378 - James Altucher: Cal Fussman Asks Me About Experimenting with Minimalism & Lifestyle

Transcript

This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is the James Altiger Show on the choose yourself network. Today on the James Altiger Show. I'm like the Dennis Rodman of ping pong. Right? So I figured out in this sport that I can't beat these top players. So I have to find another thing within the sport. So I became the entertainer of the sport. I think this is an important lesson for anybody interested in anything, is to look at all the possibilities. It's not just one goal or else you're unhappy. You've represented the US in North Korea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can I have a lot of footage from from North Korea? Every time he made a point, people started clapping like crazy. Then I thought I'm gonna make this more fun. I'm gonna see where I can take this because I'm not gonna win this match. So then I said, okay. I'm gonna try to engage the crowd. I look up at the crowd, and I just start smiling. It was like a chain reaction. I started smiling. They started laughing. I wanted to try to get the real expression because that you can't fake. There's nothing in the manual that says if that black guy smiles, you have to laugh. Right? That's something that's genuine, so that's what I wanted to get. Then after the match, you know, you have to shake hands. Right? We're walking towards each other. You can tell this guy is scared or nervous, and he barely touches my hand. So I grabbed him, pulled him in, and gave him a huge hug. Then I held him, and then he goes into a smile. And that was the other expression I wanted to get. Right? He's smiling. That, you can't make up. What was the crowd doing? The crowd was cheering. They were cheering because both governments hate each other. And here, me and this North Korean guy were bonding over a ping pong. If you're hiring, pay attention. Finding great talent can be tough. Thanks to ZipRecruiter, it's now much easier. With ZipRecruiter, you can post your job to 100 plus job sites with just one click. Find out today why ZipRecruiter has been used by businesses of all sizes to find the most qualified job candidates with immediate results. And right now, my listeners can post jobs on ZipRecruiter for free. That's right. Free. Just go to ziprecruiter.com/james. That's ziprecruiter.com/james. One more time to try it for free, go to ziprecruiter.com/james. If you could take a vacation anywhere in the world, where would you go? Princess Cruises sails to over 360 destinations worldwide, and there's never been a better time to plan a vacation with Princess Cruises than during their most popular sail of the year, and it's called Sip and Sail. Book a balcony or above and get the best all inclusive beverage package at sea for free. Just visit princess.com/james for details. That's princess.com/james. Alright. I'm here with Wally Green. Wally, how's it going? I'm good. Good. Wally, I've been taking ping pong lessons from you and figuring out your story all along the way. You're one of the the best players of ping pong in the US. You've represented the US in North Korea. And, how many countries have you represented the US in? All of them. All of them? So, like, a 190 countries. And Almost all of them. Almost all. And you're a cofounder of the ping pong club Spin, and you're also the creator of the documentary The Tables, which is, like, getting awards all over the place and touring all around. You were just came back from palms the Palm Springs Film Festival. What's the next film festival you're gonna be in? It's called Walla Walla, almost like my name. It's in It's in, Washington state. Okay. And and, you know, as we've been playing, you've been giving me lessons, and two things occurred to me. One is I've been playing ping pong for 40 years. Like, I had a table when I was 9 years old in my basement, and I realized play 40 years later playing ping pong with you that a 100% of the things I've been doing for for all of these decades is wrong. A 100% of them. Everything you've taught me is completely different than how I start how I've been playing for decades. The other thing is you have a pretty intense story. Like, when you were 13, you weren't playing ping pong. What what were you up to at the age of 13? When I was 13, I was in a gang. So, I owned 6 guns at 13. You owned 6 guns? Yeah. What kind of guns? I had 2 3 eighties. I had a, a very old school pistol that we we actually found this, like, in our hood and stuff and a few more stuff. We had a sort of shotgun. What else? And that was pretty much it. We had a couple other stuff. So so a 380, what's that? What is 3 eighty is is a kind of small it's very small kind of pistol. Uh-huh. You know, it's a it can be as a semiautomatic, but it's, pretty small. What does semiautomatic mean? Like, you don't have to, Well, you can kinda, like, you don't have to, like, click, click, click like this. You can kinda hold. Yeah. And it'll just keep firing? Yeah. And do you ever have a chance to use any of the guns? We we had a lot of, you know, fights and got into a lot of stuff, but you never really stay around to find out if you hit somebody or stuff like that. Like, people don't I mean, you shouldn't stay around. Now were you being shot at also? I've gotten hit twice, actually. Where were you at? Very lucky in my calf and across my knee in 2 separate occasions. I've been I've had guns, you know, pulled out on me numerous occasions. But yeah. I mean What what was happening? Like, were you when you say a gang, like, was it selling were you selling drugs? Were you Oh, no. Actually actually, I never got into selling drugs. I grew up in Marble Projects, and, there were, like, 3 different gangs. I mean, some people were selling drugs, but it was more of a protection thing. So if you didn't join 1 I mean, you had to join something. Right? Because if you didn't join something, you got beat up by all 3. Mhmm. So you'd picked 1 and, you know, and everybody just fought against everybody. Sometimes it's just meaningless nonsense. Why are you looking at me? I mean, the one time I almost got shot, it was just based off, yo, why are you looking at me? Or why are you grilling me? So it's kind of always kinda stupid stuff like that. And how did you get out of that? Oh, man. Like like, how many how many people I mean, it's kind of the classic story. It's almost a cliche, but how many people did you grow up with that are no longer here? All of them. All of them. Yes. I don't have any I don't have any friends from when I was younger. Yeah. All my friends are new friends, mostly coming from ping pong. Yeah. Yeah. Almost Yeah. Pretty much all of them. And then some and music. Like, most of my friends are from ping pong and music. So so how did you get out of that lifestyle? When I was about 19 years old, I met a I I got interested in ping pong because I went to this pool hall, and I just this is funny because I had just stolen a really expensive pool stick. I didn't really steal it. Well, sorta kinda stole it. I bought a pool stick. We're not calling the police, so it's okay. Yeah. I bought a pool stick that was at a cheaper price. And then I wanted to take it back. And when I went to take it back, I saw a pool stick in a bin. And I say the guy said I could change it for any one of the pools that was in there. Apparently, someone picked up a really expensive one and put it in that bin. I don't know why, but I saw it, and I saw the price tag. So I took the tag off of it, and I say, hey. I want this one. And the guy was like, alright. So, anyway, I had this pool stick. I thought I was good. I went to a pool hall. I started to try to, you know, make a little money to try to hustle, and I got hustled. Got angry, broke the pool stick, and then there was some Asian dudes playing ping pong at the on the ping pong table in the pool hall. And then I was so angry, and I was, like, yo, I wanna hit the ball. And they were, like, can you play? I was, like, not really. So they gave me the racket, and the first shot I hit on the table because I used to play also tennis. I I played a lot of sports. And, they was like, oh my god. You can play. I was like, no. It was just one hit. And it was like, well, there's a ping pong club on 50th Street and 11th Avenue. And if you're interested, you can go check it out. So I went there. I checked out this ping pong club. And, you know, I would go there. Nobody would play with me because I sucked. And, this guy came along, and he was like, hey, do you have a partner? And I was like, no. And he was like, you know what? I can pay you $20, you know, every time we play. You know, I I can pay you $20 if you become my, like, you know, partner all the time. And I was like, alright. But I can't really play. You know, I can hit the ball on the table. He was like, that's all I need. Alright. Cool. So I used to hang out with this guy and just play. You know, we'd meet him and he'd pay me $20. And it was a hustle because I didn't have any money at the time. So, you know, we just play whatever. And then, we would talk about my life a little bit. And, I was always honest. Like like, I never hit stuff. I was always straightforward. He's like, you know, so what do you do? I was like, yeah. I'm in a gang. You know, I'll talk about my family. And I'm like, my gang's a family. Blah blah blah. And, for him, it was like a movie or a TV show. So, like, if you never lived that life or you never on that site understand that, like, nobody can understand how a kid has a gun 6 guns at 13. Right? But if you go live in the hood and you'd stay there for some time, then you understand how you I mean, it's not that difficult. So for him, it was like a TV show. Then one day, I went to the club and, I had been down to pick up something and a gun fell out of my bag in front of him. And, his eyes were so funny. Like, I don't know if he got scared or worried, but he he he he just looked and he was like and normally, when that happens, people will run away from you. Right? They'll say, oh, this kid's crazy. I'm I'm out of here. But now, he just became closer to me, and and, you know, he tried to, like, you know like he never told one thing that was cool about him, he never told me don't do this, don't do that. He was like, you know, you should be careful, you know, it's not safe, you know, stuff stuff like that. And then, he saw that I was like really interested in the ping pong thing, so So he said, hey, you know what? I'm gonna pay for you to go to Germany to go learn ping pong. So that was the first time I left the country. How did he know where to send you in Germany? Well, apparently, this guy, he had a connection in Germany. Like, he he he's from Israel, but he's been playing ping pong for a long time. So obviously, this guy could play or he played at one time when he was a kid. So he had this connection in Germany in Hanover. And it's a school, like, where all the kid athletes, like, they go and they live there. So he called. He arranged everything, you know, sent me to Germany, paid the trip, paid where I stay. Wow. I had money for food. Like, yeah. It was it was crazy. And how long were you in Germany? I went there originally first for 3 months. But prior to that, I went to a ping pong tournament in America, and, and it was the US Open. And I wasn't playing at the time. I just went to go check it out. And, I met some people from Germany. It's actually some famous players. Even till today, they're really famous. And I met them there because I was always, you know, I was interested. I was talking to everybody. Anybody who is somebody, I was like, yo, you're a team. So you were feeling the passion for ping pong? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was interested. So I started talking to all the pros. And, they were like, if you ever come to Germany, you should call us up and let us know. So I did that. I was like, yo, I'm in Germany. And then, one of my friends' name is Thomas Kyneth. He used to play for German national team. He was like, oh, man. You have to come to, a place called Huygenshausen. It's on top of Koblenz. So I was like, alright. So I went there, and I just lived there for, like, another 2 months. Yeah. So it's pretty it's pretty interesting. So by the time you got back, were you, like, pretty good? Yeah. Because I play that's all I did. I didn't do anything else. I just played ping pong every day. All that. And then when I was in the when I was in the town where my friend was, that was very high level ping pong. Like, I was the worst by far. Like, everybody was because this was like the Bundesliga. So when they think about Bundesliga, like soccer or football, they call Bundesliga. Bundesliga is the highest league. So I practice with the highest league and the winners of Champions League. So Champions League is all the country's top leagues play a competition to see who's the best in the world. Yeah. So I practice with this team. Yeah. I mean, there's a saying that you're the average of the 5 people you spend time with, and so you were spending time with all the best players Yeah. In the world. So you were if you had just been playing, like, with friends or whatever in the park, then you wouldn't have gotten good. But here you are, you cut you put yourself in an environment, whether it's through luck because of this guy or, you know, through skill because he saw your your interest and your your beginning skill. You put yourself in an environment where everybody was, like, great, and that kind of probably really propelled you quickly to to greatness. Right. So when did you start playing in tournaments? Oh, so it was weird. So, like, normally, you go from this junior stage. So I never had that junior stage. So I went to Germany, learned table tennis, thought I was good enough. The next year, I played my first pro tour in in in, oh, actually in Germany. I played in Germany, and I got destroyed badly. It was Did that depress you? No. Because I didn't I didn't have a realization for the sport yet and how difficult it was. So I'm I was really nervous. So for me, the reason why I lost wasn't because the guy was better. Although the guy was way better, it was because I was super nervous. And so because I had that in my head, I didn't get the I didn't get, like, depressed about it. I just wanted to, all I gotta do is not be nervous, and I can win. And and how did you eventually overcome that nervousness? I had to set I had to set goals for myself. So I think, like, in any sport or with any, competitors, you have to have goals that make sense. Right? If you're like, for me, I was new in the pro level of the sport. I can't say I was saying, oh, I wanna beat this guy. I wanna win this match. And that was the wrong approach. Right? Because when you say that, that means that you don't respect the sport. You don't respect the player. How are you gonna beat the guy who started at 3 years old when you started at 19? Right? It's highly unlikely. So it wasn't until I started setting goals. I was like, alright. You know what? I'm not gonna say I wanna beat this player. I'm gonna say, what? The game is 11 points. I'm gonna I wanna get 5 points every game. Even if I lose 4 0, if I get 5 points every game, then that's a win for me. Right? Because this guy started at 3, I started at 19, it's a different level. So I started that way. Then after that, I would say, alright. Once I was able to get 5 points in every game, then I would say, okay. I just need to take one game. If I take one game out of 4 games, then for me, I win. So it's a mental thing. So I I set my brain to be the winner with goals that I set. If I was able to complete a goal that I made, then in my mind, I won the match even though I didn't win the match. And and and that's how I did it. So I went from making 5 points every game to taking one game than to trying to take more than one game. So I never ever thought about, I wanna try to win the match. And if I did win the match, then I was good. But if I didn't, at least I conquered my goal, and I was happy from that. So the first time you won a match at, like, this pro level, were you, like, jumping on top of the table? Like, how did it feel? Well, actually, in the in the international pro level, I never won a match. I've got well, I never I've came so close. And then there's another mental thing too. So when you're winning, the first thing you do is, like you said, I can win this match. You lost the match. Once you say that, you've already lost. Mhmm. You can you can so you you because what happens is, when you mentally say, I can win this match, then mentally, you think that at this point in this time, you're better, but you're not better. The guy is better than you by far. So instead of saying you can win this match, you have to say, I need to win this point. Right? So now you focus on one point and not the whole match. So I've lost a few matches like that. Mhmm. Like, few matches just by saying, yeah. Because, you know, you get happy. Right? You're always losing. So finally, you can beat this guy and you get happy. How can I win this match? But, no, you can't win the match because you have to win the point first. So so two lessons from that is, like, you can't you can't celebrate before you really finish the work. Yeah. Exactly. And and the other thing is is kind of focusing on the moment, because any sport is about how you're performing right then at that point. It's not about kind of the whole strategic match or whatever. You gotta focus on, like, being your best Right. So you could keep winning that point. Right. I mean, I'd I'd I'd give you a perfect example of that. In 2,002 so the the first tournament was Germany. Next tournament was in in Rotterdam. Right? And, I played I was playing I played this guy from England, killed me. No chance. Loss. Then I played another guy from Russia, killed me. No chance. Loss. Right? Then I had to play a guy from China. Right? Chinese national team. China is the best by far in the world, and and for years, they've always been the best. But, so I played this guy from China. I still remember his name till today because I'll never forget his name, Chen Junji. So I played this guy, and, first game, he kills me. 2nd game, kills me. And so, my German friend was coaching me. Right? And my German friend, you know, he learned a lot of kinda like ghetto from me because I teach him all this ghetto talk, whatever. So he was like, come on, Whatley. Come on. You have to fight. You must fight. He said, you must fight. Come on. Boom. Boom. Boom. He's doing this. Right? So then okay. So I go back. Right? And, I serve a long ball to this Chinese guy, and he misses the ball. Right? And then How did he miss it? Oh, it was ace. It was fast. It was ace. Like, he he he didn't even touch it. It was gone. And then when he when when I did that, you know, I went I saw one point from the Chinese team, and I went, Yes. So loud. Like, I yelled so loud where everybody was like, What the hell? So this made this guy nervous. Right? Because he has never seen anybody like me play ping pong. And at that, I'm yelling to the top of my lungs every time I make a point. So to make a long story short, there was a point. The score was 32. Right? So I took 2 games off a Chinese national team guy. I've only been playing a year pro. Right? Not because I was better, because mentally in his head. So that's another thing about ping pong. It's 90% mental. So I'm in this guy's head, and it's 32, was it 3296 for me. 3296 for an American guy against Chinese. It's crazy. And, so the the Chinese coach was so angry. So the Chinese coach called time out. If you get a Chinese coach to call time out, that's like you've won right there. I mean, that's that's insane. That guy, your your opponent must have been scared because He was scared to death. What would be the punishment if he I mean If he lost to me? Yeah. It's a wrap. It's finished for him. He he lost to some black dude from America who'll be playing table tennis 1 year. Like, no. It it's done. So my my German friend speaks Chinese, and the Chinese coach was yelling at him. Are you crazy? I've never seen this guy from anywhere. If you lose to this guy, you will never play this sport in this country ever again. You're done. And so what I did wrong was, as I said before, I said in my mind, oh, man. I can win this match. Let me calm down. And then I lost. I lost straight points. Oh, no. And and not because he was better than me. I mean, he was much better than me, but because in my brain, I thought I could really win against a player that was so high. And instead of continuing what I was doing, I tried to calm down so that I could focus on winning. When you when you're playing a game like that or or at a high level Yeah. How much do you think is psychological as opposed to skill based? 90% psychological. It's so I mean, I've seen Do you guys true for everything? Pretty much. I mean, if you can get in someone's head, doesn't matter how good they are. I mean and you and and you can tell. Like, it's it's happened in football where players have gotten other players' head, made them angry, and gotten them kicked out of the match. That's all planned. It's all psychological. Yeah. So, like, you you told me once, you've played a lot of different sports, like, basketball. I think you said wrestling. Wrestling. Yeah. Tennis, ping pong. You mentioned a bunch of other sports, and you said ping pong is the hardest. Yeah. By far. I've told that quote to a couple people, and nobody believes it because, for instance, why would ping pong be harder than tennis? You see, when they don't believe you, tell them to come play me a match, and I'll use my cell phone. Right. And when I beat them with my cell phone, they'll understand. You'll use your cell phone as the bracket. Yes. Exactly. Then when I beat them with this see, that's that's why I started playing with my cell phone a lot. I actually started I used to do stuff with the Tennis Channel. The Tennis Channel open. Uh-huh. So I used to go there to Las Vegas and and do some ping pong exhibitions. And I always that's why I started playing with a cell phone because someone didn't show up. And I went I need to do something, so I came up playing with a cell phone. And all these tennis players came, and they thought they were bad, and I would beat them with my cell phone. Now if someone can beat you with their cell phone, then that sport's gotta be really difficult if you thought you were really that good. Right? Right. Yeah. So it's it's like, for me, it's it's the most difficult sport because it's so complicated. Nobody understands what goes on. Nobody has no idea. In tennis, if I've never played tennis and I look at it, I understand what's going on. The guy throws the ball up, the guy serves it, they play rally rally rally, you can see what's going on. But in ping pong, you have no idea. You have no clue. I can make a serve. In the middle of serving, I can change the spin, and you won't even know what's going on. So most people the reason why people don't think it's difficult because they don't understand what's going on. All they see is a ball going back and forth. That's all they see. But they don't know when like, for example, yesterday, I was playing at my club spin. And, it's I wish I could show you this. It's the funniest shot ever. So I'm playing against this guy with my mini paddle. Right? And he's good. He's a tournament player with my mini paddle. And, he's mini paddle, just to be clear, is, like, assume, like, 1 fourth a size of the regular paddle. And so, he plays the ball on the table. It goes short, and I'm watching his body. And what I do is I put my racket under the table. I move it a certain direction. Right? And then I change the direction and throw it up. So now the ball is spinning. Right? But you don't know where the ball is spinning. He just sees it coming this way. He moves this way. The ball hits, goes the opposite direction. He's, like, over there. So, like, most people, like, you don't have any idea of what's going on in the sport. And that's why it's a difficult sport for TV, because people can't understand what's happening. Like, you you nobody knows what's So much is, like, hidden. Like, when you serve, like, you're hiding behind that your your body there while you Well, actually actually, you don't hide the serve. I mean, you can serve, but there's so much things going on with your wrist. You know, there's so many different ways to serve. There's, you know, tennis has pretty much 3 serves, pretty much. I mean, you have your flat serve, you have your sidespin this way. And if you're and and if you're, right hand, you have a sidespin that way. So there's only 3 spins you can produce on a serve. Right? Topspin, sidespin topspin, left side, you have topspin right. And that's it. Then you're done for tennis. In table tennis, right, you have underspin, you have bottom spin. I mean, you have underspin, you have topspin, you have sidespin underspin, sidespin left underspins, right, sidespin right underspin, the same with topspin. Then you have multiple ways to serve the same service. I can serve underspin about 4 different ways. The same underspin serve, I can do 4 different motions and serve the same serve. So I might serve underspin to you, like, in one way, and then I'll serve the same one that's sent to you in another way, you'll think it's another serve. And and and the key is for your opponent, they have to know what you're doing Right. To respond or else like, if you're hitting something, and this gets complicated, I guess, but if you're hitting, like, an underspin, and I think you did a normal topspin, so it'll go just once I hit it, it'll go straight down into the net. Exactly. Exactly. So you have to actually know So there's, like, microseconds to plan. Right. Right. And you have to see exactly what I'm doing. You have to see the contact of the ball. You know, where's where's tennis? I see the contact of the ball. It's so easy to see. I just need to be in the right position at the right time to play the ball back in tennis. Right? But here, you can you can be right at the table. It doesn't matter because the ball might hit the table, take off another direction. So how did you how did you go from that to like, obviously, you've you've played for the US, in lots of different countries. How did you end up playing in North Korea? I know you did that fairly recently. Yeah. So, so, you know, I came up with this this idea that, okay, everybody in the world's been playing since 3. I started at 19. Do you ever feel, like, guilt like, bad about that? Like No. Like, regret? No. I love it. Oh, I mean, in in a case you know, sometimes I say, I wish I would've started the sport younger, but I used to make fun of people playing ping pong. So when I was on the football team, they had it in my high school. Uh-huh. And I used to just laugh and abuse these kids all the time. So yeah. But, no. I I I mean, sometimes I wish I would've played younger because then I would be much better. Right. You know? And I would've had that that junior circuit time. Yeah. You know? But it's alright. I don't mind. So North Korea? Yeah. So so I figured out in this sport that, I can't beat these top players. Right? It's it's so I have to find another thing within the sport. So I became the entertainer of the sport. Right? And by the way, I think this is and I'm sorry to interrupt. I think this is an important lesson that you obviously have a huge passion for something. Yeah. You're you're great, one of the best out there, but it's not like you there's only one goal. It's not like you have to be the ping pong world champion. Right. You've ended up doing a documentary on ping pong, hip hop songs on ping pong. You started what's an incredible, maybe the best in the world now, club for ping pong that's expanding all over the country. You do so many things relating to ping pong. And like you say, you've you've traveled all around the world representing the US for ping pong. So I think this is an important lesson for anybody interested in anything, is to look at all the possibilities. There's not just one goal or else you're unhappy. Like, there's lots of ways to be happy doing the thing you love as opposed to being you know, having only one goal to be happy. Right. Right. Oh, and, one thing, about the documentary. I'm not the creator. We gotta give props to the director Okay. John Bunting, amazing director. But, yeah. About about North Korea, so I figured out, you know what? I'm a black dude. I'm a black hip hop dude who I'm like the Dennis Rodman of Ping Pong. Right? And, those players might be better than me, but they're not cooler than me. I'm probably the coolest ping pong player in the world. So I figured that out because very humble. Well well, I'll tell you why. I figured that out because all the top players in the world will say will always come to me, yo, Wally. What's up? Because they see my videos on YouTube. So they go, yo. What's up? So even, like, the Chinese, the Chinese don't talk to nobody. When they see me, they go, hey, Wally. Even they can't even speak English. They give me that little nod and a smile. So then I was like, oh, you know what? Alright. I gotta change this around. I'm not trying to win anymore. I'm just trying to set a trend in making this sport cool. So I'm gonna do everything that it takes to make this sport cool. If I play a match, I'm gonna do funny stuff. I'm gonna be funny. I'm gonna try to make great shots even if it's just one amazing shot, you know, do stuff like that. So, every year I try to do something really big. And, I saw there was a tournament, a world tournament on the ITTF website, which is the International Table Tennis Federation. It's the body which governs table tennis around the world. And it was a North Korean pro tour. Right? And I was like, wow. It's a North Korean pro tour. And I read about Dennis Rodman going to North Korea. And I was like, oh my God, I gotta go to North Korea. I was like, I there's no way I don't go. I was I was like, I have to go to this tournament. I have to. And so I researched it a little bit, and, I watched all the documentaries about North Korea. That's when I got interested in North Korea. I watched all the documentaries. They were, of course, all bad. They were all terrible. And I was like, oh, my God. I have to go to North Korea. So I called the US team and I said, hey, can you guys sign me up? And they were like, What? I was like, Yeah, I wanna go to North Korea. And they were like, we don't think that's a good idea. And I was like, I'm not asking. I'm telling you that I wanna go to North Korea. And everybody was telling and everybody told me, everybody was like, Don't go to North Korea. Don't go to North Korea. It's not safe. It's not safe. It's so dangerous. I said, I don't care if it's dangerous. I grew up in a project. I'm not afraid to go to North Korea. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? They capture me and torture me? I'm like, I'm not worried about that. And I believe, like, if no matter where you go, if you're smart, you pay attention to your surroundings, you don't get into trouble. You don't get caught up in stuff. Unless you're doing something you're not supposed to or you're not paying attention. You're like like this kid who just died. He he was he was caught he was in prison for a year, but he was, like, messing with their flag and picture. Listen. Listen. One thing about that, and I was just talking about this too, you know, I feel bad he died. But first of all, any country you go to, it doesn't even matter if it's not North Korea. You need to research the rules and the regulations of that country. If you're a westerner if you're a westerner, you're being recorded 24 of 7. Nowhere you go, there's not a camera. There might be even maybe a tap in your room. You don't know that. But you're being recorded everywhere you go. So to go and try to steal something on the basis that you wanna get into a fraternity, that's kinda stupid. Yeah. So So so it's not like it's not like he deserved what he had, but he just wasn't being smart about his surroundings and circumstances and so on. It's hard to put it because you don't wanna say he was asking for it because, obviously, he wasn't, but he was definitely taking the risk was gonna happen. He didn't he didn't really understand how serious the North Korean culture is. Do you think the US I mean, this is not even, like, really the a topic I usually talk about. Do you think the US should take any kind of reaction? They really they really can't do anything, man. I mean, it the laws of a country like, if someone comes to our country from another country and they violate the laws, they will be prosecuted here. It's the same thing with every other country. Every country has their level of what their law is. You can't say it's wrong. You can't say it's right. It's their level of what their law is. And if you violate it, you have to be prepared. I mean, I I I I've experienced this. In Japan, I got arrested for 3 I was held for 3 months. You were what? You were held for 3 you didn't tell me this. You were held for 3 months in Japan? Yeah, man. What happened? 0.76 grams of weed. And it takes 3 months. Which is not even enough to roll a half a joint. I was with some friends of mine who were rappers, and, they all we were hanging out, you know, having a scythe, you know, some freestyle, and cops came, most of them ran away, and I wouldn't tell the cops who they were. And I was held for 3 months, and I never knew that weed was so serious in Japan. I never knew that. Nobody never told me this. And ever since then, I research every country before I go to. So wait. Being held in jail in Japan, was that 2 months. Do they have, like, crappy jails, or what are their jails like? Well, like, for me, it was bad. It was my situation was kinda equal to what they would say solitary confinement. And it's so funny because, like, recently, I've been watching a lot of, like, the baddest jails in the world or whatever. And so solitary confinement is you being in a cell by yourself 23 hours a day, and that was me for 3 months in Japan. Yeah. And so mentally, how do you get through that? In the beginning, it was really tough, but, I wrote a lot. So I I wrote a diary of every day because it's a Japanese system is very, very, very intense. It is you get interrogated every day because they wanna get more information out of you, then they send you to a prosecutor. You know, they can hold you 24 days without conviction. It takes 1 month to get trial date. And then the craziest thing the the hardest time being arrested there, the hardest time comes when you go to court. It's a trial. It's a real trial. It's it's it's like, you know, like you're John Gotti, and it's like it's crazy. So you go to court. They give you your sentence first. So they tell you, you're gonna get 3 years, then you have to go back to the cell, and you stayed it for a month to get the a decision. Then you go back for the actual decision. So they give you a sentence first, then you wait 30 days, go back and get a decision. You you know what that's like? So they're telling you, you're getting 3 years. You may not get it or you may get it, but now you gotta sit 30 more days knowing the sentence that you're getting. So that's, like, super intense. It's so stressful. It's like you can't believe it. But I'm pretty strong. Like I said, I grew up in the projects. You know, I think if it was anybody else, like, they would've definitely, like, like, flipped out. But, you know And so you went back after 30 days? Well, I went back after 30 days, and, I put on a good act, though. Like, I I forced to cry, so I think I think I I should've got, like, a Emmy award or something for that. I put on the best you should see. I was crying. I was like, I want to do it again. I couldn't speak. It was so funny. It was and, the the judge, you'll oh, you also have to write a letter. It's called a reflection letter. It's so stupid. You have to write a reflection letter, and you have to say what you did, why you did it, why you won't do it again. Right? Now as Americans, we don't wanna never put blame on ourselves. We never wanna say, oh, I did that because I was bad. No. We say, well, I smoked that weed because, you know, I just wanted to hang out. We're hanging out. Right? And so so so they said, what do you do? Well, I had 0.76 grams of weed on my possession. Why did you have it? Because me and my friends were just hanging out. Why you won't do it again? Because I don't get trouble. That's the wrong answer. The correct answer is, what did you have? I had 0.76 grams of marijuana. Why did you have it? Now listen to this. I had it because my will was weak to do the right thing. And that's what you had to write. Like, it's the dumbest. I don't even talk like that. But I had to write that. Like, it it's so serious. So I had to write, you have to make yourself look bad in order for the judge to feel like you're sorry. Yeah. So, I mean, it it it was it was really hard. And then and then when you're in court, you have to look at the judge all the time. They tell you, you must look straight at the judge. Like, it was intense. But I got lucky, and, my lawyer was like, you're gonna get deported. And I was like, oh my god. I'm gonna get deported. This is gonna be crazy. I'm gonna kick off US team. Everybody's gonna know. And and and, I didn't get deported. I got really lucky. They they they just gave me what they call shikoyo in Japanese. It's like 3 year probation, which is pretty much meaningless because I don't live in Japan. But now if I wanna go to Japan, I have to make a visa to go there. Let's stop to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Are you hiring? Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Don't answer yet. Do you know where to post your job to find the best candidates? Finding great talent can be tough. I know this because I've managed probably about 30 companies. 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That's www.jamesfreebooks.com. Do it today because I know there's only a limited supply, but do it today while I still have some available. Thanks. So after this experience, even after that, you still were willing to go to North Korea Yeah. I I really wanted a thousand times worse. Yes. Yes. But the reason I wanted to go to North Korea so I researched every I saw every documentary there is about North Korea, and and and and then and I thought, you know, I wanna be a part of living history. Like, it's how many people can say that they've done their living history? No. It's very difficult. So I wanna be public living history. So in 1972 is a big historical moment for America. It's called the China diplomacy where America established relations with China. So I wanna do the same thing, and I wanted to establish my own relation and make my own historical moment. And just to be clear, on 1972, the way they established that diplomacy was they sent the ping pong team. Yeah. It was ping pong diplomacy right through ping pong. So I wanted to do the same thing. So I forced them to sign me up, and I went to I went to North Korea, and it was Were the North Koreans good? Oh, yeah. North North Koreans are as good as Chinese. But the problem is you don't see them often because they're not allowed to play a lot of west well, they don't play in any western tournaments except if it's world championships. So so no North Koreans play Olympics, world champions world championships, and China Open. And the reason they play China Open is because they have this connection with China. So if anybody tries to stay there, they're gonna get sent back. Right. Right? But but they'll never play, like, US Open or German Open. No. You've never seen no I have never seen North North Koreans in that tournament. So did you play North Koreans while you were there? Yeah. So I I got the the pleasure of actually, when when I first got there, because I was the only Westerner in this competition, there was no Westerners. Like, when I saw the sign up sheet, I looked. There were, like, 3 countries. I was the only Westerner. And then I was getting a little nervous because I didn't I thought some Westerners would be there, but there were none. 0. So, when I got there, I needed to warm up. I have nobody to warm up with, so they took me to where the North Korean the North Korean team guys were, and they all looked at me when I walked in. They were like they were probably saying, what the f? They would really? And one of them were forced to practice with me. And it was pretty cool. You know, I took a picture with them, you know, and we practiced. And then I got to play a North Korea. I played I played 2 Chinese and one North Korean. And, when I played the North Korean guy, it was really crazy because they had the fans, 2,500 people in an arena, and all the fans are North Korean. There's nobody rooting for you, just North Korean. And so, you know, we start to play, and I'm feeling good. You know? I'm I'm like, you know, my hair is looking good. I'm I'm ready. You know? And I'm the only Westerner here, so I gotta step up my game. So I start playing this guy, and I take the lead quickly. Like, it was crazy. I was putting a beating on him, but probably because he was nervous nervous about maybe 2 things. I mean, it or one thing, if he lost to me, it's not gonna be good for him. Yeah. So so he was probably super nervous. Anyway, I'm taking the lead, and I noticed every time I won a point, the sound was like this. Like, it was weird, man. It was, like, surreal. Like, every time I won a point, it was like, right? And I was like, and I was just like, so then he won his first point. I think I was up 40. He won his first point and then he went, hey. Wow. And I looked and I was like, oh my God. Alright. This is weird. Then he won the next point and he went louder. Hey. And then people every time he made a point, people started clapping like crazy. So then I started be I started becoming really uncomfortable because I couldn't concentrate. It was just so loud. And and I said, okay. I'm not trying to win this anymore, because I was filming. I was filming, actually. And I say, you know They let you film? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can I have a lot of footage from from North Korea? Why did they let you film? I would think that would be something that would be Well, you can film anywhere they bring you. I mean, you can't walk in with a big old camera. I mean, I'm filming from my iPhone. Right. And so then I thought about, okay. I'm filming. I'm gonna make this more fun. I'm gonna see where I can take this because I'm not gonna win this match. It's not happening. I can't concentrate. And and and and it's too funny. So then I said, okay. In my mind, I'm gonna try to engage the crowd and see, because it's 2,500 people. They're all looking at me because I'm the only black forget about being the only black. I'm the only westerner, but I am a black dude. The only black dude they've ever seen is Dennis Rodman, and we have the same here. So they in their mind, they probably thought, wow, Dennis Rodman plays ping pong too. I'm sure that's what they were thinking. So anyway, we start playing again. Right. And, they started going louder. And so I look up at the crowd, right. And I just start smiling because it's so funny. I just started smiling. And then the whole crowd, it was like a chain reaction. I started smiling. They started laughing. And I was like, oh, that's cool. So then we start playing again. And then I look up for gas, I smile. They started laughing again. So every time I smiled, they started laughing, and it was like a kind of happy thing. Right? So for me, it was like I wanted to try to get the real expression, the real feeling from real North Korea, because you're never gonna meet real North Koreans. You'll never be around them. It's very difficult. So I wanted to get a real feeling. Like, that you can't fake. Right? There's there's nothing in the manual that says if that black guy smiles, you have to laugh. Right? That's something that's genuine. So that's what I wanted to get. Then, so the guy won the match, of course. And then, after the match, you know, you have to shake hands. Right? And, he he we're walking towards each other. You could tell this guy is like I don't know if he's scared or nervous. I don't know what's wrong, but his face was looking it was definitely looking a little strange. So he comes to shake my hand. And, you know, when you shake your hand, you put your hand out like a man. And he comes to me. He's like, Billy touches my hand. So I said, okay. I got this guy. So I grabbed him by his arm, pulled him in, and gave him a huge hug. And I held him and his so my camera's facing that way. And his face goes, like, scared, like shocked because he's definitely never been hugged by a black guy. Probably never been hugged by a Westerner, period. So the guy's face is shocked, and then he goes into a smile. And that was the other expression I wanted to get. Right? He's smiling. That you can't make up. Right? Now, I don't know if something else How's the crowd doing? The crowd was cheering. Like like, they were they were cheering because, you know, it was here you have this American guy, you know, both governments hate each other. And here me and this North Korean guy were bonding over a ping pong. And it was so cool, man. People, like everybody was just happy, and that was what I wanted. And that was the main reason why I went to North Korea. You know? That was the main reason. You said something earlier too, like, you like to do one big thing in here. Yeah. And so it's like there's a couple of things. One is you've mentioned before you're into hip hop, and I've seen you've you you, you know, you've you've made songs, and you've done other things. It's like you've combined these two interests to become essentially the best in the world at the intersection. Right. And then you've used that to create to these other great experiences for yourself, like going to North Korea or representing the US all over the place or starting the club, Spin. How did, how did Spin come around? Because that was clearly your big thing one one of these years. Right. Right. So so we, we we used to have a party. And well, even even before that, there there were 3 guys. They were filmmakers. They were documentary filmmakers. And, they love ping pong. Right? They had this loft apartment in Tribeca with 1 ping pong table. It was the first furniture they they ever got. They came to a tournament, right, where I was playing at, and they were playing this tournament. And, I was having an issue with a particular player's coach who's just being really annoying. And, even though, you know, I've changed my life, but you you the the the gangster never leaves out of you. It's always there. You just have to control it. So, anyway, this guy is just being really obnoxious, and then I said something to this effect. I was like, if you don't shut the f off if you don't shut the f up, I'm gonna punch you in the face for 10 minutes. Yeah. And that that that those guys heard it, and it was like, oh my god. This guy's crazy. Who is this guy? So they came up to me, and he was like, yeah. You know, we're filmmakers, blah blah blah. We have this loft in Tribeca. You should come hang out with us. And I was like, alright. Cool. So I went, you know, hung out with them. They had a huge loft, ping pong table. I would play with them. And we became friends, and I wind up staying there. So that was like my My whole loft? Yeah. I had keys and everything. I always I was always there. And, we came with the idea, let's have a party. So we would invite friends over just to play ping pong, and they would come hang out with us, and we'd play ping pong in this in this loft. And friends, you know, bring beer, bring whatever you want, and let's just party. The party got really big, and, eventually we came up with a website called Naked Ping Pong. Right? Because Naked was the state of mind of how we're feeling, just feeling free, enjoying life. And, we got a write up in a magazine, in a hipster magazine, and it brought so much attention to our website. Then we got sponsors, so Red Bull sponsored us. We got various vodka companies, beer companies. Really? Yeah. They they were like, well, we can't give you money, but we can give you all the free product you want. Now it's illegal to sell alcohol out of your apartment. So we say, you know what? Let's make everybody RSVP for a tournament. Right? We charge $20 to get in for the tournament, but alcohol is free because you can give alcohol away. So we did that for a while, and it got really, really big to where we started, hosting, NBA halftime shows. We did, years ago, the actual, Super Bowl party when it was in Phoenix, Arizona with 50 Cent and Vitamin Energy. So everybody wants to bring our party somewhere. And then in the midst of that So you created this, like, do it yourself Yeah. Ping pong club. Ping pong club. Yeah. In an apartment. And then in the midst of that, we met Susan Sarandon. Right? Because Susan Sarandon had came by to our party. At at at one point, she wanted the guys to edit. The the original reason she came is one of the guys' assistant is her assist. I mean, one of the guys' friends is her assistant. So she came by to have this video edited for Tim Robbins real quick, and that's how we met her. Because I remember the first time I saw her, I was like, you know, you look really familiar. And I didn't realize it was Susan Sarandon. Yeah. So then, eventually, we had to get out of the apartment. You know, all good things come to an end, which starts new beginnings. And then we came up with a business plan and gave it to Susan, and Susan loved the idea. She loves ping pong, and then she helped us start this spin that we have in New York. And that's how spin started. And now how many locations does spin have? We have 5 ones that are currently open now and 2 more that will be by September. Yeah. So we have New York, Toronto, LA, Chicago, San Francisco, and, Austin, Texas is just about here, and, and, Philadelphia It's gonna be next. Yeah. So about 7 soon. And so this is, like, your business? This is, like, your main thing doing spin? Well, I mean, I don't have to do much. Right. You know, I'm I'm a I'm I'm a founder, so I don't have to do much. Like, we have managers, like, an amazing managerial staff and CEOs or whatever you want to call them. We've had a lot of new people come into SPIN since we've started, and they sort of kind of took over and you know, changed it a little bit and made it better. Mhmm. Yeah. So So at the beginning of this, I mentioned how, you know, I've been playing for 40 years, but because I never really took lessons Yeah. Even even though I was playing with my friends all the time and we were always competing against each other and trying to beat each other, wasn't enough. Like, I never really learned. Right. It's kinda like with something that's with anything in life that's hard, you can't just learn on your own, really. You need somebody to tell you when you're doing something that's that's wrong. Like, do you think it's does anyone just start off with all the good habits? Like, I remember you you've showed me so many things with, like, the hand has to go, you know, go down, and the wrist goes back, and then angle this way. I have to remember all these things very hard, and you have to go up instead of around. And it seems like you always need, like, a teacher and then people to play. It's it's you know, again, after 40 years, why did I have so many bad habits? Why did I why did it never get better? Okay. So this answers your question from before. And what I said before, why is table tennis the one of the hardest sports in the world? Think about it. If you took a basketball, right, and you went to the basketball court every day from 3 years old and you shot baskets, you will be way better than the average person. Right. If you took a tennis racket, you went to the tennis court, and you played tennis every day every day for 10 years, even 2 years, 3 years, you will be better than the average person. This is one of the only sports where that doesn't work. It's true because probably probably, realistically, from the ages of 9 to 18, you know, when I was still growing up in my house, I probably did ping pong every day. Right. And I probably even got better, but I didn't get good. Right. Exactly. So this this is pretty much the only sport where where, first of all, everybody thinks they're good. Everybody thinks they're good at ping pong. Everybody. And it's the only sport. Right? Because in basketball, if you shoot the ball and it doesn't go in a hoop, you're bad. Right? It's that simple. Right. But in ping pong, you can look good and be really bad. Right? So and the reason why this sport is so difficult because there's so many things that you have to learn, and even pros are still learning. There's so many different things, the angle of the racket, how you how you make your wrist. Keep keep your elbow down. The footwork if the footwork is wrong, the stroke is wrong. Right? Spins and all this stuff. And that's why people can play 40 years, 50 years, every day. They can play ping pong every day, and I'll still go beat them with my cell phone. And that's why. Because, you know, in this sport, it's about technique. You you need technique because the sport is one of the fastest sports in the world. Right? So with that in mind, you have a tenth of a second to decide what you wanna do. It's like chess. I have to figure out from my shot what you gonna do, and I have to have options in my head. Okay. I'm gonna serve. He's gonna possibly play here, here, or here. If he plays here, I gotta play there. But if I play there, he might play here, so I have to play there. So this is what's going on in your head quickly as you're thinking, and that's why this sport is so difficult. Yeah. I mean, I remember you were showing me one time where, you know, I always tried to kill it on the serve, like, hit it really fast, and you were like, no. No. No. Just try this. And then you made, like, the softest serve possible where I had to, like, stretch in to return it, and then you and then it pops up, and then you're able to slam it back. Right. Right. So it's like you're thinking like, a few moves ahead, the chest, like you just said. Yes. So and it seems like there's all these scenarios that are possible, particularly on the serve and the returns and so on. Right. So so so that's where the training comes from. When when you're doing serious training, you have to try to train all these scenarios that that can possibly happen because you don't have time to think. Like, oh, if he goes there no. It has to be quick. It has it has to be it has to be, natural. So so we have drills that that that we do that recreate scenarios of a mat. So for example, I get a bucket of balls, right, and I'll serve 1 to you underspin, and then put maybe one wide forehand, one middle forehand, maybe backhand, maybe and make you move so so that it's natural to your body so that once you see it, you can react quickly. Like, do you think with any, sport or endeavor, like, how important is the role of finding that teacher early on to avoid the bad habits? In this sport more than any other sport. Because in this sport, the bad habits are so minor. Right? You know, it it it's just so minor. Like, for example, when you phrase hitting, right, if your racket's open a little bit open, if I tell you just close it just a little bit, that's a huge difference. Right. It's a huge difference. So those things you can never learn by yourself. It's almost it's so difficult to learn these, but these little things are so difficult to learn by yourself. But like I said, because the the goals are different. Like I said, if you had a basketball court, the main goal is getting that ball in the hole. I feel I feel like with every sport, there's been movies, sitcoms, documentaries, like, you know, baseball, basketball, tennis. There's, like, a ton of content out there. Right. Right. Nobody's made, like, a ping pong, like, the subculture of ping pong kinda Well. Sitcom or documentary or movie. You did a little with I mean, you did a lot with the with the documentary called The Tables, about the tables that you put out in Bryant Park, which is right in the middle of of New York City and and and the subculture that's developed around that. It's small. It's it's making the film festivals. Yeah. Like, what do have has won or any awards? Yeah. It's it's won so far, we have 4 awards. 3 are Audience Trace Awards for best short documentary, And then the other one is an actual, award which comes from the panel of another film festival. And then I'm sure this last one, from the feedback that I'm getting, which I'm gonna check today later on, that I'm sure if we didn't win an award in this film festival, I I don't know. But I I think we definitely won another award, I hope. How can how can people see it? Like, are you ever gonna put it on YouTube? It will be after the after the film festival season is finished, then we'll start, you know, doing more screenings in New York, and they will put it online. Why doesn't someone pitch, like, a movie or or a sitcom about, like, the subculture of ping pong? Because it's like a whole subculture down there at Spin, for instance. So this is the reason why a documentary is doing so well. The documentary cannot be about the sport. The reason why is because ping pong is not a big sport in America. Nobody's really know about it. So it can't be about the sport. It has to be about some type of human connection as and the sport being as a side thing. And that's why our documentary is doing so well. If our documentary was about ping pong only and the sport, it would never do well. But because it's about the connection and how this sport brought brings together the most amazing people and the most the characters are so different from your multibillion dollar business guy to your homeless guy that play together every day. And that's what makes the story. So they would have to find a way to to to make a movie that has human connection and not just a sport. Right. But there is one successful ping pong. There's one very successful ping pong movie, actually, and it's really cool. And it's called ping pong, and it's from Japan. So it's a movie called don't know it. Yeah. It's a movie called ping pong that comes from Japan, And it's a really cool movie because they made it, like, a comedy, but then it's serious at the same time. But it doesn't make the sport see, and there's another problem too. So a lot of people, when they do a movie about ping pong, they make it into a type of comedy that's not cool. So that's a huge problem. Like, balls of fury did it. Another movie, I can't remember, did it. Right? So they have to find a way to make it. It can be funny, but still let people understand it's a real sport, and you have to trade, and it's serious. Right? So this particular movie from Japan called Ping Pong does it perfectly. It's funny, but then you can see, wow, man. Those guys are serious. So so what's what's next for you? Like, you know, what's your next big big thing? So my next big thing is now that I got all this motivation from being at all these, all these, film festivals I mean, it's the first time in my life that I've been to I mean, I went to 1 with Susan, and I went to San Diego one time just to do some event, but I've never been to so many film festivals in in the period of 2 months. So now I have so much motivation to finish my own documentary. So I'm doing my own documentary called, My North Korean Ping Pong Diplomacy. And it's about my trip in North Korea, and, and it's gonna be the first document. So I like to do things also that I wanna be the first at. Right? I'm the first person to make the world's first hip hop song about table tennis, over a 100000 views. You know, I'm the first person What's the name of it? How can people find it? It's it's it's called it's called I forgot the name of the song. It's name of the song. It's called, Well, if they YouTube, Wally Green forgot my song's name. That's crazy. If they go to your channel, Wally Green. It's Wally Green. You'll you'll find it. Yeah. So, oh, it's called A Game Nobody Knows. Yeah, so the world's 1st hip hop song. You know, I'm the 1st person in the world to play ping pong with an iPhone. It's like, I do all first things. The front? The front of the No. The back of the phone. The back. Okay. You don't wanna crack the screen. Yeah. Yeah. So so so I like to do a lot of, you know, first things. So my documentary is gonna be the first documentary about North Korea that's not bad. Like, all the documentaries are just, you know, they're just bad. When you were there, like, were they following around the whole time? Like, they're just handlers that were always with you? So so so you have a guide, and your guide, that person is responsible for bringing you everywhere. So you can't just leave. It's it's it's it's not like you wake up in the morning and say, you know what? I'm gonna go across the street to the park. No. You don't leave that hotel ever. Unless the guy comes and gets you and takes you. So, for example, I was there for I was supposed to be there for a week. In the 4th day, I was like, listen, we need to really go to the park. I just I I we we can we go outside? That's what I said. In my mind, I was thinking outside was there's a beautiful park across the street. And I thought, oh, man, you know, I wanna go out. And she and the guy goes, yeah, okay. We'll go out tomorrow. So I'm very happy. Oh, man. I'm gonna get to go to the park, you know, walk around. You know where we went? We went right outside in front of the hotel, and that was outside. Sidewalk? It wasn't even, like, on a sidewalk because it's where the car is pulling. And I I told her, I said, hey. Can we go to the park? So, oh, no. No. No. No. No. It's still not Kent Kent. What? And then and then I decided I want to leave the next day. I was like, I gotta get out of here, man. Because there's nothing for me to do. You know? You you you don't have Wi Fi. And and you know what? And I spoke to them about that. You know, I had a lot of conversation with the organizers and stuff like that. And, you know, and they explained me their views, you know, and and, you know okay. I understand. You don't want Western influence in your culture. I get it. I get it. There's nothing wrong with that. You wanna keep the pure Korean culture. That's very understandable. But if you want people to come here, you gotta give them Wi Fi. That's what I told her. I I said, listen. I said, nobody wants to go to a place where they're cut off from the rest of the world. So because the the the organizer was like, yeah. You know, we we wish we can get more Westerners to come to this competition. And I said, well, you gotta give them Wi Fi. People have family. They have wives. You know you know, when when you go somewhere, you need to tell your family or your wife or your girlfriend or your boyfriend, yo, I'm safe. You can't just disappear for a week. Yeah. You know, it's not normal. So I told her, it's like, you guys need to make if if you guys want more people to come here, you guys need to get at least Wi Fi. It's so important for people to be connected to their family or whatever. You know? And and and and I remember when I got there, and I was like, yo, I need to send an email. I gotta tell my wife, like, I'm safe. And they they were looking at me and said, no. I said, you don't understand. Like, I really need to send an email, like like, now. Like, I because it's sometimes I I get really intense. Like, no. I gotta send. This is like because I didn't know that you can't send any emails out. So I'm telling my wife, yeah, don't worry. When I get there, I'm gonna email you. Wrong. Nothing. And I said, listen, you guys gotta make it happen. Like, I need to tell her that I'm here. And then what they did was they they took me in a they took me in a room, and, they stood behind me and watched me send my email. Oh my god. Yep. It's so controlled. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They wanna no. They they wanna make sure that you're not trying to do any dumb s**t. Well, I'll tell you my takeaway from all this. A, it's been such a pleasure kind of getting good at something that I've loved all my life, but I didn't realize how bad I was until I met you. And it's and it's such a pleasure being on that on the bottom of that learning curve and feeling, you know, all the things to learn, and and it just excites my brain. Like, I think that's something people should always do with with things that they're passionate about is they should try to get good at them. But the other thing is, I think a lot of times people feel, oh, I'm too old for something. Like, you say when you're 19, you know, how old are you now? I'm 835. So you said when you're 19, oh, it's too bad. I didn't start when I was 3, or many of these champions started at at 3. But I think a lot of people, even when they're 50, might say, oh, it's too bad I didn't start a business at 20 or write a book or do this or that. But I think at any age, you could start something. You might not be the best in the world, but you could you can combine all these things you love and still make, make something an adventure. Like, you've now been involved in hip hop as it relates to ping pong, starting a whole business related to ping pong, like, maybe the first of its kind, doing these documentaries, traveling to all these countries. You've made a whole life around ping pong without having to be number 1 in the world, but still being you know, pursuing all these different things that you love, whether it was like video or music or business ownership or athletics. It's kind of the combination of things and figuring out all the things relating to your interest that anybody can do at any age, really. There's no there's no barriers then. Right. Right. Like, all the artificial barriers go away. All the excuses go away because, oh, no. But if I combine, writing with this other experience I've had, now I can do it. Or if I combine business with these other experiences I've had, then I can do it. And that's kind of inspirational for me too as I'm always trying to to reinvent. But most importantly, I wanna get really great at ping pong. So, when's our when's our next lesson? When's our next lesson? It's, like, Wednesday? Wednesday, Wednesday, I think. Alright. I gotta work on my serve now. No. It's getting better. What's what's the worst thing you saw in my play when we first started playing? The worst thing Yeah. Was the technique. Yeah. Like which part? Like your elbow kept popping up all the time. Yeah. Because my elbow was, like, behind my behind your back, and it kept popping up. But but it's it's normal for people who don't who've never played, you know, in the right way. I think also the the holding the racket at the kind of downward angle all the time. Yeah. Because it was always up. Holding the racket. And I I tend to be more open with it, like, the first straight ball. But now it's getting better, though. Yeah. I'm trying. Like, there was a few shots that were, like, really good. Well, you know, Bruce Lee has that saying, I'm not afraid I'm not afraid of the man who knows 10,000 kicks. I'm afraid of the man who's done one kick 10,000 times. Times. Yes. So so and you always hit, like, that one shot, like, just to get that one consistency of shot, like, over and over again. And I noticed that's how a lot of the lessons around spin seem to happen. Yeah. It's it's it's it's all about repetition. Like, you have to do it a 1,000 times. People think you just try to hit the ball harder. No. And that's why I say hit it softly. Hit it soft. If you if you can do it 1,000 times softly, then you can get on to a little bit harder. But it's all about rep repetition. Well, Wally Green, people could find you on YouTube. They can see you hanging out at Spin in any of these cities. What else? The documentary of the tables, eventually, they should look for, or they should look for the documentary about your North Korean ping pong diplomacy. And thanks for coming on, the James Altucher Show. No problem. It was a pleasure. And and I just wanna say once again also, Spin is, like, a great place. I've been going there for, I I wanna say, at least 4 years. When did you open up? We opened six and a half years ago. Yeah. So I've been going probably more. I I remember one day That's crazy. Oh, I'll tell you one story. One one time, I took my daughter there. I guess she was around 11 or 12, and there was it was at night, and there was a party there that Bank of America had rented out the place. Uh-huh. And we kinda snuck in and just picked up some rackets and started playing. Oh, that's cool. And, because all the Bank of America guys were just drinking. They weren't even playing. Yeah. And, eventually, the waitress, came over and said, look. You really can't, stay here and play. And I offered to pay, but they're like, nah. Don't worry about it. And because all again, all the Bank of America guys, they they had just been bailed out by the government. They were just partying. They didn't even care about ping pong, and my daughter really loves it. So then I wrote about this, how we did that, how we snuck in, and we were polite about it, and we offered to pay. Somebody actually wrote an article trashing me saying I was taking advantage of she actually accused me of having white privilege, that if I had been black, I would never would have been allowed to do that. Like, the Really? Yeah. Someone really tried to trash me. So ridiculous. It was totally ridiculous because the Bank of America guys weren't even using the details. It was my daughter's birthday. Exactly. I'm with my daughter. Hello. Yeah. Maybe I was using, like, little red haired girl privilege, but, but we we we've loved to spend the whole time. It's such a great place and, love the music there, and, you get lessons there. There's all the pros, everything. So thanks once again, Wally, for the lessons and for coming on the podcast. Alright. Thank you. You're welcome. For more from James, check out the James Altiger Show on the choose yourself network at jamesaltiger.com, and get yourself on the free insider's list today. Hey. Thanks for listening. Listen. I have a big favor to ask you and it will only take 30 seconds or less, and it would mean a huge amount to me. If you like this podcast, please let me know. Please let the team I work with know. Please let my guests know. And you can do this easily by subscribing to the podcast. It's probably the biggest favor you could do for me right now, and it's really simple. Just go to iTunes, search for the James Altucher show, and click subscribe. Again, it will only take you 30 seconds or less. And if you subscribe now, it will really help me out a lot. Thanks again.