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The Jordan Harbinger Show

Spycraft utilizes psychology more than gadgets. Ex-CIA officer Andrew Bustamante reveals the human side of intelligence gathering and deception. [Pt. 1/2]

What We Discuss with Andrew Bustamante:

  • After becoming the youngest US Air Force Officer in history to command 200 nuclear ICBMs from an underground bunker and spending seven years in the CIA, Everyday Spy founder Andrew Bustamante gives us an inside look into the recruitment and training process for CIA officers.
  • The CIA uses personality assessments and carefully constructed team dynamics to build high-performance teams, often pairing people who may not naturally get along to create productive conflict.
  • Lie detection through visual cues like micro-expressions is largely ineffective outside of controlled interrogation settings. More reliable methods involve establishing baselines and asking specific types of questions.
  • Effective lying requires preplanning and rehearsal to align the rational and emotional parts of the brain. Spontaneous lying is much riskier and easier to detect.
  • Understanding the RICE framework (Reward, Ideology, Coercion, Ego) can help you better motivate yourself and others in positive ways. This powerful tool for influencing behavior ethically will be explored further in part two later this week.
  • And much more — be sure to check out part two of this conversation later this week!

Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1064

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Wholeheartedly with Kendall and Galey
01:22:16 8/7/2024

Transcript

Welcome back, everybody, to episode four, whole heartedly with Kendall and Greely and Gailey. I would like for me to say your name. We can switch names for the day. Are we are we freaky Friday? I'm into it. All right. I'm going to say your name with Kendall and Daly. Where's the beef? And we were so excited to be back here with you today and what you guys didn't hear that just happened. I pre-recording is I've been going through this thing. It started about four months ago where I sneezed and I coughed at the exact same time. And now it's like muscle memory. I can't undo it. Every single time I sneeze it, it's like there's a huge cough that happens in the middle of the season. And Kendall calls it a. We were talking about this and I was like, Girl, you soft. It's a thin off. It's a sneeze cough. No, it's a straight snot. And it is so embarrassing in public. And it's gotten to the point where Dell doesn't know if he should say bless you. Or sometimes he just says advertising because he doesn't. He doesn't even know how to respond to it. So we just heard thing German way. It's because I'm German. Says goodbye. Yeah, it does. Because he's like, I'm out. But he's also a little bit concerned. Like the first few times it happened, he was like, Are you messing with me? And then it became like, Hey, babe, are you OK? And now it's just like, it's just how I sound off. So that just happened. I love that. The thing that I will say to you, though, like, prepare ourselves because or yourself? Because one day after kids, apparently when you sneeze, you also pee a little bit. So you're going to snap off and take a little dribble. You know, you're going to snap. If we let our hover snuff, we now for a very, very French day, which makes it sound more elevated. I like it. Speaking of Dow, I have it. I've held this off in our conversation so that I can bring it to your attention in the pod because I just feel like I need a little support here. But we have this debate happening in our household, which is should a man stand or sit to pee. And I see that coming from a household with two brothers and a father, all who sit to pee. Now I know that like my dad's from Germany, so that's kind of the European way. And then I think my brothers just took after my dad, but that's what I experienced growing up. And yet every guy I've ever dated has stood in the this flashback I have had to clean up over the years is not OK. And so I'm setting a boundary, and I have now asked my man to say when he pees, How where are you on this? Because Shadow Man is very tall, which means a flashback is very high and you might be clean and walls you might clean in like the outside of the ball. But where we are? OK, so first off, we're I'm lucky with Shadow Man is that he's such and like clean, maybe like light OCD level of cleanliness like to the point we have in the bathroom upstairs. It's got a black countertop, right? So there is a little like dark washcloth that if there are water droplets on the countertop after like you wash your hands or like, brush your teeth or something. That is the rag that we use to wipe off the droplets because I'm a little bit more like Freeform. I'm like, whatever, it's fine at the sink. He is much more like, I want it super clean. So I have not had this problem with flashback, even given his height and the projecting angle of, I guess, urine. I know it's impressive. I was making like a little square and then dropping it in there, so it has like a plot for him to absorb. And then it doesn't splash back because because a person, a person that has like a washcloth just sitting on your countertop for four potential water droplets stains is the same person that might spare square before, like the die spirit square. I mean, it makes sense. Honestly, it's almost like it's almost like a trampoline or a little bit like it does. It creates like a little bowl to catch. I don't. I don't know, to be honest, I think we're early enough in our relationship. Like we're not the kind of couple that piece with the door open. Oh, no, I don't like that. I think that's weird. I think certain things should be kept in private and bodily functions like that should be. I haven't had an issue. I don't know. Maybe he does. I should ask him. He might say it. I mean, he's very he's very cultured. He's very well traveled. He's got family like not too far off from living in Europe. So maybe I I don't know. Should I texted him right now, I want to text him an outcome have. Full disclosure. This is a request I have. Just when you're in my home, right? I'm not expecting you to be in a public bathroom and sitting when you can just stand. No, that's gross in the urinal like that. I prefer you. Because that's nasty. But in our home, right, if we're taking our shoes off to keep everything clean, then we shouldn't also be OK walking on a bathroom floor that has a little splash back on it, you know, it's just gross. Like, I already lived in New York for five years. I say lived like, I'm not still currently there, but I'm not at the current moment anyway. The amount of pee and Kaka and nasty things on the ground, like the way that I learned very quickly to take your shoes off the second you go into somebody's home. It is a cardinal sin. You are deplorable. You are from the seventh circle of hell. If you take your shoes and you walk into my home, let alone. The other thing that's a big one is if you put your damn street clothes on, my clean a*s bed are never going to. We're going to fight. We're going to fight. We're done. It's over. Get out. You nasty, nasty vermin now. So I believe that even if you shower before you go out to dinner or wherever late deal, for example, you get paid to go to these NBA games and like said and do posts and stuff. And so it's work, right? It's work late at night where he's going to get home at 11:00 or midnight from Miami being at a game and he looks nice. He showered before he left at five p.m. It's now midnight and he's about to crawl into bed while actually on the floor next to me in the couch. I'm sleeping when bright like, girl, I need to come and help. I'm like, I look at him like, you smell like outside you. You have your skin has been outside your hair has been outside. You've been sitting in seats that thousands of other people have sat in that have not been sanitized. You can't just change clothes and go to bed. I look at him just I don't even have to say anything. I just give him the look and he's like, You want me to shower? And I'm like, I thought I was the only one that was that way, but I could not agree more with you. I don't know if it's like a germophobe thing. Oh wait, I don't know if I can keep that. I look back and vacancy that. Oh, pretty shot of you back. Do you sit or stand while you is that high random? Do you take it back? He goes, L-O-L, and then he goes after sex. Sometimes it's like, Go, wait, are you too tired? I think that you why I've actually heard dealers told me that after you have sex, it's very hard for men to pee, which I get because isn't it, guys? I should know biology. Right? I know my. I know my pieces. I know my Legos. I don't know necessarily a man, but isn't it the same? It's the same pathway. It's the same highway where it all comes out. Yeah. And I and I think biologically right, there's no way that you can do both at the same time, because that could be horrible if that happened at the wrong time, if you know what I mean. Right. So I think I think the body literally like s**t, shuts like the bridges quote, Do not pass go. And then once everything's going down, all the cars are gone. Then the bridge the bridge goes back is so screwed up that I was thinking about the bridge in Florida that we were on going over to my hotel singing Florida by Taylor Swift. Oh, I don't know. Bridge went up there like, Oh, that must be what happened in their bodies. It's like, Oh, we're not going to this area of play and we're going into the other land where there's other things where you should be sitting your a*s on that that plate and making sure Gailey doesn't have to clean up after you there right over there is extremely clean and hygienic. But he's also a very, very tall, and he's got a strong stream. So, you know, maybe. Well, that's very good. I'm happy for his prostate. That's great. Oh my gosh, we really try to make these podcast out of Tim, and I'm not sure how we're being additive guys, right? But thanks for being with us, and please feel free to respond to our Instagrams and let us know if you're like that. Please or stand. I don't care. Yeah, because if the overwhelming majority is said, please, I'm definitely going to be sharing it with Dale. I just I just need a little support here. I think we just need data points like I would also like to know, I know, I know we have men that listen, and I would love to know your thoughts. Maybe it is a conditional situation, you know, like obviously not in public that there's been a lot of people at the public toilet, but, you know, with love feedback, love feedback. I cannot believe I'm like, I'm thinking everything. I just I just had a flashback. Oh God, I cannot believe about it. So a few years ago, I matched with somebody on Hinge, and he lived in Canada and he was a professional lacrosse player. I don't. I know, I know I got a problem. I got a problem. So we we went on a first date to dinner. Everything was good. And then for the second date, we were, I don't know, he was going to. They wanted to meet the dogs or something like that. So he stopped by my house and quote unquote wanted to meet the dog. Come on, we know that why I wouldn't have dinner. You know how that goes? So why wanted you meet Charlie and Paige? And I guess I had him at that time and I and he he wanted to use the restroom and I was downstairs doing something. So I guess he just felt more comfortable going upstairs to the second floor and like using the guest bedroom, red flag, bathroom. Well, I think it was because, you know, he wasn't I that one and he didn't work with like your now anything. So he just went to the other part of the house and I was like, whatever, he can see himself up there, so I'm downstairs. And about thirty two minutes later, Canadian walks around the corner and he is right, right? And I'm like, Wait, what happened? Are you? Are you OK? And he's like, So we have a little problem and clogged my toilet. And when I say clogged, I mean, when I went up there before I even open the bathroom door, I saw poop water flowing from my tile bathroom floor under the door onto my hardwood floors. And so I'm just like sitting here thinking like. It's one thing if I know you, but like to clean up a complete strangers locker and brought in water and it's just everywhere. And like he didn't know how to shut off the water to stop it from flowing. It just let. I'm just going to say there was not a third day. I'm like gagging. I'm not visiting my God. Oh my God, it by God is so bad. It was so and I felt I felt bad for him. Can you imagine if that happened? But it actually happened, and I would rather make somebody else's toilet than mine, get clogged and ruin my house and have to clean it up. And I just thought, you know. I need to breathe this again. I'm really like, I have a really bad gag reflex. Like, like when I think of that or like if someone pukes in front of me, I came over even see it on screen. Can't do it. So that alone over. Oh, oh my gosh, you don't live there anymore, right, because I would move immediately, I would absolutely move. Oh, I definitely live here, but I'm renovating the whole house. So there you go. Oh, it was. It was my house. Oh, I got. I got this house when I was 24. Wow. Are you bad a*s? It's such a gorgeous house. It is so beautiful. And you think, Yeah. Yeah, I've worked really hard on it. I feel like every time I come back, there's a new project. I remember you just the first time I was at your house when you were going driving to the airport after he finally like hung out in person. When I was sitting at the one, you were doing the outside. I did the backyard. Stunning? Yeah. And then I remember touring it, and then I saw the kitchen. Well, this last time, oh no, I didn't see it in person. And then now we're going to see the whole house. When it's done, it is going to be amazing. And I come help, though, I need you in a bed. Yeah, for the sanctity of your sleep and just for your like relationship. Can I please help you build your bedroom? We are in the 11th hour. I think the house is going to be done soon and then I can focus my attention on energy. I will have. We told them this year. Officially, I don't think I've shared it yet. Yeah, I think we set it in episode one. I think that they OK. Yeah, but I'm going to I'm going to be doing in your house and you talked about how like you see a different side of me and I get very direct with my decision making. Yeah, it's very impressive. I was also like I had needed. My brain had needed the conversation like an hour before. I need to send you photos, though, because now I'm officially an owner of two two stories of cinder blocks and some two by fours on the inside. But it looks really I mean, it's the frame of it, right? But it's super exciting that obviously the foundations down the plumbing, the raw plumbing, then it's weird. It's so weird. The view out of the back is going to be insane, though so pretty. I'm really, really excited for you guys. We're we're obsessing over every detail about this house. I was on probably eight emails yesterday, back and forth where I wanted. I wanted them to send me actual videos with full sound of the different door options they have closing inside the house. I'm talking just your standard like room bedroom doors because I was trying to determine which ones had the loudest clothes and and were like the most real way. And these people are probably like Kendall, this girl. Gailey is psycho. She's literally making us send her videos of the doors closing so she can differentiate the sound of the clothes. And I'm like, Details matter, guys. They matter what? It's so true, though. No, actually, Melanie, who was on that email drain retain train. Why? As they train, there is a lot of cars that got added, and I'm the caboose because I only pop in at the bottom. I'm like, Oh, cool, y'all got it. Thank you so much. I have always the caboose of an email. I'm like, Great, great, great. Great, great, great. Great, awesome cheerleader at the end. But yeah, so Melanie texted. She goes, crazy. Love how thorough Gailey is. Oh my gosh. Like, I totally agree. It was actually really lovely. Everybody completely supported the process, but I remember going through it. I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's two different videos of doors closing, and then I listen back to them like eight times. I'm like, Damn, daily is totally right. Like, you could hear the the thud difference. It was like a deeper, more solid. It was like it was like a gold medal versus like a bronze medal. You know what I mean? Like, you could hear the difference in the in the in the density of it. It was great. So well done. Well done on your decisionmaking making. It's like the difference from like a real brass facet versus a brass powder coated facet that's just like stainless steel underneath or something, right? Like you just, you know, when something is real and I care about how it feels. So, yeah, sweat the small stuff makes your house beautiful. Yeah. So like, I haven't seen brass and bronze and gold. Can we please? Can we please talk about the Olympics? Because I have been yelling at the TV like little tears and then getting the updates from Olympic Village? Like, truly, social media has been fantastic simply because I need to see these athletes live their best lives and make these skits like there's so many funny things that are happening out of there. It is the content we all have needed. There's a lot of really awful, sad things happening in the world right now. There is a very impetuous political atmosphere that just has kind of people on edge right now and then to have this globally unifying experience of the Olympics and just watching people who have worked so hard and deserve every ounce of coverage and success and support that they're getting, this is. I don't know. It just makes me believe in humanity again. I don't know how to explain it. Yeah, I think it's watching, especially too. When you get to you, get into these packages and you learn about these athletes, right? Like, for me, it's the gymnasts, predominantly just because I have so much respect for how difficult that sport is not only physically, but it's the mental game of it that makes it so unbelievably challenging, especially to rise through the ranks, especially with all of the scandal that's happened in USA Gymnastics. Simone Biles is single handedly like my personal superhero. I love that woman. I love that, and I love the the way you see them supporting each other, right? I mean, she's obviously the star of the team, but you don't sense an ounce of jealousy or a competitiveness with each other. It's literally they see themselves as one team like make a unit and there's something so, so inspiring and comforting about seeing women so excited and cheerful for another woman success with gymnastics. And I think maybe you can relate to this too, as an athlete and as someone who competed for so much of your life. I grew up in combat. Of gymnastics, that's where it all kind of started for me, and that's also when my OCD really started to manifest was when I was participating in the sport and was so focused on that like perfectionism. And it's wonderful to watch gymnastics, but it also like it pulls me back to that headspace. I was at the little girl and just the intensity of the situation. It's kind of a weird duality. How old were you? Oh, I started when I was five or six, I think, and then I quit, right about 11. What happened when you were five in gymnastics that you think started or triggered the start of your OCD? The sport itself and the way when I was coming up in gymnastics, it was very old. School was very like Russian ideology, kind of like ballet where it was hard and it was intense. Sure, when you're five, it's not, you know, you start out in the ball pit and doing little tumbles and somersaults. But then once you kind of start to show some promise and you have some power and you start tumbling and things like that, the the competitive nature gets very real, very quickly. You kind of are forced to grow up very fast and there is this really heavy demands on your body. And I think the worst part is that the way that it's scored at that time, it was out of town. It wasn't this new scoring system that they have now. So it was all about perfectionism. It was all about pointing your toes. It was all about, you know, having the smile before you start your routine and all of these little steps. You were this perfect flipping, strong, beautiful, kind of like badass ballerina is the best way to put it. And the expectation that you are being judged on how you're perceived. So I think that probably created a self-awareness that I already had as someone who has the brain that I naturally do. And it made me very self-aware of my strengths and my weaknesses and how everybody was looking at me all the time. And what signs did you see early on that reduced your clinical diagnosis of obsessive compulsive disorder? Mm hmm. So what was funny? Obviously, when you're in the gym, you're barefoot, right? You're barefoot, you're doing four routines all that your feet get really dusty with chalk and you have to have chalk. And you know it just that the gym, there's always chalk floating around in the air, and I would obsessively where I remember going into the bathroom after like a three or four hour training session because I was, like, really committed to it. I thought I was going to be an Olympian in my head. I was that little kid that was had the big dreams and like, really was high pressure on myself. And remember, I'd go into the bathroom at the gym and I'd wash my feet off because I hated when the chore would be in my slides. Remember, like the Adidas slides that had the little yes, yes, the soccer ones would drop me, but I can hear the velcro. You did not. And so those Adidas slides, I already felt sweaty and gross and very chalky after practice. But then I'd go into the bathroom and I would put my feet up into the sink and I'd wash my feet. And what's really interesting? I am not kidding to this day. I am a grown woman who is in her 30s. If my feet are even slightly sweaty before I go to bed, I have to wash my feet in the sink before I go to bed for me to be able to fall asleep. And it started then because I was getting the chalk off of my feet. And I think the irritation of that and also the irritation, it's like I was washing off the expectations everybody had on me in that sport. And it really, I think, was one of the first moments where I was trying to self-soothe and take control back. And then I remember you telling me just previously during one of our talks that something was something was happening with your feet later on that made made it very obvious that you had a compulsive disorder, that is what had your parents bring you to see a doctor to get diagnosed. Work through it. Yeah. So a big thing for me was I could never be barefoot other than when I was at gymnastics for gymnastics practice because I knew I had to be barefoot at practice, right? You're not going to do anything with socks on there, but I could not be barefoot in any other situation. I couldn't be barefoot in the grass, like running down the hill that my family's house was on. Like I, I could not be barefoot. All I had to wear socks. And I had to have clean socks and they had to be a certain way. And then that led into my nighttime rituals, which my whole bedtime routine. God bless my mom and my dad, Morley. More so my mom, because my dad was traveling a lot for work, but I had to go to the bathroom a certain number of times. I had to flip the light switch, a certain number of ways I had to have socks on. And then when I was tucked into bed, my mom would have to quote unquote this what we call that she had a mummify me so she would have to like essentially swaddle me in in my comforter for me to be able to sleep. And then my mind would just race like I remember struggling to sleep even as a little kid and just being so mentally stimulated and then thinking if I didn't follow my routine perfectly, oh gosh, this is terrible. As I'm saying this, I haven't thought about this in a really long time, and it's maybe it's like making my heart race, which is so interesting where those that part of you like always there. I was convinced if I didn't complete my routine properly, something bad would happen to my parents. Like, I thought, I had this otherworldly ability that I would be punished or someone that I love would be taken away if I didn't follow my routine to a tee. And it became so debilitating that I didn't want to go to a therapist. But my mom and my dad were like, You know, we're just going to meet with somebody, you're going to play board games and talk. And that's when the diagnosis came down. I would go like once a week and work on coping strategies. But I think the intensity of gymnastics, I think the intensity of. Always trying to control and trying to create perfection and trying to master all of these really difficult skills. Put an expectation in my brain that I like, had to do everything right and I had to control it. So the things that I couldn't control in, you know, how quickly I could pick up a skill or pick up a new floor pass or beam routine. I would go home and I would be able to control how you know, how clean my feet were, or at least my bedtime routine. So I had it. Do you have anything like that? Because I know you've been. I'm still going through that as an adult, really, to the extent that I know when I'm not OK because I become. Hyperactive and cleaning to the point that I'll clean the same thing over and over and over just because it makes me feel like I have a sense of control. Right, if I'm waiting on a contract to come back and we're negotiating and we're going back and forth, and I have no idea if it's going to go my way or not. And if we're going to come to an agreement or if it's all just going to be for nothing and it's going to be lost. And I don't really have that much control in that situation. And so I will I will clean the kitchen over and over. Not to the point that, you know, I'm cleaning the same countertop wines, but it's still clean because I cleaned it yesterday. But I still need to do one for pass through because for some reason it alleviates my anxiety. And I think it does that because it gives me something different to focus on other than the thing that I can't control. And then it gives me this false sense of control. But in reality, this is actually controlling me, and I'm even more out of control because I can't control the fact that I have this crazy proclivity and need to just keep keep cleaning this place to make it feel better. And so when I catch myself in that situation where logically, I know this is clean and I don't need to clean it again, but I have this desire to. I remind myself that I don't want this to also control me, and then I do something physical with my body. Like, I go for a run or I go in the yard and I do yoga on the grass feet. Sorry, cannot be proud of you. But you know, I just like I start every day by blowing off the yard and cutting leaves and just making sure everything looks clean out there because it kind of grounds me. And even though it is cleaning, in a sense, it allows me to feel grounded and calm. That's interesting because it is like this infinite loop when you're in that OCD cycle, where you're following the same patterns that it's controlling you. So you get that false dopamine hit of like, Oh, I have this controlled, I'm the same way. That's why cooking for me has been my escape, because when I moved to New York, I couldn't be outside. And that's usually what I did when I was in California. I would go in the car from USC if I was being really overwhelmed, and I started to note that I was having trouble being barefoot. Like, That's my alarm bell today. If I am getting really, you know, focused on my feet or I start feeling like creepy crawly, like I feel dirty or I'm focused like, Oh. And that's when I know I have to match an unhealthy action with a healthy action to make it null and void to just get back to base. And it's so funny because hearing you talk about when you were a widow, there were all of these signs that you knew you had OCD. For me, I remember I was in, I want to see fourth grade and I had in my bedroom on my shelves. I had encyclopedias, a through z like really old school wines on a shelf in the corner of my bedroom, up high, really old. You never really notice them. My dad was suspecting that I was obsessive about things. And so to test it out one day when I left for school, he went in and switched the the Y and the W in the rest of A through z on his top shelf in the corner of my bedroom and I'm in fourth grade and he went to the hospital, went to work and I got home from school that day and he probably came home around 7:00 a few hours later. And the first thing he did was walk back into my bedroom and he opened the door. And when he looked in, he saw that I had already caught that, that X and the Y were switched and I put them back in place, which means that in my brain, every single time I was getting home from school, I was going into my bedroom and I was making sure that everything was perfect because it gave me a sense of control as a fourth grader. And so what ended up happening as the years went by is I would go through my mom's kitchen and I felt like the things were talking to me and telling me that they were not in the right place. So I would go through her silverware drawer and match all of the forks and all of the spoons and get everything to be perfectly aligned and make it make sense. She had this little kind of like bread caddy that was in the corner with a shield that came down. And if that shield was not down, you could see inside the Caddy, and I didn't think it was pretty. So every time I would walk by, I would pull the shield down. And then if I thought there was too much clutter with all of the grapes and the chips and the things she had sitting out for our family of six to eat as we're walking through, I would put them all back in the cabinets and I would put the grapes on a paper towel. I would put them into a glass bowl to make them pretty. And she would always say Gailey, one day when you have your own house, you can move things around. But this is my kitchen. Stop touching things in my kitchen. This is my house, and I was always like, But mom, I can't help it. They're telling me where they need to go. And they're so loud. They are screaming at me, and I just need to quiet it. And so today, what I do for a living now, which is decorate and design and organize people's homes to make it calm. It's because. It it makes me calm to do that. It's very hard for me to describe my design style because my style is whatever the room is telling me to do. I just listen. Right. And I, I do it until I. It isn't so loud anymore. And it's so fascinating that these mental health struggles actually become the motor behind who we are today and how you've harnessed it into something that is grown, who you are in your business and what you're capable of doing. And same with myself. Like, I don't believe I would be in the place. I am in life if I didn't have my anxiety and depression, and if I wasn't able to relate to having those control issues. Everybody is the sum of their experiences, right? That's what makes you you. The level of empathy you have for people is because of something you have probably been through. The level of appreciation for somebody's work ethic is probably because you have or haven't experienced your level of work ethic. So you you are the sum of your experiences and the fact that we have experience things from OCD to depression. In my case, eating disorder and both of us perfectionism it. It leads us to where we are today, and I think that we're both really, really competitive. And I think part of perfectionism is competitiveness because you are competing to be perfect with yourself all day, every day. So if you're always used to competing with yourself, you grow up and you become an adult and you get put into the real world, you're going to be a competitive adult, most likely because that's just in you. So I think that the beauty, the beauty of this is figuring out how can you harness those tendencies and those experiences that already live inside of you into something productive and beneficial and helpful, as opposed to something that literally can destroy your life because it can just as easily go the other way? Yeah, no, I completely agree. It's it's a blessing and a curse. It's a tool, right? It can build or it can destroy. Ironically, with my last name, ha ha ha ha ha. I know it's so cheesy, but yeah, I'm with you on that. I think it's fascinating that it's so the the asylum that raised us, which I know we've said before, but it truly is. And then it's also giving myself grace when I'm noticing that I'm allowing that part of myself to kind of be the captain of the ship and not necessarily the co-pilot and allowing that to take the lead and the competitiveness with myself in the self-critique and the negative thought patterns vs., OK, this is great information. This is a great, you know, motivator, but it also isn't completely my truth. It's just something that I can either use or put down when I need it. But yeah, time goes on and you learn that for the record, I don't think it's the asylum that raised us in this scenario. I think it's the asylum we raised ourselves in because this is all in our own head. We did this, we did this to ourselves and we we can take ownership of that. And I think the biggest takeaway here at the end of the day is that if you experience stress and you know what your telltale signs are that you're experiencing it right. For Kendall, it's becoming hyper focused on your feet and cleaning your feet, right? And for me, it's cleaning my kitchen and and thinking that it will make me feel better if I just clean it one more time. Once you once you can identify what that hotel is, that means you are anxious or stressed. You can then step away and say, OK, I know what's happening here, and I'm going to take my power back and I'm going to take my control over it. And I'm going to do something that relieves anxiety and relieve stress because this ritual doesn't actually do that. This ritual keeps me confined into this horrible cyclical loop of being nervous, doing a ritual, feeling better, being nervous, doing a ritual, feeling better. Instead, I'm in that. I see that that loop is about to start, and instead I'm going to do something that I know makes me feel better. But it's not necessarily this ritual. I am going to go for a run or in my case, I'm going to go decorate somebody's home and I'm going to create with my hands, or I'm going to go lay in the grass or work in the yard. Have you ever like done exposure therapy a little bit and show like, maybe I don't know, crack some black pepper on your counter and left it there while you're in this moment just to prove that you can overcome it. Like, for me, sometimes I'm like, I know my feet are dirty. I'm going to wait like 10 minutes, or I'm going to go walk on my balcony outside in my bare feet just to kind of like, push through that discomfort. Do you ever do that? So the fact that my entire house, except for my kitchen right now, has been under construction since January, and it is covered in dust like compound dust paint. There's brown paper on everything in the last eight months has been exposure therapy for me because I can't clean 90 percent of my house. It's just been a mess for eight months. But that also tells me that I'm healthier because I willingly signed up for that and I'm not freaking out right now, even though 90 percent of my house has been unlivable for almost a year. But I will say, if you were to crack pepper on my countertop and call it exposure therapy, I think I am more competitive than I am OCD. So the competitor in me would be like, OK, I'll prove you wrong. I know. To win, I'll win this game, and I would have no problem leaving that Culpeper there for a year if it means I will win whatever point you're trying to make me go out. Exposure therapy does not work for me. I'm next time I'm at your place, I'm going to crack the green pepper and you'll just see it and laugh. You'll be like this b***h, I. I'll pass them like powdered sugar on your feet. All right. So I think it's time for us to lead into some of our questions that we had from wholeheartedly poured on our Instagram. We love to ask you guys something that we could help you with during the week. And so this week we asked the question of what is something are you struggling with in the workplace? And Ogilvy and I have definitely been there. Some of us more recent than others. So we're here to answer your questions. But no, you can always submit your questions to us at wholeheartedly poured on her Instagram. We want to answer. We want to get to know and help you out. We're going to read a couple and kind of how we respond to them. So the first one I'll read, somebody wrote, and this one, this one moved me. They wrote, having to get up and go during the low depressed. I want to hibernate moments. I felt that so deeply, because as somebody who is kind of constantly oscillating between feeling really, really high and feeling really, really low. There is definitely especially when I had a day job and I just had to get up and go and. Talk with people and sell them things all day, every day, if I was in a low to her point or his point. I really just wanted to hibernate. I wanted to stay in my bed with all the windows closed and just not face the world. But I couldn't do that because I had to go to work because of the benefits that work was giving me. And so what I can say to that is first, first off, what helped me get up and go when I felt that way is I remember that every single time I have ever felt that way before. One hundred percent of the time it eventually goes away, 100 percent of the time something happened and I would laugh like genuinely belly laugh or maybe business, and I would feel I would feel better and there would be a little light back in my day. So the most depressing thing is feeling hopeless. And if you feel like. There's no hope that it's going to get better than it is going to be really hard to get up and keep going and deal with it. But if you base it on facts which are 100 percent of the time, it has always gotten better. Then you're you kind of give yourself that right to get up and go because you trust that it's going to turn around eventually, maybe later that day, maybe in a couple of days, but you just have to get up and keep going. And then the other thing that helps motivate me when I'm feeling really low and I don't want to get up and go to work is, I think, OK, Julie, talk to your 50 or your sixty or your 75 year old self. She is going to wish so badly that she could come back. And even if it was just to do today again, just to get to be here today in your body with the mechanics in the way it moves now with the house that you have now, with the the youth and the energy and the excitement and all of the unknown that you still have ahead of you, like your 75 year old self would give anything to grow back in your body today, even if it's the worst day of your year this year and just get to be new and live it again. So talk to her and she's going to make you feel really happy to be where you are right now in the body that you're in, getting to get up and go to work and do what you do because it's not always going to be like that. No, that's so true. And what's interesting is how you framed that right? You framed talking to your older self and then coming back and understanding the things that you're grateful for, inherently as what you were talking about, right? The fact that you have the energy, the fact that you have the bodily mobility to be able to literally spring out of your couch. I love you, but get off your couch and go, do that, you know what I mean? And that it truly is. I see this all the time and I've said it in classes and I've said it. I see it on my Instagram. It's been one of the biggest things that helps me in these hibernate moments is taking the action to reframe, which can feel really daunting. But it goes to little stuff like gratitude is single handedly. It is magic. It is absolutely magic. It takes a second because the judgmental voice pops in your head because your body wants to stay in the state that it's in. Because there's a level of comfort when you go into this hibernation state where you know what you're going to get. Like, we'd much rather sit in a familial hell than in a possibility of a better unknown, because it's what we know with the devil that we know and we like to sit in it, right? Rather, though, when you start this gratitude journey and you just start little things like, Oh my gosh, I love how cozy my bed is or I love how OK, the pillow. I'm just so sleepy. I'm in and out of sleep, or I love how the light coming in through the window. What it does is it starts. It's no different than an exercise, right? You're training your brain like you're training your muscles to see opportunity, to see positivity, to see what exists around you. Because the way that our brain works too, which is what's so fascinating. Everything is ultimately a choice, and either you're choosing to believe it or not, so you can believe in a hopeful future. And that is because you're standing in a place of hope, you're choosing positivity, or you can believe it's never going to get better than this. And this is what it is. Ultimately, that's also a choice, right? Which is what's so amazing. And there's this book the happiness hypothesis that I think everybody should read. I reread it like once every year when I go through, I've been rereading it through this like transition for me with work. And I read it in college because signs I was depressed and didn't realize it, there was a class that USC called the science of happiness. And it's what started my interest in neurology and just the brain and how it all works and trying to figure out, I think, what in the hell was going on in mine and why it was such a rough place to live in. And it was really cool. He talks about the book opens with a narrative about how our brains are like an elephant with a writer. And so we, the conscious self, is the writer on the back of the elephant. The elephant, as we know it can form. It can completely take down a forest. It could stampede. It could do all these things to destroy. But when the writer is in is in a kind of succinct, succinct relationship with the elephant. It acts as a guide. The elephant can provide protection, support all these other things, but they have to be in relation and congruence with each other. They have to respect each other. And so it was really fascinating to realize, OK, my brain is going to brain, my brain is going to think that's what its job is. His job is to think and to protect me from saber toothed tigers that no longer exist because we've evolved since then. But I can now start to train my brain or work with my brain to understand, OK, my brain is having a tough day. The elephant is irritated by something. What can I do as the writer? I have the conscious mind, so I can say, Oh, the elephant doesn't like being by, you know, this watering hole. So it's my job as the writer who's guiding it to guide our guide ourselves away from that. It's the same thing with a negative thought pattern. If I know my brain wants to go down that pathway, I have to start learning the skills to be able to guide my brain in a different direction. So I think that's what's fascinating about all of that is that ultimately it is a choice. But I love that you went back to that gratitude and I love what you just did there because it's just so much love in this, I guess. No, I love what you did there because what you did is you made it easier for people to feel like they have control over the direction in their energy that they put into their thoughts and their day. Because it's a lot easier to imagine sitting on an elephant, staring it right, using your legs to wake almost like a horse where you like, giddy up. Let's go, hey, slow down. You pull on the reins a little bit. It's actually really helpful to visualize you sitting on there because you feel like you are in control. Whereas if you picture yourself just standing and you're in your brain, it almost feels like impossible to control because your thoughts are just there and they run wild. But you can control like that elephants. I love that. OK, you got the next one? Somebody asked, being kind. How do I be kind and show up as myself around a few people who I know don't like me at work? Well, I have been through that quite a few times in my in my career, and I'll say this No. One. It is anyone's opinion of you, and it's much easier said than done. But that's their opinion. It's not anything you need to consider. I would say this is where building your own self-confidence is so important. Building your like of yourself is so important. We set it this lot in the last podcast. You know your heart. You know how you walk through the world. You know what you're working on where you're not. You know where you're going, where you're not. Maybe as fulfilled or as grown in a certain space. But you know yourself. And if your life happens to, I guess, threaten because that would be the response from somebody else or make someone else feel a certain way, you're not responsible for their reaction. You are responsible for staying true to yourself, which means having that kindness, having that empathy for somebody who might not have the same ability to be as kind as you are. But you also don't have to spend a stitch of time with them if you don't have to. So, Kendall, does that mean you think it's more important for people to respect you than to like you? You can't control people's perception of you. But I have personally played the wanting to be liked game. I've played the people pleasing game I did for a very long time in my life. When my mental health was really poor, I would put on the mask of what I thought people wanted me to be, and it drained me. It took away my life because I was constantly shape shifting from other people's perceptions rather than honoring who I was. And respect means that you hold boundaries for yourself. Respect means that you're able to say no to things and to people because it doesn't sit right with you. And it's scary. I mean, it takes some serious over you to sit in a room and say, Hey, this, this isn't working for me or I feel uncomfortable by this. Respectfully, no, and you're going to be met with people who push back. You know, I've had quite a few of those experiences recently where I set boundaries and, you know, you can't decide if someone's going to respect them or not. I can't control them, but I can control how firmly I hold that boundary and that is in congruence with my own beliefs and values and who I am as a person. And I will tell you, you will never regret holding a boundary that you know as true to yourself. So yes, I would much rather be respected than be liked because if I'm respected, it means people understand that she's self-possessed in her own way. And damn, that's pretty cool. I might not agree with everything, but that's cool that she can walk her walk. I've struggled with. Wanting people to like me. My entire life, I think part of it weighs I could only see myself through how somebody else interpreted me. I couldn't look in the mirror and know who I was or how I felt about myself, which meant that all of the weight on how I determined my worth, my value if I was a good person, if I was a bad person, right? So black and white thinking. Was all entirely dependent on how people reacted to me, because if they liked me, then that meant I was worthy of something and I was good, and if they didn't like me then it was my mission to figure out how to get them to like me because I almost needed to prove to myself that I was worth liking. And I've I've gotten older and I've realized how boring would it be if every restaurant you went to, everybody sitting at your table ordered the exact same thing because we all like the same thing. I think it's great that people have different tastes, right? You might be one person's taste and not somebody else's, and that's OK, because this would be a really boring world if we all just liked the same things because we would all become the exact same person if it was that easy, right? And maybe there'd be a few villains here and there, but at the end of the day, everybody would just be good or bad. Now we have people that like us this month and maybe are a little annoyed with us next month. We have people that are really jealous and hate us this month and then the next month realize that we're on the scene here and we can actually be stronger and better by going together and working towards it, supporting each other. And there's always room for that change. But what you have to leave room for is being OK with other people not having you and adoring you as long as you feel that way about yourself. 100 percent and I have two things to say on that no one and no shade because Lord knows I love Cheesecake Factory cheesecake. But there is a reason The Cheesecake Factory does not have a Michelin star or a James Beard award, and it is because it's got the longest menu in the book and you can go there and everybody can find something that they like the best restaurants in the world, the best chefs in the world, the best artist in the world, the best, you know, directors and writers and all that. They create an emotional response in the world. It is your job to show up so much as yourself that people aren't sure what they think about you at first. Or maybe they hate you, or maybe they love you, but they have a strong reaction. And that's the beauty of living in a world with seven billion people with so many different cultures and perspectives and belief systems is that we get to be confronted every single day. And I will say we get to be because something that frustrates me with the world right now is everybody's so focused on this divisiveness, and you have to think the way that I think or you're a bad person or it's in a binary. I think that's so counter human. That's actually not what we're here to do. We're here to be confronted everyday. We're here to be exposed every day to more and more things so that we can determine where do we fall on this? What am I contributing to this? And how do we walk through this world all together? And art in soup is supposed to make you feel strong emotions? I would rather walk through the world and have a ton of people hate me and a ton of people love me. Then everybody be absolutely ambivalent towards me because if I'm so neutral, if I'm everyone's favorite flavor, I am not contributing anything to the world that is going to progress it forward. So I will gladly be the villain. I will gladly be the superhero, but I will gladly know that I am neither. I am simply trying to be my damn self. That's a great take away, guys, which is that if somebody has strong feelings for you, you're doing something. You're not doing nothing right for somebody to have a really strong feeling towards you hate or love. There's something, there's something there worth putting energy into, which is you. And so try to remember that if you feel like you're you're, you're doing your best and somebody still hates you. It's better than them. Not even caring. You know your name, right? All I can say is the person who wrote The Cheesecake Factory menu was definitely a people pleaser, and I'm trying to make everybody happy and the person you know, the chef who writes the menu of the three Michelin starred restaurant and there's like literally four options and no substitutions, no changes allowed. And they spelled that out very clearly in three languages on the on the one page menu with four options. That person has set boundaries and they know they are good at what they do and boundaries have been set. What is and isn't that interesting? The line goes around the block like trying to get a reservation at like way back in the 90s, like at French Laundry or like one Madison Park in New York, or some of these incredible restaurants. It can take a year. Why? Because people are going to try their food. I prefer to either cook at home or go to a really cool restaurant where I'm going to be confronted with things that I haven't experienced before. It just, I think, at a fuller way to live life, living life, pleasing other people might seem like the path of least resistance, but the opportunity cost is way too high. So on who you are and set your boundaries. And if people don't like that, at least they have a feeling towards you. Yeah, exactly. At least you're striking up an opinion, baby, because in today's world, you're going to hear it. From everybody, anyway, whether it's an Instagram bot or a person hidden in someone's basement like me right now. That's why there's TV shows around like villains like just villainous characters from other shows now are all together in their own show because people have a strong feeling towards them. You know, I have an idea. I have an idea for the episode named Oh, what is it? OK, when you were saying that about villains and all that, I think we should name the episode anti-hero Taylor Swift. Aha. Because I really do believe we're at such power and being the anti-hero she was. Simone Biles was for a long time and watching their redemption coming out of a darker chapter, having so many people say so many negative things about them and look what they're done. Case in point also, Linamar, who is the rugby player who's had so many people comment on her body and she's like, No, I'm beautiful. I wear lipstick. I'm a bada*s. She's a great TikToker. She's fantastic, and I think that's it. It's like I'd rather be the anti-hero than the palatable little princess in everyone else's narrative. And also, I think we're a little bit of the anti-hero to ourselves, and we talk negatively to ourselves, right? So you can you can still be the hero. You can turn it around because you're the one writing that elephant. OK? Next. Next one. This one moved me because this is me too. It's he taking care of myself while at work. Example is eating drinking fluids, using the washroom. So basically, what she's saying is that her biggest challenge at work is literally taking care of her physical bodily needs. And I how do I say this? My girl math is trying to figure out how little water I can drink in a day so that I never have to go pee, but I don't die. I mean, it's it's awful. I just I work these on these any stores. We will go 24 hours without stopping and go right into the next day, and I will a day will go by and I'll realize I never went to the bathroom because I was so myopic on creating. And I almost go manic in these homes and everybody's coming up and asking me, What should I do next? Can you check this room? How does that paint work? Who needs to run a Home Depot? And we're going back and forth all day. I don't really I don't really allow my body to function the way it should because I kind of put it on hold and I make the project and my team my priority. And so reading this, I realize that this is something that I really, really am working on getting better at because it's true when you're at work, sometimes you just get in work mode and you don't take care of yourself and your needs the way you would if you're at home or relaxed on a Sunday. And I think it's it's just as important. Would you connect? And this is my question, would you connect that tendency to want to perform for everybody else and put your needs at like second nature kind of in that people pleasing tendency that it's like in the work mode because I've definitely done this to where it's like, No, I have to be on or like when I was at Peloton, I teach class and then we'd have a meet and greet line. And I'm very proud of that, and I love spending time with people. But sometimes it would take an hour, hour, 20 minutes and I could feel my battery just as as a person, just draining. And then I'd go home and I'd sleep for three hours because it was just so much expenditure. And I wonder if that comes back to that like performance, connected people pleasing energy, but it is from the right place. But then the boundaries are really important. I wish I could say it was because I'm trying to please my team and please the client because I underlying absolutely I am. But I think the driver here is my competitiveness because I got a stop clock ride. This is kind of a I've always been really competitive to an unhealthy extent my whole life. And I think what happens is I set these really aggressive time limits, right, like 72 hours for us to renovate a whole home. And part of it is, I like you, kind of I like the chaos and the adrenaline and the thrill. But it also puts my body into fight or flight mode because I am running on extreme levels of cortisol and adrenaline. I'm calling all nighters. I'm on my feet. I'm on ladders. I'm painting over my head for hours or nailing wood or whatever. And my whole teammates like, they're all. We're all exhausted, but we're all, we're all competitive and we're all working towards this goal. And there's something really unifying about that communal energy of like all trying to accomplish something together, and everyone's got their autonomous roles that they're doing, and they're very proud of it and meticulous. But it takes extreme focus and that's hard to do when you're tired. And so it's almost like your body kind of shuts down on the other things it needs. Like, I actually don't get tired because I'm not allowing myself to feel the need for sleep. I don't need to go to the bathroom because my body's kind of shut down the sensation of needing to go to the bathroom like a shutdown. The the feeling of hunger, like everything, shuts down. And I just go into this zone and I've realized, you know, especially after season one of the show that was really unhealthy for myself and my team, a lot of us faced like. Collateral damages from it, as far as just like going from an extreme high to an extreme low once the season was done, it's hard to get your sleep pattern back after install. Your body is aching and hurting. You can't really work out for a week because you're just in recovery mode. I would go plantar fasciitis on the bottom of my feet and four pieces after every install, and I could barely walk for a week. I mean, it was awful. And so when I read this comment that somebody put in our Instagram, I was like, Oh, that is so me. And it's something that I'm proud to say. We're really working hard to change and bringing healthy snacks to in. This last one, I said I was going to shut it down. It meant yoga every night. And guess why some will you? It's huge. I know there's something about speaking this into a microphone and to you and to our listeners. That gives me a sense of accountability where I feel like when I say what I'm working on all week long, I'm thinking, I said it. I put it into the universe, so I need to do it. So that's that's a nice takeaway, right? Is that if you feel like you want to change something, speak it out loud, say it into the universe, write it into your journal in the morning when you wake up or put it in your notes app on your phone. But I put it out there and bring it into existence and breathe life into it because it helps hold you more accountable. 100 percent. And I think that's what's funny when you say that one, I'm so proud of you because we had have that conversation. You're like, Nope, it's going to change. We're going to do the 930 close of the great. The sleep is going to be awesome knowing that you did it. But also like, what did you do? You set a boundary? For not only yourself, but also for the sanctity of your team and for what's going to benefit everybody. So it was a great decision on that front. You took on more help. I know you had more interns, more support to be able to do this, which is epic. I can't wait to see everything they've done, but also by doing that, it is. It's that level of accountability. And because now your team, you set the standard, you held the accountability as the boss of your team saying, we're done at 9:30. You know, it'd be very easy. I'm sure at nine 20, you're like, Oh, but this one thing, but no cutting off and holding that line. You also have people that are holding you accountable so that they can have that moment of relief to and it's true speaking it into existence. Being able to share what you're going through publicly and say this is actually what I'm striving for is so important. I know it's helped my mental health a lot, particularly when I was like going through everything when I was working at Peloton and I was talking about my mental health. It made it so much easier for me to continue to focus on myself because people knew I was working on things people knew, like even in, you know, the when I did that sober curious segment from November of last year, up until like springtime of this year, it was incredible to have that many people asking, What are you doing? How's it going? So when I would go to a restaurant, I'd look at the menu and I really wanted to have a glass of wine. I was just like, Wait, do I really need this glass of wine right now? I have thousands of people who know that I'm trying to do this, and I don't want to let them down. And it is a great hack being able to have those accountability partners and, you know, be bold about it, be public about it, give yourself grace. If it's, you know, if you can always hold that standard, but it does help you make change into it. All right, you've got the last one. Let's see. We have oh gosh, this one. This one hit. Somebody put in the question box. They were needed support and accepting that they can't do everything themselves. And one of my greatest life challenges is admitting that I need help. Asking for help. And I think the biggest thing I've learned, and I'm still learning to be honest because I struggle with this too, is being able to say I'm not good here or I don't know what to do here. Or, you know, can you please pop into this meeting and help or I don't know, heads or tails of this. I had gotten into past business relationships with people who I guess I thought they were more trustworthy than what they were because I felt like I was kind of controlling what that relationship was. And I didn't do my due diligence, and I've had to learn from those past relationships that it was my not asking for help from somebody who was more experienced that would have prevented me from being in a not so great business situation. One of my favorite things I'm learning how to do in meetings I say, I don't know what I'm doing here. This is what I know I want to create. This is what I know how to do this, what I can bring to the table. Who else do we need to fill in the blanks? And I think having a great team of people around you, but also like having a great family, having great friends that you can admit. That you you can't do at all is so important and being able to own that is key. I like the phrase if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. Bringing in people to support you and help you in is a blessing because it means you have resources around you that either you can pay and hired help or who are your friends and like you and just want to help. But the people who are successful are the people who have successfully figured out where to. Bring in different resources and how to utilize them. At the end of the day, it's really, really, really important to remember this every time somebody has asked you for help with something that they can't do. Have you not felt good about yourself like you have when somebody asked for your help with something? There's a sense of, Oh, I needed, Oh, I have a purpose. Oh, there's something I can bring to the table. That's additive. So on the flip side, that means every time you ask somebody else for help, you're not just asking them for help, but you're also making them feel valued. You're making them feel good like they can be additive to you. You're not making them feel like you are incapable because they're more focused on the fact that it makes them feel good. Right? So, so if you're insecure or worried about asking people for help, just remember how great it feels when somebody asks you for something that you're the best. At that perspective, shift is key because I think what prevented me from doing that for a long time was that I was so focused on not wanting to be a burden to somebody else by asking for help. I didn't want to be difficult. I didn't want to be too much because I had heard some of that negative feedback from some not so great people in my life when I was very young because I had a lot of energy and a lot of passion, and I still do. And I think that kind of. Quieted and contained my voice and my presence a bit because I was like, Oh, I don't want to be, I don't want to come off this way, I don't want to be too much. I've heard too much all the time, but it's so true when someone asks for help and you're on the receiving end of that, someone asked me for help. I will drop. I'll be like, Yeah, OK, let me get this. I got this. What do you need? Oh, I know this person who can I connect you with like I am the queen of Oh, I know five people go. And I think that's what makes me so excited because I love to help and I love to support, and I love to be like cheerleader mama bear in those situations. I think so many of us do, especially when we've worked so hard and had people help us out to get us to where we are today. And it's such a beautiful it's not even transactional in that way when you're coming from a positive place, if you really want to. You're so right. If you really want to go far in your career, find really smart people, people you look up to ask them for their opinions, ask them for their insight, ask them for help. It is amazing how much you'll learn, but also how much you realize, Oh, that mogul that you saw that's, you know, built seven companies and sold three of them. And is this incredible person? Their journey is filled with these magical miracle people who offered to help them at their lowest and then they go back and pay it forward. There's this really cool story of a friend of mine. His name's Jesse Eisler, serial entrepreneur. His wife is also super bada*s. She founded Spanx. They're like the coolest. They're the coolest couple because they're both so self-possessed in their careers. They met later in life. They have awesome kids. They're just lovely people. So one at this kid that worked for him, quote unquote kid, was boxing like a young boxer. But his dream was to be a rapper. And he was like, Look, Jesse, can I interview you? I want to learn something from you or whatnot. So he was like, Yeah, sure, not a problem. Fast forward this kid who interned for Jessie, lo and behold, it turns out, was 50 cent 50s 55 becomes the mega rapper. Obviously, we know we love him. We can all sing all the song. He was on a private jet, so one of Jesse's companies that he had was Marky Jet. And I guess 50 Cent was on the plane was taking one of the jets from this. I guess it was like kind of like a fractional or a private aviation company that Jesse owned. And so Jesse found out from the from the pilot, and he wrote he had the pilot passed 50 a note and says, Hey, remember this is Jesse. Did it a day? You enter it for me. So great to have you on here. Something like that. How cool is this? 50 Cent then wrote into every single contract he had that he would only fly marquee jets, Jesse's company from there on out because they had the loyalty and Jesse helped him. And now he pay it forward later on in his career is like, Nope, I'm going to support Jesse and his business venture. And I think that's what's so beautiful. That's what asking for help. That's what happens. You build relationships. You build true human compassion because you're willing to put your ego aside, which is the most important part to say, I can't do it all, but you're so right. If you do it with other people, you'll go so much further and you have no idea what that's going to turn into in the future. I love a full circle moment, and earlier when you said that, they said you were too much, I say, then go find less. Yet when somebody tells you you are too much, just be like, Go find less, then because I am enough. And if it's too much for you, you need less. That's it. Yeah, it's like everybody has a different flavor profile. If I got too much space, that's fine. Go for miles. Like, I'm sitting over here, like with all the helping out and you say, go to Cheesecake Factory because they got hella options for you. If I'm not your flavor, let me let me clarify I feel bad throwing them under the bus. No, no. And then whoever wrote it wants to please everybody, so everybody will be happy. Yes, true. True. But how weird is this? Cheesecake Factory follows me on Instagram, and I would do these lives out there. I would teach, but I forgot to mention that I. We know we don't know, we don't know, we know because I'm going to say that I look. Don't get me wrong, I love to take the banana cream cheesecake is my ish. I will order it. I will suffer the lactose consequences of it because I will enjoy it. It's like a once a once a quarter type of an experience, right? But they would always pop into my Instagram lives, and we're like commenting back they were a riot for really fun. I don't know who runs her social, but clearly, I don't know. I guess maybe they would take my classes or whatever go figure. The one thing that I was so saddened by was like they sent me like a gift box once, which was very nice, but it was like a coupon for iced tea because they know how much I love my iced tea, all that stuff. All I really wanted. But I was just like, Please just send me a cheesecake. You've just sent me. And I just it was never a cheesecake. And I think maybe I'm a little better, but there are too many options. They couldn't have gotten it right. There were too many options. Yeah, because they prepared all the toys. We try to please everybody. You're going to please nobody because there's just too much. You're too much. Too much. OK, so we are wrapping this up now. What are you working on this week? I will start and say that I'm pulling a Robert Frost, meaning I am trying really hard to take the road less traveled. What I mean by that is I keep it keep being taught the same lesson, and it's time that I learned it, which is that if you do the same thing over and over, you have to expect the same results. And what I have started to do is is going to sound wild is as of two days ago, I just try to do things that I habitually do a little differently. I think part of it is trying to break some of my OCD tendencies because when I get really stressed out and my anxiety is high, my cortisol is flying. I, I obsessively clean and I do the same things over and over and over because it kind of makes me feel better, but it's not really healthy and it's certainly not productive. And so what I'm trying to do is retrain my brain to just do the things that I do every single day differently. For example, this morning I brushed my teeth with my left hand. I'm a very coordinated person, but there was no coordination there. And I realized my entire life I had never brush my teeth with my left hand. Yeah, right. And and then and then on my running route this morning, right, I ran eight miles and I have different distances that I do. And I know when I'm doing my eight mile day, I run this exact route because I know how long it is. And I always run it in the same loop and I thought, You know what? I brush my teeth with my left hand. I'm going to run this loop in reverse. And I ran the opposite direction to start the run. When I always go the same, the same route and I just I'm now. I'm not doing anything crazy, like I'm not doing conditioner before shampoo, but I'm trying to do things with my left hand and and use a different side of my brain, a different experience on my run. It's not crazy, but just small things to challenge myself. And what's crazy is it gets me a little bit out of my head because now I am more present and conscious that I'm brushing my teeth because I'm genuinely trying to figure out how to get my back molar at this angle with my left hand because I have never done make moves before. And like, how do you do a circle rotation with your left hand? Is it more right or is it backwards? Like, I don't know, but it forces me to be present in what I'm doing, and it really makes me almost experience life just a little bit different. And I think that that will result in a different result than if I do the exact same thing every day. So I'm challenging myself to do things just a little differently and see if I feel any different. You're going to love what mine is because it's ironically very the outcome will be similar to yours, but it's the complete opposite. So I was up in New York at my place, getting it fixed up. Then I'm back down at Shadow Man's house. I have to fly. I've been all over the country. I don't have a routine, particularly since leaving my job at Peloton. I had a set routine where I would know when I was going and to work, and then when I was coming home and when I would go to the grocery. My entire world is just, it's like someone through. It's like a Jackson Pollock painting. Someone just threw a bunch of paint on a wall and said, Go, which I do love that. And Jackson Pollock is one of my favorite artists, but I actually think I need ironically structure. So my goal of the week is to find consistent ways just to have a Saturday morning routine, to have a set time of day where I'm focused on fitness and content creation and body movement without having to take a bunch of calls or shift and jive into something else. There's so many things I'm building and working on that can result in literally like 12 meetings a day that I really need to set a routine and set some boundaries so that I can have that peace of mind. My sleep has been really all over the place the last two weeks because I think different bed, different places, my mind going a million miles a minute with all these ideas and whatnot. So getting on to a set routine is going to be important for me. So it's ironic is I actually need to take a note from the Galey book, and I feel like you're taking, you know, for my crazy spastic all over the place book and finding that difference because I could definitely use more structure in my life. So I think. My goal is to have I time block my days, so I'm really excited about that. I'm really going to commit to the time walking because I have the planner. I picked it up in New York. I finally have it with me. I have the planner, I have the planner. So we're going to start time walking. I'm getting cute little highlighters for it today because I'm a very visual, color coded person and that helps my my brain a lot. And I'm going to have that morning routine that mid-afternoon focused movement, relaxation, meditation and then my nighttime routine. And my goal is to have a set nighttime bedtime moment so I can get consistent sleep and get my circadian rhythm back. So you're trying to structure your day and I'm trying to you unstructured structure, my hyper structured day where I think, you know, this is why we're giving it away. This is why we work. Did you notice every single one of our episodes so far we have matched, so we're both wearing white tops today and a light hat. The last one, we were both wearing camo and then rain. Shadow Man walked me through. He also was wearing camo and going time. Before that, I think we both had brown, and it's just very weird how different our paths are, right? Like, I'm hyper organized right there, chaotic, but like the same angle, and we have the same colors that we keep wearing the same time without talking about it. So we're seeing it's just wild to me. I think that's a beautiful too, and that's why it's so great. Like real friendships like that, because you don't want to be surrounded by people that are just like you. You want people that pull out that those other experiences, you want to be exposed to different things, different energies. But what I love is our journey from when we met years ago in the rumble glass to where we are now. It has had this strange, invisible string of parallel at similar times, similar situations, different cast of characters, different cast of different plotlines, but the same big arc and structure. So it just it's beautiful. It's pretty wild. I feel like if you know, if there's multiple layers to the universe, we're definitely like in parallel ones. It's great we are. And now we just need to get our men to parallel, sit down and pee and we're golden going Golden Gate, the choice of words. You know, I just thought it was often called this Olympic tag and, you know, an anti-hero. All that. Yeah, but guys, we appreciate you so much joining us today. We were a little off the beaten path here today, so thanks for hanging with us till the end. And as we are starting this out, we are catching our stride as we're going. Read every single comment. If you can put a comment on Apple, if you can hit that like on Spotify or wherever you are getting your podcast, that helps us so, so much and allows us to keep doing this. So I implore you to do that, and I thank you so much with their whole hearts. Thank you guys so much for joining. We will see you on social media. And then, of course, every Wednesday you have your new episode of whole heartedly. We love you. Good luck getting all the men to be sitting down. And here we are off into the week. Bye bye.

Past Episodes

Ready to kick off 2025 with a financial glow-up? This week, Galey chats with the fabulous Kari Larocco?wealth advisor, Forbes favorite, and Ironman finisher?about making money moves that matter. Kari shares how small changes can have a big impact, like building a strong credit score by skipping those tempting store cards, choosing the right retirement plans to secure your future, and staying one step ahead of financial scams. She inspires listeners with practical tips to teach kids about money and empowers women to take control of their financial independence. Packed with easy tips and plenty of laughs, this episode will leave you feeling ready to handle the new year with confidence!

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Progressive Insurance - Get a Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Mint Mobile - New customers get a 3-month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month at MINTMOBILE.com/wholeheartedly Silver Linings Handbook - The Silver Linings Handbook is a weekly podcast where host Jayson Blair interviews interesting people from all walks of life. Listen to where you find your podcasts. Zocdoc - go to Zocdoc.com/HEART to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today

Follow Us:

  • @wholeheartedlypod on Instagram (WIG) for updates and show clips.
  • Kendall: @kendalltoole
  • Galey: @galeyalix


Learn more and connect with Kari at karilarocco.com for personalized financial guidance!

Topics We Cover:

  • Why skipping store credit cards can protect your credit score
  • Building credit and maintaining strong payment history
  • Tips for teaching kids about money
  • How to safeguard yourself from financial scams
  • Saving for retirement and choosing the right accounts
  • Empowering women to take financial control

This episode is packed with easy-to-understand tips and fresh perspectives to help you make 2025 your most financially savvy year yet!


01:09:13 12/18/2024

Galey is joined by her dear friend, legendary supermodel, and wellness visionary Elle Macpherson. Elle shares the inspiration behind her transformative company, WelleCo, born in 2014 as a natural evolution of her commitment to health and well-being, and how she positioned it as beauty for the inside of the body. She opens up about her cancer experience, the power of meditation in reconnecting with her authentic self, and the importance of prioritizing self-care. Elle?s uplifting insights encourage Galey?and listeners?to embrace the qualities that lead to success and live authentically.

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Progressive Insurance - Get a Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Dagsmejan - Visit dagsmejan.com for an exclusive 15% off your first purchase. Use code Wholeheart at checkout. Silver Linings Handbook - The Silver Linings Handbook is a weekly podcast where host Jayson Blair interviews interesting people from all walks of life. Listen to where you find your podcasts. Pretty Litter - Go to PrettyLitter.com/wholeheartedly to save twenty percent on your FIRST order and get a free cat toy. Land Rover - Build your Range Rover Evoque at LandRoverUSA.com .

Follow Us:

  • @wholeheartedlypod on Instagram (WIG) for updates and show clips.
  • Kendall: @kendalltoole
  • Galey: @galeyalix


Discover WelleCo by Elle Macpherson:
Explore WelleCo?s range of plant-based wellness products designed to nourish your body and mind. Visit their website at WelleCo.com.

Elle?s Guided Meditation Recommendation:
Find peace and clarity with Paul Darrol Walsh?s transformative meditations. Check them out at PaulDarrolWalsh.com.

01:19:10 12/11/2024

This week on Wholeheartedly, Kendall and Galey dive into the highs and tender moments of Thanksgiving. Galey shares her lively holiday, complete with Bair jumping barricades and a phone taking a swim in the toilet. But amid the humor, she opens up about the bittersweet side of the season?how even eventful gatherings can carry sadness for her and many others.

Meanwhile, Kendall spent her eventful first Thanksgiving with Alex?s family, where she shoveled snow, cooked meals, and uncovered a touching family connection. Together, Kendall and Galey reflect on navigating grief & loneliness, and share ways to cope with the emotional struggles that come with this time of year. Plus, they head to the WIG @wholeheartedlypod to discuss food struggles, holiday nostalgia, and reframing the season with authenticity and love, helping you make space for both joy and healing.

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Progressive Insurance - Get a Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Mint Mobile - New customers get a 3-month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month at MINTMOBILE.com/wholeheartedly Dagsmejan - Visit dagsmejan.com for an exclusive 20% off your first purchase. To get 15% off your next gift, go to UNCOMMONGOODS.com. Silver Linings Handbook - The Silver Linings Handbook is a weekly podcast where host Jayson Blair interviews interesting people from all walks of life. Listen to where you find your podcasts.

Follow Us:

  • @wholeheartedlypod on Instagram (WIG) for updates and show clips.
  • Kendall: @kendalltoole
  • Galey: @galeyalix
01:19:50 12/4/2024

This week on Wholeheartedly, Kendall and Galey tackle life?s challenges with humor and heart. Galey shares a wild ER story after stepping on an electrical plug?a sign to ?unplug and slow down??and hilariously recounts a Hinge date with a ribcage-obsessed doctor. The duo dives into millennial nostalgia, Gen Z slang, and a heartfelt discussion about transitioning from corporate life to entrepreneurship. Answering a WIG (@wholeheartedlypod) question, they share inspiring advice for chasing your dreams, with Kendall opening up about the emotional challenges of building something new. Plus, tips for winter motivation, Kendall?s NKO Club, and more! 

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Progressive Insurance - Get a Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Cook Unity - Go to cookunity.com/WHOLEHEART or enter code WHOLEHEART before checkout for 50% off your first week. Mint Mobile - New customers get a 3-month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month at MINTMOBILE.com/wholeheartedly Zocdoc - go to Zocdoc.com/HEART to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today

Follow Us:

  • @wholeheartedlypod on Instagram (WIG) for updates and show clips.
  • Kendall: @kendalltoole
  • Galey: @galeyalix
01:11:41 11/27/2024

This week?s Wholeheartedly packs a punch?literally! Kendall, fresh off her trip to the Tyson/Paul fight, shares the incredible women?s boxing match that stole the night and her own sparring experience with a champion boxer. She talks about the moment she got hit in the face for the first time and how bouncing back?whether in life or the ring?builds unshakable confidence.

Meanwhile, Galey reveals her newly finished home but admits she?s still sleeping on the couch, working through her feelings and adjusting to her new space. Kendall encourages her to embrace the home and create joyful new memories.They discuss finding purpose by noticing where time flies and why it?s tied to acts of service.

From aliens in the ocean to Bair?s puppy chaos, Galey?s missed connection update (pilot or flight attendant?), and your comments from the WIG @wholeheartedlypod, this episode is packed with humor, heart, and inspiration.

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Progressive Insurance - Get a Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Dagsmejan - Visit dagsmejan.com for an exclusive 20% off your first purchase. To get 15% off your next gift, go to UNCOMMONGOODS.com. Cook Unity - Go to cookunity.com/WHOLEHEART or enter code WHOLEHEART before checkout for 50% off your first week.
 

01:15:05 11/20/2024

This week?s Wholeheartedly packs a punch?literally! Kendall, fresh off her trip to the Tyson/Paul fight, shares the incredible women?s boxing match that stole the night and her own sparring experience with a champion boxer. She talks about the moment she got hit in the face for the first time and how bouncing back?whether in life or the ring?builds unshakable confidence.

Meanwhile, Galey reveals her newly finished home but admits she?s still sleeping on the couch, working through her feelings and adjusting to her new space. Kendall encourages her to embrace the home and create joyful new memories.They discuss finding purpose by noticing where time flies and why it?s tied to acts of service.

From aliens in the ocean to Bair?s puppy chaos, Galey?s missed connection update (pilot or flight attendant?), and your comments from the WIG @wholeheartedlypod, this episode is packed with humor, heart, and inspiration.

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Progressive Insurance - Get a Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Dagsmejan - Visit dagsmejan.com for an exclusive 20% off your first purchase. To get 15% off your next gift, go to UNCOMMONGOODS.com. Cook Unity - Go to cookunity.com/WHOLEHEART or enter code WHOLEHEART before checkout for 50% off your first week.
 

01:15:05 11/20/2024

This week on Wholeheartedly, Kendall and Galey explore trauma responses and personal growth. Galey celebrates her new rug line launch while navigating the joys of being single. Kendall shares her peaceful Joshua Tree getaway, complete with family breathwork and reconnecting with nature. They laugh about fears?Galey?s mom hates roaches and Kendall?s fear of mice?and introduce Galey?s adorable new family member, Bair, who?s all about flight! They share their own trauma responses, candidly discussing how fawning can lead to people-pleasing and offer tools to help break these patterns and more. Plus we're reading your comments straight from the WIG @wholeheartedlypod

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Progressive Insurance - Get a Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Dagsmejan - Visit dagsmejan.com for an exclusive 20% off your first purchase. Use Code Heart at checkout. Mint Mobile - 3-month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to MINTMOBILE.com/wholeheartedly SLH - Want conversations that inspire? Listen to the Silver Linings Handbook podcast.

01:05:52 11/13/2024

Kendall and Galey are helping you to protect yourself?mind, body, and soul. From sharing practical tips to staying safe out in the world to candid stories of close calls, they?re here to help YOU feel stronger and safer. They talk about some scary experiences, like Kendall?s decision to skip rest stops and Galey?s frightening near-miss with trafficking at the Ft. Lauderdale airport. Plus, hear all about Galey?s spicy run-in with food poisoning, a dreamy missed connection with a pilot, and Kendall?s ?delusional Realtor? drama. And don?t miss their big news: Galey?s new rug line launch and Kendall?s sold-out Trucker hats are flying off the shelves! Plus they?re taking your questions from the WIG@wholeheartedlypod.

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Uncommon Goods= To get 15% off your next gift, go to UNCOMMONGOODS.com/HEART.

Progressive Insurance = Get a Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive.

Nutrafol = Get $10 off your first month?s subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and use promo code WHOLEHEARTEDLY

Pretty Litter = Go to PrettyLitter.com/wholeheartedly to save 20% on your FIRST order and get a free cat toy.

Air Doctor = Head to airdoctorpro.com  and use promo code WHOLEHEART and you?ll receive UP TO $300 off air purifiers!

Follow Us:

  • @wholeheartedlypod on Instagram for updates and show clips.
  • Kendall: @kendalltoole
  • Galey: @galeyalix
01:29:55 11/6/2024

Think you can spot a narcissist? Even tougher?know how to handle one? Kendall and Galey are here with all the tips! From Kendall?s realtor with major narcissistic issues to cheating exes who thought they were gifts to the world, they?re unpacking it all. In this episode, they dive into identifying narcissistic traits, like golden children with moms who keep them in a toxic grip. Plus, they reveal why narcissists target high-achieving women and perform fake acts of service just to look good. With personal stories galore, Kendall and Galey share all the red flags.

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Land Rover = Explore the Range Rover Evoque at LandRoverUSA.com .

Betterhelp = Wholeheartedly is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/WHOLE and get on your way to being your best self. 

ZocDoc= Go to Zocdoc.com/Heart . Find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.

Uncommon Goods= To get 15% off your next gift, go to UNCOMMONGOODS.com/HEART

Follow Us:

  • @wholeheartedlypod on Instagram for updates and show clips.
  • Kendall: @kendalltoole
  • Galey: @galeyalix
01:11:18 10/30/2024

Feeling the holiday stress creeping in? With the busy season approaching, Kendall and Galey are here to help you prioritize self-care and stay sane! From folding laundry while listening to a podcast to Kendall?s surprising sexy hair tie secret, they share tips for finding joy in everyday moments. They also talk about growth?Galey opens up about moving away from hats since Charlye?s passing, and Kendall embraces her natural beauty with confidence. Whether it?s taking an everything shower, cozying up with a book, or binge-watching a series, we?ve got all the self-care you need! Let us calm the chaos together!

Thanks to our partners for their support!

Progressive Insurance = Get a Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive.

Land Rover = Explore the Range Rover Evoque at LandRoverUSA.com .

Betterhelp = Wholeheartedly is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/WHOLE and get on your way to being your best self. 

Mint Mobile = Get your 3-month premium wireless plan for 15 a month, go to MINTMOBILE.com/wholeheartedly .

AquaTru = Receive 20% OFF any AquaTru purifier! At AquaTru.com use code ?WHOLEHEART? at checkout

Follow Us:

  • @wholeheartedlypod on Instagram for updates and show clips.
  • Kendall: @kendalltoole
  • Galey: @galeyalix

01:27:13 10/23/2024

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