of is a blank slate and is present is able to then do what you do. Right. Like, so there's a some skill set that developed over time, which is not only can you point out things about a couple's sex life, but do you know how to, like, twist it to make it funny? And where's what's that? Because I even saw right before this podcast. Like, almost everything we can say, you could twist it in some unusual way, and it's funny. Yeah. That came from just years of talking on stage. Years of talking. And, you know, you used to do, I would say, on a more traditional stand up. Like, when I see on Access TV clips and, like, Gotham Comedy Club, you had a written act. And I still see you do elements of that written act. Like, you fall back on it. That's, like, the spine that's saying Those gothams were those that those were where I kinda learned to trust myself, where I was, like, just go up and do what you would do in a club. So I I don't talk to them as much on those tape sets, but it was, like, you know, inferences of crowd work and quick bangers and a few in the moment things. But, you know, stuff that I'd done before that I thought would hit as best it could. But, you know, there's there's there's stuff that's that's funny, and then there's stuff that I feel are tactics to kinda get the crowd on your side. That's and that also could be funny. But, like, friends, I've seen you do this a couple of times, and and maybe maybe this is true, maybe it's not, but you feel one side of the audience is laughing more than the other side, and and you'll point it out. You guys are laughing more than you guys. I've gotta win you guys back. We got Fox News over here. We got MSNBC over here. Yeah. Like, so you I've seen you do that several times. It's prepared, but it feels in the moment. And, it's it's funny, but it's also a way somehow of, like, bringing the tribe back together. Yeah. I don't know how that does that, and I don't know how I still don't know, by the way. Do you? Left side, right side. I've seen a couple people do that. I don't know I don't know how it works. Maybe through division, we cause unity, which is a great political lesson for this presidency. Yeah. I I don't know. I'm unaware of the parlor tricks or whatever I do now because I I I don't know what those things are. I'm just my only concern is keep them laughing. That's all I care about. So I'm consistently scrambling, which is what makes me quick is because I know I have to keep getting laughs. Do you get scared if they stop laughing? No. I now I embrace that. And what do you do? Like bombing. I really hate bomb. I I I mean, I think that's why I've never seen you bomb in, like, let's say, 20 times, but what what what when was the last time you bombed, and what does it look like for you? Where was it? I mean, the night before my cellar audition, I I had, a set at Dangerfield where I ran the set that I was gonna do at the cellar, and that set bombed, but then I got out of it with other stuff. I had a bomb. I don't know. I don't remember the last one, but I know it was in the past few months. And let's say you're bombing. You say you got out of it. How did you get out of it? Well, I did the set that I was gonna do, and I said, oh, that's set. I'm auditioning at another club with, and, that went horribly. So we'll see. Alright. And then I went right in the crowd work instead of and that pulled me out of it. You know, it was a 20 minute set. The first 6 minutes bombed, and the rest did well. So so with the crowd work, I kinda feel like you have a set let let's call it you have 50 tools in your tool chest, so you know you could kind of rely on these tools. You could find the right archetypes in the crowd and pull out some of these tools. And then in between that, something might take hold where you see someone who's not part of your tool chest, but something strikes you as funny in the moment, and you're able to pull that out. And sometimes that's the funniest. Yeah. That's what happens when I get bored. E even if I'm doing great with that things I've said before, I'll see something that strikes me out of the ordinary, and that's usually where the gold like, the other night, I saw a guy that was so black, like, so dark black, and I go, you are so black. And then it just came from there that he was from Africa and this place called Togo, so we just went off on this thing, and, you know, ended up What's going on? Like, so so far that the No one was offended, by the way. And I said, you are so black because it's an honest thing that just came out of me. It's not filtered through racism or hatred. It's just like, wow, this guy's skin is so black. And and it's a funny thing to say that to another person. No. People don't really, like, go up to other people. Know that. No. Why do you It's not like a business meeting when you would say that. No. Those are fighting words on the stream. You can't say that to your UPS guy. Right. So so but let's say that's, like, a funny premise, and then what's the punch? Like, how do you then once you start to dial out laugh on the premise sometimes. That's just because you are so black, and it's like you are so black, and that gets because there's uncomfortable the the thing that people say now where the like, comedy's being ruined because of political correctness, it may be for some people, but it's not for me because I push so much over the line. So when I go, you're so black, it gets that he didn't just say that. Then it gets they look at him, and they're like, it's true. That guy is so black. And then there's also that shock factor. There's still that, like, they wanna groan, but they wanna let and it turns into this cacophony of, you know, wondrous jazzy noise that comes from the audience because stand up is really a conversation. It's a dialogue, but instead of them talking, they have the ability to groan or laugh or sigh or heckle or whatever it is, and it turns into this brilliant gumbo of all these emotions coming from the audience, not just joy, not just laughter. And there's all these different kinds of laughs. There's you could tell those laughs when people have been holding it in. They've been going through something painful, and it spills out. Like, almost, oh, they almost vomit it out, and they're shocked to do it. So there's all these varying levels of laughter. So when you see this thing that's in the moment where I had no idea I was gonna say you're so black, I just saw this guy that was so black, and then my mind will be like, oh, he's almost purple. And then you're like, ah, you can't do that. Richard Pryor did this. This is how fast my brain is working when I'm doing this, and then I'll be like, you must have, like, a super black name. And then he said his name, and he go, Andrew. And I'm like, Andrew. And he go, no. Ezra. And I was like, now that's a super black name. And then we went from his name to where he was from. So these standard little things, like, what's your name? Where are you from? But they're so enriched by the people in the audience. They're enriched by the people in the audience, and they're enriched by your sideways take on the where are you from. You got to the where are you so so let's say most comedians are like, where are you from? And you you you got to the where are you from through this kind of shocking way. Yeah. And do you think it's do you think kind of, I mean, comedy seems like this there's always a moving definition of what of what it is and what's good comedy. But, like, do you always wanna say the thing that's a little bit over the edge that everyone would be thinking, but no one is saying, and you're trying to say that as fast as possible to as many people as possible in the audience? Yeah. But it may also be a trained response in me now because I know you know, so I I think it takes more and more for me to shock myself or for me to shock them. So you have to shock yourself? I don't even know if I consciously try to do it. I just try to be and and try is a horrible word, but I I'm just being honest, but I know I fall short on it so many times. I know in my life I fall short on it. I know on stage I fall short on it. I'm not honest enough. So it's it's constantly a work in progress for me to be as honest as possible. What does that mean? Like, where where in life and where on stage are you? Having a miserable time with my wife, and we're fighting, and it's like, that's what I wanna go on stage with, but then sometimes I go on stage, and I just want to escape. You know? I want to escape the same way the audience wants to escape. So in that regard, I'm not the best comic that I could be. You know? I I feel like I need to dig deeper, and I need to be more honest. Well well well, like you say, with, you know, like a Doug Stanhope or a Bill Burr, they're gonna bring up kind of societal issues and and speak about the ludicrousness of of those issues and kinda find with the audio. I feel together with the audience, they're gonna find the punch, the punchiness in that in the ridiculousness of some situation. You don't do that, but because you're so focused on the laughs per second, and and the and the and the the which is incredible, the the speed by which you could joke around. Let's also call it laughs per minute, because if they were per second, that would be absolutely hilarious. Well, I would say, though, let's say they say the and I don't know if this is I don't believe in this rule, but, like, it's a cliche that, comedians get a laugh every 15 seconds. Right. I would say you're, like, every 5 seconds. Yeah. I try I try to make I try to make punches as quick as possible and wherever I can. So if I'm setting something up, I try to make a punch in the set. I try to punch. So so so, like, take the example of, like, okay. If you go up on stage tonight, you're gonna talk about, sex with your wife last night. And instead of kind of, like, going into the audience and, when did you have sex with I don't know what you would do, but what about kind of thinking out loud, you know, why this is an unusual sit why do married men Yeah. Have an unusual situation when it comes to, like, you know they think about sex with their wives in a different way than unmarried men. Now you have a topic you could play around. Is that maybe a deeper way of going to the That's the goal is exactly what you described, is to go up and be able to just think out loud. But, also, you know, I'm not diagnosed with it, but I my brain jumps around a lot, so I could start with that. And if there's not a laugh coming, I shift because I'm so used to I'm so used to that laugh. Do you get anxiety when you don't get that laugh? Yeah. But my but my instincts are like, okay. Just do something funny. So the it's the brain works so quickly that it'll be like, okay. They're not laughing. Are you not funny? No. You're funny. Okay. Do something funny. And that's the And in worst cases, you could fall back on your tool chest. So you could say, you're not laughing. You are. Fox News over here. MSNBC over here. But it becomes that those are tricks then. So it's I I I find the best way I mean, the best stand up I've done in the past was I would write something scripted. I would memorize it. I would work it on stage, which is the process every stand up comic goes through. But I've found a loophole now where I do the exact opposite, and I go, I'm not gonna write. I'm not gonna rehearse. I'm not gonna memorize. Instead, I'm gonna go with nothing and see what happens. Right. But if if someone took that direct advice, they would immediately go up and bomb. So you have you have, like, a there there there's, you know, there's always a problem, let's say, for someone who's beginning any field of of that they wanna any difficult skill that they wanna learn to be to be better at. People always say, oh, study the best. Learn from the best. The problem with that a little bit, which is a nuance of learning, is if I just take that advice that you just said, if I try to do it Yeah. It would be horrible. Yeah. Because there's this 17 years of learning how to take, you know, something unusual and making it funny in the moment. That was a hard skill to learn. So so, you have to kinda go to the people not with the 17 years, but maybe with the 8 years because they're still learning that skill. And so what was I don't know, what was what was the the what are the sub skills? What were the difficulties when you were basically trying to learn how to take something in the moment and turn it into something funny? Because now you can do it. It's like an instinct. The ability I was too mean for a long time, so I had to find a way to caress that meanness. And I You're still too mean. Really? I mean but people laugh now. I remember I used to be mean. You're not that mean alone. Be able to be like when I'm really killing, I can look at a table of guys and be like, oh, look at these f*ggots, and they won't be gay, but it's like when I'm really killing this word that's such a hateful word doesn't have that meaning anymore, and it's just people immediately get the irony of calling, you know, 3 jocked up frat guys f*ggots, and that hits right away. But if I'm being too mean, I'll be like, look at these f*ggots, and you hear people like, oh, what? Ah. So inflection is a little bit. Yeah. And the and who and the the discrepancy between what you're saying and what they look like, that, you know, they they're part of the joke. Yeah. It it it used to be too mean, and I used to be too angry. And I feel like on stage and off stage are so related. So once I got happier in my life that came on stage, there was no real anger. I can still get angry. I had a show at Dangerfield's on Saturday. Paul Virzi was on. He called me. He goes, I just walked out of Dangerfield. He's a very funny comic, and he goes, these people are unruly. There was no bouncers. One guy came up, tried to take the microphone. Another guy laid on the piano. These people are f**king animals, And I go, oh, great. He goes, where are you? I go, I'm on my way over there to go on right now. So I see him outside. He's like, it's awful. He's like, you might be okay. I went up. It was fine. It was a fight, but I have that skill where I can overcome 250 rowdy people because I was like, this guy's a f*ggot. Look at you and your Muslim friend. He's gonna get dakka'd the f**k out of here in a day, and they're eating it up because it was so mean, and that's what they were. They were just a bunch of Penn State a*****es yelling at comics, but when they saw somebody that alpha'd them, they had no choice but to kinda bow down and respect the skill because I I was one guy was trying to be the witty guy, and I said, hey. You guys ever seen the stepmother porn? He goes, I'd like to f**k your stepmother, and I just said, I will rape you in front of all of your friends. I'm gonna make them watch while I prolapse your anus. The guy shot up right after that. Well, also, you I should mention Yeah. You're, a jacked kinda you do you lift weights every day? Yeah. I lift weights 5 days a week, but I'm also 3 foot 8. Isn't that true? You think you know, what you just said reminds me of kind of the famous clip of Bill Burr in Philadelphia Yeah. Where he's bombing, and then just for 12 minutes, he he decides to just screw his show, and he's just completely saying the worst things against the audience and completely ranting at him. And by the time he's done, they've completely turned around. They're laughing at everything he says because he's just trashing them so much. So kind of is is asserting alphaness, sort of this way of really demonstrating that you don't care at all what they think? Yeah. That's you you don't get good until you really don't care. There was a really good comic in Canada named Mike Wilmot and really good, and it travels the world really funny, and I and I used to work with him. It was this ego thing where I was like, I'm at least as funny, and he'd been doing it 30 years, and so funny. And I kept trying to push, and he'd go, you know, there's something there, but he's like, you still care, and that makes you not funny. It's like when you stop caring. And then I saw him last month, and he goes, I was right, And I go, yeah? He goes, you got it now. So it was, It's so interesting because not caring is kind of the key to, let's say, any art form and much of business. If you're gonna say something that's different and unusual to either the not and I'm not just talking about the comedy crowd, but let's say different and unusual to the universe, you're gonna be largely, you're taking the risk of being hated until people accept your ideas, and then you're loved. So if someone says some innovative thing, like, oh, in 1990, the Internet's gonna be really big, at first, you're gonna be hated, and then you're gonna create some big Internet business, and it's you're gonna be loved. Yeah. So I think that's kinda the key to success for anything. You still have to care enough that you're gonna get that reaction. Like you say, you want the laughs every 5 seconds. Yeah. But somehow what does it mean then to not care but still want a reaction? I think you stop caring about the results, and you care more about the process. I think caring about the process is what's important. Caring about the results is not a good thing, and I also think this notion of, you know, everybody loving you, like, when I get, like, really positive tweets like you're hilarious, I still also I don't give them too much weight because I know I still get those. You're a piece of s**t. You're not funny. So I still get those, so I can't accept either one of those, you know, and and just keep you just keep going. I think that's it. I'm reading The Subtle Art of Not Giving A f**k. It's Making Me Really Angry, but, I know Mark Mark Manson's been on the podcast. I know him very well. Yeah. Yeah. Book's making me angry because it's so counterintuitive, and it's saying you have to embrace all this pain and struggle. And I'm like, oh, this is and since I've started reading it, it's been nothing but pain and struggle, and I'm waiting for all the good stuff to come out of the pain and struggle. But, it hasn't yet. So So so how did you, I don't know. Why did you start doing stand up? Let's stop to take a quick break. We'll be right back. I just wanna say thank you to everyone listening to this. I hope you enjoy what I've been doing. I don't ask for a lot, but please take a moment to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever it is you get your podcast. It will only take you a second, but it will help other people discover the podcast. And my goal is to share this great content with as many people as possible. To see the show notes, just head on over to jamesaltitude.com/podcast. While you are there, you can join my free insider's list to get notified when I post a new podcast. Once again, thanks so much for joining me on the journey of this podcast. So so how did you, I don't know. Why did you start doing stand up? I mean, obviously, you you had a sense of humor from the beginning. That was funny as a kid, but, I mean, I always wanted to be a movie star. And, so I I started acting in my early twenties, and then I got, like, little bit parts here and there. And I was like, oh, this isn't it just creatively, there wasn't enough wasn't enough. Like, you can run a monologue every day or you can go to classes, but I want it to be I think I want it for the wrong reasons. I want it to be rich and famous. And then, stand up was this thing that you could create every day, and you were fully in charge of it. So even now when I feel like s**t, if I sit down and write for 20 minutes, I feel better. And I don't write enough. You know? So What what's the writing process like for you? I don't I don't like I don't like to write because it's so it's like eating vegetables. But, like, would you do you start with a premise like what you said about Right now, I'll have yeah. A premise, and then I'll go on stage with it and kick it around, and that, I don't know, somehow it becomes something. It's a very organic process, but as I said, like, when I'm trying to evolve, I'll sit down and write, like, longer chunks. Like, yesterday, writing this bit about here's what being on testosterone replacement therapy is. Have you been on testosterone replacement therapy? Yeah. It's great. Alright. So let me ask you this. Two things. One is I I met some other guy, who was doing it. And because the the body is getting the testosterone from an external source, it forgets that it needs to also make testosterone. And so the guy started growing breasts because his body forgot he was his body forgot he was a man. Yeah. He's doing too much, and he has to also get all of his levels checked. And they they have other drugs that they can give you to make sure that that doesn't happen, but that's a horrible thing. A nightmare. Why why did you decide to do like, I sort of feel like My levels were really low. I had no sense of level. Sure. Well, everybody should be on testosterone replacement therapy. It's great. And what do you do? Get an injection? Or Yeah. I have to inject it. My wife does it now. She needs testosterone? No. She injects it into my a*s. So it's great. There's no pills or anything? You can, this you can do a gel on your shoulders, which is what I started doing. You rub it on your chest or your shoulders. But then, if your wife is pregnant or you have a kid, you can't have the gel around because it'll rub off on them, and then next thing you know, my daughter's got a dick, and then it's not a good thing. The other option is they can put these, pellets under your skin, but I've heard they they're horrible. Then the 3rd option is they give you injectable testosterone. And, what about pills, though? I see in GNC. Take male booster. Yeah. But that's not prescription stuff. This is what I'm doing is real test, baby. This is what bodybuilders use. It's great. And and Better sleep, better sex drive, less chance of prostate issues. Really? Basically rules out diabetes. If if if you're at risk for those things, having low t but I did steroids in my twenties, so that's why I have low t because I used to do you know, there was a 2 and a half year chunk where I was a competitive bodybuilder that I was injecting a whole bunch of stuff in my body, and that naturally drops your real testosterone. Because of what I said earlier, because then your body forgets this. You're getting it. My my balls are tiny. My wife looks at my balls, and she's like, look at your balls, laughs at them. They look like baby M and M's in a skin purse. So so so aren't you worried now that you're on testosterone therapy, the same thing's gonna happen that when you took steroids? And now you're on it for life. Now you're on it for life. This is it. Yeah. You get, like, my levels are good. I mean, at some point, once I'm old enough, and I don't need to f**k anymore, and I don't care about how I look, I'll be like, yeah. That's enough. I'm 60. I don't need to be jacked anymore, but I may, you know, I may do it till the day I die. That old bodybuilding adage, bring me a bigger coffin, bro. I you know, I haven't had a checkup since I was about 18. Why? And You don't believe in doctors. Yeah. I don't. Or and it's not that I don't believe in them. There might be a fear factor there as well and also a lazy factor. But and I've been healthy, but people keep telling me I'm 50 now. There's, like, all these things you have to check, one of them being testosterone levels. State. They gotta you gotta get Yeah. You supposedly gotta check that, but I don't care. I don't know. Yeah. You should. You probably should. And, but, you know, sometimes I get tired a little earlier than I think I should, and maybe that's related to testosterone. Could be. I think you'd be hilarious if you if you got a dosage, and then you doubled your dosage and just got all jacked but kept your Afro. I think it'd be the funniest look ever. You just walk around like this big bullied Jew, and you get, where's where's my guilt? Bring me my guilt. Nice dreidel. Yeah. So so okay. So you you so this is, like, you were writing about this. What's what do you about you know, how do you then kind of twist this into jokes? I mean, these seem like these seem like, scripted pieces that I would need to do, and then you have to get comfortable enough where it's like you're riffing with the audience. But now I've almost pigeonholed myself as that riff with the audience guy because it's like I've had some good showcases for the tonight show I'm trying to get on. And, so I'll send a tape to Michael, and he'll look at it and be like, ah, this isn't you. He's like, you you know, you go up and ask people who's f**king and who's doing it. They don't do all these work. Can't do that. I'm on The Tonight Show. He's like, oh, yeah. Good point. So it's like, you know, maybe I'm not right for The Tonight Show, so I'm I'm trying to fight to do crowd work on Jimmy Kimmel, because Kimmel was a huge Rickels fan. And, I know the book of theirs, so I'm trying to get on Jimmy Kimmel and see if I could do crowd work. It's a risk for them. You know? They wanna they wanna have everything approved, but, you know, I wanna fight and just say, look. If it doesn't go well, just don't air it. Well, so so I wanna get back to that in a second. It's probably a couple of things I wanted to get back to that I forgotten about already. But you started out year 1. How do you how do how does any when anybody starts anything let's say someone wants to be a great golf player or or violinist or comedian or actor. Year 1, everybody's gonna suck. Yeah. But they have to survive that period. You don't think you're sucking while you suck. You're trying to do the best possible thing that you can do. Yeah. You think that and and so so Paul Reiser described this on the podcast. It's almost like people in their 1st year are in a in a womb. They don't realize that it's so easy for them to just die, but the womb protects them somehow. Sure. My 1st year, I think, and it takes years to shake this off. It's like you wanna do stuff that you think is gonna stand out. You wanna do stuff that's gonna get you quote, unquote discovered. You wanna do stuff that's original even though you're not capable of thinking originally because you have so many influences going into your head at the same time. So for me, it was like, okay. I gotta get discovered because I wanted to use it to get into movies or whatever. So my first five minutes, there was like song parodies in it. There was I would do and I don't sing, but I'd be like, hey, this George Michael, he's in the news again, Maybe he should change his song to I'm whacking off before I go go. Don't leave me hanging in the bathhouse. Yo yo. And it would get laughs, and I was like, oh, this is easy. But it was such stupid comedy. But now, I mean, I I literally still do shades of that, where I'll do like, I'll be on stage and do a song and change the words, and people will be like, So it's So, yes. Okay. We were getting the laughs, and whether or not your your it's your judgment that it was stupid comedy, but like you say, you're aiming for a lot of laughs. Yeah. What was wrong? I I think stupid. Back then, it wasn't consistent, and it was also, like, that style of comedy. But I feel like people are less judgmental about style now because you get through a certain point where, you know, it's hack to say hack. It's derivative to say derivative. So you you just do what you do, and as long as you're as long as you're being you and you're doing your job, I think that's that's what matters. I mean But but, again, though, being you is weird. You know, let's say, someone's giving me advice about being a golf player. Just swing the way you would normally swing. Mhmm. That's not gonna be good advice unless I spend years Right. Figuring out the right swing. Like, so comedy, the right swing is just like you were saying when you were calling the jocks, you know, whatever, it's inflection of voice. It's like who you picked out specifically. There's all these, like, sub skills that you kinda had to learn so that the final thing would hit. It's it was your process rather than the outcome. Right. It's your process on the stage in the moment. Yeah. And that's that's what makes it exciting for me considering how often I do it. You know, I do 20 to 25 a week. So 20 to 25 a week? Yeah. So doing My top has been 6 a week. And I did 25 in a night. 25 in a night? Yeah. A documentary that'll be, the edit's done on Saturday. Was that is that gonna is that your documentary? It's gonna air anywhere? My doc yeah. Well, once we sell it, we're gonna try and sell it. So looks good. Yeah. I did 25 in a night. So when I do that many, you know, 20 to 25 in a week, it's about, you know, how do I make it exciting for me? How do I and I still I still don't feel pressure, but I know I have to deliver. You know, where it's like Saturday night, and people paid money to come out. I know I have to I have to hit hard. And when it's like you know, when I'm booked to be the last guy on the show or I'm booked to host Which, by the way, you're often the last person or the headliner in stand up New York where we're doing this podcast. Yeah. I feel like, you know, you you you wanna bring it home, so you wanna be I'm not thinking about it when I go on stage, but when I'm up there, you know, I I want them to laugh as much as they can laugh. So so okay. So so the sub skills of that, though I remember when I bombed. Alright. Tell me. Yes. It was at Gotham Comedy Club, and it was about 3 months ago, and I was trying to get a half hour tape to do a a dirty Netflix half hour special. And I was running the set on stage, and it was so mechanical, and it was just really bad, really bad. And I remember the Booker being there, and I'm very friendly with the Booker. And I came off stage, and he was gone. I was like, oh, that's it. I'm not working this club anymore. So even after even after 16 years at that point, and you've worked that club a 1000000000 times. You've been on TV for that club. Sure. And Yeah. You've been driving. And you think your career is over. Not career over, but Or your career with Gotham is over. Yeah. And then sure enough, you know, next time I went back, I killed, and everything went great. And, you know, I'm working there. But, it was that it was half an hour, and I remember getting paid and people walking by going, oh, that last guy was just f**king awful. Well, so what was wrong? What was what was mechanical? Too mechanical. I was trying to run this set. What does it mean run this set? I was trying to get a tape of this half hour set, and it it wasn't that busy. So instead of doing the tape, I should have been like, yeah. I'll just talk to them and f**k around, but I was so locked in to this deadline where I had to get the tape, and it just wasn't going well. And I should have bailed on it, but I didn't. I was like, stay up here. Try and get the tape. Maybe you can salvage it, but it didn't work. I'm still trying to understand. What went what went wrong? Like, what was what was failing? It was I wasn't in the moment. I was just saying words. Like what? Hey. I'm a I was doing all my material, all my jokes, but it wasn't genuine. It was it was for a result, which was to get the tape. It wasn't the process. So so let me ask you about this. I'm gonna I'm gonna ask advice based on my own limited experience. So I had a set of jokes or or a whole thing that was doing well for a couple months, and it was the same set over and over again. It was doing really well. And then suddenly, I feel like and this just happened, like, last week a couple times in a row. I felt like I was trying to replay the times it was killing. Yeah. And it wasn't working. Even though I knew everything was funny Yeah. Because it had made people laugh many times before. And now I feel like I actually have no material because I've lost interest completely in that material. Right. Yeah. That happens. It's gone. It's gone. You could maybe bring it back. You you it's still there. That's what people tell me that maybe, like, a year from now Yeah. But you could bring it back. Now it's not it's not working. I had this joke that was the best joke I wrote, and it worked for, like, 4 years, and now it just doesn't work. Like, what was the joke? If you're not originally from America, let me tell you what Americans are the best at in the whole world. Americans are the best in the whole wide world at getting killed at all inclusive Mexican resorts. And then it's this whole long act out of me going to it's such a long joke. It's 2 and a half minutes long. But, anyways, it's But but okay. That's an example where you can get, deeper into the ugly American, particularly in today's kind of global political environment. Mhmm. And but you'd have to risk not getting the laugh every 5 seconds. Mhmm. It was, yeah. It was less laughs, but it was a a brilliant joke and would always inevitably end with a huge laugh and an applause break. And then I was doing it more and more, and I'm like, oh, that applause break's leaving. Oh, these laughs are leaving. I was like, this joke just doesn't work anymore because it's not in the news anymore. Nobody covers Americans getting killed in Mexico anymore. I mean, I had I had stuff that was totally, I feel, totally destroying. But then I noticed it was like a it was like a tail off. Like, suddenly, something that would be a middle punch line in a bigger joke would not get the laugh. And only the punch line would get the laugh. Yeah. And then the the punch line would still get a laugh, and it would be like a chuckle rather than, like, a belly laugh or whatever. Like, it just starts to slip, and you don't know how to, like, save it. And then anxiety comes up. Yeah. The the material's there for when you have nothing else to say. Like, in a perfect stand up world, you would be able to go on stage every night and do 20 minutes on your day on what happened, and then the material make that funny? That's I feel that's the skill that we're skipping over somehow. You learn how to get funny by talking, by being around funny people, by, busting balls, by roasting people. You just learn the economy of words, and you learn how to think funny. And once you learn how to think funny, you learn how to talk funny. Okay. So so can so so you've you listed a bunch of different skills, but can can we identify I feel like, like, the key to learning anything is to kind of take any difficult skill and find as many subskills as possible to that are separately that one could learn. So what would be some of the sub skills there? Be present. Trust yourself. Be aware. Be fearless. The the best sets I do are when I'm not worried if they're gonna be offended. You know? So so in those moments, though, do you try to think of the thing that's shocking to you that will probably be shocking to them? I just say the first thing that jumps into my mind, which is usually the funniest thing. Right. Because you've built up that skill. So what's that what that 17 years of the the the thing in your head is probably the funniest thing, because that 17 years of building up. Yeah. I wanna hack those 17 years. Okay. First, you have to you have to come up with 5 funny minutes, then you have to do that same 5 funny minutes about a 100 times, like what you're doing. And then it's gonna bomb sometimes, and then you have to do it. And then you're gonna go, okay. It's time to write new stuff. You write new stuff. That's gonna bomb. Then you'll start to get it better. You'll start to figure out how to do it. Then you'll be able to start to, on stage, be able to riff and be able to say stuff that's not part of your script at 5 minutes. Then from there, you can learn how to talk to the audience. Usually, hosting is a good thing to do, but I see a lot of hosts that just do material. It's not it doesn't make them good hosts. They're just trying to get more stage time instead of really do that. Really doing I I gotta be a better host because I do view it as, like, a chance to do 6 sets in a night. It's not. A host melds the show, puts the whole show you know, the host can be the best guy on the show sometimes, and some people say, well, that's not a good thing if he was. That's not necessarily true. I've hosted a lot. And if and if you're the best guy on the show, it just means the other guys aren't stepping up, or they're working on new s**t, so they don't care about being the best. So it's possible for the host to be the best guy on the show. When you host, you learn how to talk, and you have to do open mics. You have to go out. I'm guilty of not doing it enough. I should still do it. So you should still you should still go I should still go little s**t holes, and just go on stage and talk. And just going on stage and talk and being okay with the silence is also another thing. Being okay with silence builds up that armor on you so that when something doesn't get a laugh, you're not scrambling, but you're like, alright. Well, no. We'll get a laugh at the next thing that I'm gonna say because it's gonna be whatever it is. Even though I have that reflex where it's like, I need these laughs. I need these laughs. I'm still okay with silence. I I almost embrace it because it means they're thinking, and we're changing gears, and I can take them to another level now. And then you have to repeat all that stuff. You have to polish up material. You have to constantly write. It doesn't stop. It never stops. And, like, I've been in New York for 7 years, and I was like, I just wanna if I can get past at the comedy cellar, it'd be the best thing. And then I got past at the comedy cellar. And I told my wife, I'm like, I don't even care if I work there. I'm just happy I got passed. I'm miserable. I'm miserable not working there. I'm like, I need work. Why why are they not working me? So it's, like, a big thing. Yeah. Well, I've been in New York for 7 years, but it took me that long to get an audition. Yeah. I wasn't that aggressive about it. I was kinda like, I'll I'll build up so that when I get that audition, it's a no brainer. Were you able to audition in front of an audience? Because it feels like you, right now, in particular, most of you a lot of people They put you in, like, on a Friday night when it's packed. Yeah. And then getting past, as they say, is you the booker was watching, and she said, okay. You're good. Yeah. So so, one thing you said was really interesting, which I find to be true. I always find there's the written jokes like you said, but the riffs always are the funniest because they're like you like you also said, they're the ones happening in the moment where you notice something funny, and that also is it's funny to you, so it's funny to the crowd. Yeah. And the jokes are kinda like the spine, but the riffs fill out the rest of the body. The riffs and the crowd work, at least for a club set Yeah. Fill out the rest of the body. You know, which, again, that's not doing it. That's different from doing an hour. It's different from doing, like, a TV show, like like, a a tonight show. But for a club, it feels like the the the riffs could be the funniest part. Yeah. The I mean, I feel like that's why I'm successful as a club comic because there's, you know, aspects of jazz and aspects of burlesque, and, it it's a nightclub act that I have, which is why it works in comedy clubs. And do you feel it it caps you in other ways if you get too good at this not too good, but it's the one word, but if you get locked into this one that I'm going through it right now, which is why I'm trying to evolve to, you know, get more television savvy. That being said, I mean, you can make a good living being a club comic. There's no, you know, Yeah. Like, I feel like what if, like I don't know if you've done this, but what if you were to do a college tour? I feel like you would be huge. Yeah. I don't think that they would let me. Oh, because of politically effective Political core I mean, I won the college comedian of the year in 2007 in Canada, but this was when you were allowed to be as dirty as you wanted to be. And it was like, you know, the other acts that were working a lot were, like, x rated comedians and stuff. Now it's, I think, unheard of, for a comic to be able to go to a college and say what they wanna say. What about, like, Las Vegas? Sure. I'd do Vegas. I mean, the the dream would be, do a residency in Vegas when I'm old and golf every day and then, just collapse down there. Is that a goal? Like, now you're 45. Been doing this 17 years. Yeah. Do you feel anxious? Like, okay. This is sort of I don't feel anxious. I feel like it's it's all it's all gonna work out. That's what Louis said right before he he fell off the map. But it's it's all gonna work out. And what are all these claims? It's it's all gonna work out, but, yeah, I mean, I'd like to hit that level where you could, you know, play Vegas every night, you know, like a like a Rickles type thing, I think. And so so so reeling it back, like, your your 1st year, you survived. You got you got some laughs. You got enough laughs to say, okay, you probably felt some sense of improvement throughout the year. 2nd year, 3rd year, when did you start to realize, okay, now I'm starting to slip into the rear? Until 6. And then I had an act after 6, and I was making a bit of money. I think I quit my day job after 6 years. What do you mean you had an act? Like, because clearly you had an act in years 1 through 5. No. I was building. It was all experimentation to see how far I could go and what would work. Then I had something that worked most of the time. What what was the difference between a non act and an act when you suddenly felt like, okay. This act is professional? It was scripted. I'd done it as a one man show, and then I cannibalized the one man show to make it stand up. And that was you know, it was working most of the time. Not all the time. I'd go to, like, small towns, and they would just be like, what the hell is this? Like, really offended. They they they wouldn't like it, whereas now it's, you know, you you learn more gears as you go. You learn I still hear people talk about, like, oh, my Trump jokes didn't work in South Dakota. It's like, okay. Well, what did you think was gonna happen when you're thinking about it that much? If they're jokes, they work, they don't work, but if they're, you know, thoughts and feelings and opinions, if I tell you a joke about Trump and I could see on your face you disagree with it, I'm not gonna be like, oh, that joke didn't work. I'm gonna be like, why do you disagree with it? You know, open up the conversation and then find more funny in it. Yeah. Some people are just, like, live and die on the jokes. But but here wait. I I agree with you. I think when it's, like, pure, joke oriented, I feel like I'm watching a comedian who's trying to prepare for his 5 minutes on Colbert as opposed to really playing for the audience and trying to make a great experience right then. But, what you just mentioned that was interesting, though, you see it on their face that they didn't like it, and then you respond directly to that. Like, that's a skill too. I think I think Well, that's being in the moment. If if you and I are having a conversation, I go, hey, James, your dick is small, and your girlfriend's ugly. Like, you smiled, so I'd be like, Jay, Jesus. James is comfortable. I know. They're both not true. But if you responded negative, I'd shift my gears and be like, look. I'm joking. I don't really mean that. You have a huge dick, and I met your girlfriend. She's lovely. So we would carry on this conversation, but it's that's, I'm I'm very fortunate I learned that in Canada. Canadian comics really learn how to listen because they they also kinda need that approval. Good comics have that. Good comics listen to the other side. I watch a lot there's a lot of com comics that do well. They're really writers. They're not stand ups. There's no essence of performance to what they do. You know? There are there's room for guys that just stand behind the mic and say jokes, but the best stand up comics with the exception of, like, a Steven Wright. I think of somebody like a Gary Veeder who's just like a pure writer and just stands there and deadpans his jokes, but he also works as a stand up because it's good enough that he can do that. But there's some guys that you just watch, and you're like, they have not an ounce of charisma, not an ounce of likability, and their jokes are okay. You know, Bill Maher would buy their jokes, which is like so So I feel I feel like do you what's the relationship between likability and humor slash laughs? There's you'll laugh more at somebody that you like than somebody that you hate, I think. That's your vibrator. You want to sit on the table. Don't know who that is. Good old Gerry Stevenson. Good guy. Used to, was running back for the San Francisco Giants. Is that really true? No. San Francisco Giants is not, their baseball team. So, where were we going with this before your phone interrupting? So so you see you've seen guys who are like, they tell jokes Yeah. Likability is important. It it some people are too likable where they smile through the whole act, which is a trick, where they laugh at their own jokes, which is a trick. I feel I feel like Dave Chappelle does that. So Dave Chappelle is great at Dave Chappelle's a master. He's a master, but I feel he and let's just say he's the best, whatever. But I feel like he often, he signals to to the audience when they should laugh. Like, he'll hit his knee with the microphone. He'll start laughing, and that signals to the audience you should be laughing too. Or it could just be because he's high, and he's really enjoying it. Uh-huh. You know? It's I've only done one show with him. I brought him on stage at Gotham, or I brought Jerry Seinfeld on stage, and then Jerry brought him on stage. And then I went up after Dave and did 5 minutes, and then, I brought Steve Byrne on stage. And did, and it was a wonderful night of comedy. Did anyone come to you afterwards and said, man, and you were that was awesome. And people were like, that's one of the best shows ever. It's so great. So great. So so so in terms of, like, this charisma on stage, you talked about crowd work. You turned talked about seeing what's on their face, and and responding to that. But, again, I'm still trying to figure out, like, some of the the secret sauce of them kind of twisting that conversation to be something funny. Like Well, there's this feeling that if I say something to you, your dick's small, your girlfriend's ugly. There's 2 options. 1 is like, oh, we didn't like it because I'm edgy, which is a thing a lot of comics grab onto. Like, if I say something, and it doesn't get a reaction that goes through my head where I'm like, I could probably yeah. I'm edgy for not because they don't agree. Sometimes edgy just means not good. Then you you wanna bring them back around. You wanna converse. You wanna talk about whatever it is you're talking about. You you they don't have to love you, but you have you have to be funny. You know? So, like, in that situation, someone doesn't like you. Let's say so you see make a joke about Trump. Someone likes Trump. They're unhappy. You see it. How do you turn it around? They hate you now. I had I was in Philadelphia, and there's this girl. She was drunk, falling asleep, and I go, oh, look at this. This is gonna turn into a Cosby real quick. And she kinda woke up and, like, gave me the finger, and I was like, don't give me the finger you milk his prostate with. I don't need to see that. So she's like, f**k you because you f**king and we talked her through, talked for a minute. I'm like, why do you hate me? She's like, because you yeah. Whatever she said. I moved on, went to something else, but this was out of the way already. We dealt with it, did some more s**t, came back. Look. She's laughing. I'm like, won you back. By addressing those uncomfortable things, it it makes them accessible again. And then but also in there, like, you say about her finger, that's what you milk his prostate with. Like, is that, like, 17 years of analyzing your sets going up 25 times a week? I've gotten the finger on stage a lot. People give me the finger a lot, so I had to come up with something because it was like, no. Go f**k yourself, and you're like, no. Think more. What what gonna be funny? So it's, what is it? It's conditioning where where you have to, you know and now that the prostate milk line works a lot of the time. Most of the time when I get a finger, it's a quick response. I feel like I feel like because let's say you've been someone's giving you the finger a 1000 times. Okay. Now you've had the chance to not only respond a 1000 times, but then think about it afterwards. How could I have responded better? So you have, like, this huge arsenal compared to, like, say someone who's been doing it for a year or 2. Sure. And, you know, and it's the same thing again for any skill. Like, if you're a salesman for 25 years, and someone says, no. I don't want it because of this. You have 25 years of experience of how to respond to that, objection to the sale. Yeah. So I'm always trying to figure out, though, are there ways to shortcut? Now one way for me to shortcut is to talk to you and say, okay. These are things I have to be thinking about. Yeah. But does that actually shortcut, or does that just make you aware of the things you need to work on? But I think awareness is part of it. Like, you know, let's say let's say you know I'll give you an example. Let's say in a in a business deal, you know that when you're anxious about whether the deal's gonna go through, you're gonna tend to make worse decisions than better decisions. So then you because you're aware of that, the next business deal, oh, I'm starting to get anxious. I better not make a decision right now and focus on my anxiety instead. So I know that from doing 25 years of business deals. So but awareness in comedy too is important. Awareness of what I don't know and what I need to know is, or or golf. Awareness of what, you know, I need to know is is important to get better. Yeah. I say golf because I don't know anything about golf. But, Lovely sport. But but but do you play golf? Yeah. But I haven't been playing a lot lately. I'm gonna get back to Florida and play. I I feel like that's a classic sport where there's lots of sub skills, and you have to get good at all of them to be a good player. Yeah. So, like, you could get good at just putting, but that might not make you a good golf player. Or you could get good at, like, long drives or I don't even know what they're called in it. But that won't make you a good golf player, but you have to get good at both. Right. So and I'm trying with Common to figure out what are all the sub skills. So there's kind of likability. There's crowd work. Credibility, crowd work, writing, performance, rebuttals, being prolific. What do you mean by prolific? Continually churning out new stuff. But then there's the the other side. I watch some guys that always have new stuff, but then they never polish it up, and it's never it's never ready for a special or anything like that. So, I mean, it really takes years to break. That's why so many comics don't really blow up until at least 20 years. You know? You see some exceptions to the rule, like a Michael Che or, you know, guys everybody saw Che as this wunderkind. I remember we used to do Eastville together, and then next thing you know, Blaze. He was on Letterman, then he had Comedy Central job, then he had SNL. And then so you watch these guys that are, you know, just exceptions to the rule, but a guy like a Louis CK, who was the best stand up comic for a long time, took him, yeah, at least 20 years Yeah. To really hit his stride. And so so, the other thing is is kind of the the business of what you do. So you're obviously not just a stand up comedian. You've written books. You have a radio show. I was just on your show the other day. You were wonderful. Thank you. I don't know if I if that's true or not. You guys it's hard keeping pace with you and and Gino. It's a it's a high energy room. Yeah. So I had to I had to kind of I was, like, thrown into the fire, and I had to keep from Yeah. You did great. Hurry up. And, but you do you're you're you're you do many different things. I think, that's an important thing too is that you kinda have to create and mold your own career, more than ever these days. You can't rely on one single path. Right. It used to be stand up to the tonight show, to sitcom, to celebrity, and that doesn't that path doesn't really exist anymore. Or if it is, it's kind of just one path among many. Yeah. You the industry, they're still relevant, but people don't need the industry anymore. People don't need the gatekeepers anymore. You look at guys that have established their own podcast and their own followings. Podcasts can do it. You know, you do the the gatekeepers don't really matter. You can make your own specials now. You can make your own books now, so there's nothing nothing holding you back creatively. Like, this 25 times in one night, did you just con conceive of that, make it yourself? Yeah. I was talking with somebody who was working with Morgan Spurlock at the time, and she's like, this is a great idea for a documentary. You should shoot it. So I I paid for myself. We've been paying for the edits myself. The director's kind of on board now. And, and it's almost done. So, you know, hopefully, we sell it for, you know, 10 times, 20 times what I paid for it out of pocket, and it's a good documentary. It's like a love letter to New York. And, it's so close to being done, but it's been two and a half years. Wow. Yeah. It's taken a while. And Netflix, they're they're spending, like, $10,000,000,000 on a lot of content. Is ideally where it would go. I think, like, Netflix or Hulu or Amazon. I think Netflix probably. Yeah. Yeah. So, what's the is that just 25 time? What's the name of that documentary? The Grind. And by the 25th set, how did you feel? Exhausted. It wasn't very good the last few sets. Started going downhill. There was a good junk in the middle destroying. And are you just going around from club to club? Yeah. Did you do the cellar, or you resist all clubs? I wasn't in at the cellar at the time. I mean, I still haven't done since I got passed. It's a major bone of contention with me. Not contention, but I'm just, people that are in there, they live and die by the spots that they get there. So when you get 0, you're like, why? I got 0, but I'm supposed to be working there. So it's a it's a big thing, and, no. I did it. Let me see. Eastville, Greenwich Village, The Stand, New York Comedy Club, LOL Comedy Club. Where's not stand up New York? Yes. I did stand up New York. Did not do the comic strip. Did not do Gotham. Did not do Caroline's. Did not do what's the other one? Did not do the cellar. Did most of the clubs. And then many multiple appearances. Greenwich, I think, was 3 or 4. The stand was 4. New York was 4, and then a whole bunch of bar shows. I started at 3 PM, went till about 2:30 AM. And when you start at 3 PM, is it starting with open mics? 1st show was a mic. So I did 17 club sets, 5 bar shows, 3 mics. You should call the Guinness Book of World Records and see if it if They want me to pay. Pay. It's it's newsworthy. It's media. Really? Yeah. Just totally pay. You broke the record. This is the move the documentary that broke the record. Alright. And then you probably are creating your own category. Right? Like Yeah. I just creating my own category. So yeah. Because they had most jokes in the night. They didn't have, most sets in the night. What's, what what do they want you to pay? I think it was $3 or $10. What the hell? You should totally pay it. What? I don't know. Because then you go then you then it's an extra media opportunity. You just want, like, free advertising. World record holder. And you go on, like, the, some morning show Yeah. And and say you broke the record for this, and people are interested in that. And then what happens? And then more people are aware of who you are and and and buy the document. And then maybe somebody sees it who says, oh, yeah. I wanna buy this for Netflix or whatever. Get the option on it. Okay. So I will I would definitely call Steve. Steve's a producer. Okay. Steve? Great idea. Alright. We're gonna we're gonna try to do that with this podcast. We're gonna invent our own category and figure out, a record. Okay. When we at my birthday, you called Steve a Bronx landlord. Were you upset, Steve? No. I was. I thought it was very funny. I thought it I you Jasmine looked back at you and and said, boy, I think Steve is upset. No. Not at all. I honestly thought it was very funny. Yeah. It was really good. Yeah. I called him in afterwards. Steve looked upset. He sent me an email saying he was really upset. I was upset. And He goes, I would begrudgingly like to have you on a podcast. I'm very upset. Well, it's funny because what I did do was that same day, the Daily Mail had a story about how a comedian was attacked on stage. Mhmm. And I sent it to He sent it to me. If if I were more thin skinned, then this might have been my reaction, but I thought you were very funny. And And at first, I go, who the f**k's this email from? And then, because I didn't know. I thought it was from, I thought it was from some black guys that were at a show. Cohen. No. I don't think you put your last name on the email. But, yeah, it was great. I called you a Bronx landlord. You were there with your lover. Our audio engineer, Jay, right there. You were there with your lover that you lay in bed with. There was a lot of anti semitism. There was? But he's Jewish, so something happened. I'm Jewish. I said I said someone looks Jew y this morning, and someone got really offended. Then someone goes, no. He's Jewish. He's allowed to say that. It is. So so okay. Final thing. I'll close it up. I am curious when you're doing writing, because you you emphasize being prolific about writing is sort of important. You have a premise. What goes through your head when you're turning a premise into a punch line? I don't think, I don't write set up punch unless I'm writing like a roast. It's just, I what was it called? g*****n it. The artist's way, which is a great book for creativity. Julie Cameron, morning pages. Yeah. And so, basically, live by that motto. I take care of the quantity. You take care of the quality. Letter to God. So I would sit I just sit down and go, and it becomes this jazzy thing where it's just like, okay. Let's talk about testosterone replacement therapy. So I'll start. Here's how I went about going to get it the first time. Here's what I and then it just goes. It just goes. It it's, it's free form. It's I I don't write with a structure, and it works. Alright. Well, Aaron Berg, what do you I don't know. I don't you can see you everywhere. You're you have the show in hot water as your radio show. You have, your 2 books, mister manners, and then American Etiquette. Yeah. Three albums. Mister Manners live from Long Island City, comedy coal train, and unscripted live from the comedy inn. How do how do the albums do? How does a comedy album do? My last one does very well. It was it was basically reading, like an audiobook. I took the mister Manners book and went on stage in front of an audience for 2 shows at the standing room and read selected chapters, And it's incredibly irreverent and, non politically correct. So that one, was number 1 for 6 days on Amazon. Oh, that's great. So, yeah, it was I mean, it's a good way to open. It it sold a lot, but, most of that's due, you know, to, compound media and great people at Sirius, like Ron Bennington and stuff like that. Anthony Kumiya, Ari Shaffir really gave it a push. So it's great people behind me. And and who who are some of the comedians who even now are influences on you? I I look to Ari a lot for advice because Ari's one of those guys that kinda does it his way and isn't afraid to say no. So I'll just say about Ari because I I remember one time, I heard him in a conversation where he basically said in his 12th year, he stopped caring what the audiences think. Yeah. And then right afterwards, he went up, and I was in the back watching. And I thought he was so funny, but the audience was not laughing at all. It was, like, his real intellectual, kind of, like, here's the history of Hasidic Jews type of stuff. And the audience just it was silence, but he was so funny, and you could see he really didn't care. He knew he was funny. Yeah. He doesn't, he doesn't smash him. You know? But it's he he's really got integrity, and, he's a great guy. So, I look to him a lot. I mean, Stanhope to me is is one of the kings of American comedy. And see, I think he's too angry. It feels to me like he's ranting Yeah. As opposed to focusing on But it's all there. The writing is, like, Bukowski esque. You know? The Definitely. There's so many layers to it. Who else do I like? I mean, Dave Patel, wonderful. Always has been. Is it oh, big Jay Oakerson, I think, is hilarious. But I I can't watch Jay because I'll I'll pick up on stuff he does, so I, like, intentionally don't watch him anymore. See, I I intentionally watch Yeah. Great comedians because I wanna at this point, I wanna pick up Mhmm. On what they're doing. Like, there were I went through, a, a couple months ago, I went through a a big Gerard Carmichael phase Yeah. Where because I watched the show Poor you. Poor you. No. No. His he he got the he got the royal reigns handed to him. They gave him the industry. I think that's right. Yeah. They gave him because he had the show. He had a show. Oh, he had a show. He did a special that he had notes on stage for. And then he had Bo Burnham directed the show that I got obsessed with. It's the show 8 that's on HBO. But I like the fact the way he is, like, almost seemed he has this persona where he's, like, grappling with difficult issues while on stage. Mhmm. So you you you you think he's actually trying to figure it out right in front of you, and that is, like, funny to me somehow. He laughs per minute and not laughs for every 5 seconds. So maybe that's what a lot of people don't like about him. I used to do that on stage at open mics where you'd just be talking stuff through, and you're like, maybe it is wrong. Maybe it is right. And it's really interesting to watch. Yeah. That inner struggle is a really interesting thing to watch. Yeah. Because then the audience has a hard time hating you Mhmm. Because you you haven't yet said anything they hate. And if you do, you're allowed to say, but wait. I'm just thinking about it. What's your problem with it? Right. And it it kinda I saw him do that a couple times in this special, and he won won people over that way. So, alright. Who who who's 1 or 2 more? Oh, boy. Louis c k other than Louis, yeah. He's a wonderful comic. He'll come back. Other great comics that I'll tell you who I saw that had a a great set. No. No. You don't have to compliment me that much. This James Gandolfini. Joe Matarese had some great stuff on, like, the me too stuff. Tracy Morgan makes me laugh. I saw Tracy Morgan, at a comedy club a few weeks ago. He goes, I'm a just come out and say this. Some of these me too b***hes are straight up liars, and I just thought it was so silly and so innocent. He doesn't even know what he's saying is, you know, frowned upon. He criticizes, writers who go up on with jokes. Yeah. He just goes up and does and I I think looking at his early stuff, he must have been writing, but now I think he just goes up and does stuff. And Tracy, I mean, he's he's very fun to watch. And he goes, you know they was just trying to get a part of a RoboCop movie or some s**t? And someone goes, hey, man, I'm here with my wife and my daughter. He goes, so f**king leave, then. I don't care about your millennial politically correct opinion. This is a f**king comedy club. I'm Tracy Morgan. I'm a verifiable Hollywood star. You better ask somebody, and the crowd is just staring at him because they had no idea that he was this old school Greg. I'm sure they recognized him from TV, but the comics were dying. We need more of that in comedy. That that f**king I don't give a s**t. That that's what it's all about, and I watched this the movement of, you know, these young upstart feminist comics, that I have been doing it for 4 or 5 months, and they're like, why don't I have this? Why don't I it's the straight white man is getting it's like, no, because you're not good. You're not funny, and you can watch them. It's like What about other crowd work guys, like let's say Judah Friedlander or Todd Barry? Yeah. I don't see I see Judah a bit. Todd Barry, really funny. They're they're lower energy guys, though. You know? I like the guys that and they're really I like the guys that really push. I mean, Judah's crowd work, but he's also got some really good one liners in there. I like the guys that really push, the guys that, you know, leave leave the middle of the road in the dust and just go way over the line. Alright. So so so, you're super high energy. I I don't think of myself as high energy. You're high you're super high energy. You're like, oh, oh my god. And, I feel like I'm a little lower energy, perhaps because of the Gerard Carmichael influence. How does one get to be a little higher energy? Somebody once went up after me, and they go, I'm not gonna be as high energy as your last comic. And I looked at the other 2 comics at the back, and I go, maybe if she wasn't f**king sitting in bed all morning eating Haagen Dazs, she'd have a bit of energy. It was like a bigger woman, but, you I I don't think you can try I've, like, curved my energy. I used to do act outs. I used to do a whole bunch of stuff, and now, like, I sit on the stool. Like, how how high energy can I be when I'm sitting on a stool? I think it's just the speed with which you're just tearing apart the crowd. Yeah. So okay. So so cut all the fat. If you wanna be if you wanna hit hard, cut all the fat. Anything that's like, oh, here's a moment where they can think, cut all the just go punch, punch, punch, punch, punch. I think it looks like high end. Like, if you see someone work in a speed bag, maybe that's what it's like. Instead of a heavy bag. You know? So maybe it's just a different form of pacing. The tempo's different. It's a beautiful thing, though, isn't it? Yeah. So and, look. It's it's, a pleasure always seeing you perform. I learn a lot each time, and so glad you came on the podcast. Hopefully, we'll we'll do this again. When we break our Guinness Book of World Records, Aaron should come on again. Yeah. He is a Guinness Book of World Record holder than this. I'm in real honor to have you. Yeah. Thank you. I gotta make sure I get that Guinness book of world record certificate. Yeah. Definitely do it. Send him an a email of the of the Guinness guy. There's a guy in New York. Right? New York. We got you. Yeah. We got you. I think I have I gotta pay $3 or $10 to do it. Oh, did see, did they tell you? I love a GoFundMe? Yeah. Do it on GoFundMe. And that's how you get a audience for a a pre audience for your documentary. Ah. So they could become aware of it, and they're already prepaying for it. Now can we just take 3 hours before we go, and will you explain Bitcoin to me? And that will be the end of the podcast, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks very much, sir. Thanks for having me. For joining us. What a treat. Next time on The James Altucher Show. Yeah. No. I wasn't okay. I wasn't okay, I think, for a long time afterwards, at least at some level. And it was stressing me out too, trying to find a new place to live every single time, but I felt like I had to do it or else, I don't know, I felt this very negative feeling towards the idea of moving into an apartment. Well, because if you move into an apartment and you're not having to worry about moving to the next apartment, then you actually have to sit alone and still with yourself. And if you have to be still with yourself, then you have to address the things that you're running from or that are haunting you or even mainly your fear of being alone. Hey. I am so glad you listened to this episode. I hope you enjoyed it as well. Please take a moment to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever it is you get your podcast. It will only take you a second, but it will help other people discover the podcast, and my goal is to share this great content with as many people as possible. To see the show notes, just head on over to jamesaltitcher.com/podcast. While you are there, you can join my free insider's list to get notified when I post a new podcast. Every day, I also share my best and most controversial ideas. You won't get this stuff anywhere else. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you next time.