Transcript
So excited to rerelease one of my favorite podcast episodes, Tony Hawk, 11 years in a row, world skateboarding champion. He's made over a $100,000,000 worth of video games all about skateboarding. I interviewed him. It's a little over 2 years ago in May 2016 at, Jason Gagnard's mastermind talks conference. And I remember on the way to the conference, I drove with Tony, and we passed this skateboarding park. Here he is. He's 48 years old. And he said before he stopped by the hotel to pick me up, he stopped by the skateboarding park and was just skateboarding. And all these kids were like, are you Tony Hawk? And he, of course, was like, yeah. And he was showing them tricks, and they were showing him stuff. Here he was 11 times the world champion of skateboarding, and he took the time out just in his spare time. He had a few extra moments, and he just loved it. He just wanted to play and hang out and talk to these kids. And I think that's the real example of peak performance. You have to just love something so much that you not only immerse yourself in it to get better, you immerse yourself in it because that's all you wanna do. And we had a great time talking on the podcast about what it takes to be a peak performer. And then not only that, he he couldn't stay at his level forever at the world champion level, but he reinvented himself to become a businessman. And he's a powerful brand now in the skateboarding industry, including, you know, again, over a $100,000,000 worth of video games. So a great interview, and I think you'll enjoy it. Now here's the show. This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is The James Altiger Show on the choose yourself network. Today on the James Altiger Show. The way I turned pro was I had reached the top of the amateur ranks, and I'm filling out the entry form to the next event, and there's a checkbox that says amateur, and there's a checkbox that says pro. And so I checked the pro box. And then that was it. And so when did you decide, okay, I'm going to dominate every area of it and That was not that was never a That wasn't your world. That was not a conscious decision. No. He's come out of the bushes. Yeah. Typical Altice or fashion. Just like last year, we had James, interview Rick Ross, the real Rick Ross. For those of you who were not here last year, the real Rick Ross was the 2nd largest drug kingpin in US history. I think when he was arrested, he was worth $600,000,000, and, sweetheart of a guy. He really is. He's super nice guy. But, this year, we have Tony, a little more milder. Are you yeah. You you're not into yeah. You're not into that stuff. We don't know yet. There you go. And I've always been a huge fan of Tony. I mean, just given I'm 31 now. I grew up with the Tony Hawk franchise of games, and, there's a lot of people in the sports space, obviously, who, you know, do well in sports. And then, unfortunately, they fall off the map and don't have a a business plan in in place or, anything like that. And Tony obviously is one of those, athletes that has done a really good job, I guess, crossing the chasm into entrepreneurship with licensing, and that kind of stuff. And, again, super likable guy. So I'm not gonna hold it up any longer. James Altucher and Tony Hawk. Alright. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. So I have to admit, I have to ask totally stupid naive questions first. Are you okay with that? -Like, the most stupid question. -I would prefer that. Okay, good. So I can barely, like, walk 3 steps without falling over, so I have to ask just some of the physics of what you do. So when you're I was watching some videos earlier, and when you're, like, kind of vroom and sort of -That's what we call it. -Sort of upside down and about to do, like, 2 and a half twists how is it that 10 seconds later, you're not dead? It's it's from a lot of a lot of trying and failing. It really is. I mean, it and also you just start to get a second, sixth sense of where you are in the air and where where you need to be and how to land and how to adjust yourself and, it just comes with experience though. I mean, you know, to learn tricks, like, in the air, doing flips and things, you have to be not that you want to, but you have to be willing to take some knocks along the way. So what was, like, what was the first so you've been doing this since you were, like, 10 or 11, depending on when you consider when you got serious. What was the first time there was a trick you did that originally you thought, there's no way I'm gonna do that without killing myself. I I think it was the first time I ever got airborne out of a pool. Because when I started skating, it was it was all backyard pools. I got into skating right at the end of the Dogtown Z Boys days. So the the whole idea of vertical ramps, that came later because those are just trying to emulate pools. And so I'm skating these pools and and I remember the first time I went to a skate park and I saw these grown what I thought were grown men. They were, you know, like 18. Yeah. 17, 18, flying out of these swimming pools and I was like, that's what I wanna do. And I never thought it might be a reality. I just wanted to work towards it. And I I remember the day that I actually felt my wheels hit the coping and and that I was above it. And, and I remember thinking, you better hold on because if you really fall off of this, you don't know how to fall. So what happened? Well, I'd say, hold on. I made it. I had to make it. I had no choice. I I didn't really, like, even falling is something you learn how to do. I was not that well versed in falling at that time in terms of getting out of something safely. I fell a lot, but I didn't really know how to get out of it safely. So what does that mean not being able to get out of it safely? Like, what would happen the first time you fell? Oh, just, like a bad safety roll. You know, it's like just tumbling down down the transition when there is a rare very basic maneuver, especially when you're skating big ramps, where you just take one step to to lessen the impact and then drop to your knees, and you have knee pads and you just slide down on your knees. And like, you know, you can do that from You can literally do that from 20 feet up. So so like that was when you were 11 or 12. Yeah. And you told me just a half hour ago, you went to the skate park down the street. I did. So what happens when you fall now? And, again, sorry that it's all about falling and the physics of this. I'll ask more and more questions later. I get up a little more slowly, but, it's it's something that's just inherent with with what I do. So I'm I'm definitely used to falling. It's it's the it's more like the unexpected falls when you think you've got something and then all of a sudden something didn't go right, but you don't have the time to to prepare for the fall, that's when you get hurt. Do you ever think, oh my gosh. I just can't do this anymore. I I it hurts too much when I fall. I I thought also that that moment will come. I I thought that, in recent years, I stopped skiing the the the what they call the mega ramps, which are the the ones you see, the big air events on TV. You know, the the ramp is is 28 feet tall. That's the top of the ramp, and so everything you do is is, amplified in terms of your speed, your height, and so it's it's almost 2 to 3 times your usual height. And one wrong move on that, you know, just one small adjustment the wrong way is tragic. And I just don't have I I don't have the youth that I can survive those kind of falls. So I kinda quit doing that. I think that's that's the moment, like, the last time I did about a 15 foot air on one of those things and fell doing it, it was like, I don't wanna drop this far anymore. It's just not that fun. So so it's funny. I I it so this is you you said a bunch of things that leads to a bunch of questions. Like, you said when you started out, it was all pools because they didn't have the ramps because it wasn't really an institution like it is now to some extent. And the idea And you see this in the movie Lords of Dogtown, where it starts with the pools. It's very rebellious. There was a drought. The kids are going in the pool because they're all empty, and they start skating until they get chased out. So almost like the culture of this starts in rebellion. And did did that appeal to you as well as the athleticism when you first started? I like that it set me apart. I started when I was pretty young, so it wasn't like I was trying to rebel against everyone and get into punk rock. I was 10 years old. You know what I mean? It was like I just really liked the feeling of it and I liked the the artistry of it. I liked that it was active and it was on my on my own terms, but there was definitely a creativity that that I hadn't seen anywhere else or that I hadn't really, embraced on any other sport. And so I really enjoyed that aspect, and I liked that it set me apart from my peers. I thought it was cool. I thought it was, like, this different thing. Even though they were like, you still skateboard? You know, you should have grown out of it by now. I'm 11. Because everyone, like, skateboarding was cool for for a hot minute, and then it just went away. And I didn't give it up. So I was, like, I was considered the super nerd because I was still skating. I was still doing this kid's activity. But I just I just loved it. And the the the sort of rebellious aspect of it, it just kinda came with the territory. You know, if you wanted to skate, especially in the late eighties, all the parks were closing. You had to just go skate the urban landscape or go sneak into backyard pools, and that's the only way you're gonna have terrain. And so that came with it, and I wasn't trying to be a criminal. You know? I just wanted to skate. So so I kinda wanna ask along 3 areas. Like, obviously, you you you won 12 world championships. You've won all sorts of contests. I wanna I wanna ask about the path to excellence no matter what your area or interest is. But then you kind of reinvented, or you did reinvent into turning it from just a sport for yourself to this business empire. So the first thing is, let's say someone's not 11. Let's say someone's I mean, I'm I'm really actually jealous of that. I wish there was one thing I'd been doing from 11 to 48. But let's say someone's, like, sitting in their cubicle, and they're sick of their job. And they are really passionate about something, but they don't even know the first step to achieve excellence at something. What do you think, based on your own experience, if you could dissect it, would be their first step or second step? Well, I think it it's definitely, taking taking the risk of pursuing it, you know, regardless of of the outcome. Just that that you wanna do this. And and I do feel like if you if you chase your passion, I mean, I love what I do. I love skateboarding. I would do it for free any day. I get paid more money than I ever imagined to go ride my skateboard, which still seems absurd to me, but I love it. And so it's kinda like in in that sense, I feel like you're living the dream if you're doing what you love because you would go wake up do that for free. So if there is some monetary, success to that, all the better. So, but, you know, sometimes it's a struggle if you're trying to obviously, you're trying to start a new business and there's there's peaks and valleys or sometimes it's just a struggle altogether. I think the best advice I have is I mean, I I'm preaching to the choir, but the best advice I have is that you wanna learn every aspect of what you're getting into. That's what I learned by accident almost in skateboarding. Like I started a skateboard business, I didn't ever wanna know what point of purchase was or net or, you know, and then I just But but I didn't shy away from it. I embraced it because I wanted to be prepared for what was to come. But even in just skateboarding, like, what was the role initially, like, year 1 of mentors, teachers? Like, what's, you know Let's say I wanna learn x. Say I wanna learn painting or whatever. What's what's the role of, like, a teacher in learning? What's the role of, you know, how you practice and how you get feedback out of it? Like, obviously, with skateboarding, the great thing is you get instant feedback. You either fall or you don't. You know? And with you also, you had kind of the those older kids who, you know, were teaching you every aspect. Like, what was every aspect of skateboarding that you had to learn? Well, like, when I went through you know, skateboarding has been through a lot of ups and downs. And so in the late eighties, early nineties, skating, in in terms of vertical realm, like, the the pool skating, the ramp skating just came to a halt because all the skate parks closed due to liability issues and insurance. And so they were gone, and everyone just went out and skated the streets. That's how all the modern street all the modern skateboarding today was born, was out of necessity. Going out and making the urban landscape your skatepark, the handrails, the ledges, you know, I'm sure people think it was a nuisance back then, but that's all we had. And so I went out and learned that, you know, and it was it was hard to change my style like that. And it wasn't like I was trying to be relevant, I just wanted to keep skating and I didn't really I didn't have a choice, and that was that was the terrain. So that was, like, going way outside my comfort zone to learn a whole new technique of skating. But beyond that, learning to skate almost anything, you know, anything they throw at you. Because because at some point, you choose to be a pro skater. You choose someone or perhaps someone supports you in it. You know, they say you're pro now, and we're gonna pay you. They expect you to be a professional. You know, you show up to a park or you show up to an exhibition, and maybe the the place is less than perfect. Maybe it's terrible, But you're a pro now. You're expected to perform. And you can't be a prima donna and be like, this place sucks. I'm a skating here. Where you might have done that when you were younger and and with no sponsor. Okay. But when you you turned pro at the age of 14, the first paycheck was 85¢. Right? For selling a board? Yeah. Well, my first one was $4.85. My second one was 85¢. Oh, okay. You you took a step back. So I got a spike in the, you know, presale. So what at that point, you must have had, like, either mentors or teachers or something. Like, what was the advice they were giving you to to become pro? Yeah. It's funny. It it it was a it was a totally different industry then. So my the way I turned pro was I had reached the top of the amateur ranks and I'm filling out the entry form to the next event and there's a checkbox that says amateur and there's a checkbox that says pro. And so I checked the pro box, And then that was it. And I remember my coach, Stacy Peralta, who is, you know, a legendary coach, looking over my shoulder and he said, okay. So he clearly thought you were ready for something. Yeah. I mean, he said it's up to you and and that was it. But now it's like there's the celebration, there's champagne, they surprise you with your own pro model and it was like, well, now you're skating against the older guys. Good luck. So it was different, but but the advice that he had I mean, really his advice was more, it it was more about dealing with people and and being being communicative. You know, I I was I was this little scrawny even though I was a pro skater, I was still, like, an outcast at school. I was super small for my age. Like, I was 16, but I looked like I was 12 almost. And so I had to learn to to come out of my shell and really talk to people and and and appreciate that, you know, this kid came up to me with my own skateboard model, wanted an autograph, and I and I'm so self conscious that I'm like, oh, I don't know. I feel weird, and then he just thinks I'm a dick. And so that kind of thing was what Stacy really helped me with. So and then you, you know, you gotta these these are guys, these these kids are making happen for you. You should talk to them. I mean, it seems like that ties in later to, you know, transforming I mean, many athletes go pro and then go broke. And so, obviously, you went the other direction. -So what -What do you -I went broke. I definitely went broke. -Okay. When skateboarding was, like, getting outlawed or whatever when essentially there was a drought in skateboarding What it was your passion for it that kept you through, but what what kept you skating throughout that? Because it seemed like everybody else stopped. I I just loved it. I I loved that I I could do it. I I had I had the, luxury of still being recognizable in some ways that I could, like let's we're talking about the early nineties. I took out a second mortgage on my house to start a skate company, which seems like the most ridiculous idea because skating was going down. But but I I partnered up with another former pro skater and we said, you know, we've seen skateboarding come and go twice. It's bound to come back. And if we start a company now, it'll take the the least capital to be to be on top of the skate industry. Like, to get the back cover of the magazine was Magazines were giving it away pretty much, and the companies that were big already were kind of giving up. So we positioned ourselves in a really good time, but in those days, I was doing like, my my skate career was the extent of going to 6 flags and skating in the parking lot, like, on a half pipe with rollerbladers, for 3 times a day for a $100 a day. That was your job? That was living the dream. So That was my job. Yeah. And and it seems like, you know, it seems absurd now, but it was paying the rent and I got to skate, and that's all that mattered to me. And then, you know, it's hard to have the sense that things are gonna come back. Like, obviously, in retrospect, it seems very prophetic that you could say, okay, this happened in the seventies and the eighties and it always came back. Oh, yeah. It was a big risk and it came back later than we thought. So there were a couple times through those years, like 93, 94, where we thought maybe this isn't gonna work. We might have to give up. What would you have done? You had all all you had done for 10 years but prior was skateboarding everything. I I had gotten pretty good at doing video editing and I actually had my own little system and so I started freelancing for other skate companies. So I was literally making the skate videos of our competitors, for a little cash. And then, you know, it seems like it would never have come back, or maybe this is not true, but what do you think? Would it have come back without the, first version of the extreme games on ESPN? I don't well, that's the the definitely, X Games help raise the profile of skating. You know, X Games, the first the first one was the extreme games in 1995, and they were just throwing anything out there. It was like bungee jumping and eco challenge and, sky surfing and stuff that I just don't associate with skateboarding at all. But through that test and through them kinda weeding out the the random sports they're throwing in there, skateboarding always shine through. I feel like that that was one of the highlights, and and that's one of the events that the kids really enjoyed watching. And I think they really enjoyed you know, they they were jaded with pro athletes at the time. Like, they seemed unreachable. They seemed like they weren't even they they weren't even people that you could talk to. And they saw us in those days killing ourselves, trying, you know, just for the sake of a trick or for a score, and being excited because we did well. There was, you know, for almost no money. And I feel like that shined through. You know, there was something very real and tangible about that, and kids, you know, it was the MTV generation, short attention span, instant action. And so that was like the perfect storm. That combined with our video game release 4 years later, I mean that was like the perfect storm of of, awareness and of popularity. You think I also feel like skateboarding maybe had a little bit more of a subculture to it compared to, like, bungee jumping or something like that. Like I hope so. Yeah. Well, it seems like there's there's music, clothes. For sure. Yeah. Well, there was definitely a lifestyle associated with it, and there was there was an attitude, and and there was a culture that that was born out of, you know, punk rock, seventies, pool skating, clothes, surfing. And so when did you decide, okay, I'm going to dominate every area of it, and I don't know. That was not that was never a That wasn't your world. That was not a conscious decision. No. This is what's gonna happen. Like, what did start happening? Like, when did you start to realize, oh, yeah. This is now happening? When our first video game got released, I I was we worked on it for a few years. I was hugely proud of it, and I knew that the skateboarders would like it, but skateboarders just started calling it the game. And I knew we had a hit then where that's it was like, did you play the game? Have you played the game? You know, that's what they would talk to each other. And I knew that that was something I think when I knew it was beyond anything I ever imagined, we we released our 4th game, and the the previous three titles were still in the top 10. So how many how many total games have you sold with, you know, your your company? I don't know. I know I made What was the other one? It was a 1000000000 in sales, but I don't really know the the exact number of units. So as you were learning to be, essentially, the world champion skateboarder, you learned all these techniques of excellence. What do you think kind of translated over when you started trying to get better at business? I think it was because I'm sure you made miss I'm sure you fell sometimes Oh, yeah. For sure. I think it was the idea of of not not being afraid to fall, of taking risks and and, you know, that that adrenaline rush. Even even in business or throwing money like we did this tour, the Boom Boom Hock Jam, where it was skateboarding, motocross, and BMX in an arena setting where I just designed this ramp setup and no one was gonna push push the button to hit go on that thing. So I designed this crazy ramp setup and it was like, well, we need to get, you know, someone to underwrite it. I'm like, no one's gonna underwrite it. You you gotta you gotta go. And so I wrote a check for a $1,000,000 for the ramps. And it worked out? Yeah. No. That's the ramp that's at my office today. Same ramp. It's the it is ask anyone's best ramp in the world. So what was what was like a bad decision? Yeah. We paid for. What what was what was a bad decision, that you made early on in that in the business? Well, when we had, Birdhouse was under the umbrella of Blitz Distribution, which my partner and I also started. And we really liked doing other startups, so we we started other brands like Baker Skateboards, Hook Ups, Flip, which all are still around today. And he really wanted to do he he had a friend who was a designer, and he wanted to do high end denim. And it was right when, you know, the the the cool washes were coming out, and, and it was very boutique, and I I followed his lead. I said, yeah. Because the the designs were cool and he was definitely ahead of his time. Little did we know that not everyone wanted to pay $200 for jeans, and that it was gonna keep costing us money to produce. And and, basically, the the jean company sucked away our profits for about 2 years, and we sold it for for our debt. And so I learned that I'm not good at high end denim. Or or it could have been do you think it was maybe like off culture a little bit? It was yeah. A little off culture too. Yeah. I mean, it was definitely way outside of our expertise, but we were, you know, we we knew this guy was a good designer. We knew he knew what he was doing. We just didn't realize how much it would cost. And then, you know, this is related to, like, particularly around this mid nineties time, you were starting to get, criticized a little bit because you were the first skateboarder to really take sponsorships from everybody. Sellout. Yeah. So so how did you, a, how did you make decisions in terms of what brands you would, sponsor, and, b, how did you deal with essentially the haters? Well, so the haters I've I've had a lot of criticism all through my career because, firstly, for my style when I was a kid. Like I said, I was a scrawny kid, so I didn't have the surfer style that everyone really liked at the time. I was like I have that style, but, you know. That's why you're such a legend. Yes. There you go. So I my style was all about tricks. And then I just got criticized, but, you know, eventually sort of found my strengths and and did really well in competition and kinda just shut everyone up in in that way. So I was already used to that. So when it came around and and I started getting big endorsements from non skateboard companies, that was the first cry of sellout and it was like, you guys, I I'm in my twenties. I've I've already been through this cycle before and I got to make luckily it was the eighties and there wasn't any YouTube, but, I got to make plenty of mistakes then and and I didn't hold on to my approval rights with products I was doing. So I was just signing my name and stuff, and people were just making junk with my name on it. And so when it came back around to do these bigger endorsements, I held I held on to final approvals, and I had to fight for it. And through that, I feel like Who did you have to fight with for that? Exactly. Company at the time. Well, like, if I was if I was promoting stuff I mean, I did I did endorsements with with Frito Lay with Frito Lay, McDonald's, Bagel Bites, you know, all these different, brands, and I had to fight for final approval over every single thing that had my image, which was a battle for sure. But I'm lucky I did. And so I feel like I I kept my integrity through through those years, but and also at the same time, what I was trying to tell people is, you know, I'm not it's not like I'm suddenly deciding that I I'm, you know, I've lost my moral compa*s. If you had offered me a McDonald's sponsorship when I was 14, I would took it in a heartbeat. I love McDonald's. I see you know, I still do. I I don't care. That's the thing. It was more it was more like the things that I really enjoyed and what I was into. Those are the things that I was willing to promote. And then so then along this along this time, Activision comes along or maybe other video game companies, and then how did you decide, you know that seemed like a huge opportunity. What happened what happened next? That was just intuitive. I I saw I had a couple of I had a couple of, interests from from other companies to do video game, and and I saw what they wanted to create and and basically just kind of waited because I knew that there might be something better, and Activision called and said, hey. We're doing a video game, escape video game. We heard you might be doing 1, or you're you're looking around. Why don't you come see what we're working on? And and so I went to their office, and they had just done a they had just done a, a video game with Bruce Willis called Apocalypse that I guess tanked. But the engine was the basis of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. So the first thing I ever saw was Bruce Willis with a gun strapped to his back on a skateboard, riding through Wasteland doing kick flips. And when I was playing it, I knew immediately, I was like, this is it. This is this is how it should feel. This is intuitive. The controls were already kinda mapped out, but not the way that I would have wanted. But I just felt like I was like, if I if I can lend my resources to this, this is the game. So how many iterations back and forth before you finally had it to where the skateboarder in the video game was performing how you would how you would perform? About a year. Mhmm. About a year back and forth. You didn't feel like, okay, it's good enough. You just wanted to you you felt that No. I dove in. I was I was living that video game. Like, I was definitely, I was talking to them every day. They were sending me well, we were on a PS 1 then, so they'd send me these these burned discs of an update every week. And I would I would play it and give them feedback, and, it was a blast. I mean, we it was like and then I, you know, had to I had to teach Neversoft all about skating, so they would have, like, these company outings to the skate park, and the guys would break their ankles, and it was fun. So it still seems at this point, like, you know, the X Games are still ramping up literally, and you were you were, participating in them in every year. But then there's this one event that happened at a at the relatively advanced stage of, I guess, 31 or 30, 1999. You you on your 12th try, you hit, what's called the 900. Do you wanna describe what what that move was? Because that then it seems like that catapulted everything to another level. Yeah. For sure. Well, that was another And was that a luck thing, would you say? I mean, not luck that you predicted, but I've been trying 9 100s, for about 10 years. I mean, literally, I I tried my first one in 1989. I remember exactly where I was in Bourges, France, and I couldn't really get myself to commit or spin fast enough, but I knew it might be possible one day. So just to describe, what what is it? It's it's 2 and a half It's basically 2 and a half spins in the air. So you go up you go up a ramp forward, spin around, like kinda 2 and a half somersault, and then as you come back down, since you're coming down the same wall, you come down forward. So 7 twenties had been done. I I did my first 7 20 in 1985, and so that was sort of the natural progression of spinning would be 540, 720, 900. And there were only a handful of us that could even try it through the years. And so in the years, I'd say, like, 95 to 97, there was this race for the 900 and there were there were all these guys that were trying it and we all got destroyed. Like we were just, you know, I was breaking ribs and throwing my back out and I'd go I'd go with a camera crew and, you know, it wasn't like it wasn't like big production, it was just more like, hey, do you mind shooting photos today? Do you mind shooting video? Okay. Let's do it. But shooting a video of you breaking bones, basically. Pretty much. Yeah. I I had the video of my first one, it was in 1995. The first one I ever really put down on the wall. I was leaning too far forward and just crashed into the bottom and broke my rib. So I by 99 I'd kind of given up on it. I, you know, I I liked it. I I liked that it was possible, but it was like I I gave it everything when I would do it, you know, and and I just thought I I'm not capable of doing this. And so when the best X Games had a best trick event that night, and my plan was to do a varial 720, which is basically a 720 with spinning your board an extra 180. So your board doesn't have a 100. Almost there. And I did that very early on in the event, and that was all I had planned because that was my hardest trick at the time. That that literally was my best trick. And so I just started spinning 900 more for the crowd and the the announcer actually kinda go to me into it too. He's like, come on. Let's do it. I said, okay. Here he goes. This is what it looks like, you know. And as I was spinning it, every spin was consistent, and that's usually not the case. Usually, it's kinda 1 out of 3 or 4 that feel okay. And so I just said, wow, you know, I could maybe I could try to really make it. And I knew from previous experience that if I shift my weight, if I don't if if I land the way I think I'm gonna land, I'm gonna land too far forward. So if I can shift my weight somehow during mid spin, I can even it out and land, and I started figuring that out In the middle of very quickly in the middle of the spin. In front of a national. Well, the time had expired by then. So for by that time filming. They kept filming, but I thought really I just thought, like, okay. It's not gonna count for this competition, but I still wanna do it. And at that point, I was getting so close that I was like, okay. I'm either gonna make it or they're gonna take me out on a stretcher. That was the only two endings to that night, and then I made it. And And then after that, it was just like crazy. Like everybody It was I mean, that that became like a sports center highlight, and they had never, you know, sport like, X Games was still like their bastard child for ESPN. Even then, it was, you know, it was bigger, but they were still like extreme, bro. You know, it was all kinda silly. And then and then that when that happened, it it transcended skateboarding, in terms of their recognition of it. And so and this is while you were building this multimillion dollar, you know, clothing I well, no. No. No. I I the so things were just starting to happen then, and but but it was, I mean, it it it was the most perfect timing. It it was not intentional, but it was the most perfect timing because our video game was released 2 months later. And so but it it seems though it's what really is successful here is not any one thing, but the complete immersion across the board. So you're landing the best trick, putting out a video game, doing all the sponsorship stuff. So without all of it combined, probably wouldn't have, you know, created the huge business that you were able to create. Or what's your what's your take on that? Yeah. I don't know if I would have become a business per se after that. I mean, that that was after that in the video game, that's when I became Tony Hawk Inc, which seems super strange, but that's just how it had to be. And, and then I was able to well, that was that was a good out from competition, was that year. So then I got to explore more opportunities, and because I had this this awareness that transcended just the skate industry, I was able to open new doors and opportunities, and that's when we started the Boom Hacham, the tour. I started doing much bigger endorsements, and I started foundation that was right around the same time. And how do you think do you think that same idea of immersion translates to, many other areas? Like, let's say, even other sports or other activities? Like, everybody here is an entrepreneur, and, you know, how what what does total immersion mean? And, like what does the what does the concept mean? I think it's it's just living living passionately and and diving in head first into whatever you're doing. It's almost like you're so you're so into it that you don't even realize it's being successful. I guess that's how I feel about it. When when those all those things were happening, it was amazing to me, but I just wanted to keep going and keep doing the next thing and learning even learning new tricks. Even today, like, I'm still trying to learn new tricks, but that's that's the drive. And so as long as you're still trying to challenge yourself and still trying to improve on whatever you're doing, it'll be you'll keep being successful at it. So even though you're not doing the mega ramps anymore, are you still trying in some ways Yeah. To improve every day? Yeah. Because I I've kinda shifted my focus to much more technical skating, low more low impact. Does that mean? What's a technical skating? Technical is just like like doing really complicated tricks with the board, but not at great heights. So new ways to flip it, landing in grinds, and combinations, and things like that. I mean, the stuff the stuff that I'm doing now, I'll I'll make one out of a 100 tries, maybe. But as long as I got on a video, it's good. Well, I saw a couple months ago, you built this, you built from scratch. You had someone build it this downward spiral ramp, which I had never seen before. And then they show the video of you going on it again and again, falling constantly, and then moving the mattresses down lower and lowers because you would keep crashing into the mattresses until, finally, they removed them. So how many tries did that take? And you were 47 years old. So Yeah. That well, that's something that I've, see that that's an example of keeping creative control. So that was an idea I had a long time ago because we've done we do full loops, like a Hot Wheels loop. Right? And we actually incorporated that into our Huck Jam tour. And I thought, what if you turn that sideways so you actually try to stick on a vertical wall like that? And I I brought it to my, guy who runs our ride channel on video production. He said, hey, you know, we should ask Sony if they wanna do something like that. And so we pitched it to Sony and they said, yeah, we're in. Go for it. You have here's the budget. Do it. And so, it was totally our our thing, but funded by Sony, which was amazing. Do you always look for a partner like that when you're selling a new thing? Yeah. I try to. Yeah. I mean, I don't wanna pay for it. I think that's a good lesson. Yeah. And so they said, yeah. And it was funny though because we we put the thing up and and I I mean, I was fairly confident, but I didn't know if it was gonna work. And they had all these Sony suits there watching, which was super strange. You know, like these corporate Sony dudes are just standing on the ramp, like, well, when does this thing gets going? When's the when's the big event? And it's just me, like, slamming and cussing and And and you were you were bleeding, like, in the video. Yeah. There was blood. Yeah. I mean, I anticipated some falls for sure, but if you really watch it from start to finish, you can see that I keep getting further and further. I figuring it out, and then, it finally worked. So, you know, I have a a final question, but and then, I'm sure everyone here has has some questions. But, many people might not know your son, Riley, is an incredible street skater, which is a different style than Yeah. What you had mastered. And watching his videos are incredible. What what was that like, what would you suggest so I'm a father of a 17 year old. What would you suggest as even advice, like, did you for someone who wants to kind of push their kid in a direction? Or not push, but, I don't know how to ask this. Like, obviously, this was happy to you, a happy event that your kid was following in your footsteps. Did you push him in any way? I did. Actually, well, I I had a heart to heart with him when he was about 15 or 16 because he was riding motorcycles. He was surfing. He was snowboarding, and he was way more proficient at skating. And, he kept talking about how he's gonna try to get this motorcycle sponsor. And, I mean, I know I know freestyle motocross. He wasn't that good at it. You know? But he enjoyed it, but he kept talking about it. And we didn't really have the resources to to get him, you know, to the track and to enough, frequently enough that it was really gonna benefit him. And and he was also talking about, like, maybe a surf sponsor, and I said, Riley, I know, like, you're you're good at those things, but you're exceptional at skateboarding. You're you're already way better than most kids your age. You know? And I know you like, it's hard to go from beneath my shadow, but you do have your own style. You have your own direction, and, you know, you don't have to follow my footsteps necessarily, but you do have an opportunity here. And I think that that was the that was when he really started to focus on skating only. And did you did you initially teach him some of the He just grew up around it. I mean, he when when he was young is when we started birdhouse when when it was very lean times. And so if I got the opportunity to travel, he just came with me. So, like, when I'm talking about those 6 Flags parking lot demos, he was over in the corner playing with his, Power Rangers during my demos. Not this is not a joke. Alright. Well, I'm gonna It's kinda sad because I couldn't afford childcare, so but but then he, you know, he he grew to love like, that could have turned him away from it. Absolutely. Just that he was forced, you know, not not forced to do it, but it was just around him all the time. It was like, yeah, it could have been, you know, I'm sick of it, but he he embraced it. He loved it. Well, and again, there's this immersion aspect too. He saw every part of of the culture of it as well. Yeah. Even more than these other sports. Yeah. I think so. So I I wanna open it up to anybody to ask questions. So take 2 or 3 questions. Of course, from the sports, sports coach here. Extraordina. Tony, I'd love to hear as you were, like, developing your businesses, who gave you some really strong business advice that would be, you know, people that we wouldn't really recognize or essentially people from maybe your industry as well or sports that kinda said, hey. You know, I've had some experience in this as well, and maybe here's some things you should be thinking about as you're kind of scaling up your own personal brand and some of these licensing deals that you've been doing. And and and what and how how that advice ended up playing out with some of the businesses. Well, I think that, well, my my sister helped me immensely. She she, used to be a sing she was a singer for Righteous Brothers and for Michael Bolton and and so she really knew entertainment. And when she saw things ramping up for me, she just had just had, twins, and she said, well, you know, I'd love to help you because you're kind of moving into entertainment. Like, that's that's what's happening here even though you're still skating as much. And, she was the one who fought for me to keep control of my brand. She's like, you gotta keep control of you know, because she saw the stupid stuff I did in the eighties. Like, there was there was a story I've told it, but I was working with this one company, and they were making just terrible items. And they were, like, ripping off logos and putting my name on it, and they're making wallets and key chains. And I went to their office one day because I was sick of it, and I just wanted to say, hey. You know, you can't do this. And they said, well, actually, yeah. We can. We signed your name. We have free rein to do whatever we want with it. And while he's talking, behind him, I'm not kidding, there's a roll of toilet paper. This is Tony Hawk gear on it. I was, like, what is that? And he said, oh, well, one of the retailers said, you know, so you put toilet paper you put his name on toilet paper and it would sell, and so we made that for them, like, and he's thinking, like, isn't that funny? I'm, like, this this sucks, and I I, that day, went and and paid to get out of my contract. But I learned from that, but I also learned, like I said, from my sister, she said, you gotta you gotta keep your creative control. You've gotta we have to stand hard on that in the contracts. And and it's weird being a person and a brand, but that was how I really kept control of the brand. And and I I tell that to business startups all the time, you know, don't let someone else take what you have created because they're not gonna they're not gonna take in the direction that you think they are or that you want them to, unless you really just wanna cash out. Let me get Yannick. And your sister is your COO, isn't she? Yeah. And how long has she been your COO? Since, almost 20 years now. Wow. That's actually right in the same direction that I was gonna ask you. So working with family, pros, cons, what's, what's been the the best part about it? What's the the best the worst part that you can actually mention? Or what do you wanna look out for? Because I I work with family. It's it I mean, it's hard to have the when things aren't going well, those you don't wanna you don't wanna have the blame game, obviously. And, I think we give each other enough space and respect each other in terms of what our strengths are. But definitely, we butt heads, and and, you know, that can be tricky because it's your family. But, you just I think you just have to have a mutual respect for what you're doing and not think that one of us is is above the other in any in any time. And, you know, there are times when she'll she's like, what do you when when I first started doing social media, she just didn't really understand it, and then she saw how it blossomed. And and then she started figuring out better ways to use it as well. But, like, I I even today, I had a conversation with her. I got invited to go to Snapchat headquarters on behalf of Nixon, and I don't really know what that means. You know? But but I knew that it would probably get my Snapchat followers up because they're gonna probably promote me, you know, in in on their main whatever page or on Snapchat. And so and so she's like, why do you you know, we don't you don't owe that to Nixon or this is a conversation we just had. Like, you don't owe that to Nixon or to Tilly's was part of it, and, I said, yeah, but if I go there, then my Snapchat numbers will go up and that'll raise my, you know, that'll raise my, my value in terms of doing social media marketing. And that's been this really strange new, venture is is doing social media ads, and it's it's good money. It's crazy. And they trust me to to do it in my own voice, so, that's been a blast. Cool. But I need my Snapchat numbers up. We got Cole over here. Hey, Tony. I just don't have a question. I just wanna say thank you. I watched you in the half pipe, and I wanted one so bad I came to my parents, and they said if I want a half pipe, I had to pay for it. So I was probably I don't know. To pay for it. Well, so check this out. I literally it was about Christmas time I pulled mistletoe out of trees that was growing naturally and packaged them up and sold them door to door to save up enough money to pay for my first half pipe, which was the creation and the the first thing I did entrepreneurially, which launched my career. So so I just wanna say thank you because I'm one of millions of people you've done that for. So thank you. Thank you. That that is one of the coolest story about putting a ramp I've ever heard. Well, k. We'll we'll take two quick ones, and then I know Tony is hanging around just for a little bit longer after that. So Yeah. My 10 year old self is super excited to be talking to you. So That's great. I would be like So I I had posters of you and your peers up on my wall, and I'm curious as to what you think the difference is now looking back between you and those other guys that were up there of how you were able to make the moves you did to establish the brand and make the decisions, and a lot of them did not did not fare so well or make the same decisions. What what what do you credit that to now looking back? I think that, well, for me, early on, I never rested on my laurels. I always wanted to learn new tricks. So even though I was considered number 1 competitor or number 1 overall or whatnot, I I that wasn't the drive. The drive was to to keep challenging myself, to keep getting better. And so, I I think that's where some, you know, some of my peers as well, they got caught up in the in the celebrity party aspect, and it was almost like they they reached this this pinnacle and it's like, well, that's it. There's no there's nothing else, or they lost their motivation. And I never lost my motivation because my motivation was just about tricks. It was just super nerdy. But that is what helped me sort of make it through those formative years and and and those times when I could have got caught up in the party. And, and I knew that I guess I I knew early on that that I couldn't get into that aspect of it, like, the the whole party scene because it was gonna affect my performance, and I was too proud of how I skated to be able to to to think that I wanna do anything that would hinder that. And we got our last one here with Kevin. Hey, Tony. In all this mayhem, you're like the bad guy. Right? And cocaine's a hell of a drug. Yeah. No doubt. So the Pappas brothers, you know, they sort of make you the bad guy. I was just curious about your side of that story and, what your relationship was with those guys and, you know, some of the other old guys like Alvin and those guys. There's just so much that is left out of that. You know? And and there's it was it was very easy for them to make me the this villain. What they didn't say about that was that, what he's talking about, there's this documentary where basically this this skater who got super strong out on drugs and so did his his brother who killed his girlfriend and also killed himself. And it's just a really tragic story, and I never spoke up about it because he was basically saying that I sold the idea for the 900 from him, and I somehow banned him from the X Games. I had nothing to do with anyone competing in X Games, by the way. I was a competitor. And so in his version of this story, I methodically watched him try this trick, which I I didn't really watch him. I watched another guy who was trying it because another guy another guy was way closer than him, but, then I watched him try it. I figured out how to do it, and then I saved it for the X Games, and I got him banned, and then I did it, and my whole life and career was all planned out, including video games, including sponsorships. It was all it was all a big master plan that I had, at his expense. That's his story, and people that watch the documentary, they they just believe it. They believe this, you know, this guy who was a hardcore drug addict, and it's just unfortunate. Like, I just don't wanna talk about it because the whole story is so tragic that it's like, who cares about this stupid trick? Why would I wanna fight this? You know what I mean? Why why would I wanna fight this whole story or try to vindicate myself when there's just too much other important aspects to it? So, what they didn't say was, Danny Way was the first one to try a 900. He's where everyone got the idea because he really was the first one to really get close to it. There was a guy there were there were about 5 of us chasing it at the time. I was the first one that thought of it because I did a 7 20 first, so that kinda seems to go without saying that if I did a 540, I learned a 720, what's next? I better wait for Tusk to figure that out. So, anyway, it's so weird to be talking about this, but, so there were other best trick events during that time, and Tas would show up and just try 9 hundreds during the best trick events. I knew better than to try a trick I've never done before in a best trick event, so he never placed in the best trick events because he was just focused on this one trick that he couldn't make, And I believe that's why they didn't choose him for the X Games because he had never placed, so he was not qualified to be in an event like that. But in his version of the story, that's the only best trick event that ever existed. And so that's you know? It's it's just such a it's such a bummer that that that the the bummer for me is that that is his reality, you know, in his distorted view, and it's not the truth. And I wish he I wish he could accept the truth. But we've we've kinda made some amends through social media recently, and, you know, I've I've I've spoken my side of the story only because the media was just coming after me, and I was trying to be quiet. And finally, I was like, okay. Here it is. Here's what happened. But it's just it's it's weird, man. It's weird to watch it's weird to watch a whole sort of string of lies about you presented in that way. I never thought there was someone I have to deal with. So I got a last Did I answer it? Yeah. I know. Did I did I go on too long? I got I got a last quick one. Protest too much? I I got a last quick one about the the hoverboard, fiasco. I guess that was one of the Fiasco. It was a little bit of a a media thing. Were you aware that it wasn't, I guess, legit to some degree? I mean, there was there was a your name is So there's there's there are different levels to this. You're speaking of the fake hoverboard Yes. Video that other celebrities are involved with. Okay. I got asked to do that because it was Funny or Die that did it. They Funny or Die called me and said, hey. We have the original setup from Back to the Future hoverboard, the the stunt rig. Do you wanna do something and and and Doc's gonna do it? What's his name? Christopher Lloyd. I was like, yeah. Back to the Future stunt rig. Christopher Lloyd. I'm in. And it's for funny or die. So I'm thinking it's for a funny spoof video. Right? They like the way it turned out so much that they just presented like it was real and then didn't say anything. And so everyone, you know, eventually people figure out that it's fake and they're all pissed at me And all the heat came down on me because I I'm the only one who's really accessible in that video and and through social media. So talk about a hate storm. Like, people were really really mad at me, like, you lied to how could you lie to us? Like like their dreams, like, as if this was their only dream in life was that a hoverboard was real, and I have shattered that completely. So I I took it upon myself and I was like, I'm gonna just say what happened, and I made this apology video. So that was that, and that was weird. And then just a few months later, this company called me and said, hey. We we have a real hoverboard. I was like, I don't I don't wanna be the hoverboard guy. And they said, well, you know, do you wanna if you wanna come ride it? And I was like, oh, well, we, you know, we had just started our YouTube channel, ride channel, that was funded by by Google, and I thought, well, that that'd probably be a big boost for Ride Channel. Like, let's go up there and check it out. And so we went up to, Los Gatos, at Hendo and rode the real hoverboard, which is not anything like back to the future. It's super loud. It's impossible to control, but it hovers. And if you stand on it, it'll start spinning, so you can do a 900. Awesome. Thank you very much. Alright. Thanks.
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