356 - Steve Cohen: The Tao of Steve Cohen, A Shortcut to Wisdom

Transcript

This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is the James Altiger Show on the choose yourself network. Today on the James Altiger Show. People do not understand what money is, I find. Yes. Like, if they make $10 today, they think they're gonna automatically make $10 tomorrow. And if they lose $10 today, they think they're gonna lose $10 tomorrow. Like, people just don't know what money is and and the basics of money because we're we're we're geared towards just thinking of money as a salary, and we, you know, just need to get bigger and bigger salaries, and that's success. But money is is much more nuanced than that. Right. And as a therapist, I mean, we know money is, like, the number one stress of most people in America. And I would see it all the time, and there's all these studies about debt and mental health. More debt you have, the worse your mental health tends to be. And we don't know which sort of which comes first. Your mental health problems lead to more debt or your debt leads to more mental health problems. We know they play off of each other. It's probably hand in hand. I think it is. I think there's such a link between mental health and financial health, and I wish that we talked more about that. So how does in in your view, how does someone take control of their money? So once again, Amy, I think this is, like what is this? Like, your 4th time on the podcast? Think so. You're gonna you're gonna quickly break the record of most time most times on the podcast. So I've I've Amy Morin, author of 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don't Do and, also, 13 Things Mentally Strong Parents Don't Do and the upcoming author of 13 Things Mentally Strong Women Don't Do, which I just got my copy of. I'm excited to read, and then you'll be on a podcast later to talk about that. But, the reason I love having Amy on is I basically wanna make my life better. And every time Amy's on, I feel there's takeaways for me that make that make my life better. And so we we came up with a list of things to to talk about, and I know there's gonna be things here that I'm gonna I'm gonna use in my life starting today. Oh, good. I hope so. I hope so as well. I'll let you know for sure. But it's just like, you know, about, like, a month ago, I had on Yuval Harari, author of Sapiens, and a bunch of other great amazing books. And I I took away a lot of knowledge from his books, but he also explained to me why he doesn't carry around a smartphone, and I haven't carried around a smartphone ever since. So I always try to take away something that makes my life better. So today, you know, we have a bunch of things I wanna talk about, but I also wanna talk about first, we're gonna talk about 10 mental strength exercises that will make you stronger as opposed to the things to avoid. But I also wanna talk about your recent article, 5 ways to simplify your life so you can make room for things that matter most. And I feel this intersects a lot with my own story from the past few years. So what what, well and, actually, before even that, I wanna ask you what Steve just asked you before the podcast started. How did you just sit down and come up with the 13 things that mentally strong people don't do? I mean, you had gone through all these horrific things in your life, and you had to kind of yourself find inner strength to push through them. And we went over that in our very first podcast together. But what did you do? Did you just sit down and write them? Or Yeah. So as a therapist, I'd really studied people over the years to know what what were the good habits that helped people, but also which were the bad habits that kept people stuck. I think I've just never seen them all written down in the same place before. And so as I was in the midst of feeling sorry for myself, I had said, mentally strong people don't do that. And so then I How do you know that mentally strong people don't do that? You know, when I'd see people in my therapy office, who would get better faster or people who had been through hell and back and people that bounced back, that was one of the things he didn't do. Even if something horrible happened that week, they would say, okay. This happened. When they might be sad, they might be really angry, they might be upset, but they didn't say, poor me. This is terrible. I'll never get through this. My life is awful. My life is worse than everybody else's. All of those sorts of things about throwing a pity party. And so I realized but then I would see the other people that were in the midst of that, and they really didn't wanna get better. Some of them, they just really wanted to justify why they couldn't change their life and say, this is why nothing will work for me. So it was one of the things I noticed right off is, okay, that doesn't help people. But at the same time, after going through several losses in my life, here I was thinking this isn't fair. I shouldn't have to deal with this. I shouldn't have to lose somebody else. I thought, alright. Well, if I've learned anything, it's that that would keep me stuck. So I sat down and I wrote the list of all those things that would keep me stuck, and it was just a letter to myself. And as you know, I posted it online hoping it would help somebody else. I didn't imagine it would go viral that I'd write books about it, but sometimes people will say, was there magic in the number 13? Did you mean to come up with 13 things? And, no, I didn't. When I was done, I just had 13. Do you find so it it's one thing, you know, being aware of them. Like, you're aware that you were feeling sorry for yourself, and you were probably also aware that while you were feeling sorry for yourself, your life wasn't able to progress. Like, when I think back to the periods in my life where I felt the most sorry for myself, sometimes it would literally take years out of my life. Because like you say, I would it would almost be like a way to justify not improving, or I didn't instead of it really takes away from the mental energy and the mental real estate it requires to move forward. It's almost like the the area of your brain where you feel sorry for yourself is the same area of your brain you would have used to improve and get out of this situation. Exactly. I think it does. I think it takes a lot of energy to say, I'm not gonna do anything. I'm just gonna sit here and sulk, or I'm not gonna change my life. And you must then have to come up with excuses about why because people will try to help you, or you might come up with an idea, but you just say, oh, that doesn't work. Yeah. And I I, I find that I still occasionally feel sorry for myself. But the quicker I can recognize that I'm doing that, and that it's not healthy for me, and that I need to replace it with something that can improve me, the the the quicker I get over whatever it is that I was feeling sorry about. So that's that's drastically reduced the time that I'm wasting. Exactly. When you put it into perspective and you think, alright. I'm like, does feeling sorry for yourself for 2 minutes ruin your life? Probably not. But it's when you feel sorry for yourself and you stay stuck there for hours or days or weeks or months that it becomes a problem. Yeah. And, you know, I would imagine for you, when you were feeling sorry for yourself, I mean, how did it what what were you doing, those moments you were feeling sorry for yourself? Would you were you able to work? Were you able to to kind of achieve any kind of maximum potential? Yeah. I worked mostly because I had to. But other than that, I just wanted to just sit there and stare at the wall and think this isn't fair or, you know, why me? Or just complain and vent and, you know, not do anything. And But but a lot of these things are addictive. Like and and I know we're focusing on this. So feeling sorry for yourself is the first thing you wrote on your list of 13 things mentally strong people don't do. But a lot of these things are addictive in the brain. Like, I imagine feeling sorry for yourself is some way to, you know, is so whenever you you're stressed, you know, cortisol spikes in the body, and the body wants to get rid of it. So there's 2 ways to get rid of the cortisol. One way is to feel sorry for yourself and throw a pity party because then it's almost as if, you you know, you don't have to deal with the stress. You could just feel sorry for yourself. And the other way is improving or figuring out your way out of the bad situation. So we we could become addicted to these negative patterns just by saying, I'm not gonna feel sorry for myself. What's an action step someone can take to avoid you know, to get out of that state? I think it well, as you say, it's an action step. You have to do something. Because we get stuck in a cycle where you think my life is terrible. You feel bad, and then you do nothing. And it reinforces the thoughts of my life is horrible. So to break that cycle, you gotta say, I gotta do something different. Even though I don't feel like getting out of the house, I'm gonna do it anyway. Or even though I don't feel like, helping somebody today, I'm gonna do it. And you just have to take that leap of faith that it might make you feel better and take action even when you don't feel like it. I think this is an important point because I think actions precede emotions, precede thoughts. And so sometimes people think a thought, and they feel like, oh, you know, this is my thought, and now I'm either gonna feel happy or sad, and then I'm gonna take action. But the reality is you take an action that leads to an emotion, and then your thoughts are sort of rationalizations of why you're feeling that emotion. Like, it goes comp so this is like science. Like, it goes completely in the other direction. So your advice of doing something, that's positive is actually the most important step towards changing the emotions and then changing their thoughts. Right. Because I think for most of us, it's a habit to think, I'm gonna wait until I feel better to do better, but you gotta do it the other way around. You just gotta say, I'm gonna take the action even though I don't feel like it, and and then that can change how you feel and how you think. So so okay. Let's talk about, before we get into the mental exercises, first, how's things going in your life? Wonderful. I can't complain. My next book will come out in a few months, and it's done. It's written. It's been edited, and so the hard part is over. I feel like you live the ideal life. Like, we were just talking, before the podcast. When in the in the summer, you live on a boat in Maine. In the winter, you live on a boat in the Keys in Florida. A house in Maine that I live on in the sun. Oh, sorry. A house in Maine. Yes. Yeah. Boat in Maine might be hard. Anyway, so but, you kind of have crafted or or you you've sort of done life design where you've you've basically said, where are you unhappy, and let's make my life, accommodate so I could be happier. Yeah. It was a decision a few years ago. You know, it was, my husband and I were in Maine. It was snowy. It was cold. It was February. We're like, what are we doing? We don't have to be here anymore. We both work remotely. So and he'd always dreamed of living on a sailboat ever since he was a little kid. And so we said, let's do it. It was tempting. You know? Like, we'll do it someday or you wait or when we're retired. But, you know, in the back of my mind, I've lost a lot of people in my life at a young age. There's not not guaranteed. So he said, let's just do this. I knew nothing about boats. I said, you just pick out the boat and I'll just show up with my stuff. And that's basically what we did. I knew he'd picks pick out something nice and he did and packed up everything I could fit in a suitcase, and off we went. And so so you didn't feel this instinct like, no. I'm never gonna live in a boat. I want I wanna have, like, the nice house with the picket fence and the kids running around. Like, you didn't you you didn't feel uncomfortable being so, mobile or up in the air? Not at all. Like, I think, you know, okay. We could have bought a more expensive house. We could have done more different things, but, I just see so many people that work at a job so that they can afford the expensive car that they drive and to afford their mortgage payment. You think, well, what's the point of working so hard and so long just to have more expensive stuff? And so I knew I didn't wanna get caught in that trap. And, and I just wanted to live and go on an adventure while I could and just seemed like a good idea. And so this segues into your your article, which got a lot of traction, 5 ways to simplify your life so you can make room for things that matter most. And your first thing, I think, is declutter your house. But I imagine living on a boat, you know, you had you were forced to declutter. You can't carry, you know, all sorts of dining room tables on a boat and 60,000 towels and chairs and all all this other stuff. It was a wonderful lesson in how little that I needed to be happy. And so I literally just packed some clothes in my laptop, and that was basically it. But I don't need much. And I thought of you actually when I wrote the article because, obviously, you were known for only having, what was it, 9 possessions? Yeah. I basically, for several years, just had, kind of a backpack, and I would have 2 outfits. And, essentially, then just my computer and phone, and and that's it, and a Kindle. Well, I on the on my phone, I would read books, so I didn't need the Kindle actually after a while. And that was basically it, a toothbrush. That's it. And did you feel like it was simple then in some ways because you didn't have to worry about extra stuff? Yeah. And what was really great, we you noticed I noticed the most when my mental inclinations change. So it used to be if I passed a bookstore or a store where I saw something, oh, hey. I like that. I could buy it. I would buy it. But now since everything had to fit in my backpack, I I would I would think to myself, oh, I should buy this book. But then I would say, no. I can't fit it in my backpack. Or if I saw a shirt I liked, oh, I should buy it. No. I'd have to take something out of my backpack and throw it away in order to to buy that shirt. I stopped feeling this urge to buy new things. Right. And that was it's easy to stay decluttered if you're not buying new things. Right. And, you know, that's how it is living on a boat too is, obviously, there's only so much room. And so when it came to, like, buying a lamp, it was a big deal to buy a lamp because instead of having, you know, 14 lamps in a house, I knew I was just gonna have one lamp. So I got to pick out whichever one I wanted, and that was it. And I don't have to now worry about shopping for more lamps or anything like that once you have everything you need. You know? I don't know. It takes a lot of the stress out of having to buy more or worry about if you have enough. Nope. The closets only fit so much. And Yeah. And and and for me, I wasn't living in a boat, but I was living in, different Airbnbs. And so part of the qual part of the thing for me was I couldn't buy things that would be, a, a hassle to move. So for instance, even a a lamp or a TV or whatever, I couldn't buy one of those because what am I gonna do? Carry my backpack and a lamp or and a a big TV? So I had to, you know, find Airbnbs that I liked living in, but I was always moving around, in different cities. And even in this city, it's a different Airbnb, so I didn't know what they had. And then when I finally did so now I've settled down into an apartment, but it's kept me really minimal. Like, I still have that feeling of, okay, I can't buy anything that's a waste or not immediately and all the time usable. Like, I find that every square foot has to be usable or it's a waste, and everything I get has to be very usable. Like, I'm gonna use it even on a daily basis. Mhmm. So so it's really kept me at a minimum to how I, decorate or or what things I buy and so on. That's what I think, you know, simplifying your life. Obviously, most people aren't gonna move on to a boat, and they aren't gonna carry around a backpack without any other possessions. But, you know, you look at the research, and our house sizes have tripled. And, you know, when you look at the charts of depression, anxiety, all of that's gone up over the years. The bigger houses and the more stuff we have isn't making us happier. And even when you look at how much people spend on storage bins and storage containers, and and then they have to rent storage units, I mean, it's a $1,000,000,000 industry because we have so much stuff, and yet we keep doing it. And that and that was what that was what set off my, simplification. I actually like that word simplification better than minimalism. I feel minimalism has turned into a quasi religious word. Right. And I don't really consider myself a minimalist, but maybe it's the same thing as simplification. But, anyway, I had at the time I did it, I had 2 apartments where the lease was coming up. And I was in a kind of crisis state, and I just didn't wanna deal with it. And I didn't wanna deal with moving everything to storage. Like, what do I why do I need everything in storage? Because I'm never gonna look at it anyway when it's in storage. And, yes, I'm gonna miss some things, but I decided I I just don't wanna deal with keeping track mentally of where everything is, paying the storage, eventually getting it out of storage. So that's when I just got rid of everything. And, yes, people ask me, oh, it must have been you must have it must have been so freeing. You must have not missed anything. And I really do miss things, and I'm nostalgic for some things that I gave away, but or or or threw out or gave to charity or whatever. But, missing things and being a little sad is is part of life too. Right. And for me, I had collected a lot of stuff. So when my mom passed away, I got a lot of her stuff. When my husband passed away, I had all of his stuff. And it's all in boxes and, you know, in my basement, in the house in Maine. And at some point, you know, and I would always feel bad that I wasn't doing anything with this stuff, but it wasn't stuff I needed. And so I think, well, someday, I'll do something with it or find somebody to give it to. But I didn't really realize, I think, how much just having those boxes stacked up down there really weighed me down even though I don't really hang out in the basement and don't stare at those boxes. But just getting away from it all and going to be on a boat and and not having to think about that made it it was like a huge weight lifted off of me and just really made me motivated me to say, okay. Get rid of stuff I don't need. Right. And so now when you when you eventually move into a house, let's say if you have kids or you you and your husband decide to settle down someplace in the middle between Maine and Florida, like South Carolina or whatever, You'll probably bring this this, inclination to simplify with you so that you don't go off and you know, everybody has all these things around this house that's just for appearance. They don't use them. Like, you'd probably be very functional on what you what you buy and purchase. Right. I don't need extra stuff, and I just it was so freeing, and I just felt really happy, I guess, being on a boat with knowing, okay, a suitcase full of clothes and a laptop, and that's all I need. And did you find it it removed you out of the status game? Like, there's no keeping ahead of the Joneses if there's no Joneses. Right. Right. And I think, you know, that's a big thing. And when and that's one of the thing I I really enjoy about the Florida Keys is it's not much different than Miami. Whereas in Miami, you're driving by Lamborghinis and people with who it's their status is really important. In the Florida Keys, nobody cares. Everybody's wearing, you know, their flip flops and listening to Jimmy Buffett, and you have no idea if they're homeless or they're a millionaire. And, you know, I just find that to be quite freeing because, you know, not impressed necessarily by expensive things, but I don't have to worry about that when I'm down there. This is kind of the problem with New York City is that no matter how much x you have, you know, what whether x is money or status or power or fame or whatever, there's always your next door neighbor who has more. Right. And so it's it's you know, envy is not that I would say in general I'm an envious person, but you just just walking around New York City, everybody's got something you want and a little more of it. And it's it's it's definitely an emotion that you constantly have to have to fight here. Absolutely. Obviously, I'm not from New York. But whenever I come to New York, I definitely feel that. It was just looking around at people too and seeing, you know, the expensive items that people have, and it's a different world for sure. I always wonder, like, if I'm in a store and I see all these people in the store, like, where do they where do they come from? Like, why are they buying these things? How do they make their money? Like, it seems like everybody you know, I just I wanna I wish I could do a freeze frame of everybody in the store and then make it like a web page and click on them just to read their entire stories, but, of course, that can't happen. That would be fascinating. That would be nice. That'd be a good kinda good kinda website. So the second thing you have is, and this is related to your book, which is get rid of bad mental habits. For instance, feeling sorry for yourself, dwelling on the past, giving away your power. You know, we've talked about feeling sorry for yourself, and that's related to dwelling on the past. What's giving away your power? So thinking, okay. Somebody makes me mad or somebody makes me do something, makes me feel bad about myself. It gives other people power over you. Or even events in your life saying, you know, I can't have a good life because I had a bad childhood or I can't, enjoy life because I have a bad job. And really saying, you know, that you're powerless over how you spend your time, how much happiness you have, who you spend it with. It's really interesting because there's there's 2 parts to each statement you just said. Like, I can't do x because of y, and, like, I can't enjoy life because I haven't gotten this promotion yet at work. And the second part is is really the more important. Like, why do we need that second part to enjoy life for instance? All all of the first part is the same thing. I can't enjoy life more, But but after the because, there's always something different because I haven't got a promotion or because I haven't gotten married or because I haven't had children yet. And so it's sort of like, we give power to all these things after the because. How do we avoid that? Like, if all your life you wanted to, I don't know, be a a professional baseball player and you just got rejected by, you know, being a baseball player, how do you get over that disappointment? So I think it comes down to accepting, okay. This is this is the way it is, and then knowing that life is happening right now. And, yes, you can be spend the rest of your life disappointed, but that's a choice. You could also say, okay. I'm gonna choose to be happy right now. And knowing that happiness is a choice, and it's all about saying, how do I wanna live my life given the hand I was dealt? So so and it easily could be lead to feeling sorry for yourself. Like, oh, the New York Mets just rejected me. That was my last chance, to be a professional baseball player. It's what I've wanted since I was 5 years old. What and and before you talked about, okay, now you have to do things to get over that feeling. What would you recommend someone in that position do? So then you say, well, what what else can I do with my life? Maybe you take your baseball skills, and you say I'm gonna coach sports, or I'm gonna go do but maybe you say I'm gonna get into something completely different. I'm gonna get into finance. But what am I gonna do next? So focus on the action of what are you gonna do about it? How do you if if your passion has been like one thing for so many years, and you and a lot of people a lot of people ask, how do I find my passion or my purpose in life? Or my purpose in life's a bad word because there could be many purposes. But how do I find things that I'm passionate about when I've been passionate about one thing for so long? And I find for myself, it's almost hard to answer that question because I always have because I expose myself to so many different things, like whether it's reading a lot of books or watching a lot of videos or having podcast guests, I'm always interested in different things, almost too many things. But let's say someone who's been single-minded in their in their passions, or let's say they've been at a paralegal job for 20 years, and they've never sought out their passions. What's the first step, do you think, for them for these people to find what their next passion is or their first passion is? I think set a goal. I'm gonna try something new every day. Or once a week, I wanna go out and do something, learn about something else that's completely different than what I've been doing and just explore and see what's out there. I think it's really important because, like, last week, Neil deGrasse Tyson, the astrophysicist, he we interviewed him. And I was reading a bunch of his books to prepare. And for instance, he has a book astrophysics in a hurry. And I thought to myself, man, I love this. Like, I've never since I was 6 years old, I haven't been interested in space or astrophysics or anything like that before, and I certainly don't like the math of it. But suddenly, I felt like I wanted to get a PhD in astrophysics without the math. Right. I asked him if I could do that, if that's possible. He said, no. You definitely need the math, so that's out. But it's like you have to definitely expose yourself to things that you didn't know you whether or not in advance whether you would be interested in it. Right. I think it comes as a surprise to a lot of people when they figure out, oh, I'm actually kind of interested in this. Or maybe it uses some of the same skills that you use for something else, and you apply it to something completely different, but you find that that's helpful. So I think it's all about putting yourself out there. We get stuck in a rut really easy. When you just keep heading down the same path, you hang out with the same people, you do the same things every day, it's easy to think I don't really have any interest. But when you branch out and you start doing new things, you'll uncover things that you just never imagined you might be passionate about. Yeah. Come to think of it, everything that I've ever been passionate about has just been by accident. So I might read a novel where the main character is getting pleasure from doing something, and I I think, oh, I'd really like to try what that person is doing. Or I might watch a show, or I might see a video, or talk to somebody. Like, what's what's the last thing you got passionate about that was just sort of an an accidental discovery? Probably snorkeling down in the Florida Keys thinking, wow. This is amazing. It wasn't something I thought I would love as much as I do, but I love it. Why'd you try it? It was there. It was one of those things. It was an opportunity. It's I can go, and there's a coral reef around the corner from where I am a lot of times. So it was a matter of, hey. Let's go try that, and it's something I love to do. And and so now whenever you get a chance, do you select all I do. Is there is there, a metric by which you judge improvement? Like, do you go deeper and deeper, or do you take photographs and and you you see light? I'm trying to figure out where the dopamine hit comes. Like, do do you put snorkeling photographs on your Instagram, and you you judge your improvement by how many likes they get? Or or what's or maybe there is no status thing at all. Yeah. I don't even know that there is a status thing. I think it's one of the things in life that I just find pure joy and I could lose myself in. I looked at jet ski too. And so just being on the ocean, being on the water, somebody from Maine, I'm just impressed by, you know, clear water that you can look at fish because you can't do that very well in Maine. So, it's novel still. It's something interesting to do, and I just lose time and like to learn about different things that I'm seeing. Do you so learn about meaning, like, you'll if you see some fish, will you then research them later? Yeah. Or take somebody with me who can tell me, hey. That's a parrot fish. Oh, what's that? So I find that to be fascinating. Okay. So so, I'm gonna go to number 3 of your 5 ways to simplify people. This one, I've talked about and written about so many times, but it's I would say this is the most important thing. Cut out toxic people. Yes. This is so important. It, like, is life saving. When you look at sometimes how much energy people take up in your life and sometimes maybe it's somebody you only see once a week for 20 minutes, but then you dread seeing them for 4 days. And then after you've seen them, it the next 4 days, you can't stop thinking about it. I And you look at, well, how much time of your life did that person just eat up? And so I think it's really important to just look at who who in your life takes up mental energy. Maybe they don't even take up your physical time, but they take up your mental energy. And if it's not working, it's okay to cut people out. And certainly in some circumstances, you maybe you can't cut out your mother-in-law or, Why can't you? Well, you know, if it would cause marriage trouble, then maybe you think, alright. I can't cut her out completely, but maybe you decide I'm gonna set boundaries or we're gonna have rules or I'm gonna say in my house, these are the rules. If she's gonna come into our house, this is what I think we should have for rules. She can't nag at us or she can't, criticize me or something like that. And then sometimes it's emotional boundaries of saying, okay. I'm just gonna this is how she is. It's just gonna roll off my back. But sometimes it's about also saying, I'm just gonna limit my contact or cut somebody out altogether. So it seems like just from what you said, there's there's 3 categories of toxic people. There's the people who you could you see, oh, this person's toxic. I'm definitely gonna avoid them. Like, maybe every time they see you see them, they yell at you, or they put you down in some way, and you realize, oh, you know, I don't feel good every single time I see them. I'm just gonna stop saying yes to seeing them, and and you're allowed to do that for whatever reason. Yep. Like, they're they're a friend. You don't have to be friends with them anymore or whatever. Then there's toxic people who you have to see, like a boss or a mother-in-law. And so a lot of times when I write about this, people say, but what about if the toxic person's my boss? And or or or in your in in what you just I'm not saying your mother-in-law is toxic. I'm just, or or even your mother. You know? Forget about mother-in-law. It could be your your own mother. What what do you do about the toxic people that you have to see even on a daily basis like a boss? So one thing to do is if you know somebody is critical or they do something they're overly negative, just come to terms with that. Don't try to change the person because I think sometimes we walk into the situation wishing that people would be different or hoping that they'd do something different. So just knowing, okay, this is how this person is. And then to know, well, how does it normally affect me? Maybe you feel bad about yourself. Maybe your anger goes through the roof. Maybe you get really upset about things. So just recognizing, okay, I can't control what the person does, but how am I gonna control how I respond? And then what am I gonna do before I talk to the person or before I or after I talk to the person, maybe you decide, all right, every time I have to interact with my mother, I'm gonna treat myself to something great. But, you know, there's something to say. How do I how am I gonna control how I respond to this person if I, it's not really an option to cut the person out? Then it's up to me to decide how I'm gonna how I'm gonna respond and to take steps to do that. I think also, like, I, like, let's say I used to have bosses that were toxic. I think I used to pander to them initially. Yeah. Like, oh, I'll be extra nice to them, so maybe they like me. Or I'll try to have a talk with them about what's going wrong, so maybe they'll change. But people don't really change that much. And, and the pandering would just make me feel bad afterwards. Right. Because, like, oh, I wasn't not only were they still toxic to me, but I wasn't even myself. So I feel bad not being authentic. I I think in those cases, it's it's it's you have to sort of create some scarcity of yourself. Like, if you used to spend a lot of time trying to to pander to them or please them, if I remove myself from the situation to the minimum contact, like, oh, if I see the boss in the hall, say, I'll not hide, but I'll just focus on my work and not try to pander. If you if you create scarcity of yourself, your value goes up. Right. You know, it's almost like a a rule of economics that if you reduce supply, your the value of you goes up even in your boss's eyes. It's like a psychological thing. Yes. I think so too. And I used to work with this therapist that I know who would, just come to the conclusion of helping her clients, let's accept it. So when she had a a client who had to go to a, or who was going to go to some sort of family gathering around the holidays, and, you know, there was, like, the drunk uncle that made inappropriate comments or the, extra critical great aunt who would always say something about her size or something like that, So they made like a family bingo scorecard of like, okay, when all of this stuff happens, then you'll have bingo. Just as a fun way to say, it's going to happen. It has nothing to do with you. Just to go in and have fun with it, but to know that, yeah, you don't have to try to change these people. You don't have to pander to them. Just know that this is this is what what your family is like. And if you choose to go to a holiday function, it's gonna happen. And and I'll add, it's important not to gossip about them behind their back Right. Because that's still taking up their mental real estate and, in fact, very negative mental real estate because then the people you're gossiping with will think you're a gossip, which could create a bad reputation. Or what you say could get back to the person that happens 99 times out of a 100 anyway. So it's important not to do that. It's important not to say kind of snide things to them while you're interacting with them. Like, it's, again, just just kind of understanding your reaction, maybe reducing supply, and so on. So the the third type of toxic person, I think, is where you don't know if they're toxic or not. Mhmm. And I think this could come in many sly forms. It could be the the the friend who's a little jealous of you. So it's just suddenly putting you down, but maybe maybe you feel a sense of loyalty because of your best friends 5 years ago, and they really helped you through through some difficult situation. So you feel loyal to them. Or I don't know. Like, how do you recognize someone who's kind of on the fence but still toxic? You know, I think this is the most insidious toxic person. I think so too. And I think a lot of people, you know, when they're networking, you meet somebody and they seem great at first, and then you have that feeling of, oh, maybe not, or something feels a little icky or they're just using me. And I think to to just pay attention when you have those thoughts into those feelings is to know, okay. And then how do you set some boundaries maybe so that if you this person is starting to do something, how do you set boundaries to push back instead of saying, yeah. Welcome into my life, and I'll I'll do that. If somebody's bossing you around or asking too much from you, start saying no and then see what happens. But but sometimes it's hard to tell. Like, I had a friend who, he was always super nice to me. He, you know, we got close. You know, he would visit me. He would he would even drive, like, a 100 miles to to hang out and visit me at my home. And, and we became really good friends, but I realized that lots of negative things were happening in his life. Like, he was, I I gradually started to realize he was a a drug addict and other types of addict. And then we started doing some business together, but, you know, it never worked out. And and then he would, you know, ask for favors. And because we're friends, I'd always want to help him out, like, you know, introduce him to people who could help him or, you know, lend him money in the worst case. And then just gradually, I it took a long time for me to realize, you know what? This even though he's just the nicest guy in the world, this is toxic to me. And that was hard to realize. And I feel really bad because he doesn't know why I broke off contact as much as I did. And so he gets disappointed, and then I feel bad. And, you know, that's it's a little insidious. It is, and especially when somebody's nice because we don't wanna put kind of people in categories, a good person or a bad person. We put them in a good category because they're a nice human being. Then we it's harder for us to wrap our brain around the fact that, okay, that may be true. This is a nice person, but on the other hand, it's not good for me for x, y, and z. And it that takes a while to get to that point before we recognize it. But I think once you do start recognizing that, you get, you get better at recognizing it in the future. Yeah. Maybe you get better at recognizing it in the future. I think that's what's happened to me. And I will say that definitely the difference between the times I was failing the most and the times I was succeeding the most is the exact people I have around me. And, you know, people always say, oh, you should have impact on life. You should you know? And there's all this stuff going on in politics, and and, you know, there's lots of ways you could state your opinion. But, really, impact is making sure you have good people around you and and supporting them in ways that you can that are healthy so they become even better, and then they help you become better. I think this is so key to success. I think so too. And when I talk about mental strength, I think sometimes people think it's just an individual journey. It's all about being mentally strong, and you're the lone wolf. But I think the people you surround yourself with, this team of people, really makes a huge difference because there's times rough times in your life. You need people to to help you through them. And even when you're on the top, things are going really well. Sometimes you need people to give you a reality check or you need people who can be honest with you and say, point out the potential flaws of what you're doing too. That's such a good point. Like, I could think of both when things were the worst for me and things were the best for me. I really had nobody to talk to in both times to set me straight. Yeah. So when things were the worst for me, initially, I was so ashamed of it that I wouldn't talk to anybody. So I didn't let good people help me. And then when things were the best for me, I was usually so arrogant about it. I had nobody to say, hey. You know, ease up on what you're doing. Like, it's not you know, you need to kind of protect yourself in various ways. I didn't have I now I know better, but this is for years years. I didn't really understand this. Right. And I think a lot of you I mean, we live in a fairly lonely world, right, that a lot of people don't have. Even though we're tribal animals. Right. Right. Like, connection's important. And face to face contact and to actually have true friends. I mean, the number of friends people have, I mean, it decreases over the years. By the time people get to be 60 years old, most people say they have 0 confidantes. How how many how many close friends do you think someone should have? I think you need 4 or 5 is probably And how do you define close friend? I think somebody that you could call either with good news or with bad news. Somebody that would would sit with you through the worst, but they'd also sit there with you through the best. You know, it's it's interesting. Like, so maybe this is a 4th toxic person, or maybe maybe I'm toxic. But, like, I'm I'm gonna have you put your every now and then, I'm gonna ask you to put your therapist hat on. Okay. So so I have a friend or a couple friends that I was really close to, but it seemed like I got really close to them when they were going through hard times, and I helped them. And then when I was going through hard times, they, like, obsessively helped me. Like, they would call every day, and, like, they were always helping me. But then I don't know. Somehow, the relationship dwindled, and I don't really understand why. Like, I really like this. It's a couple, and I really like them. But somehow, I don't really even understand. They basically cut off contact with me, and I don't I can't even think of what I did. I only did good things, I think. I mean, maybe I did something toxic, but I doubt it. And I don't really I don't really understand. And so so that's their decision. And I sometimes feel myself feeling anger about it, but I shouldn't. Like, that's it's it's their decision to not be my friend. I don't know if I'm explaining it correctly, but that that's basically the situation. I find myself resentful. Did you have things that you did with them outside of them, like, helping each other? Did you have things in common? Yeah. And we would get together for dinner or coffee occasionally, and somehow it all just stopped. And I would say and and I would run into them at parties, and they're like, oh, they'd be offering oh, we always have we have to get together. Well, let's get together. I miss you. But then I would reach out, and I would never hear. Oh, and so then what I guess, what what do you make of that? What sense do you make of that? I don't know. I think I don't know. I get really I think either I feel like they used me somehow or maybe I upset them, and they must have misinterpreted something I did. I really have no idea. It seems like they're really angry at me, and I have no clue. Usually, I have a clue why someone might be angry at me. Like, I might stop talking to them, or I might have not responded to an email, or I might have specifically done something that they don't like. But here, I can't I can't figure it out at all. You know, I think when any relationship ends, there's, like, a sense of grief and loss in going through that, and it's so much easier when we know why. Because you can be mad at somebody, or you can think I made a mistake, or that person messed up. But then when it when it just, like, dwindles, disappears, and then ends in a strange way, it's harder to fig to make sense of Right? To wrap your head around it and think, this is why it is. How do you deal with it? Do you still run into these people? Yeah. I mean, I do. Yeah. I just you know, every like, because we're in the same social circles. I occasionally run into them at parties, or they live around the corner from me. So so might run into them on the street. Would you ever ask them? Do you think I should, or do you think that's because it's not like I could change them, you know, or or it feels weird somehow saying, hey. Why did why did you just do you think I should ask them, or do you think I should just ignore it? Would they tell you are they the kind of people that would tell you the truth and be honest if they were offended by something or if they I I don't know, actually. I I because I never encountered this before. Right. Because I think for most people, I mean, it would just be easy to say, well, we just lost touch or we're busy. And, obviously, that part then isn't isn't helpful. But if somebody were honest and said, you know, actually, you did this one thing or we felt like when this happened to you, you changed or whatever. Actually, you did this one thing, or we felt like when this happened to you, you changed or whatever it was would be could be helpful to know. But in the end, I don't know that you'd get a truthful answer from them anyway. Yeah. So I think I just have to I like like you were saying before, it's my choice how I react to this and just make different friends. Right. Right. And, you know, there's a 101 reasons why, and I think sometimes we come up with one conclusion, and it's either, you know, I messed up or, something like that. But that's only one potential reason. So then to be comfortable with the uncertainty of, okay, a 101 reasons why this could have happened. You might never know the answer. And You know, people always use the word closure. Yeah. Like, there's such a temptation to to write to them, for instance, and say, hey. Can we get together and discuss? Or, hey. For whatever it is I did, I don't really know, but I'm sorry. There's this temptation to somehow kind of go understand the full circle of what happened. But at the same time, I don't know if that would really benefit me in any way, like or or make me feel healthier about it. Yeah. Sometimes I think it's just about being sort of comfortable with the uncertainty and knowing, okay. It is what it is for whatever reason and and to try to just sit with that discomfort and move forward. Yeah. Feeling feeling uncomfortable with the uns feeling comfortable with the uncertainty, I think that's a real I think that's a real key piece of advice, not just in this situation, but in many types of situations. Like, why did someone, reject me for a job or reject me for an opportunity? You're never really gonna know the truth Right. In 99 out of a 100 cases. Right. I think in some ways, it would be really helpful if we had that information. If somebody said, you know, gosh, You did this, or you showed up for the interview and said this, and that's wasn't what we wanna hear. Oh, okay. And that just doesn't necessarily mean I'd change my behavior, but just having that information would be so helpful to know. Yeah. But it never it never happens. No. Like, you you know, I hear this a lot from actors. They try out for a part, and, they feel good about it, and then they get no callback or anything. And then I'm like, well, did they ever call back and give you feedback? And they said no. Right. Because I don't know why it's just not part of the industry. And I guess just being comfortable with that uncertainty and trying to maybe under understand a little bit how you could improve in a similar situation, but but really just dwelling on the fact that they rejected you and and it was somehow maybe half personal, half professional, just being comfortable with that and and moving on is important. Right. And knowing, you know, one person's opinion isn't necessarily a fact. So if you get rejected for something, the person didn't think you were the right person for the job, it doesn't mean that you're bad. You know, what what did you just say? Get, a person's opinion is not facts. Steve, you should be writing these things down. These are, like, great for the the article. Number 4 on your 5 ways to to simplify. Take charge of your money. This, obviously, I'm very experienced with and is so critical. Like, people do not understand what money is, I find. Yes. Like, if they make $10 today, they think they're gonna automatically make $10 tomorrow. And if they lose $10 today, they think they're gonna lose $10 tomorrow. Or if they have a $100,000, let's say they inherited something, They they don't know whether that means they should save a $100,000. They should spend a $100,000. They should spend 50 and save 50. Like, people just don't know what money is and the basics of money because we're we're we're geared towards just thinking of money as a salary, and we, you know, just need to get bigger and bigger salaries, and that's success. But money is is much more nuanced than that. Right. And as a therapist, I mean, we know money is, like, the number one stress of most people in America. And I would see it all the time, and there's all these studies about debt and mental health. More debt you have, the worse your mental health tends to be. And we don't know which sort of which comes first. Your mental health problems lead to more debt or your debt leads to more mental health problems, but we know they play off of each other. That's probably hand in hand. I think it is. And, you know, and I can say certainly when people come into my therapy office and my anxiety would go up and they'd say, oh, I got, you know, my heat heating bill's coming in this week and, some things my electricity might be shut off. And what what are you gonna do about this? And some of them were just so relaxed. They didn't have enough anxiety about it. We're not thinking, you really should be worried about this, or my car is broken down, and I don't have any way to fix it. And we don't have public transportation. So what are you gonna do about it? As compared to, you know, some people just couldn't sleep at night. They needed they just no matter how much money they had, they just weren't comfortable. But plenty of people just were living paycheck to paycheck and, you know, had no, desire to save for an emergency. Tax season would be the time when they, you know, would get these huge refunds, and then they'd already have it spent 4 times before they even got the got the check. And it was just incredible to see, you know, when people were going through depression, how they dealt with money. But when they got better, sometimes their financial habits got better. But, I think there's such a link between mental health and financial health, and I wish that we talked more about that. So how does in in your view, how does someone take control of their money? When I see somebody who says, alright. I'm gonna get out of debt, and they start paying it off. I mean, the transformation sometimes is incredible. And then when people finally feel like, oh, I don't have to be in debt my entire life. I could pay off those student loans. I can pay off these medical bills. And they become confident. I mean, it changes everything. Then they don't look at $10 the same anymore. They know, okay, just because I have $10, I don't have to spend $12. I can spend $2 and then save 8 and put it towards my bills. And once they feel like, okay. I could actually pay my bills off, then they get more excited about it and start to pay more attention to where their money goes. But I think most people don't have a budget. And even if you ask them and the studies are something like 1 in 4 people say I have a budget. But then if you ask them if they write it down, almost nobody does. Well, you don't have a budget in your head about where your money goes. You know, it's this is actually I realize as you're talking, this this one topic could be an entire podcast because there's so many nuances to everything. So for instance, when you talk about debt, yes. If someone's constantly maxing out their credit cards and living beyond their means, but thinking that their next big win is around right around the corner and they'll be able to pay back their debt, that's probably unhealthy. But there's also healthy times to take on debt. Like, if interest rates are low, you should refinance your house and and things like that. But that's a little more subtle. And then even more subtle is if you have a lot of credit card debt, but you also need to feed your kids, sometimes you should just not pay back your debt and Mhmm. Let the credit card companies come after you because that that's part of the, you know, it's part of the, almost American stigma that you need to pay back your credit card debt, but people forget that credit card debt and every any debt really is a contract. And and there's 2 sides of the contract. 1 is if you pay your debt, this happens. The other side is if you don't pay your debt, this happens. So you're allowed to not pay a debt if you're willing to accept the consequences of it. Right. So if you don't pay your credit card debt, your credit score will go down. There's chances of of them taking you to court, but it's it's actually a fairly small chance. And you have to understand the mechanics of what happens to debt when you don't pay it back. So mortgage debt, credit card debt, and student loan debt are 3 different kinds of debt where different things happen depending if you don't pay it back, and understanding that is part of the nuance. And and then there's the whole psychology of, you know, Ben Franklin said, you know, at the end of the year, if you, made a $100 but spent a 101, unhappiness. If you if you made a $100 but spent 99, bliss. You know? So there's kind of the psychology around spending less than you make, which may or may not be true. Like, you know, you and I both, have a more entrepreneurial way of making money, which is not necessarily good or bad, but it's more volatile. Right. So you make money when a book comes out and and depending on how well the book does, or you make money on your entrepreneurial ventures, which could be good some months, bad other months. For the past, 2020 years and 32 days, I haven't had a a job that's paid my salary, so I get money in chunks. So some years, I make zero money, but I still have to spend money every month, you know, rent or payments or bill, whatever it is. And so I get I get stressed sometimes if I feel like I'm having death by a 1,000 cuts. Like, just money's going out a 1,000 times before one chunk of money comes in. So that sometimes is an irrational stress because, you know, sooner or later, I'll get the next chunk of money. So but, anyway, there's there's a a thousand things about you know, another thing is how do you how do you use money to make money? I think there's deal there's the opposite poles of greed and fear that a person has to deal with. Like, oh my gosh. This this investment's a no brainer. I'm gonna put all my money into it as but then you can't sleep at night until the investment comes through. Right. So you have to understand the right level of of, how of money management. You have to understand like, in poker, it's called you always have to stay in the game. You know, you can't invest so you can't put so much in a hand that you're gonna get kicked out of the game forever. So there's a lot of nuances around that. But, again, that could be an entire the 13 things, you know, mentally strong rich people don't do is a is an entire category by itself. It really is. I mean, as you know, I mean, wealth doesn't get rid of financial anxiety. Plenty of people who have a lot of money still worry so much about money that they struggle to function. And right now, entrepreneurs, of course, are sort of revered as that's where it's at, but not everybody has the, think, the mindset to become an entrepreneur and that that's okay. And for people that if you enjoy your job and you get a salary and that helps you to have peace of mind with money, that that's okay. But for a lot of people, you know, I don't necessarily need a a day to day job and a day to day paycheck as neither do you. But, you know, how do you make peace with money? And sometimes just out simplifying. How can you come up with a plan? Have some goals. Figure out what are you doing with your money. Know where it goes. But for some people, it's so anxiety provoking. They can't even sit down and and think about it because, brings up too much anxiety to face it. Yeah. It brings up a lot of anxiety. Like, for instance, if the IRS sends you a letter, you you you absolutely need to open it, like, that minute. But so many people kinda hide it in the bookshelf Right. And say, you know what? I'm gonna open it when they send me maybe a 4th letter. But by then, they might be seizing your bank account. Right. But it's very stressful, and you have to be able to confront that stress. And the other thing is your who you choose to spend your life with, no matter how much you love them or or you're attracted to them or whatever, they kinda need to be on the same level with you in terms of their financial understanding. Like, you don't wanna be with someone who spends crazily while you're a little bit more frugal. Right. You know? Or maybe you do. Maybe that's a good balance. Like, all these things are nuanced. Yes. And I think people forget that. They go for chemistry and not necessarily the compatibility. And so when it comes to money, obviously, that's what lands tons of people in my therapy office is that the saver and a spender got together, and they just can't get along. And they fight about money all day, every day. Well and they split the difference. So the saver gets more Yes. Polarized towards saving, and the spender gets more polarized towards spending. Exactly. And then the spender ends up, you know, hiding things, and savers, you know, got its account squirreled away as well and their secrets. And, it's amazing how much money can create this relationship problem that then people just can't solve, and a lot of people get divorced over it. So so given all of these nuances, like, what's something you recommend people either start with or read or whatever to kinda get a get a grip on this? You know, I think, I like Dave Ramsey's approach about paying off debt. I think for people that wanna get out of debt, that's a great place to start. And then for people that wanna build wealth, Chris Hogan, Dave Ramsey's retirement guru, is a great place to go too, I think. But to just find you know, to stay away from get rich quick schemes, but to find something that you know about, learn about it, and that you actually wanna invest in rather than just throwing money at a financial adviser that you don't know anything about? Yeah. Like someone wrote me last night. Her husband recently passed away, and she got some money. And so now she's being aggressively pitched by a couple of financial managers. And she said, what should I do? She asked me specifically to look into, some financial managers that she's she's that are really aggressively selling themselves to her. And I suggested, you know, there's no rush. Like, whether you put money with them 6 months from now, that's not gonna or or now it's not gonna really change your long term financial picture. Why don't you just do nothing for 6 months? I always tell people, let this additional money marinate your soul a little bit before you make big changes that that, you you know, your husband passing away and the new money has changed enough. You don't now have to simply send your money completely to someone else's bank account that you don't really know that well just because they say they're gonna take care of you. Even people who you know well could lose all your money for you. Exactly. So so, again, there's there's there's so many nuances there, but it's it's important. And and I think on the entrepreneurial side, it's okay if someone's not entrepreneurial, but people even with a full time job could often be entrepreneurial on the job in various ways. And they could also try in their spare time small entrepreneurial activities. And, again, that's a topic of an another podcast, but that's something to think about. Oh. Like, you've been able to do that. I love side hustles. I think if other everybody started a side hustle, I think the world would be a better place. Well, and I highly recommend, one of our maybe it was 2 podcasts ago where you described your side hustle that was did did well for you. I'll I'll I'll just leave it at that, but I highly recommend that podcast. And and people got a lot of benefit from that. So the 5th thing is gain control of your time. And this also is so critical and and even recently has has changed my life. Yeah. Tell us about your smartphone adventure. So so yeah. So what we we talked earlier, how I I stopped taking my smartphone out during the day. So it doesn't mean I don't use my smartphone when I get home. I make phone calls and so on. But, I did this because Yuval Harari, author of Sapiens, told me he doesn't have a he doesn't even own a smartphone. And, I asked him, well, how do you what if you're out meeting your, your spouse? How do you coordinate? And he's he's it was it was so simple his answer. He was like, well, we agree where to meet in advance, and then we just meet there. And, you know, people just don't do that anymore. They're like, oh, at 3 o'clock, I'll be around this area, and let's just text and figure it out. But, I find for me, what's changed is well well, first off, there's the statistics. People touch their smartphone 26 100 times a day. And you you can't even imagine that, but that's true. Like, people have studied this. And on average, there's different studies. But if you, like, average the studies, it's about people use their smartphone about 4 and a half hours a day. 4 and a half hours a day. And I would keep track of, like, oh, well, when I'm in a cab, instead of reading a book, I'll check Instagram. I'll check Facebook. I'll check Twitter. I'll I'll respond to emails. So it feels like a productivity tool, but it's really not. Like, I'm just scrolling down Instagram liking photos. That's not productive. And even responding to emails in a cab is not very productive because what I do now is a cab's a great example, or if I'm out at a cafe is a great example, I'll bring a book and I'll read. Or I'll bring my notepad and I'll write down ideas instead of being on my cell phone. So so what I would use to do is I would think I'm reading, but every few pages, I'll check I would check my cell phone Right. For, oh, did I get a new email? Did I get a new Facebook request? Whatever. Now when I go home, it's it's instead of it being spread out over hours checking my emails, I'll spend just 5 minutes. Okay. What are the 3 emails I got in the past 2 hours that are are important? I'll quickly respond to them, and that's it. That's entire time I spend on the computer, and then I'll go back to reading. So I've saved so much time and actually become so much more productive. This has just been a month long experiment. It hasn't I thought it would be a 1 week experiment, but it was good enough. I kept doing it, and it's been great. It's been a good way to get control more control of my time. I love that. I think probably more of us. That's inspires me to say, how do I spend less time on my smartphone? Of course, for me, you know, I get a an email from my agent or something about a book, something like that, and it's it's the rush that I get from from getting that email. So then I just wanna check it, or what if what if I got one? And I was as if it matters. If I answer 4 hours later or in 4 minutes, it doesn't really matter. Right. But it's For most things. Right. Right. The vast majority of emails I get are just not that particularly urgent. But Here here's the extreme that people tell me. What if your child, was hit by a car and is in the ER and you missed that email? And and, you know, this sounds harsh, but my child already has been hit by the car. It's not like Yep. Me getting it's not like me looking at an email will avoid her getting hit by the car. I'll still go to the ER that day, maybe an hour or 2 after I would've, but, you know, that's really the worst case scenario, and it doesn't really change her life or mine. And we forget that 20 years ago, we lived like that. You know? Our parents walked around knowing that if we got struck by a car, they'd have to somebody would get them the message at some point. And but now it's such a panic, right, of, oh, no. Yeah. I forgot my phone. I have to go get it because something terrible might happen. But how much it's impacting our lives on a day to day basis versus, you know, the one worst case scenario. And as you said, you can't prevent it anyway. You just get the news a little bit later. Yeah. Well, and the other thing about gaining control of your time, speaking of news, is I never read the news. I haven't picked up a newspaper since 2010. So, and that has I I used to read maybe 3 or 4 newspapers a day. I would read every magazine, you know, whether they were monthlies or weeklies or whatever. I would read every magazine that came out. And so just avoiding all of that and instead reading good books, people say, well, I I've saved so much time, and I've been able to to read so much more and do so much more with my life because reading the news would probably take an hour or 2 a day out of my life. And nothing in the news ever really changes my life. Right. And I think so many people, though, feel compelled that they have to read the news. Like, they're gonna be uninformed, right, if they aren't reading the news all the time. But then, I mean, they end up in arguments with people on Facebook about politics. And Right. Like, so 2 2, you know, people in their suburban air conditioned homes arguing on Facebook with each other until one says, you know, that's it. Unfriend. And Right. That's not gonna have any impact. It's not gonna change the world. It's not no one changes their mind, so it's not gonna make anyone more informed. It's just it just makes you angry. It's useless. And and if you think about, like so we're we're recording this podcast a couple days after, Brett Kavanaugh just got, you know, sworn into the Supreme Court. So it's not it's not as if, like so I've never I haven't read a single newspaper article about the whole thing, but it's not as if I'm uninformed. Like, the general zeitgeist of things people talk about, you still hear. Right. And I know all the issues about it. But regardless of where I stood on the issues, certainly would have had zero impact on whether he got sworn into the Supreme Court or not. Like, I have no influence there, and so many people I know are angry on one side or the other. Like and, again, I'm not being political here. It's just everybody was angry, And my view was I have no impact, and probably what's gonna happen is is pretty much predetermined. And the best way I can have impact is to keep doing what I normally do and what I'm good at, which is either writing or podcasting or whatever. And, you know, I don't know I don't know what else to say about it. There's no benefit to me being informed by reporters who know less than the authors and the good researched books I'm reading. Right. And when you think about how much information, even when you read articles or you watch the news, I mean, how much more informed are you truly. Right? I mean, we don't actually know what's going on. I we're just getting that information. But for a lot of people, I worked at my therapy office too over the years, it's been about, well, maybe if the news is really upsetting to you, maybe you should watch less news or turn it off. Or if you don't know where your time is going, let's do a time study. Let's take a log this week, and I want you to write down where your time goes. And they're really surprised to know, gosh. I thought I was on Facebook for 10 minutes a day. Turns out I'm on there for 2 hours. Or I do some online shopping, but only occasionally. Oh, I actually am online shopping for 3 hours a day. So I think it's just so important to be aware of where your time goes. And if it's not healthy, it's not helpful, it's not improving your well-being, then say, I'm not gonna do it. And that's tough because I think it goes against the grain to say I'm gonna shut off the news or I'm not gonna carry my smartphone. People really do accuse me of being uninformed, and they get angry about it. But I don't know first off, if I wanted to be informed, what would I look at? Like, every, because of the business model of news changing so rapidly in the past 20 years, every news outlet is biased now. Right. So whether, you know, too much to the right or too much to the left, like, there's not really a central, news source. And so I don't even know where I would go for the news. Like, where where do you go for your news? You know? Well, I write for Anchor. I write for Forbes, so I get a lot of news despite going to put my articles in there. But as you know too, like, a lot of these people who are writing articles are just sitting at home in their pajamas, and they just watched whatever news program. And now they're writing an article based on that. Right. It's not as if it's somebody who's right there in in the know who can give you more information than anybody else. Right. So if I have a choice of, like, reading, the latest 500 articles about, you know, Brett Kavanaugh or reading the book 13 things mentally strong people don't do, which is based on, you know, major life experiences you've had and then year and then your experiences as a therapist and then years years years of research and then you putting together, you know, draft after draft of your best thoughts on the topic as opposed to reading something somebody who barely knows anything wrote last night in 15 minutes. I'd rather read your book. That will make me a better person as opposed to, like you know, every day on the Brett Kavanaugh stuff, I'd hear people talking. Oh, well, this happened, then this happened. Now this is definitely going to happen. Nobody was ever right about anything. All of their predictions were wrong. And now all of the facts have all just sort of disappeared because we're everybody's the news cycle's on to the the next thing. And I'm sure it's still part of the societal consciousness. But, again, I'd still rather be mentally stronger. So that's how I can have more impact is by improving myself. And, I don't think being uninformed about every, you know, about 90% of issues is is such a bad thing. Right. And I think it's one of those goes back to you can't control the news, can't control what happens. You can control how you respond to it. And a lot of that's how much you take in. I mean, how many hours do people spend just mindlessly scrolling through social media and clicking on random news articles? And then at the end of the day, you don't even remember most of what you read anyway. Right. So so, so I like like I said, I don't read newspapers, but now, also, I I mean, I've never you know, since 2010, I haven't gotten to news websites, but I did make an exception last Sunday. And I'll tell you why. I was doing stand up comedy here where we're doing this podcast, and I figured, okay. Maybe there I wanted a new first joke, and I said maybe there's some topical thing that could lead to a joke. So I went to cnn.com. And after the Brett Kavanaugh headlines, the the only headline that stuck out was Kanye West deletes his Twitter account. And so I'm trying to think, like, how is this why is this even, like, a headline? Like, what Right. Possibly could it be? And it did lead to a joke, so I made sure it it helped me. But I just saw right away. This is the first time in 8 years looking at, you know, cnn.com or any news site, and it's just you could see why it's it's so worthless to to do. So Right. And there's both ends of the spectrum of you do need to be so informed, and here's all this political stuff that we're gonna regurgitate and then stuff about celebrities, people that you don't know, random stuff too. And I think, you know, we just have become a society that consumes so much information, and, we don't do anything with it. It's not enhancing our lives. You have to be control what what's coming in so that you can live your best life. But I think I think you said something before, which is really valuable, which is, I think measurement is everything. So if you take, a a diary of your of how you spend your time, that's that's incredibly useful because it'll show things that you don't realize. You know, it's very similar to, I ran into a friend of mine the other day. I hadn't seen him in a year or 2. And I'm like, oh my gosh. You've lost a lot of weight. And he said, thank you for noticing. I've lost £25 in the past year. And I said, how did you do it? And he basically writes down every food that he eats during the day, and then he has an app that tells him the calories. And so now he can specifically see how many calories he eats, and it was very different from what he thought he was eating. So whether it's calories or how you spend your money or how you spend your time or or maybe how much time you spend with people you love versus people you don't love or how much time do you watch TV. Measuring is everything. Like, I think that's so important. It is because our brains, you know, tend to we distort things. So if you ask somebody how many calories do you think you ate today, they might say, oh, 1500. But then if they really added it up, it might be twice that. Or, sometimes when people say, yeah. I go to the gym a lot. Well, take out a calendar, and I'll have them just hang this calendar in your fridge and just put a check mark on the days you actually go to the gym. And that motivates them to go more because they think, oh, that's embarrassing. There's only one check mark in the last 2 weeks. So then they start going more. I just I think sometimes just having a visual of how you look at how you spend your time or what habits you engage in makes a big difference. Right. And, Jerry Seinfeld talks about this. He would write a check every time he every day that he wrote, like if he wrote a joke. And the checks started to get so many in a row, he didn't wanna break the, the chain. Right. And so he just and he never stopped writing a check down because he would make sure he would always write so he could write that check because he was afraid to break the chain and and start over. So so, like, the act of doing that in itself, it it reinforces the habit. Yes. Absolutely. So, you know, it's, it it's it's it's you you said you said also the brains tend to distort things. And that's an interesting comment because it's not that I don't think it's that brains necessarily distort in a bad way. It's just that for a 1000000 years, we didn't really evolve to, we didn't have all the we didn't have social media for 1000000 of years. Right. So our brains didn't even know how to keep track of this. You know? Or we didn't really have to worry about too much calorie intake. We needed to have enough calorie intake for 1000000 of years. And so our brains, again, just we're not used to we don't have the DNA to process that information. So people should realize it's not that they're not smart enough to keep track of these things. It's just that our brains were never made. We don't it's not the right tool to keep track of these things. Right. And I that's a good point because I think, you know, try as we might to keep track of certain things. This doesn't work. You know, your 3 minutes of checking email here, there, and everywhere. At the end of the day, you're it's just a blur. You don't know whether you spent 30 minutes or 3 hours checking your emails, and it adds up. And so for people that I've done this with and they just they start to add it up a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. And at the end of the day, when you really count the hours of how much time you put towards something that you didn't even realize was sucking your time, then it's really eye opening. And they say, okay. Well, now how do you get proactive about how you spend your time so that you don't keep doing those things? So this was, 5 ways to simplify your life so you can make room for things that matter most. And I think do you have time to keep going? Sure. Sure. So because I wanna do 10 mental strength exercises that will make you stronger. This could be, like, a, a part 2.